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Question of the Day-Morality defined

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  • Religion
Last response: in News & Leisure
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March 4, 2012 12:56:26 PM

Is it better to do the right thing for the wrong reasons?
or
to do the wrong thing for the right reasons?

More about : question day morality defined

March 5, 2012 12:14:40 PM

If you do the right thing, can the reason be wrong?
March 5, 2012 12:19:09 PM

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Its also a very subjective question. Did Hitler think he was doing anything wrong? He probably thought he was doing the right thing the right way.
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March 5, 2012 12:43:03 PM

I am going to use two examples

right thing/wrong reason-
a police officer who is in it for the gun/badge/car power trip but saves people every day

wrong thing/right reason-
the mother of two kids who strips/prostitutes so her kids can have food/shelter and some nice things

so using those two examples what do you folks think?
March 5, 2012 1:08:22 PM

Try reading "Lila: an inquiry into morals" by Robert Pirsig.

It won't help you in the slightest i imagine but i really enjoyed it.
March 5, 2012 2:02:58 PM

wanamingo said:
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Its also a very subjective question. Did Hitler think he was doing anything wrong? He probably thought he was doing the right thing the right way.



Does 'thinking' it is the right thing to do make it right? You're right, very subjective question. Who decides what is right?
March 5, 2012 3:58:40 PM

I actually think that this is a trick question

the answer according to me is that both are wrong

only doing the right thing for the right reasons is the "right" thing

but the world isnt black and white all the time

there is alot of shades of gray

compromises we make daily to survive in this world

the best thing IMHO is to always keep in mind with any decision is "Am I hurting anybody esle?"

as far as hurting yourself that is your own business

it is your life and only your own to live

who am I or anybody else to say that if you are living it right?

by society's standards? Hah!

by the worlds standards almost any atrocity is allowed

Every day there is genocide,human rights being abused,human trafficking etc

Only God can judge me
March 5, 2012 5:05:16 PM

king smp said:


Only God can judge me



When God is systematically removed from society, then man becomes the 'judge'.
March 5, 2012 5:17:15 PM

Without fear there is no wisdom

Fear of God
Fear of Police
Fear of Parents
Fear of Teachers
and so on

all of it is being removed

no more corporal punishment in the schools
no more officer walking the beat with a nightstick and teaching young punks a lesson
no more parents spanking their children
no more fear of Hell which leads to no sense of right or wrong

without fear our society is going to fall apart even more

Repent now ye sinners for the end of times draws near

It doesnt matter if you are Christian,Jewish,Islamic,Buddhist,Tao etc
as long as you have faith
faith in a higher state of being
faith in goodness
having a set of rules to live your life by

is it any coincidence that God spelled backwards is dog?

without faith in God
then man becomes no better than an animal
only living to breed,eat and crap
with no morals or ethics

Satan or evil is about living your life as an animal with no regard for others
March 5, 2012 5:23:17 PM

king smp said:
Without fear there is no wisdom

Fear of God
Fear of Police
Fear of Parents
Fear of Teachers
and so on

all of it is being removed

no more corporal punishment in the schools
no more officer walking the beat with a nightstick and teaching young punks a lesson
no more parents spanking their children
no more fear of Hell which leads to no sense of right or wrong

without fear our society is going to fall apart even more

Repent now ye sinners for the end of times draws near

It doesnt matter if you are Christian,Jewish,Islamic,Buddhist,Tao etc
as long as you have faith
faith in a higher state of being
faith in goodness
having a set of rules to live your life by

is it any coincidence that God spelled backwards is dog?

without faith in God
then man becomes no better than an animal
only living to breed,eat and crap
with no morals or ethics

Satan or evil is about living your life as an animal with no regard for others


“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
March 5, 2012 6:07:42 PM

without no fear of punishment comes no sense of right or wrong
without fear of jail there is crime
without fear of discipline there is no respect for the parent


The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
- proverbs 9:10

you can use your Star Wars mythology that has been around since the 70s
I will stick with a book that has been around for over 2000 years :) 
March 5, 2012 6:14:01 PM

scientists still debate how old "Star wars" is.... The best guess is a long time ago and most likely in a far away galaxy.

The bible is a very hard book to follow and so many odd rules.......

I just want a wookie partner and make the kessel run in 12 parsecs..... But I would settle for an ewok and a landspeeder.
March 5, 2012 6:17:33 PM

hee hee hee

I wanted a X-wing fighter sooo bad when I was 8 yrs old (1978)
I even had a dream that one landed in my grandmas yard
and it was mine

Might just be the best dream I ever had......
March 5, 2012 6:18:34 PM

oh and Princess Lea in that outfit

that was another great dream when I was older LOL
March 5, 2012 9:33:55 PM

My patented Armadillo helmets will protect you from lightnings strikes should god (or the aliens) become unhappy with you.

Problem is my remaining stock is stuck in the back room of a dental surgery in Detroit ...

Bit like the Iran oil problem ... good luck with that.
March 6, 2012 12:43:27 AM

Oh well I guess I have to settle for the standard issue aluminum foil helmet
March 6, 2012 8:55:47 AM

They only work with the longer wavelengths and sadly actually improve conduction in terms of lightning ... hence my patented hats have a powerful dialectric medium between the primary and secondary reflectors which attenuate both alien mind waves and electricity.

I was going to ask crashman to benchtest my helmet here at toms.

Sadly he has not returned my PM's lately on this subject.

I think he must be really busy.

/um ...

;) 
March 6, 2012 12:41:41 PM

Hmmm maybe a lead helmet covered in aluminum that you can ground to nearby earth sources?
March 7, 2012 12:03:10 PM

You should not consider becoming an electrician ... nor should you continue the practice of testing whether electricity is travelling through the wires by putting the ends on your tongue.

The consequences are ... well you already know don't you ??

:) 
March 7, 2012 1:01:07 PM

yea after years of AC and DC electrical classes you would think that I would know you shouldnt be grounded in case of lightning strike wouldnt you? LMAO :) 
March 8, 2012 5:53:52 PM

wanamingo said:
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Its also a very subjective question. Did Hitler think he was doing anything wrong? He probably thought he was doing the right thing the right way.


Godwin's Law invoked.
March 8, 2012 7:13:40 PM

actually in this instance the Nazi comparison however overplayed is fair enough

who determines what the right reasons

my right reasons for doing something might be wrong reasons to you
and who to say who is right

I guess you can use a sociological verison of right and wrong based on societies norms
or a religious framework

me personally I judge what I do by my belief in Christianity and Jesus


What would Jesus do?
March 8, 2012 9:37:13 PM

As a "minor deity" I an unhindered by any moral-religious framework and simply able to make my own decisions most of the time ...

Occasionaly I do need to consult my "supreme overlord mistress" ... that is the wife ... but I can ignore her at my peril.

I find this works for me.

Mind you I have a lot of books on religions and have read widely ... I just have not found one which convinces me that my way isn't the right one.

I don't need an afterlife insureance policy.

If I die and there is in fact a heaven I shall simply level a decent plot of land next door and setup some competition by building a better Disneyworld, and attract better looking hookers, and getting the brewery site plans on track.
March 8, 2012 10:19:29 PM

From the sound of it you would be attracting more clientel from the far south of you than from Heaven LOL

Welcome to Hell
Would you like a season pass?
March 10, 2012 11:34:38 AM

You should know by now I wouldn't discriminate so all will be welcome.

mingo will be in charge of the police and oldmangamer will by the mayor.

I'll be busy with the brewery and entertainment ...
March 10, 2012 2:41:35 PM

Can I be the Village Idiot?

As an official card carrying member of the local Idiot Guild I deserve this
And I pay my annual fee four times a year loyally
I feel that I am utmost qualified to be the most competent fool in the afterlife
My track record stands for itself
March 11, 2012 1:43:00 PM

You will face stiff competition from mal and doggy tho ...are you sure you want to go the extra mile?

March 11, 2012 4:40:09 PM

Hey dont go disrespecting my friend Mal
he can be rough around the edges but is a great guy
definitlley not in the same idiot class as me
I am a special kind of Idiot
My Mommy tells me I am special all the time
and handsome too.......
March 12, 2012 9:11:51 AM

king smp said:

I guess you can use a sociological verison of right and wrong based on societies norms
or a religious framework

me personally I judge what I do by my belief in Christianity and Jesus

Pre-American Civil War social norms in the South gave the OK to slavery.

And they were mostly Christians.
March 12, 2012 11:00:05 AM

king smp said:
Hey dont go disrespecting my friend Mal
he can be rough around the edges but is a great guy
definitlley not in the same idiot class as me
I am a special kind of Idiot
My Mommy tells me I am special all the time
and handsome too.......


Don't worry ... we will take care of you here.

/prepares shot of flupenthixol.

:) 
March 12, 2012 11:42:23 AM

jsc said:
Pre-American Civil War social norms in the South gave the OK to slavery.

And they were mostly Christians.


It wasn't just in the south. At one point all the northern states had slaves too.
March 12, 2012 12:53:31 PM

"Rightness"/"wrongness" is in the eye of the beholder. Morality is not so easily defined. There are a near infinite number of factors that affect morality, such as viewing via cultural norms, religious beliefs and proactives, and laws and regulations, just to name a few.

This is the type of discussion that requires several rounds of good beer and pizza in order to digest the subject matter properly.
March 12, 2012 1:01:23 PM

Yes I agree.
March 12, 2012 2:47:38 PM

Reynod said:
Don't worry ... we will take care of you here.

/prepares shot of flupenthixol.

:) 



No thanks
I take 3mg of Risperdal/Risperdone a night already
that is my cup of tea as far as antipyschotic meds goes
also take 2000mg of Depakote ER for mood balancing

Bipolar is not an illness
it is the next step in human evolution
March 12, 2012 2:50:46 PM

COLGeek said:
"Rightness"/"wrongness" is in the eye of the beholder. Morality is not so easily defined. There are a near infinite number of factors that affect morality, such as viewing via cultural norms, religious beliefs and proactives, and laws and regulations, just to name a few.

This is the type of discussion that requires several rounds of good beer and pizza in order to digest the subject matter properly.



very well stated

Here is one for you
if your God's law says that an act is right but goes against Man's law
then how do you decide which is right?
March 12, 2012 3:07:52 PM

king smp said:
very well stated

Here is one for you
if your God's law says that an act is right but goes against Man's law
then how do you decide which is right?

Wow, not enough beer and pizza yet for that one......

Let's see, face eternal damnation (for those beliefs that subscribe to such) or go to prison and face another sort of hell. That is indeed quite the quandry.

I would argue that if your faith puts you into that sort of dilemma, then you might be following the wrong faith (or living in the wrong community).

Lovely topic to discuss. No?
March 12, 2012 3:17:37 PM

I would have to agree that usually God's law (from my Christian viewpoint)
normally will coincide with man's law

the problem is that one culture's morals can differ from another
but I feel that there is a higher set of morals above a societies definition

for instance

It is wrong to kill/hurt unless in self defense or war
It is wrong to lie
It is wrong to steal
That you have an obligation to protect and help the weak and helpless like women,children and elderly



these are a basic set of morals that go back to the dawn of mankind
no matter what man's law is; these laws of humanity prevail



March 12, 2012 3:28:25 PM

king smp said:
I would have to agree that usually God's law (from my Christian viewpoint)
normally will coincide with man's law

the problem is that one culture's morals can differ from another
but I feel that there is a higher set of morals above a societies definition

for instance

It is wrong to kill/hurt unless in self defense or war
It is wrong to lie
It is wrong to steal
That you have an obligation to protect and help the weak and helpless like women,children and elderly



these are a basic set of morals that go back to the dawn of mankind
no matter what man's law is; these laws of humanity prevail

I agree with your basic premise. The harder issue for this is in dealing with defining these things in the context of beliefs. Some religions would argue that causing harm to a non-believer is different than harming a believer. Sames holds true for lying, cheating, and stealing.

Beliefs towards the weak, the helpless, the elderly, women, child, cats, dogs, etc are often clouded by beliefs as well and no degree of arguing one's viewpoint will change that of others.

This topic is very subjective, can't be quantified, and often leads to highly emotional (sometimes irrational) responses. That too is a matter of faith for some and should be a cause of concern for us all. Think about it.
March 12, 2012 3:35:10 PM

king smp said:

for instance

It is wrong to kill/hurt unless in self defense or war
It is wrong to lie
It is wrong to steal


Most people lie multiple times a day regardless of their intentions. To intentionally lie to misguide or misconstrue for a determined benefit...

Is war considered self defense? Your freedom of speech is an attack on my beliefs, in which I must kill you because your speech is in direct threat to my person. While not physically harming me, you are presenting outside information that goes against what I believe and therefore is an attack on my psyche.

To steal means you claim ownership over something that is never truly yours. How can you claim ownership to something that isn't yours in the first place? You may have temporary possession of such items and things, but they are never yours. As one such member used quite often in paraphrase, "I never stole anything. I liberated and reallocated."
March 12, 2012 4:08:15 PM

Look at the 90 young people that were recently stoned to death in Iraq for having "Emo" haircuts and clothes. It was considered the "right thing" by the minister who ordered their persecution.

So, it is "right" in their culture, but obviously very wrong in our culture.
March 12, 2012 4:09:39 PM

There is a book called "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mechanics"
good read
in this book the author sets out to define "quality"
as in what makes one piece of artwork beautiful and another ugly

came down to innate goodness in a man will define the quality of the item he produces
if a man is spiritual (not necessarily religious) and a good man
then his caring for the world will show in the items he creates

What the world needs is more old fashioned quality craftmanship
not mass produced souless artifacts

March 12, 2012 4:12:24 PM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
Look at the 90 young people that were recently stoned to death in Iraq for having "Emo" haircuts and clothes. It was considered the "right thing" by the minister who ordered their persecution.

So, it is "right" in their culture, but obviously very wrong in our culture.




the problem is that once a set of laws are defined to encompass the whole world
and enforced by a world police organization
then you have the beginning of a one world order
probably not a good thing.....
March 12, 2012 5:35:11 PM

The problem is that once a set of laws are defined to encompass the whole world and enforced by a world police organization, then you have the beginning of a one world order. [This is] probably not a good thing.....

So much easier to read.
March 12, 2012 5:36:27 PM

king smp said:
There is a book called "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mechanics"
good read
in this book the author sets out to define "quality"
as in what makes one piece of artwork beautiful and another ugly

came down to innate goodness in a man will define the quality of the item he produces
if a man is spiritual (not necessarily religious) and a good man
then his caring for the world will show in the items he creates

What the world needs is more old fashioned quality craftmanship
not mass produced souless artifacts


I need to point this out. :) 

You argue about the lack of craftsmanship in the very same breath that you butcher the English grammar system. :hello: 
March 12, 2012 5:51:43 PM

@riser I am sorry you have a problem with my grammatical style but please dont come on one of my threads correcting me like some frustrated high shool english teacher.
If you feel the need to correct my grammar then please PM me and we can have a calm discussion but I feel that as a community reporter you are out of line.
Did I offend you in some prior thread and you have a personal vendetta against me?
March 12, 2012 5:57:47 PM

Yeah riser, ease up man. Maybe he is having a bad day?
March 13, 2012 2:38:48 AM

riser might be a bit passionate about the literary classics I guess king.

ZATAOMM is a must read for philosophy and anthropology (of travel) but his second book "Lila ..." puts the work into much more perspective.

March 13, 2012 3:26:15 AM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I will state once again that if somebody doesnt like my writing style then dont read my posts

similar to media in USA
if you dont like a show then change the channel


I do not read anything besides technical articles and news stories on the Web anymore
I havent read anything fictional other than some short stories.for years
I use to be an avid reader but mostly of pulp fiction like Asimov,Harlan Ellison,Piers Anthony,King,Clive Barker etc
I am not very classically read.
Of course I have read Thoreau, Poe,Twain,Trumbo,Hemingway,Shakespeare but never
delved into anything heavy like War and Peace LOL
In forums I use a shorthand style of writing to convey many ideas into the least amount of sentences and to avoid walls of text
Trying to explain complicated technical procedures while using a more proper grammatical style isnt really feasible.
So I skip some pronouns and end with propositions LOL :) 
I didnt know I was going to be graded LMAO
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