weird bug in VC-PC

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

I found this weird bug in VC-PC and I do not think I will be able to
replicate it. I was jumping around on a bike in the airport when the bike
crashed in flames under one of those ramps for engine wash that are on the
runway. It was the ramp that is almost vertical. When I got off the bike I
found my self instantly teleported to inside the airport terminal boarding
arms with all my weapons, however, when I left the airport I lost them all.

Just thought I'd share.

-Ian
20 answers Last reply
More about weird
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Ian wrote:
    >
    > I found this weird bug in VC-PC and I do not think I will be able to
    > replicate it. I was jumping around on a bike in the airport when the bike
    > crashed in flames under one of those ramps for engine wash that are on the
    > runway. It was the ramp that is almost vertical. When I got off the bike I
    > found my self instantly teleported to inside the airport terminal boarding
    > arms with all my weapons, however, when I left the airport I lost them all.
    >
    > Just thought I'd share.
    >
    > -Ian

    This is just one of those glitches, almost definitely a one off, to do
    with the accident you describe. They can be funny but of course if
    you're in the middle of a mission they make you scream
    --
    Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:422794D6.A2A71EC6@blueyonder.co.uk...
    > Ian wrote:
    >
    > They can be funny but of course if
    > you're in the middle of a mission they make you scream
    > --
    > Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
    > ------------------------------------------------------
    > Stop and Look
    > http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/


    Exactly, I just finished all the jumps in the airport when it happened. Now
    I have to run around collecting weapons again. Oh well.... Just waiting
    for SA to hit the PC....

    -Ian
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Ian wrote:
    >
    > "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:422794D6.A2A71EC6@blueyonder.co.uk...
    > > Ian wrote:
    > >
    > > They can be funny but of course if
    > > you're in the middle of a mission they make you scream
    > > --
    > > Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
    > > ------------------------------------------------------
    > > Stop and Look
    > > http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
    >
    > Exactly, I just finished all the jumps in the airport when it happened. Now
    > I have to run around collecting weapons again. Oh well.... Just waiting
    > for SA to hit the PC....
    >
    > -Ian

    well, may I suggest you collect the packages to start the game? There
    is a neat little flaw, or at least there was on the ps2 version, which
    would allow you to use a boat from the start, which means you can
    reach the other islands and even gain access to a helicopter, hence
    can collect all packages before you even do your first mission.
    --
    Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <422C8F51.F6164026@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    > well, may I suggest you collect the packages to start the game? There
    > is a neat little flaw, or at least there was on the ps2 version, which
    > would allow you to use a boat from the start, which means you can
    > reach the other islands and even gain access to a helicopter, hence
    > can collect all packages before you even do your first mission.

    Which flaw is that Paul? I've always just jumped the film studio wall
    on a PCJ, which is easy when you know how. I'd love to have boat early
    on though.


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Rob White wrote:
    >
    > In message <422C8F51.F6164026@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > > well, may I suggest you collect the packages to start the game? There
    > > is a neat little flaw, or at least there was on the ps2 version, which
    > > would allow you to use a boat from the start, which means you can
    > > reach the other islands and even gain access to a helicopter, hence
    > > can collect all packages before you even do your first mission.
    >
    > Which flaw is that Paul? I've always just jumped the film studio wall
    > on a PCJ, which is easy when you know how. I'd love to have boat early
    > on though.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Rob
    > --
    > .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    > | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    > | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

    okay, I'll do a spoiler further down.
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    spoiler.

    Find an ambulance or similar (ambulance seems to be best) and drive
    down to that dock where you go to pick up the girl for 'the party'
    drive past that gate and up to the next gate, the one which usually
    opens up later on. Of course right now it is closed. Back the
    ambulance into the gap so the tail is pressed as close as possible to
    the gates, as near to center as you can or you may fall in the water
    when you get out. Now, you need to jump up onto the ambulance, run and
    jump onto its front then onto the roof, then you're going to jump
    through the bars above the gates. There's a kind of soft spot but it
    isn't just a straight jump, you need to use your x button aswell and
    kind of quickly jump like two or three times to get through. If it is
    working you will sort of get stuck in the bars and your jumping and
    pressing x will jerk you through. Obviously you need to be careful not
    to fall off into the water. You can only reach one of the bigger
    boats, a yacht I think, from this side but all you want to do is drive
    over, the little boatyard you can buy later is a good place to land.
    and that's it, you just go find a helicopter. I try to be as careful
    as possible where I park the helicopter, specially when you're on
    small islands or rooftops as obviously if you lose it the only way to
    get home will be to die

    There is supposed to be another way, this time with a bus. There's a
    gap in the fence just to the left of those gates and you're supposed
    to be able to back a bus up to there, push it into the water and jump
    on its roof and walk round the gates, but I only tried it once, failed
    miserably.
    --
    Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <422CBA4E.E7B29B0@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    > okay, I'll do a spoiler further down. .

    Ahh yes, I remember that trick. Funnily enough a lot of the ways to get
    into the locked islands early that are documented in the Restricted
    Areas guide (www.gamefaqs.com ) I had already attempted.

    One of the things I tried at Pier 1 was to get a tall vehicle (Like an
    ambulance) into the water and then jump over to the actual pier on a
    PJC. I only ever attempted this once, but without the ambulance or
    other vehicle in the water.

    My main idea was to get all the unique jumps done before the first
    mission, like all the packages, rampages etc. If only I had the
    foresight to remember about the G-Spotlight mission <slaps head>.

    Boy did I feel dumb after spending several hours attempting the pier 1
    trick....


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    "Ian" <pocketman@gmailNOspamus.com> wrote in message
    news:0SZWd.8979$o%1.5439@fe11.lga...

    > Exactly, I just finished all the jumps in the airport when it happened.
    Now
    > I have to run around collecting weapons again. Oh well.... Just waiting
    > for SA to hit the PC....

    My stepson got it a couple of weeks ago. The way I figure it - I've waited
    this long, I might as well wait a bit longer and get the PC version with
    better graphics and fewer glitches.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Rob White wrote:
    >
    > In message <422CBA4E.E7B29B0@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > > okay, I'll do a spoiler further down. .
    >
    > Ahh yes, I remember that trick. Funnily enough a lot of the ways to get
    > into the locked islands early that are documented in the Restricted
    > Areas guide (www.gamefaqs.com ) I had already attempted.
    >
    > One of the things I tried at Pier 1 was to get a tall vehicle (Like an
    > ambulance) into the water and then jump over to the actual pier on a
    > PJC. I only ever attempted this once, but without the ambulance or
    > other vehicle in the water.
    >
    > My main idea was to get all the unique jumps done before the first
    > mission, like all the packages, rampages etc. If only I had the
    > foresight to remember about the G-Spotlight mission <slaps head>.
    >
    > Boy did I feel dumb after spending several hours attempting the pier 1
    > trick....
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Rob
    > --
    > .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    > | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    > | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

    :O) I couldn't manage anything like this in GTAIII so if you have any
    good hints I'd be more than pleased
    --
    Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:39:45 +0000, Rob White wrote:

    > In message <422CBA4E.E7B29B0@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >> okay, I'll do a spoiler further down. .
    >
    > Ahh yes, I remember that trick. Funnily enough a lot of the ways to get
    > into the locked islands early that are documented in the Restricted Areas
    > guide (www.gamefaqs.com ) I had already attempted.
    >
    > One of the things I tried at Pier 1 was to get a tall vehicle (Like an
    > ambulance) into the water and then jump over to the actual pier on a PJC.
    > I only ever attempted this once, but without the ambulance or other
    > vehicle in the water.

    all i can say is "jumping taxi"... works a treat every time.

    you could jump onto the pier. you could jump into the film studio. you
    could jump into the grounds of the mansion on starfish island and back
    onto the bridge at the other side of the island!

    > My main idea was to get all the unique jumps done before the first
    > mission, like all the packages, rampages etc. If only I had the foresight
    > to remember about the G-Spotlight mission <slaps head>.

    i managed to get the second and third jumps but not the first one (out of
    the window) i even tried to trigger that first 'g-spotlight' jump with a
    helicopter but it didn't work :-(

    i saved the .rep files (p.c. version replay files) to show people how it
    was done... you can find them at the bottom of this page:

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bryan.stevens1/save/gtavcsave.html

    > Boy did I feel dumb after spending several hours attempting the pier 1
    > trick....

    it was a good feeling going through the jump on that mission and seeing
    this message!

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bryan.stevens1/images/uj01r.jpg

    :-)
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <422CE724.3D348FDC@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    > :O) I couldn't manage anything like this in GTAIII so if you have any
    > good hints I'd be more than pleased

    My surefire method, that requires NO CHEATS (-In bold, big lettering)
    is this:

    1. Nick a medium sized car, like a taxi and drive it to the subway
    station in the Red Light District in Portland.
    2. Find the ramp that leans up right next to the subway entrance. It's
    kind of facing away from Chinatown.
    3. Drive the cab up and over the ramp and make sure it lands on it's
    roof. This might take a few attempts, so try different speeds. Slow
    is generally the best, just make sure the car is upside down.
    4. For some inexplicable reason, your upside down car will slide down
    the subway stairs and through the locked gate.
    5. When the car has stopped sliding, exit and run away before it blows
    up. Don't run towards the locked subway gate though, as it will warp
    you outside.

    That's it! You can now catch the subway to Staunton Island AND
    Shoreside Vale *AND* the game also allows you to save too. It's now
    possible to do everything non-storyline-mission-based (Except for 'Give
    Me Liberty' and 'Luigi's Girls') and complete around 60%-70% of the
    game early.

    And yes, that hidden package on the lift bridge is accessible, but
    you're going to have to master the Dodo. What I usually do is
    collect/complete everything in Portland, travel to Shoreside Vale using
    the subway trick, fly a Dodo back to Portland and complete the
    Import/Export garage. You've now got an everlasting supply of aircraft.
    the other hard to find vehicles can be found in the Fire Fighter and
    Vigilante missions, which will also save time too (Killing 20
    criminals, putting out 20 fires AND finding rare vehicles).

    Sneaky eh?


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <pan.2005.03.07.23.52.48.251227@rimmer.red-dwarf.lan>
    bryan <bryan@rimmer.red-dwarf.lan> wrote:

    > all i can say is "jumping taxi"... works a treat every time.
    >
    > you could jump onto the pier. you could jump into the film studio. you
    > could jump into the grounds of the mansion on starfish island and back
    > onto the bridge at the other side of the island!

    They jump a lot higher in VC too, I suppose I should have played around
    with it a bit more.

    I tried virtually everything to get into the other islands early with a
    combination of PJC skills and bailing-out at the right moment.
    Getting into Leaf Links was satisfying, and Starfish Island has boats
    too.


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Rob White wrote:
    >
    > In message <422CE724.3D348FDC@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > > :O) I couldn't manage anything like this in GTAIII so if you have any
    > > good hints I'd be more than pleased
    >
    > My surefire method, that requires NO CHEATS (-In bold, big lettering)
    > is this:
    >
    > 1. Nick a medium sized car, like a taxi and drive it to the subway
    > station in the Red Light District in Portland.
    > 2. Find the ramp that leans up right next to the subway entrance. It's
    > kind of facing away from Chinatown.
    > 3. Drive the cab up and over the ramp and make sure it lands on it's
    > roof. This might take a few attempts, so try different speeds. Slow
    > is generally the best, just make sure the car is upside down.
    > 4. For some inexplicable reason, your upside down car will slide down
    > the subway stairs and through the locked gate.
    > 5. When the car has stopped sliding, exit and run away before it blows
    > up. Don't run towards the locked subway gate though, as it will warp
    > you outside.
    >
    > That's it! You can now catch the subway to Staunton Island AND
    > Shoreside Vale *AND* the game also allows you to save too. It's now
    > possible to do everything non-storyline-mission-based (Except for 'Give
    > Me Liberty' and 'Luigi's Girls') and complete around 60%-70% of the
    > game early.
    >
    > And yes, that hidden package on the lift bridge is accessible, but
    > you're going to have to master the Dodo. What I usually do is
    > collect/complete everything in Portland, travel to Shoreside Vale using
    > the subway trick, fly a Dodo back to Portland and complete the
    > Import/Export garage. You've now got an everlasting supply of aircraft.
    > the other hard to find vehicles can be found in the Fire Fighter and
    > Vigilante missions, which will also save time too (Killing 20
    > criminals, putting out 20 fires AND finding rare vehicles).
    >
    > Sneaky eh?
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Rob
    > --
    > .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    > | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    > | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

    wow, cool, will have to try that one. Thanks Rob
    --
    Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Paul Heslop wrote:
    >
    > Rob White wrote:
    > >
    well, I tried the flip car thing about ten times, and ever time it
    flipped it either didn't slide or it slid down sideways and either
    righted itself or just blew up :O(
    --
    Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:09:39 +0000, Rob White wrote:

    > In message <pan.2005.03.07.23.52.48.251227@rimmer.red-dwarf.lan>
    > bryan <bryan@rimmer.red-dwarf.lan> wrote:
    >
    >> all i can say is "jumping taxi"... works a treat every time.
    >>
    >> you could jump onto the pier. you could jump into the film studio. you
    >> could jump into the grounds of the mansion on starfish island and back
    >> onto the bridge at the other side of the island!
    >
    > They jump a lot higher in VC too, I suppose I should have played around
    > with it a bit more.

    you can get some good height with taxi jumps in v.c.!

    now you mention it, what on earth is that pathetic effort you get pushing
    l3 now? i couldn't believe it when i tried to taxi jump... i thought i
    was doing something wrong.

    at least the taxis get equipped with nitro.

    > I tried virtually everything to get into the other islands early with a
    > combination of PJC skills and bailing-out at the right moment. Getting
    > into Leaf Links was satisfying, and Starfish Island has boats too.

    i was chuffed when i managed to taxi jump onto starfish island _and_ jump
    off the other side... i'd never seen it documented and thought to myself,
    "hurrah! i've done something original in v.c.!" :-)
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <422E3A36.E447A86A@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    > wow, cool, will have to try that one. Thanks Rob

    No problemo.

    I forgot to mention, it's easier to get to the Ghost Town from
    Portland. Take off on the concrete promenade that's near your Portland
    safe house and fly straight. You'll go straight through the mountains
    and see an invisible road on your HUD map. Turn a bit to the left there
    and the GT should pop up.

    Incidentally, if you carry on following the invisible road, you'll
    start to see loads of fake town names popping up on the map that were
    left in by the developers.


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <422E65F3.D573A118@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    > well, I tried the flip car thing about ten times, and ever time it
    > flipped it either didn't slide or it slid down sideways and either
    > righted itself or just blew up :O(

    Tried and tested: Keep the car going fast enough get up the ramp but
    brake right at the top just before it topples over. The physics system
    should then tip the front end over. You could try using a smaller car
    too.


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Rob White wrote:
    >
    > In message <422E65F3.D573A118@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > > well, I tried the flip car thing about ten times, and ever time it
    > > flipped it either didn't slide or it slid down sideways and either
    > > righted itself or just blew up :O(
    >
    > Tried and tested: Keep the car going fast enough get up the ramp but
    > brake right at the top just before it topples over. The physics system
    > should then tip the front end over. You could try using a smaller car
    > too.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Rob
    > --
    > .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    > | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    > | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

    I'll have another go. which taxi btw? the square one keeps landing the
    wrong way up but only slid once before exploding
    --
    Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Rob White wrote:
    >
    > In message <422E3A36.E447A86A@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > > wow, cool, will have to try that one. Thanks Rob
    >
    > No problemo.
    >
    > I forgot to mention, it's easier to get to the Ghost Town from
    > Portland. Take off on the concrete promenade that's near your Portland
    > safe house and fly straight. You'll go straight through the mountains
    > and see an invisible road on your HUD map. Turn a bit to the left there
    > and the GT should pop up.
    >
    > Incidentally, if you carry on following the invisible road, you'll
    > start to see loads of fake town names popping up on the map that were
    > left in by the developers.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Rob
    > --
    > .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    > | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    > | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

    even cooler!
    --
    Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    In message <422F3436.7D553D8E@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    > I'll have another go. which taxi btw? the square one keeps landing the
    > wrong way up but only slid once before exploding

    It works easiest with the Cabbie or the special Cab, as they're more
    curved. It should really work with any mid-size car. Are you using the
    PC or PS2 version?


    Cheers,
    Rob
    --
    ..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

    Rob White wrote:
    >
    > In message <422F3436.7D553D8E@blueyonder.co.uk>
    > Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > > I'll have another go. which taxi btw? the square one keeps landing the
    > > wrong way up but only slid once before exploding
    >
    > It works easiest with the Cabbie or the special Cab, as they're more
    > curved. It should really work with any mid-size car. Are you using the
    > PC or PS2 version?
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Rob
    > --
    > .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
    > | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
    > | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

    ps2... I haven't found a cabbie on but I thought it might be that so
    I'll keep looking...

    Just got GT4... loyalties torn :O)

    --
    Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Stop and Look
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
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