Tualatin Celeron Overclocking

slb132 · Apr 6, 2004

Alright guys, I recently upgraded my Slot 1 PIII 800E MHz to a Tualatin Celeron 1.4GHz with the PowerLeap Adapter. My Board is a Via Apollo Pro DFI TA64-B Rev. A1. The board has a Slot 1 and Coppermine supporting Socket 370.

The boost from the Tualatin Celeron is a nice addition, but I have a few questions. The max I can seem to get out of this sucker is 1.6GHz 115MHz FSB. I'm assuming the reason I can't go higher is because of no AGP/PCI Lock?

I've tried to use CPUFSB and SoftFSB but I can't find my Motherboard on the list. Going to CPU/Voltage Control in the BIOS gives me the FSB settings up to 133MHz, but sadly it can't post past 115MHz. Is there any way I can push anymore out of this CPU? I know going from a PIII 800/100/256 to a 1600/115/256 is a nice boost but I want to know if there's anymore power out of this CPU of mine, thanks.

DFI i815EP, Intel Pentium III (Tualatin) 1.26GHz, ATI Radeon 9100, SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Platinum, Samsung 512MB SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

slb132 · Apr 7, 2004

Anybody with some input? Do you think it would have been better to go for a 1GHz Tualatin Celeron to OC, maybe the clockspeed is too high for it to handle...so I can't push the FSB up any higher, or maybe it's the PCI Bus speed. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 7, 2004

OMG, you went about this all wrong and waisted your money. There are several experts in here who would have helped you decide on a better plan if only you had asked FIRST!

OK, first of all, the Powerleap adapter: Bad idea. The Upgradeware Slot-T is a far better for overclocking, far cheaper, and far more reliable. You see, the Slot-T doesn't have an onboard VRM like the Powerleap, instead it uses the motherboard's VRM. That limits the Slot-T to boards that can support Coppermine voltages, but yours already HAD a Coppermine.

The Slot-T adapter allows you to set the voltage detection pins manually, so you can adjust the voltage even on boardsw without adjustable voltage. And you can still use the Voltage control in BIOS, because the Slot-T relies on the Motherboard's VRM. Best of all, it only cost $20.

Now the Celeron, a 1400 is a terrible choice for overclocking. The BEST choice is the Tualatin 1100, because at 1333MHz, you get 1466MHz with a HUGE increase in memory bandwidth over the stock 1400. This gives you a SIGNIFICANT performance boost, and nearly ALL 1100's will hit 1466 or more. 150MHz FSB would get these to 1650MHz.

The next best choice for overclocking is the Tualatin 1200 Celeron. It goes to 1600MHz at 133MHz FSB, with around a 50% success rate. Because you MIGHT end up with a CPU that only goes to around 120MHz FSB (1440MHz and lower memory bandwidth), I lable it second to the 1100.

Sad to say, but even at 1600MHz, the 1400 isn't giving you the performance the 1100@1466 would. Bus speed is just that important to performance.

So you could have gotten a $20 Slot-T and a $40 Tualatin Celeron 1100, that $60 would have paid off better performance than whatever you spent on that inferior adapter and over-multiplied CPU.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

slb132 · Apr 7, 2004

Simple enough Crash, I'll just resell the adapter on Ebay for the same price or a little less that I sold it for, and just pop in my 800MHz PIII for the time being. Ok I need the 1100 or 1200 Tualatin Celeron instead, plus the Slot-T Adapter? Ok, I think I'll go for it.

I realize FSB is an important thing, but do you think my board will get that high of a FSB? Right now the processor won't boot up at 120FSB because of the PCI Clock being too high I think.

But is this increase substantial enough to warrant the time to sell the adapter and get the new adapter and proc? Thanks Crash.

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

That's the funny thing about PCI clock! I believe your chipset supports 133MHz FSB. I'm nearly sure of it! But at 120MHz your PCI bus is overclocked, and at 133 it isn't. You see, chipsets of that erra have fixed dividers. At 100MHz and above, it's using a 1/3 PCI/FSB ratio. At 133MHz, it's using a 1/4 PCI/FSB ratio.

Some boards changed the multiplier at 133. Some were a bit more user friendly and changed it at 121MHz I believe.

Time and effort: You'll have to look around for some very old post I did, I think my 1100@1466 was around 15% faster than my 1200@1480. But my memory isn't THAT perfect, you'll find it in the archives.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Well at 133FSB the 1.4 Proc won't boot either....I don't know if that's PCI Bus or what...maybe it was just too much for it?

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

I just checked the PCI Clock and it's like this:

66/33 and as you go up on FSB it the PCI bus goes up, then at 100 it goes:

100/33 again, and as it goes up the PCI bus goes up again, and once it hits 133 it's still overclocking the bus, up to 44MHz....

Well as you can see, I'm going for 'em:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3472102665&category=16180&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBBI%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3471914900&category=41993&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBBI%3AIT&rd=1

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Crash, man, I just saw this GREAT DEAL for a TUSL2 and Celeron 1000A (screw the chip, i'll get the 1100) for 89.99! If I can't get the FSB up past 133 I'll just get this board instead because I'm sure that is has the PCI Lock and voltage regulator.

See, i also have a 1.26 PIII-S with a DFI board that has that same problem when I try to up the FSB past 145 it won't work. I wonder if that's because I can't get the voltage high enough or if it's the PCI Bus SPeed. Grrrr so many options. For one, I could just get this 1.1 and Slot-T for probably around 60 bucks and hopefully OC the FSB to 133 or higher, but I'm not sure if that will work because of the PCI Bus, and as you saw it was up to 42MHz at 133MHz. Also, 133 is as far as the BIOS will allow my chip to go! Arghh, what should I do Crash, help me out!

Option 1) Keep TA64-B with PIII 800 in separate system. Sell Powerleap adapter plus processor. But Tualatin 1.1 and TUSL2 and OC the hell outta it.

Option 2) Buy Slot-T Adapter and 1.1 and hope to get past 133FSB and sell off Powerleap adapter plus processor plus PIII 800.

Option 3) Just Sell off PIII 800 and stay where I'm at.

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz 115MHz FSB, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

Nope, none of them have a PCI lock. Not one. Most boards from the BX onward had the 1/4 PCI divider though.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

Of COURSE 1866MHz is too much for your processor. The thing would at best do 1700MHz if you're very lucky!

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

I just checked your board, it's a VIA Apollo Pro 133A chipset board, it supports 1/4 PCI and 1/2 AGP dividers at 133MHz FSB, you must be mistaken. Either that or your need to change your base ratio in BIOS. Some BIOS had base ratios, such as CPU/RAM/PCI of 66/100/33, 100/100/33, 133/100/33, and 133/133/33. Now, if you picked the 100/100/33 ratio and overclocked from there, your PCI would be overclocked, but if you picked the 133/100/33 or the 133/133/33 ratio it wouldn't overclock the PCI bus.

I'm going to recommend agaist the TUSL2. The reason is, these boards don't kick up the voltage to your settings until the system POST. That can be a problem for overclocking, as a highly overclocked processor might NEED extra voltage to REACH POST.

With the Upgradeware Slot-T, you can adjust what voltage your CPU uses on the adpater itself. You set the VID pins (voltage identification) to the 1.65v setting, and you get 1.65v the instant you turn it on, not waiting for POST before the raised voltage kicks in.

About the 1000A, you might be able to hit 1500@150, but good luck finding RAM that would go to 150. Still, at 1400@140, it would be much faster than a stock 1400@100.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

jclw · Apr 8, 2004

Crash has covered pretty much everything but I'll add a few of my own opinions.

I've got a Tualeron 1.2 (tB1 stepping) that does 1740 comfortably on a TUSL2-C with a pin mod to increase the cold boot voltage. I've recently added a TV tuner card that really wants the PCI bus in spec so I've dropped it down to 1600 (133FSB with the 1/4 PCI divider).

The TUSL2-C is a fun board - good overclocking options, hacked BIOSes available, and stable to about 166FSB if you can find the memory. The Abit ST6 is an even better overclocker if you can find one, but unless you're shooting for more then 166FSB the TUSL2-C is just as good - and better in some ways.

The VIA based board will be hurting in terms of both memory and PCI bandwidth.

I'll post some sandra benchies for you to compare you're 1600 115FSB against, which might help you decide if you want to upgrade.

<A HREF="http://users.eastlink.ca/~southstboys/WImages/CPUZ.gif" target="_new">CPUZ</A>
<A HREF="http://users.eastlink.ca/~southstboys/WImages/Multi.gif" target="_new">Sandra 2003 multimedia</A>
<A HREF="http://users.eastlink.ca/~southstboys/WImages/Arith.gif" target="_new">Sandra 2003 arithmetic</A>

I have those three online already, I can do some others if you want.

When you're looking at Tualatin cores be aware that their are two steppings - tA1 and tB1. tB1 cores generally do a little better then tA1 cores. If you can't find a tB1 at least look for a processor with an sSpec starting with SL6__.

Unless you're looking at a big jump I'd save your money for a P4 MO to play with.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Ok Crash, here is my BIOS

CPU/Voltage Control has these under it

Auto Detect DIMM/PCI Clk
Enable/Disable

Spread Spectrum
Enable/Disable

CPU Host/PCI Clock
Default
66/33
75/37
83/41
100/33
103/34
112/37
124/41
133/44
105/35
110/36
115/38
120/40

I have no idea how I would get 150FSB with this motherboard at ALL, let alone 133FSB!

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Nah, I like playing with old technology myself. If I were to buy anything new I'd get a Mobile XP 2500+ and OC the hell outta it. But anyway, the only PCI card I have in my comp is Sound Blaster Live 5.1, AGP Card is Radeon 7000 (soon to be replaced by 9500 Pro). JC, I'm using 2004 version, so I'm not sure if that's the same thing.

Crash, is there a way I can use any software FSB OCing or am I stuck with this Inferior BIOS that won't allow [-peep-] for OCing!?

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Well I just won the Slot-T Adapter for 27 w/ shipping so I guess I'm going with my Plan B. Now I just need to get my figure out how to get my FSB up to 133 with this board!

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

DON'T MAKE ME DOWNLOAD YOUR MANUAL!!!

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Download it, please!

Pretty Please?

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

OK, I just downloaded the jumper guide. You have 2 jumpers on your motherboard that control bus speed, JP1 and JP2. They are located just under your AGP card. Here are the settings:
Auto: JP1=1-2, JP2=1-2
66MHz: JP1=2-3, JP2=2-3
100MHz: JP1=1-2, JP2=2-3
133MHz: JP1=1-2, JP2=Off.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

BTW, if you leave the board on Auto, you can set the BSEL (Bus Speed Select, for auto detection) on the Slot-T adapter to 133MHz as well.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

I tried to move the jumpers to 133FSB already and that just made the system not boot up. I moved them to 100FSB and it still didn't boot up, moved them to Auto, STILL WOULDN'T BOOT UP! So I took the Celeron out and put my old PIII back in, booted up fine. Took my PIII out and Celeron back in, and booted up fine again. I then concluded that the jumpers won't fix a damn thing....

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

BTW, ignore the Multiplier switches, these processors force their own multiplier.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

Hey Crash, I just thought I'd say I really appreciate your help. I don't mean for you to go through this much trouble, but it's greatly appreciated man.

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

slb132 · Apr 8, 2004

BTW, Crash, would I be able to get my FSB to 150 or so with this Slot-T or am I stuck at 133?

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Crashman · Apr 8, 2004

First get it working at 133MHz, then try overclocking. If your board is set at auto and working right now, try setting the adapter to 133MHz and 1.70v. That should get you to 1466 on the 1100 with room to spare, it might get you to 1600MHz on the 1200.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

slb132 · Apr 9, 2004

I won the 1.1 Celeron! for 38.50 that's like a steal! I also won the Adapter for 20. Do you think the Geforce 4 Ti4200 and that overclocked Celeron are pretty much balanced for CPU and Vid Card?

DFI TA64-B, Intel Celeron (Tualatin) 1.6GHz, ATI Radeon 7000

, SoundBlaster Live! 5.1, Kingston 512MB PC133 SDRAM, Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache

Tualatin Celeron Overclocking

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