Wondering about future coolers...

[x86]

Lately I've been pondering over future cooling systems, and frankly I don't see how much longer air is going to last, yet prebuilt manufacturers are going to need a cheap way of cooling unless they wish to add $200+ to the prices of new rigs for a water system and add the risk of the average user accidentally breaking a hose or what not and spraying coolant all over their components.

Even the more rediculous heatsinks such as the MCX6400-V which weighs at about 1.5lbs are noted in specification to only be able to handle 130w of heat from the cpu if you have a 40+db fan, while watercooling systems are known to handle as much as 400w, and probably much more for costly Vapochill.

I've been hearing about "micro fans" lately that will be fabricated right on the cpu's heat spreader, but I see no way that microscopic fans could do much of anything to cool. I may be wrong though.. I just wanted to know if anybody has heard of any cheap methods of cooling that will be used in the future.

 

[scottchen]

Swiftech heatsinks are light weighted compare to the new coolermaster and Thermalright heatsinks, which all weighs about 1K.

Just build your own watercooling system, it's pretty cheap if you're smart.
Junkyard salvage a car's heatercore, an icecream bucket for reservoir, tubing can't be that hard to find, a house fan to cool heatercore, pumps are easy to find, then all you gotta buy is the waterblocks.

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[Crashman]

Water is a bad idea for mass production, heat pipes would do nicely, or they could countinue making coolers larger and thiner to compensate for weight.

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[scottchen]

U mean similar to rackmounts?

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[Crashman]

no

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[scottchen]

But how would you go about making them thinner? Most motherboard already has problems with today's heatsinks, since all these goddamn capacitors are always on the way.

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[Crashman]

I don't know, but my RADIATOR seems fairly light, so they just OUGHT to be able to make the sinks lighter/thinner. And they could design boards to allow for larger coolers.

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[ImpPatience]

Heat pipes to a huge heat sink on the back of the motherboard with several fans blowing on it? Same idea as those huge GPU heatsinks (a.k.a. Thermaltake Giant III) Wouldn't work with the current ATX or BTX standards I think. But then again, somethings got to change if air cooled heatsinks ain't going to work.

<font color=blue><b>Virtue is its' own punishment<b></font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ImpPatience on 06/25/04 04:57 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[scottchen]

How about let's just heatpipe it to the case? I think the case should dissipate faster since room temp is lower than the temp inside the case.

Hey i think that's actually a good idea, heatpipes carrying heat upwards to the top cover of the case, let's just have some fins on the top of the case and 2x120mm fans.

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[ImpPatience]

Someone kinda already did that I think. <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040115/index.html" target="_new"> Zalman </A> built a all aluminum case with heat pipes connectiong everything to it (cpu, gpu, hard drives, etc.) No fans period! They wanted about a thousand US dollars for the case though I think.

I wonder though, how hard it would be it make what you are suggesting? Probably too hard for someone who doesn't have access to a very good shop I imagine. At least the actual heatpipes would be out of the question I think since aren't those vaccum tubes? (my understanding is that a heatpipe uses a vaccum (i.e. like outer-space is a vaccum) to lower the boiling point of some liquid) But could you get away with just using solid metal to connect the heat source (cpu, gpu, and so forth) to the radiator on top of the case?

For the average Joe, (or even some un-average Joes) this might not be worth the hassle. But then again, if major manufacturers got involved it might keep general computers from going to water cooled solutions.

Anyways, food for thought.

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[jammydodger]

I saw that zalman case, thought it was a pretty clever idea. But I bet it is gonna be damn expensive.

But could you get away with just using solid metal to connect the heat source

I doubt copper would be able to carry the heat away fast enough, I dont even know if silver would be able to. But I failed physics so Im probably wrong.

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[scottchen]

Before we know it, Intel's gonna be bundling vapochill or prometeia with their CPUs as stockcooler.

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[ImpPatience]

I failed too - so your guess about that is as good as mine. But I would imagine that you are right otherwise they would be doing that already.

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[ImpPatience]

If metals can transfer heat away from a processor a 'x' amount of speed, then is there a practical limit to how big a conventional heat sink (i.e. solid metal - no heat pipes etc) can be? I mean they could just make heat sinks bigger bigger and make motherboard and case manufacturers deal with it. But if it takes a long time for the heat to even get to the metal, then what good would it be?

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[jheine]

Actually, I think I read that Apple is starting to ship their new G5 systems with stock watercooling. I think we'll see it on the PC side soon enough, as I've even seen the Koolance cases sell at the local CompUSA just a year ago or better.

Jarrett

 

[Crashman]

Heat pipes are a superior solution for OEM's because they don't require any moving parts.

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[pddaum]

Speaking of the BTX form factor...I remember reading that the design is supposed to provide better cooling of the cpu and all components. They have different zones or something. I dont know how much better it is supposed to be, but it might assist in future cooling.

 

[Colt357TW]

Dude, no TR HSF weight in near 1Kg. Are you sure you are not messed it up with TT junks?

BTW, XP-120 weight in 380g without fan, and it can tame a 3.6G Prescott better than RBX/BlackIce2/Eheim1046 using same fan. I would know since i am doing a test on it.

 

[Colt357TW]

sorry, PC case had less surface area than a SLK-800. not good for convection

 

[Colt357TW]

you are correct with your assumption sir, that is why we did not see a drastic reduction on temperature when SLK-800 sized up to SLK-900. However, with larger surface area it is capable of using less noisy fan. Wish Tom could work with BillA or Joe to do a REAL heatsink/cooling article

 

[ImpPatience]

sorry, PC case had less surface area than a SLK-800. not good for convection

True, but if we convolute the case sides like <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040115/index.html" target="_new"> this one</A>, plus use heatpipes extensively, and then add active cooling...

I think we have seen like in the case of the graphics card sandwhiched coolers by Zalman and Thermaltake when a passive cooling solution works great, active cooling can only make it better.

Personally though, I think it would be a sad day for CPU manufacturers when they would be forced to use a case-sized heatsink for cooling. But if that is what must be, then so be it. If that ever happens I would recommend buying stock in aluminum and copper, because $#%@, they will need a lot of it.

<font color=blue><b>Virtue is its' own punishment<b></font color=blue><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ImpPatience on 07/13/04 11:46 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Colt357TW]

not to get into the detail production issues and try to keep this as a worthwhile discussion should we take a look of this case and see why it is not up to par?

The heatpipes are clamps on to aluminium surface via thermal grease and screws. When look at thermal passage as a whole, Heat source->thermal grease -> copper block -> thermal grease -> heat pipes -> thermal grease -> aluminium case just....well, that's quite a few layers of thermal grease(¢XC/W >0.02? each) for thermal energy to go from point A to point B, not to mentioned that heatpipes are essentially copper pipes with near vaccum internal (negative pressure inside) that is subject to bend and twist and worse yet, snapped. Trusting my hard earn dollars(all my CPU/GPU/HDD are purchased, someone want to donate me a 6800 Ultra?) on something prone to break down and not mechanically sound is not something I would be happy with.

second, for something to cool quickly passively, the gap between fins are generally wider than active convection HSF design to increase the chance for air molecules to bounce on and pick up thermal energy from fin surface. If the case can have soldered heatpipes which allows certain degree of bending for openings and installations, how much material will be use on the case exterior will be deciding factor of how well it will "passively" convecting thermal energy.

It would be interesting if Tom put a 775 pins Prescott and a 6800 GT/X800XT in this Zalman BS and run some torture tests. Either P4Maxpo*er or 2 instances of P95 for 24 hours would be fine. Frankly I think the system will automatically shutdown within 1 hour. Maybe 2 hours if the room is AC'ed.

Intel showned a dual 12CM fan HSF (BTX platform) with 3 heatpipes in Spring IDF in Tokyo, I wonder how it fair out in warmer countries such as India or Thailand....However, I do agree with your opinion on start purchasing Al/Cu option/stocks, we already saw a price spike on the end of last year, until Intel put that dual Dothan core CPU on the market, Cu will be a really hot commodety