A64 Overclocking Options

[ChipDeath]

OK.. I'm doing the preliminary research into building an A64 System.

It'll probably be Nforce3 & a 6800GT.

It's going to be water cooled (CPU & GPU), and fairly heavily overclocked ..
I was just after suggestions/opinions on a couple of things:

Is there any real need to go 939 over 754? I know you get Dual channel, but is the meagre performance increase actually worthwhile? Plus 754 means I don't then have the additional worry of the RAM being DC-happy at higher speeds.

What's the best CPU (for overclocking)? I was thinking around 3200+ or 3400+. I've heard it said that the Clawhammer core chips are better overclockers - or is it simply that they overclock to about the same speeds, but perform better because of the extra cache?

Any suggestions for a case? I was thinking about <A HREF="http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=300418&cks=PRL" target="_new">this one</A>, because it's cheap, has lots of drive bays & has a side panel with a window.

Suggestions for watercooling parts? Any personal recommendations for which easily available waterblocks/radiators/pumps are good?

I've not put together a water-cooled rig before, so any pointers would be appreciated

---
Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x10 (~2Ghz), 1.4 Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @418/742

 

[Blasphemy]

Socket 939 over 754? Different people will give you different reasons, and guess what...I was in the same boat about 2 weeks ago. I choose to go 939 because 754 is looking to become a budget market setup...which isn't bad, but all the 'High Powered' new CPUs are going to be 939 only, so think about upgradability in that respect down the line. The price difference really isn't that huge, so if I were you, I'd just pay more knowning that I can have a upgradable computer system. And the dual channel on 939 doesn't matter that much, it's like a 2% or something boost, so nothing major. It's really just up to you, I mean, do you plan to upgrade like in 3 months or maybe in a year? If you said in a year, maybe 754 is right for you because there will be a new socket and chipset by then so 939 wouldn't be justified. But if in 3 months you might want to splurge on a fast CPU, you may find it's not there for the 754.

Watercooling eh? I really have no advice to lend, since I haven't ever done it, however I'm sure anyone who does would tell you to go to DangerDen.com for supplies. I also read that Eheim pumps are very excellent. Also, 1/2inch tubing is a must, as 3/8" doesn't provide very good preformance. Well anyway, good luck on the water cooling and system, let us know when it's all together and ready.

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AMD Athlon XP 2100+ stock
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
1GB generic RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 360/335

 

[wschuerm]

Socket 939 is best I think, definetly if you want an upgradepath. In aa week or two Nforce 4 will be available. Which gives you the option to buy a mobo with PCI express.

As for watercooling, www.innovatek.de, www.watercooling.de
there are links to american resellers or counterparts but from innovatek you can order direct. Maybe 1/2 " performs better but I don't really believe it I have 10mm od and 8mm id (10/8 tubes) and my 2.4 piv runs @ 29 C idle and 35 load with my Innovatek setup. I have a Black Ice extreme radiator which I believe are the best (and they also look nicest) Eheim pumps are widely recommended but I have a hydor L30 which seems to do the trick, I have a Innovatek XXL CPU block and a graph-o-matic block on my videocard (temps used to be around 70 C with stock cooler and are now never above 35 C) Installation is great because of screw thingies to tighten the hose (I don't have to much trust in the system of asetek where you just stick the hose in but it does seem to be ok so you should check them out they are about the best in watercooling sets) But I wouldn't buy a set just do the reseacrh and look at what you need, those sets are just as expensive (if not more as separate parts) and sometimes they save on radiator sizes. For instance they will give a black ice extreme with their top sets but I have black ice extreme II whch is double the size, and with a cpu and hithead graphics card this is nice to have (especially when overclocking so you have some headroom).

ASUS P4P800S-X
P IV 2,4 @ nothing caus this board doesn't OC for [-peep-]
2x512MB Corsair pc4000
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled

 

[ChipDeath]

Yeah I wasn't planning on getting a Kit, as I want GPU+CPU cooling but most of the kits with those also come with a Chipset waterblock, and I can't see a need for one of them on an A64 system.

I don't much care about upgradeability. If I'm spending £300 + on a new processor somewhere down the line, an extra £80 for a new motherboard is not much more. I've always upgraded both at once in the past.

939 is nice and tempting though - I'll just wait and see what Nforce4 is like, but I suspect nforce3 will be the platform of choice. We shall see - like I said this is just the preliminary research stage.

---
Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x10 (~2Ghz), 1.4 Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @418/742

 

[wschuerm]

I guess your fromm england (pounds) shipping to UK from www.watercooling.de is 12.5€ which is ok imo. The shop is great I bought my stuff there and I'm very pleased. S939 should provide you with better performance, definetly when overclocking. Read the benches in this review, all cpu's where oc'd to 2.5 ghz and the 3400+ really does suffer from single channel operation in some tests. <A HREF="http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=230" target="_new">http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=230</A>

ASUS P4P800S-X
P IV 2,4 @ nothing caus this board doesn't OC for [-peep-]
2x512MB Corsair pc4000
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by wschuerm on 10/14/04 09:52 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[ChipDeath]

Yup... Although the 3400+ wins some tests for some reason... Which makes one wonder about how good his testing methods are..

Plus of course this raises the 90nm question... That site suggests there are minor core improvements that improve performance at the same clock, yet other sites have found no evidence of this ....

I think I'll wait for some accurate info regarding AMD's 90 nano chips before I build anything, but a 90nm 3200+ looks to be a good choice for a bang-for-buck oc.

Thanks for the input. I'll have a look at that site you suggested...

---
Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x10 (~2Ghz), 1.4 Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @418/742

 

[wschuerm]

anandtech also has a review up now which comes to the same conclusion in regards to minor improvements (they think). As for the 3400+ winning some tests I think this can be explained by its (if it is the case of course) 1mb cache versus 512kb for the rest of the tested cpu's.

And judgiung by your current system specs I'd get just the mobo and CPU and keep the radeon 9800 and corsair XLL for dual channel and sell the pc4000. In some reviews the radeon 9800pro scores better on HL2 then X800 pro

ASUS P4P800S-X
P IV 2,4 @ nothing caus this board doesn't OC for [-peep-]
2x512MB Corsair pc4000
120 maxtor SATA
Sapphire Radeon 9800pro 128mb
Watercooled<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by wschuerm on 10/14/04 09:56 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[ChipDeath]

I would do, but this is a kind of 'joint project' with a friend of mine to build him a PC. He's got a slightly overclocked rig now, and is interested in building a watercooled system with neons lights and stuff.

His budget is around £1500. I think I can build a pretty decent rig with that.

My next rig will probably be similar to this as well, but I've got some credit card bills to pay off first :frown: .

---
Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x10 (~2Ghz), 1.4 Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @418/742

 

[ChipDeath]

OK... Having read Anandtech's recent 90nm A64 piece, I think socket 939 is no longer a more expensive option...

How about this:

Motherboard: MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum
CPU - A64 3000+ S939 90nm
RAM - Corsair TwinX PC4000 1Gb

The 90nm 3000+ seems to oc to at least the same levels as anything else, and is nice and cheap. I want the RAM to not need a stupid 4:5 ratio or something, hence the PC4000. The Corsair stuff is a guaranteed Dual-channel kit, but any suggestions there are welcome (assuming I can get hold of the stuff fairly easily )

I will be unhappy if I can't get at least 2.6Ghz out of that CPU, since Anand managed that on air cooling.

Bearing in mind it's going to be watercooled and overclocked, which Gfx card is better? a 6800GT or a X800Pro?

I still have plenty of time here, this is something I want to get right first time. I'll certainly wait a little longer for more reviews/tests on the 90nm A64 chips, but it's fairly imminent.... Looking for a half-decent car is still consuming my research time... :frown:

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Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x11 (~2.2Ghz), 1.55 Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @400/730