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Interest in a Class-Action to help improve Verizon Wireless

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Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 16, 2005 7:42:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action suite:
send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
momentum.


Verizon Wireless has great service, but:
1) if they offered a plan for LIFE, yet the contract said they could
cancel/change it at any time. Would you trust them, when they said, "trust
us, ignore that fine print, we wouldn't do that?"
2) if they had business contracts that said that they are under no
obligation to act in good faith or fair dealing. Would you trust them after
three years of investment, as they just walk away and leave you holding the
bag. But when you signed up, they said that is just legal "stuff", we
wouldn't do that?"
3) if they said we won't publish your name in a telephone directory, but on
their web site they state that they have ALREADY shared all customer
information with 3rd party marketing companies....

Maybe I'm slow.... but if anybody else feels like we do, then please send
mail to see about joining a class-action@wiremore.biz We are looking for
interest in helping the system improve, because without an outside agent, or
"pain," things will stay the way they are. FYI: 39 Attorney Generals going
after Verizon Wireless, and 3 class action suites in the same number of
years might cause some folks some concern. They used to be #1 in customer
service, now slipping to #3. We used to say they were the "best of the
worse", so at number 3, they would be the average worst carrier.

But they do have good service... trust me, Psst: how do we know they have
such good service and coverage? Aside from personal experience, Verizon
tells us they do! And they wouldn't lie to us, now would they? Your phone
works in the swamp; your phone works in an elevator; and for those of you
that thought the phone would work in your house, remember even the president
of verizon wireless things that your (you customers) expectations are too
high! And I love when customer service says (about coverage) what you see
on TV is just marketing.... your phone won't work in an elevator, swamp,
etc.... so if you can't believe what they say, can't believe what they
write... take charge and do something. But remember, they do have good
coverage...

dr

If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action suite:
send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
momentum.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 16, 2005 7:42:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma wrote:
> If interested in leading, participating, or following a
> class-action suite: send mail to
> class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just
> gathering momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on
> board, but we are growing momentum.
>
>
> Verizon Wireless has great service, but:
> 1) if they offered a plan for LIFE, yet the contract said
> they could cancel/change it at any time. Would you trust
> them, when they said, "trust us, ignore that fine print,
> we wouldn't do that?" 2) if they had business contracts
> that said that they are under no obligation to act in
> good faith or fair dealing. Would you trust them after
> three years of investment, as they just walk away and
> leave you holding the bag. But when you signed up, they
> said that is just legal "stuff", we wouldn't do that?" 3)
> if they said we won't publish your name in a telephone
> directory, but on their web site they state that they
> have ALREADY shared all customer information with 3rd
> party marketing companies....
>
> Maybe I'm slow.... but if anybody else feels like we do,
> then please send mail to see about joining a
> class-action@wiremore.biz We are looking for interest in
> helping the system improve, because without an outside
> agent, or "pain," things will stay the way they are.
> FYI: 39 Attorney Generals going after Verizon Wireless,
> and 3 class action suites in the same number of years
> might cause some folks some concern. They used to be #1
> in customer service, now slipping to #3. We used to say
> they were the "best of the worse", so at number 3, they
> would be the average worst carrier.
>
> But they do have good service... trust me, Psst: how do
> we know they have such good service and coverage? Aside
> from personal experience, Verizon tells us they do! And
> they wouldn't lie to us, now would they? Your phone
> works in the swamp; your phone works in an elevator; and
> for those of you that thought the phone would work in
> your house, remember even the president of verizon
> wireless things that your (you customers) expectations
> are too high! And I love when customer service says
> (about coverage) what you see on TV is just marketing....
> your phone won't work in an elevator, swamp, etc.... so
> if you can't believe what they say, can't believe what
> they write... take charge and do something. But
> remember, they do have good coverage...

So they didn't renew your contract and now all of a sudden
you have a moral issue with them? I guess while they were
paying you money it was OK?

> 2) if they had business contracts
> that said that they are under no obligation to act in
> good faith or fair dealing. Would you trust them after
> three years of investment, as they just walk away and
> leave you holding the bag. But when you signed up, they
> said that is just legal "stuff", we wouldn't do that?"

Give me a break. You knowingly signed a contract that
you otherwise wouldn't have because they *said* "that is
just legal stuff"? and you have (I guess "had" is the
operative word here) a business?

I'm making no judgement on VZW being good or rotten
but I find your kind of hipocracy a bit much...

"So far, only 1 attorney general on board"

So I guess you have written the claim? Or did the attorney
general get on board for some vague claim that VZW are
bad people? Or was it the form letter you get back from
the Attorney General's Office when you file a complaint?

Get over yourself, learn from your mistakes and move on.

-Quick
May 16, 2005 7:42:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 09:11:52 -0700, "Quick"
<quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

>So they didn't renew your contract and now all of a sudden
>you have a moral issue with them? I guess while they were
>paying you money it was OK?

And that's why this stinks to high heaven, IMHO...the motivation is
clear on the OP's part. He got cut loose by VZW as an independent
reseller, and now he's going after them.

Long ago, on a small talk radio station not far from here, one of the
station's regular local callers ranted and raved daily about a major
fast food chain. He complained about their packaging (then styrofoam)
as being environmentally unsafe. He complained about the fat content
in their food. He complained about basically everything they did.

One day, another caller who knew this man called with the truth.

It seems that the man was actually a regular customer of this chain,
and one day at one of their locations, he slipped and fell on a
freshly mopped floor while going to the men's room.

He sued this chain, and won a $10,000 out of court settlement.
Apparently the $10K wasn't enough, so he sued them again and lost.

After that, he started digging into all of the above topics.

Without the slip-and-fall and his disappointment with the outcome,
this man would have been sitting in that fast food restaurant drinking
their coffee for hours on end, like he did before all this happened,
and not cared a whit about the content of their food or the packaging
they used...let alone take up hours of talk radio time to "spread the
word" about it.

Sound familiar?
Related resources
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 16, 2005 7:42:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> the Attorney General's Office when you file a complaint?
>
> Get over yourself, learn from your mistakes and move on.

Don't forget the most important aspect of class action suits...

The only ones that see any significant $$$ are the attorneys.

Notan
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 17, 2005 2:40:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:42:46 GMT, "dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma"
<dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma.com> wrote:

>If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action suite:
>send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
>momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
>momentum.

Yes, please sign me up! I am interested in a class action suit! I'd
love to see the attorneys who lead it make millions of dollars while
myself and all the participants get something like $20 off their bill,
or a 10% discount on an accessory of their choice (Maximum value:
$20.)
--
To reply, remove TheObvious from my e-mail address.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 17, 2005 10:09:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

So True....



> love to see the attorneys who lead it make millions of dollars while
> myself and all the participants get something like $20 off their bill,
> or a 10% discount on an accessory of their choice (Maximum value:
> $20.)
--
I work for the ILEC ...." stuff happens! "
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 17, 2005 10:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Remove This wrote:
> So True....
>
>
>
>> love to see the attorneys who lead it make millions of
>> dollars while myself and all the participants get
>> something like $20 off their bill, or a 10% discount on
>> an accessory of their choice (Maximum value: $20.)

$20? You're being a bit optimistic don't you think?

For this case I would expect:

*max* outcome.
VZW settles out of court, pays the lawyers something,
and agrees to change the font to bold in a few places
on the contract.

Most likely outcome:
(existing?) reply from attorney generals office (the one
already on board?). "While the Attorney General does
not handle individual complaints we do save all reports
in case this turns into a general problem that we do
address. Thank you for notifying us and your participation
in the Great State of ____."

-Quick
May 18, 2005 1:32:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Jesus, and some people bitch and complain to me...and this guy is actually
serious!!!!

"dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma" <dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma.com>
wrote in message news:Wb3ie.198$0A5.34@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action
> suite:
> send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
> momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
> momentum.
>
>
> Verizon Wireless has great service, but:
> 1) if they offered a plan for LIFE, yet the contract said they could
> cancel/change it at any time. Would you trust them, when they said,
> "trust
> us, ignore that fine print, we wouldn't do that?"
> 2) if they had business contracts that said that they are under no
> obligation to act in good faith or fair dealing. Would you trust them
> after
> three years of investment, as they just walk away and leave you holding
> the
> bag. But when you signed up, they said that is just legal "stuff", we
> wouldn't do that?"
> 3) if they said we won't publish your name in a telephone directory, but
> on
> their web site they state that they have ALREADY shared all customer
> information with 3rd party marketing companies....
>
> Maybe I'm slow.... but if anybody else feels like we do, then please send
> mail to see about joining a class-action@wiremore.biz We are looking for
> interest in helping the system improve, because without an outside agent,
> or
> "pain," things will stay the way they are. FYI: 39 Attorney Generals
> going
> after Verizon Wireless, and 3 class action suites in the same number of
> years might cause some folks some concern. They used to be #1 in customer
> service, now slipping to #3. We used to say they were the "best of the
> worse", so at number 3, they would be the average worst carrier.
>
> But they do have good service... trust me, Psst: how do we know they
> have
> such good service and coverage? Aside from personal experience, Verizon
> tells us they do! And they wouldn't lie to us, now would they? Your
> phone
> works in the swamp; your phone works in an elevator; and for those of you
> that thought the phone would work in your house, remember even the
> president
> of verizon wireless things that your (you customers) expectations are too
> high! And I love when customer service says (about coverage) what you see
> on TV is just marketing.... your phone won't work in an elevator, swamp,
> etc.... so if you can't believe what they say, can't believe what they
> write... take charge and do something. But remember, they do have good
> coverage...
>
> dr
>
> If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action
> suite:
> send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
> momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
> momentum.
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 18, 2005 3:16:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma wrote:
> If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action suite:
> send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
> momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
> momentum.

Dr. Wiremore (whatever your real name is):

You make some pretty fantastic charges against Verizon Wireless in your
quest to drum up supporters for a class action lawsuit. I just have a
couple of questions.


1. It would appear that by your own admission, you were an authorized
agent of Verizon Wireless for at least three years (see
http://tinyurl.com/72kdu ). Is this not correct?

2. In those three years, it would appear that you knowingly and
intentionally worked to convince your customers and users of usenet that
Verizon cares about its customers (an example: http://tinyurl.com/c9yb7
). Given that, would not it not be reasonable to conclude that during
those three years, you were a willing accomplice in the deceptive,
unethical and unfair business tactics that you are accusing Verizon of
practicing?

3. Given the above, why shouldn't your former customers be organizing a
class action lawsuit against you for being complicit in Verizon's
duplicitous business tactics?


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 18, 2005 3:16:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Isaiah Beard wrote:
> dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma wrote:
>> If interested in leading, participating, or following a
>> class-action suite: send mail to
>> class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just
>> gathering momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on
>> board, but we are growing momentum.
>
> Dr. Wiremore (whatever your real name is):
>
> You make some pretty fantastic charges against Verizon
> Wireless in your quest to drum up supporters for a class
> action lawsuit. I just have a couple of questions.
>
>
> 1. It would appear that by your own admission, you were
> an authorized agent of Verizon Wireless for at least
> three years (see http://tinyurl.com/72kdu ). Is this not
> correct?
>
> 2. In those three years, it would appear that you
> knowingly and intentionally worked to convince your
> customers and users of usenet that Verizon cares about
> its customers (an example: http://tinyurl.com/c9yb7 ).
> Given that, would not it not be reasonable to conclude
> that during those three years, you were a willing
> accomplice in the deceptive, unethical and unfair
> business tactics that you are accusing Verizon of
> practicing?
>
> 3. Given the above, why shouldn't your former customers
> be organizing a class action lawsuit against you for
> being complicit in Verizon's duplicitous business tactics?

Now this is interesting... Is is possible to accidently initiate
and be a party to a class action suit against yourself? Would
being a party to a class action suit against yourself mitigate
your damages by one settlement?

-Quick
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 18, 2005 3:16:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Now this is interesting... Is is possible to accidently initiate
> and be a party to a class action suit against yourself? Would
> being a party to a class action suit against yourself mitigate
> your damages by one settlement?

Even better... What if you were also an attorney?

Notan
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 18, 2005 3:57:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Evan Platt wrote:

> Yes, please sign me up! I am interested in a class action suit! I'd
> love to see the attorneys who lead it make millions of dollars while
> myself and all the participants get something like $20 off their bill,
> or a 10% discount on an accessory of their choice (Maximum value:
> $20.)

Or the $10 value pre-paid long distance phone card (which is virtually
worthless to someone that has cell phone service where long distance is
included). Yes, that was the actual settlment to plaintiffs in a cell
phone company class-action suit once. The attorneys pocketed around $7 mil.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 18, 2005 8:28:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:

>
> Now this is interesting... Is is possible to accidently initiate
> and be a party to a class action suit against yourself? Would
> being a party to a class action suit against yourself mitigate
> your damages by one settlement?

No, he's not initiating a class action suit against himself. What he IS
doing is ignoring the doctrine of clean hands. He is purporting to be a
victim of Verizon's alleged duplicity and fraud, when in fact he was an
admitted perpetrator of those same alleged actions for over three years.

In effect, if the class action suit really does have merit, his
custoemrs could launch a separate action against HIM. He could also be
disqualified as a lead plaintiff in his suit against Verizon (assuming
there IS merit), and once that happens, the two class action suits could
be combine into one... essentially landing him into a defendant's seat
right next to the very people he has an axe to grind with.

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 21, 2005 12:47:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It occurs to me that this guy was probably "feeling the waters" to see
if his screwed up idea was feasible. You all just gave him the
answer.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 24, 2005 9:27:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma" <dr.wireMORE@formerVZW-MidWESTma.com>
wrote in message news:Wb3ie.198$0A5.34@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> If interested in leading, participating, or following a class-action
suite:
> send mail to class-action@wiremore.biz No promises, we are just gathering
> momentum. So far, only 1 attorney general on board, but we are growing
> momentum.

<snip>

What are the grounds for the lawsuit?

Verizon is careful to not impose their service reductions on existing
customers that are under contract. In one instance, several years ago, they
offered customers the opportunity to terminate service without any
termination fee, if the customer did not agree to the service reduction that
they were imposing on everyone, including existing customers.

The one area where they have been dishonest, and where their might be
grounds, is in the reduction of America's Choice included off-network
roaming. While they retain the right to make changes to the extended network
coverage, the reductions have been unreasonable.

The recent decision to eliminate all roaming is pretty bizarre. I guess that
they figure that they won't lose a lot of customers that want to roam, since
existing customers are grand-fathered in. The change will affect new
customers, but their website is so misleading, that most new customers won't
realize what is happening until it is too late.

I think that in a couple of months we'll see Verizon offer something like
Sprint offers, with an option for roaming for an extra monthly fee, with
caveats about how only a limited percentage of calls can be off-network.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 24, 2005 9:27:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steven M. Scharf wrote:
>
> What are the grounds for the lawsuit?

Rational question.

> Verizon is careful to not impose their service reductions
> on existing customers that are under contract. In one
> instance, several years ago, they offered customers the
> opportunity to terminate service without any termination
> fee, if the customer did not agree to the service
> reduction that they were imposing on everyone, including
> existing customers.

Observant, still rational, thinking...

> The one area where they have been dishonest, and where
> their might be grounds, is in the reduction of America's
> Choice included off-network roaming. While they retain
> the right to make changes to the extended network
> coverage, the reductions have been unreasonable.

Oops. What happened? They offer a product. It may
be less than what was previously offered. That's a value
judgement the consumer needs to make when deciding
whether or not to purchase the product.

Cellular service hasn't been designated a necessity
yet or excusively granted contracts to provide service
mandating a certain level of service. There is no such
thing as an "unreasonable" plan. It may not be worth
the price to any given consumer but it's not unreasonable.

Or are you just pointing out that, in your opinion, this
is a bad business decision on their part? If so, you should
be sure to direct your advice to VZW's corporate offices.

-Quick
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 24, 2005 9:27:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Verizon is careful to not impose their service reductions on existing
> customers that are under contract.

Careful. Back when I was new to Verizon on a grandfathered-in contract
from Ameritech, they did some amazing things to my contract terms with
NO notice whatever to me. Most of it (e.g. the fact that my "home" area
was reduced by 70%) only became apparent to me when I called to argue
with them about other problems (e.g. wife's vacation in Phoenix one year
cost $50 more than the previous year because of changed terms), all
where they changed our terms without notice. What's worse, they didn't
want to make good on it, even double-teaming me on the phone, with both
the dude I started with and his supervisor trying to work me over and
convince me I was stupid. However, after most of an hour of finding
change after change and offering to fax them the documentation I'd be
using against them in court, they finally did back down on the charges
(but informed me that the new, reduced contract terms now applied for
future use).

--
I miss my .signature.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 25, 2005 12:46:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116958855.700602@sj-nntpcache-5...

> Oops. What happened? They offer a product. It may
> be less than what was previously offered. That's a value
> judgement the consumer needs to make when deciding
> whether or not to purchase the product.

You misunderstand. The problem is for people that purchased one product, and
after-the-fact are getting an inferior product.

I'm not talking about new customers, I'm talking about existing customers,
under contract, that signed up for AC because of the coverage it offered,
and then had that coverage substantially reduced.

For new customers, you are correct, they have to decide whether the product
suits their needs. Personally, I now have a product that was fine when I
purchased it, but it is no longer as good as it was.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 25, 2005 12:48:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"clifto" <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in message
news:i1dcm2-4lc.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
> Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> > Verizon is careful to not impose their service reductions on existing
> > customers that are under contract.
>
> Careful. Back when I was new to Verizon on a grandfathered-in contract
> from Ameritech, they did some amazing things to my contract terms with
> NO notice whatever to me.

<snip>

I think that they are lot more careful now. I was surprised to get a letter
that said I could get out of my contract with no fees if I didn't like the
reduced service.
Anonymous
a b F Wireless
May 28, 2005 1:25:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:yqMke.7105$M36.1717@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "clifto" <clifto@clifto.com> wrote in message
> news:i1dcm2-4lc.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
> > Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> > > Verizon is careful to not impose their service reductions on
existing
> > > customers that are under contract.
> >
> > Careful. Back when I was new to Verizon on a grandfathered-in
contract
> > from Ameritech, they did some amazing things to my contract terms
with
> > NO notice whatever to me.
>
> <snip>
>
> I think that they are lot more careful now. I was surprised to get a
letter
> that said I could get out of my contract with no fees if I didn't
like the
> reduced service.
>

In June of last year I signed up by phone for Verizon service on a 30
day trial plan (California regulations). I provided my own phone and
after 30 days I was able to get a no contract, month to month 2000
minute America's Choice plan which I eventually increased to 3000
minutes and then to 4000 minutes for $199/mo.

Part of the no contract deal was no free nights and weekends which was
no big deal for me since most of my calls are during business hours.

At the end of March, I started having poor or no service within a 3
mile radius of my home where service was previously great. After weeks
of patiently reporting the problem to Verizon CS, I finally tried to
cancel my Verizon service to port my number over to another carrier
that worked were Verizon service failed. I was told that I had a
contract until the end of June 2005 and it would cost me an early
termination fee of $175.00.

Between the end of March and the end of April, I had no less than 2
Verizon CS people verify that I was on a month to month contract, one
person even told me that I had free N/W even without a contract and
set them up for me. At a Verizon store, I was able to look at the
details of my account and it was definitely month to month.

At the beginning of May, shortly after going round and round on the
phone with a CS accounting supervisor about a credit for no service, I
received a copy of the contract I never had along with a surly
retention letter.

I was eventually able to get my number ported over to another carrier,
get a measly $25 credit and close my account without an early
termination fee by politely escalating my case up to someone who could
make the decision.

Except for the pedigreed female accounting supervisor, just about
every Verizon CS person was courteous even though a few of them
outright lied to me.

Chas.
!