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can I overclock my p3 850mhz (100mhz fsb)

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June 19, 2003 3:29:09 PM

If you take a look at my system specs below.. can I overclock this chip? I used to have a p4 733mhz (100mhz fsb) chip but then that crapped out on me and Intel gave me a new chip but replaced it with a 850mhz (100mhz fsb) P3. Now I don't know if I can overclock the 850 because the mulitplier is so high: 8.5x
I used to have my P3 733 running at 900mhz but with like a 122fsb so it was faster than my current p3 850 with 100fsb

Please let me know if this is possible. You can see my system specs below and I also have the Golden Orb heatsink and fan if you need to know..

Thanks

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
June 19, 2003 4:40:39 PM

Ofcourse you can... just see how high this CPU will let your FSB go. If it doesn't go above 110 Mhz you stil got a 970 MHz CPU.

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 19, 2003 4:54:25 PM

I think I already tried overclocking it and faising the FSB and it just kept not booting up or crashing on me... I am afraid that I will ruin other components in the PC or even Erase data on my harddrive.. is this possible?

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
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June 19, 2003 4:58:03 PM

Try increasing the VCore of the CPU a little if it is still running cool, that might solve it.

And yes you can corrupt data on your HD with an unstable overclock... but then you have to run it for a long time and save/edit files while the system is unstable. You can also get data corruption with a to high PCI bus... but you don't have to bother about that unless you take the FSB real high (120+ MHz).

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 19, 2003 6:32:31 PM

Is there a way on both P3's and P4's where you can overclock and NOT affect the PCI and AGP bus speeds..?

And what can these PCI and AGP ports usually go up to in bus speeds?

I ask because I read about people overclocking P4's way up to like 271mhz front side bus.. I would have to think that the PCI and AGP slots would have a hard time running at that.. but again I am still a P3 user but would think that it would hold true the same for Pentium 3's


My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
June 19, 2003 6:34:11 PM

Oh yeah, and I posted a previous message asking about what all the Core voltages mean in Motherboard Monitor... meaning I don't understand what to increase or why you would increase voltages. I just understand the increasing of the front side bus but never played with voltages simpily because I don't understand them.. could you go into a little detail about them or do you have a link to a good article about it?

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
June 19, 2003 7:11:50 PM

Well not for the P3 and most P4... but there are some newer P4 boards that lock the PCI and AGP speeds.

First let me explain how the PCI and AGP speeds are measured:
For 100MHz FSB PCI=1/3 and AGP=2/3
For 133MHz FSB PCI=1/4 and AGP=1/2
For 166MHz FSB PCI=1/5 and AGP=2/5
For 200MHz FSB PCI=1/6 and AGP=1/3 etc.
all of the inital FSB speed.

PCI cards and the IDE controller often stay stable till 40MHz PCI bus... AGP cards often can endure extremely high AGP speeds, I have one running at 89MHz without any problems.

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 19, 2003 7:17:14 PM

Well you got some voltage like 3.3V, 5V and 12V (-12V and -5V optional) that can't be increased and are your powersupply voltages.

Then you got the VCore voltage of the CPU that should be 1.7V if I remember correctly for your CPU.
Sometime you also got the Vdimm (3.3V SDRAM (I think), 2.5V DDR), I/O Voltage (PCI-voltage) 3.3-5V and Vagp (3V or 1.5V depending on card bus speed).

The most important voltage for OC'ing is the VCore. Increasing the voltage means bringing more power on your CPU. This can be needed with overclocking because the CPU might run out of power when at a higher speed. The consequence of this is that your CPU is also going to emit more heat and that if you increase the VCore way to high (more than 0.5V increase without the adequate cooling) you can damage your CPU. Small increasement like 0.05-0.1V wont damage the CPU.

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
June 19, 2003 7:23:44 PM

so given those numbers, lets take for instance overclocking a 100mhz fsb p3 850mhz and lets push that in increments up to 133mhz fsb... what are the changes in my PCI and AGP buses at each increment... I guess what's the forumula used to determine this..

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
June 19, 2003 7:33:45 PM

Well to know that you have to figure out which difiders (so are the 1/4, 1/2 thingies called) your motherboard has has them for up to 133MHz. So at 133MHz FSB you will have a 33MHz PCI and 66MHz AGP bus speed.

The formula is: FSB*divider=bus speed

My CPU fan spins so fast that it creates a wormhole :eek: 
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 20, 2003 2:57:45 AM

The PIII 733 was only available with a 133MHz bus. So to check out your story, I divided 900 by 122, and came up with a multiplier of 7.37. Now that would be close enough to 7.33 for a 733/100 processor, but one problem remains...multipliers are only available at increments of .5!

So either you're lying and don't know what you're talking about, or you've forgotten a lot about your system and still don't know what you're talking about. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about, and can't be trusted.

Still, I'll go with the assumption that you made a mistake and give you the pearls of my knowledge. Most PIII's could be overclocked to just under 1GHz. Late production PIII's could go higher. I don't know if there were any late production PIII 850's, but if there were, you might be able to get it to run 133MHz FSB, giving you 1133MHz, at around 1.90v core.

If you can't stretch that far, you'll have problems with your PCI bus, because at lower bus speeds it will run at a different multiplier. You could try for around 115MHz bus, which would give you 960MHz.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 20, 2003 4:06:34 AM

actually now that I think back a little more.. I think I had a p3 700.. does that sound right? I know whatever chip I had definately had a 100mhz fsb and NOT 133fsb. And I think I was running it overclocked around 120 fsb or close around that range. I never increased voltage because I don't really understand the voltage game to tell you the truth and I didn't want to fry my chip..

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 20, 2003 4:57:34 AM

The 700 would run perfectly at 933MHz with a 133MHz bus, but often required slightly higher core voltages to be stable at that speed.

Your 850 is a "worse" overclocker because ideally, you want to reach at least 133MHz FSB, in order to use the 1/4 FSB/PCI divider.

Of course if your 850 is a late revision, you can try getting it to 1133MHz at 133MHz FSB. Also, core voltages of up to 1.95v are fine as long as you keep heat in check.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 20, 2003 4:03:00 PM

for the PCI and AGP bus speeds... these multipliers Change? I didn't know that they changed.. how do you computer what the multiple and bus speed is on them now, and how they will be affected when you start raising your system's FSB speed... how do they affect each other and what speeds can the PCI and AGP work up til? Are these speeds the same for p4 motherboards?

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 21, 2003 3:30:42 AM

Most P4 boards use a "fixed frequency" for PCI and AGP. I believe this requires a more complex clock generator chip.

Now PIII boards have ratios. Most PIII boards adjust ratios automatically, but some require it to be set manually.

For boards that change ratios manually, it's fairly common for 66-99MHz to use the 1/2 ratio, 100-132MHz to use the 1/3 ratio, and 133MHz+ to use the 1/4 ratio.

Some boards are capable of running the 1/4 PCI ratio at as little as 124MHz, but then anything from there to 132MHz UNDERCLOCKS the PCI bus slightly!

PCI devices can tolerate underclocking to 25MHz or less, but you loose some performance. Most devices can be overclocked as high as 41MHz, while a few are fussier.



<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
June 21, 2003 4:39:16 PM

okay thanks again for the help crashman... very helpful.
Well I will be buying a p4 this week along with a new motherboard and ram. Got my new Antec TrueControl550w yesterday, hooked it and the computer still froze. I was still getting low Core voltages of about 1.62 so I increased the voltage in the bios to 1.70 but this only increased the ACTUAL core voltage to about 1.66. But this didn't do anything, the computer still froze. And last night with the new PSU sometimes it woudln't even boot to windows, so times it would just freeze before getting to windows xp pro. I would have to keep hitting the reset button until I got into windows, and then it would still freeze sometimes while starting to load my startup programs in windows. After a few more tries I finally got into Windows and was able to use the computer for a little while, but it eventually froze again. Then I really bad thing happened... and I think it's my stupid fault. On the Antec 550w it has a Fan monitoring cable which you can monitor the fan speeds of the Power Supply and the other case fans which you plug into the "Fan Only" power connectors of the PSU. Well I located the "Fan 2" connector on the Abit SE6 motherboard and while the computer was running I plugged the fan cable into it. Lucky I didn't get zapped. Well I was in Windows while I did this and nothing happened. Motherboard Monitor told me the other fans where at 0 RPM. So I thought let me try the "Fan 3" connector on the motherboard now. So that's what I did and still nothing. The only fan that MBM 5 picked up was my CPU fan which was plugged into the "Fan 1" connection on the motherboard. This fan was at around like 4200 RPM's I believe. Well here is where the problem came. I said, let me restart the computer and go into the Bios and look at the fan speeds there. Maybe MBM isnt' reporting the right fan speeds to me. So I went ahead and did this and still no fan speeds. Well while I was in the Bios I stupidly was trying to connect the Fan monitoring cable again to the "Fan 2" port on the motherboard, and I think I misaligned the pins in the fan cable to the pin on the motherboard connector and all of a sudden the computer made a not so nice noise and the screen went black. Then the computer started to make this loud speaker noise that I have never heard before. So then I said "Oh SH%$##$" I must of maybe fried my motherboard or something. So I turned the power off on the back of the PSU and then turned it back on and my computer's Power button wouldn't even work. I pressed it and nothing happened. So I then disconnected the power cable from the PSU for about 2 seconds and then re-connected it again and hit the Power Button on the computer and it turned on. Well it turned on and the screen stayed black so I had no video and I could hear that it didn't boot fully. I was going through the Memory test I think but then nothing, it would just sit there and do absolutely nothing, no video, no harddrive spinning like as if it was processing something, nothing at all, just the sound of the fans. It was like a brain dead computer. So now I think I really broke it even if it broken before. I feel like such an idiot for trying to connect that damn fan cable while the computer was running and it was so late at night I didn't even think about shorting something out. But anyway, I didn't smell any oder or anything like that, it just simpily made a nasty computer internal speaker noise and then went to a black screen. What do you think my stupid ass managed to do to my system? If I only fired the motherboard and CPU I don't really care because I am just going to build my new p4 now anyhow.. it's about time. What I am worried about is that I might of fried all the components in the system and maybe even did damage to the new Antec PSU ? What do you think?

So with that all being said, I took the motherboard and CPU out of the computer last night, and just threw it in my closet for now. I left all the other components in the PC case and now will have to order new p4 stuff. So I suppose this thread is a couple questions... first off what I possibly did to my PC and if I could of damanged everything inside, and 2nd question is, now that it doesn't work I want to know what you would recommend I buy for a new p4 CPU, Ram, and motherboard. I was thinking along the lines of the Abit IS7 or Asus P4P800 for the motherboard and maybe the p4 2.4c for the CPU, not sure on the Ram yet.. but probally either Corsair or Kingston HyperX... what do you think I should go with. I will take the adice from somebody that has already probably been down this road and knows of the best components for overclocking, etc. because I plan to overclock my new p4. And I will probably need a better heatsink and fan if I overclock so if you know of a good one let me know. I don't want to get into water-cooling.

Thanks Crashman and the other folks here.. I really appreciate all your help.

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
June 21, 2003 4:41:36 PM

Oh yeah I forgot to ask.. should I go with a board that has Fixed PCI and AGP buses for overclocking? Is this a good thing? And if so what of the two boards I mentioned above have the fixed buses? I don't want to overclock and then have my PCI and AGP buses go way up because I am afraid my graphics card and sound card listed below as well as other PCI components might not be able to handle the faster bus speed.. what is the speed of the PCI and AGP buses in the p4 (800mhz fsb systems)?

My system:
P3 850mhz (100fsb), 512 Micron PC133, Abit SE6, IBM Deskstar 75gxp (60 gig @ 7200rpm), Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS (64 meg), SB Live MP3, Pioneer 16x DVD, Asus 45x CD-Rom
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 21, 2003 11:00:08 PM

I think you might have a different source for your power problems, that would be a bad capacitor on the motherboard (or several possibly). They usually swell on top or leak down the board when that happens. Anyway, you plan to replace the board so...

I'd go with an Abit IS7 or Asus P4P800. As far as I know all these modern boards have locked PCI/AGP in BIOS, and I know for certain that the IS7 and P4P800 do.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
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