RE:1700+ o/ced

kohkohnut · Feb 26, 2003

i started o/cing my 1700+(Palomino) few days ago using FSB(couldn't find the conductive silver lacquer to unlock multipliers.anybody has any idea?)currently i m running 155FSB*11 with Vcore 1.85v(max) n Vddr 2.85v(max).i only used performance test 4.0 to stress my computer as its the only benchmark dat i have.anymore increase in my FSB would result in WinXP not starting or system hang while benchmarking with performance test 4.0.1)r there any utilities dat i can use to find out wats stopping my com frm being o/ced further?i thought i was safe when my com survived the benchmark @ 155FSB but when i played Fifa2003 it would hang on me halfway through a match.2)i m reluctant to decrease my FSB so i would like to know is it my RAM or Radeon or processor dat is causing me this problem? 3)i have no problems increasing Vcore/Vddr but where is the option for increasing Vagp in BIOS?4)n wats I/O voltage?

F.I.Y:
other than changing FSB,increasing Vcore n Vddr,i have changed the following in BIOS as well.
AGP Aperture frm 64mb to 128mb
AGP mode frm 2x to 4x
Cas Latency frm 2.5 to 2
Bank Interleave to “4 Bank”
i left everything else in my BIOS alone.
To wat extent would the abovementioned changes affect my o/cing via FSB?would restoring the defaults allow me to increase my FSB even further?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

phsstpok · Feb 26, 2003

You are nearing limits on a lot of things.

You've got 133 Mhz memory (PC2100) at 155 mhz plus you are trying to run it with aggressive timing (CAS 2). This makes the memory work even harder. As a test see if it overclocks better at CAS 2.5 and CAS 3. The test won't help performance but it will tell you if the rest of your system can go higher.

How are your temps? What are you using for CPU cooling? HSF? water cooling?

You've got a KT266A. Lots of people ran into northbridge cooling problems. Do you have active or passive cooling on yours? Check the thermal grease under the northbridge heatsink. Some come with just a small dot of grease and the heatsink and chip make poor contact. Lap the heatsink if necessary and replace the thermal grease. If you don't have active cooling you might want to add it

Your Palomino XP1700+ is already at 1705 Mhz. That's a pretty good overclock for Palomino. According to the CPU database at <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com" target="_new">www.overclockers.com</A> the average overclock for Palomino XP1700+ is 1713 mhz. You are just about there.

Your AGP is probably OK. Crashman has had Radeons at ridiculous AGP bus speeds on his BX board.

With 155 mhz FSB your PCI would be running about 38 Mhz. Don't know if that's a problem or not. I've heard that WD hard drives don't like too much PCI overclocking but I don't know what is a reasonable amount.

Remove unneeded PCI cards for testing.

That's about all I can think of.

99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability

lhgpoobaa · Feb 27, 2003

Yeah... you really have to work out how to unlock that CPU to get further.
155FSB is probably maxxing out your ram AND your PCI devices, so its no suprise it keeps falling over playing games.

for unlocking you an also use a window defogger kit, silver paint or a silver pen (applied with a toothpick)

"Revenues were less than robust" - QWEST
"The company applied its accounting policies incorrectly" - WORLDCOM
"Certian financial adjustments may be required" - AOL+TW.Edited by LHGPooBaa on 02/26/03 06:42 PM.

kohkohnut · Feb 27, 2003

i m currently using an unknown HSF dats running at 7000RPM with an aluminium heatsink.i m planning to buy a Volcano 9 soon.wat r active cooling n passive cooling?n how do i increase voltage AGP?(i have searched high n low in BIOS n nvr found it)

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

kohkohnut · Feb 27, 2003

i thought i had to use conductive silver lacquer to unlock it?wat kind of shops can i find the items u stated?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

phsstpok · Feb 27, 2003

i m currently using an unknown HSF dats running at 7000RPM with an aluminium heatsink.i m planning to buy a Volcano 9 soon.wat r active cooling n passive cooling?n how do i increase voltage AGP?(i have searched high n low in BIOS n nvr found it)

Passive cooling means a heatsink without a fan. Active cooling means with a fan. Some motherboards don't have a fan on the northbridge heatsink. Having a fan should, in theory, allow you to push FSB speeds a little higher than without it but as you know, memory, voltages, air circulation, etc also have a part.

In general, just like your CPU, sometimes you need give the northbridge some help. You can add a bigger and stronger heatsink and fan and you boost the I/O voltage. Depends on how serious you are about overclocking. Unfortunately, it's a little hard to tell if a northbridge needs this kind of help.

As for video card voltages, there are usually 3 voltages that are talked about relating to overclocking. The first two are GPU and memory voltages. Just like with a CPU and memory of the main system, increasing voltages help with stability. In this case, it helps with overclocking the 3D performance of the video card. Changing these voltages usually require modifying the video card.

The third voltage is the AGP voltage. This voltage has to do with the communication between the video card and the motherboard, the interface. The AGP specifcation calls for 3.3 volts at AGP 1x, 1.5 volt at 4x (and I think at 2x), AGP 8x is supposed to be 0.8 volt. This is the voltage that gets adjusted if a motherboard can adjust "AGP Voltage".

When you increase the bus speed on your motherboard usually you also increase the AGP clock, up from the standard 66 mhz. Push it too hard and you might have errors (I think the AGP spec provides for this so that the errors are normally anticipated and corrected but I'm not sure). In any case, increasing AGP voltage supposedly improves stability, probably when you are already near the limits of bus overclocking. Not all motherboards support changing the AGP voltage.

99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability

lhgpoobaa · Feb 28, 2003

Any decent hardware store i should think!

All it has to do is:
A. be conductive with low resistance.
B. be liquid so it can be painted on.
C. it dries so not to smudge or spread.

"Revenues were less than robust" - QWEST
"The company applied its accounting policies incorrectly" - WORLDCOM
"Certian financial adjustments may be required" - AOL+TW.

kohkohnut · Feb 28, 2003

well i m pretty nervous abt doing something like this.any advice on unlocking?n wats e worst case scenario+solution?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

kohkohnut · Feb 28, 2003

1)may i know wat is I/O voltage?(i have e option to change dis voltage but hav no idea wat it is)

2)"Just like with a CPU and memory of the main system, increasing voltages help with stability. In this case, it helps with overclocking the 3D performance of the video card. Changing these voltages usually require modifying the video card."-->do u know any websites dat teaches dis?

3)"Not all motherboards support changing the AGP voltage."
-->i m planning to buy a new mobo,so how can i know whether a particular mobo supports changing of Vagp?

4)would an increased AGP clock speed increase GPU n GRAM speed?if so,how can i find out how much it has been increased?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

phsstpok · Feb 28, 2003

<pre>1)may i know wat is I/O voltage?(i have e option to change dis voltage
but hav no idea wat it is)</pre>

It sets the voltage to your northbridge and to PCI devices (not sure about the latter). 3.3 volts is the norm.

<pre>2)"Just like with a CPU and memory of the main system, increasing voltages help with
stability. In this case, it helps with overclocking the 3D performance of the video card.
Changing these voltages usually require modifying the video card."

-->do u know any websites dat teaches dis?</pre>

Start at the <A HREF="http://hwfaq.overclockersonline.com/" target="_new">the Hardware FAQ</A>.

<pre>3)"Not all motherboards support changing the AGP voltage."
-->i m planning to buy a new mobo,so how can i know whether a particular mobo supports
changing of Vagp?</pre>

Don't know. Not even the manufacturers' sites always list this feature. I'd try reading reviews of motherboards that you are considering. Try the Mainboard Review Index at <A HREF="http://www.8dimensional.com" target="_new">8dimensional.com</A>.

<pre>4)would an increased AGP clock speed increase GPU n GRAM speed?

if so,how can i find out how much it has been increased?</pre>

Not directly. The GPU and memory continue to operate at the same speed whether or not the AGP port speed is increased. However, throughput of the AGP port is increased by higher clock speeds this should have some affect on performance. The amount depends on the game/application.

For example, typical FPS games attempt to load all the textures into the video card's memory when each level of the game loads. During the action AGP port utilization is kept as low as possible because saturating the AGP port would cause game stalls. Normally AGP speed doesn't become a factor except when the game uses up all of the video memory and needs more. At this point the AGP memory, meaning main system memory, is used for textures and models. Now instead of the high bandwidth of video memory, typically 5 GB/sec to 20 GB/sec for modern video cards, you are dealing with slow AGP bandwidth. AGP 4X only has a bandwidth 1.033 GB/sec (maximum). That's at 66 mhz AGP port speed. Overclocked, it would be a little higher but still very low compared to local video memory bandwidth.

99% is great, unless you are talking about system stabilityEdited by phsstpok on 02/28/03 02:12 PM.

kohkohnut · Mar 1, 2003

so would increasing the I/O voltage allow me to increase my FSB even more?

so it means dat i can use Powerstrip to o/c my Radeon safely even though i have o/c my computer via FSB?would it cause any unstability if i did dat?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

lhgpoobaa · Mar 2, 2003

the worst case scenario is the cpu doesnt work cauz it gets stuck at some stupid multiplier.

so some foresight and care is needed.
i personally never bothered to unlock my xp1800 palomino for that reason. too much hastle. later swapped it out for an unlocked tbredA xp1700+ that overclocked a whiole lot betta

"Revenues were less than robust" - QWEST
"The company applied its accounting policies incorrectly" - WORLDCOM
"Certian financial adjustments may be required" - AOL+TW.

kohkohnut · Mar 2, 2003

icic...oh yeah....btw,would a T-Bred A 1700+ cost more than a Palomino 1700+?n wat r the differences between retail n OEM processors?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

lhgpoobaa · Mar 2, 2003

no, they should cost the same... after all to most people they ARE the same! XP1700+ is XP1700+

"Revenues were less than robust" - QWEST
"The company applied its accounting policies incorrectly" - WORLDCOM
"Certian financial adjustments may be required" - AOL+TW.

lhgpoobaa · Mar 2, 2003

oh yeah

Retail come in a schnazzy box with sticker, big colourful instructions that any moron can follow and a certified stock heatsink + fan combo. they usually sport a longer warantee too.

the OEM is usually JUST a cpu. nothing else. and a much shorter warantee.

"Revenues were less than robust" - QWEST
"The company applied its accounting policies incorrectly" - WORLDCOM
"Certian financial adjustments may be required" - AOL+TW.

svol · Mar 2, 2003

so would increasing the I/O voltage allow me to increase my FSB even more?

Only if the FSB is limited by your PCI-cards and not by your memory.

As for a motherboard that allows Vagp changes... the Epox 8RDA+ supports them.

I use Busch conductive silver paint I found in a local modelbuilding shop... maybe you can find something similair.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

kohkohnut · Mar 2, 2003

so a OEM would cost less than a retail rite?n bundles simply means dat a mobo comes with the cpu?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

phsstpok · Mar 2, 2003

Personally, if I had the choice I would have AGP and PCI locked at their spec frequencies. This eliminates a lot of variables. You can then concentrate on CPU, bus, and memory speeds.

In theory, just as you sometimes need to increase voltage for CPU overclocking, a little more voltage for your northbridge might improve bus overclocking. And just like with an overclocked CPU you should have good cooling for the northbridge which designed to work at particular speed. If you are overclocking it and overvolting the northbridge you will be producing more heat. You want to be sure it is adequately cooled.

Even with increased voltage you might not get that much improvement, maybe a couple of mhz, maybe more, maybe none.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if your northbridge, or your memory is limiting is you, or PCI devices for that matter.

so it means dat i can use Powerstrip to o/c my Radeon safely even though i have o/c my computer via FSB?would it cause any unstability if i did dat?

Any overclocking can cause instability.

You want to work a bit at time. For example with the rest of your system at stock speeds figure out how far you can overclock your video card. Then work on your CPU speed. Fine tune with FSB speed including I/O voltage. You might even have to adjust your video card overclock. As Svol mentioned, don't forget about your memory. Despite it's rated speed it could still cause you problems. You might have to play with memory voltage. Again be careful. You can fine tune bus speeds by keeping the CPU speed and memory down (your motherboard has to support this) or running your memory with less aggressive timing (usually not worth it in the end but it's OK for testing purposes). This way you can isolate, to some degree, you bus speed.

Sometimes you have to compromise, give up a little bus speed so you can keep the best memory settings. Or give up a little CPU top end to keep the best bus speed.

In the end, it's all about achieving the optimum performance with stability.

99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability

kohkohnut · Mar 2, 2003

u use paint?how do u know whether its conductive or not?
btw i haven't been able to find any conductive silver lacquer in a hardware shop.the closest is a spray can of clear lacquer.will dat do the job?or where else can i try my luck?

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

svol · Mar 2, 2003

It was special silver conductive paint that can be used to fix PCBs and make eletronic channels in difficult places. So I suggest you find out if any local scale-modelbuilding shop sells something similair.

You can also try to find a garage that sells back window repair kits... those kits also include conductive silver 'paint'.

As for a spray can... I don't think that will work as the bridges are very tiny and may not connect eachother.

My dual-PSU PC is so powerfull that the neighbourhood dims when I turn it on

kohkohnut · Mar 2, 2003

well...i'll juz have to keep searching...quite a hopeless cause...

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

kohkohnut · Mar 2, 2003

well...o/cing is much harder than i thought...and achieving optimum performance with stability is even harder...all the cooling options out there is driving me crazy...btw r there any non PCI sound cards in the market?
(want to increase FSB further but not sure if the PCI can take it)

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

phsstpok · Mar 2, 2003

The only option to PCI sound cards is USB sound adapters and digital speakers. Don't know much about either of them though.

I wouldn't spend too much time fussing with FSB. I only use it for fine tuning. Bump it until your system is unstable then back off a couple of mhz for stability.

99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability

lhgpoobaa · Mar 2, 2003

mobo???? you get no mobo with the retail kit!!!
you get cpu, hsf, sticker & instructions.

"Revenues were less than robust" - QWEST
"The company applied its accounting policies incorrectly" - WORLDCOM
"Certian financial adjustments may be required" - AOL+TW.

kohkohnut · Mar 3, 2003

relax...u r mistaken...i was saying dat bundles included a mobo...not retail...

Athlon XP 1700+(1.47ghz)
ABIT KR7A KT266A DDR ATA 100m/b
384mb Kingston PC-2100 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 8500 64mb(Org)
40gb ATA100 7200RPM 2mb buffer(WD400BB)
WinXP with SP1

RE:1700+ o/ced

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