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AMD 2500+ Barton ? (Multiplier locked?) 11x ?

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December 12, 2004 2:36:06 PM

I cannot change the multiplier, i changed it to 11.5, 12.0x etc, but it stays at 11.x . Anyone know how to unlock this ? or whats going on ?
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a b K Overclocking
December 13, 2004 3:05:49 AM

There's a guy in the Classifieds forum looking to trade his Mobile XP2400+ for a CPU like yours. The Mobile cores are higher quality (better overclocking) and unlocked, but he found out his new board doesn't support multiplier adjustment and defaults his CPU to the lowest available multiplier.

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December 13, 2004 8:35:08 PM

AMD has been locking XP's since May 03, correct? Got my XP in December 02, and it was unlocked. It was a short while after I got mine.
December 24, 2004 4:24:27 PM

I think the L5 cache got severed. Just bought that chip?

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
December 24, 2004 7:02:40 PM

Changing to mobile does not unlock the processors. It only enables the soft multipliers. Some boards don't support soft multiplier multipliers at all (nForce 1 and 2 don't). Some boards POST at default speed but only allow you lower the multiplier not raise it. Other boards don't POST at all because because they attempt to POST at max multiplier (24X with desktop processors). To overcome this you can alter L6 bridges to lower the max multiplier. Once you do get your CPU to POST then soft multipliers are limited to the max multiplier you set. On most boards you need a special utility to enable the soft multipliers and a diffenerent utility to set it.

In summary, the desktop to mobile mod is very chancy requiring some dicy bridge mods to your CPU.

<b>A mind is a terrible thing</b>
December 25, 2004 5:11:50 PM

hi,

what is this stuff about POSTING? and how can i tell if my cpu has POSTED? bcoz i just got an athlon mobile 2600 and my computer keeps running it at x15 (the highest my mobo will go) and it wont let me lower it :S. it changes in the bios (to x11) but then i load it up into windows and it still is at x15 then i go back into bios and it is still at x11

thanks

matt
December 25, 2004 7:10:02 PM

POST=Power On Self Test. When one says "POST" or "POSTing", like a verb, one simply means the system actually completes the POST and goes on to load Windows, or Linux, etc. "POSTing" is just an abbreviates way of saying it.

If a system does POST that it's usually easy to diagnose a problem than when it fails the POST

As for problems you are having with your mobile 2600, what motherboard do you own?

If your max selectable multiplier is 15X I'm guessing you have a legacy motherboard. If it happens to have a VIA chipset be aware that many people run into issues trying to overclock CPUs with high multipliers, 13X and above, on those motherboard (me included). If you do have a legacy VIA chipset then try 9X and see what it does. A lot VIA motherboards will work at default multiplier and they will work at 17X (9X in BIOs) but no other multipliers work without applying workarounds (wiremods). Give 9X try.

A second test with legacy VIA mobos is to try with FSB at 100 Mhz (200). Generally all the high multipliers, 13x - 24X, will work with 100 Mhz FSB even though they won't at 133Mhz and higher.

Give those two tests a try and based on your results we'll go from there.

<b>A mind is a terrible thing</b>
December 25, 2004 7:39:59 PM

hi,

thanks for explaining posting for me.

my system is posting fine and i can easily get into windows

my mobo is an MSI KT3V series MS-6712 and it is a VIA chipset

the weird thing is that i cant actaully turn down the multiplier. it appears that i am turning it down (for example to x9) in the bios but when i boot into windows it still shows that i am using a x15 multiplier in cpuz. then when i restart and go back into the bios it will say it is on x9 multiplier again.

i am currently writing to you with 133fsb and x15 multiplier which is abit strange from what you say but it is running perfectly.

also you mention 13-24x however mine only goes up to a maximum of 15x in the bios

is there a way that i can enforce the multiplier that is in bios? or why is it always switching to 15x in windows?
December 26, 2004 3:16:07 AM

I'm confused by what you are saying.

When you set your multiplier to 9X what CPU speed do you see at POST time?

If your motherboard has full control of high multipliers then it should POST at 9 x 133 Mhz = 1200 Mhz.

If your motherboard doesn't have full control then then 9X will get tranlated as 17X. It will show as 9X in BIOS but your CPU will try to POST at 17 x 133 = 2167 Mhz or at 17 x 100 = 1700 Mhz.

Those are the three expected results of setting 9x but what do you see?

Secondly, did you try my other test? Set FSB to 100 (200) Mhz and see if you get different behavior than when you use 133 (266) Mhz FSB.

There are people using real XP-M's with various legacy VIA chipsets. Some of those people are able to use BIOS multipliers no problem. However, others get behavior like you, and many get no POST.

Some other things you can try.

- update to the latest BIOS for your motherboard.
- try soft multipliers combined with soft FSB (see <A HREF="http://fab51.com/cpu/barton/athlon-e24.html" target="_new">Fab51.com article on soft multipliers</A>
- set multiplier via wire mods.




<b>A mind is a terrible thing</b>
December 26, 2004 4:00:06 PM

hi,

i cant usually see what it posts as but basically when i get into cpuz what ever multiplier i put into the bios it will show that the cpu is using x15 multiplier so when the fsb is set as 133 i see none of your 3 predicted results and cpuz shows 133 fsb x15 multiplier = 2.0ghz

i tried your other test of setting fsb to 100 and this had no effect as i still could not alter the multiplier in bios and it always showed up as x15 in cpuz whatever value i selected in the BIOS

i have already updated my mobo bios and this did not help . I had a look at the fab51 link you gave me and i have a few questions to ask you about softmodding as i would not like to use a wire mod (if wire modding is what i think it is and actaully modding the hardware itself i.e. with wires).

-How risky is soft modding compared to other ways of overclocking?
-can i soft mod the multiplier and adjust the fsb in the bios or am i forced to either do everything in the bios or everything through a soft mod?
-is it worth risking a soft mod just to get the lower multiplier than 15 and how much would i gain in terms of overclocking by using a lower multiplier? (bear in mind that i only have pc2700 ram so this will limit me to 166fsb anyway and also that my mobo only alows me a voltage between 1.550 - 1.675)

thanks

matt
December 27, 2004 6:31:54 PM

<b>[warning - long post]</b>
Quote:
i cant usually see what it posts as but basically when i get into cpuz what ever multiplier i put into the bios it will show that the cpu is using x15 multiplier so when the fsb is set as 133 i see none of your 3 predicted results and cpuz shows 133 fsb x15 multiplier = 2.0ghz

I can only assume that your motherboard, the MSI KT3V, is similar to MSI KT3 Ultra, which is listed as Type 2 under Fab51's table (see the article for the full exlanation). Type 2 motherboards treat mobiles in a peculiar way. Instead of POSTing using the CPU's default multiplier, encoded by the L3 bridges on the CPU, they instead POST using the mobile Max Multiplier which is encoded on the L6 bridges.

While owners of Type 1 motherboards generally can change their BIOS multipliers at will when using mobile XPs and without difficulty owners of Type 2 motherboards can't.

Quote:
-How risky is soft modding compared to other ways of overclocking?

It's not really mod'ing. Soft multipliers, short for adjusting multipliers by way of software, is a feature of mobile processors. The trick is doing it with a desktop motherboard which was never intended to perform that task.

There's not much risk, though. You can still push a CPU too far which will then crash. The risk is not any greater than overclocking by other means.
Quote:
-can i soft mod the multiplier and adjust the fsb in the bios or am i forced to either do everything in the bios or everything through a soft mod?

No, not in BIOS. The soft multipliers are done after the system boots, in Windows. The FAB51 articles discusses how to change multipliers only.

Changing FSB on the fly is an older technique and easily done with most desktop motherboards. You can do it with old school programs like SoftFSB and SetFSB. You need a version customized for your motherboard's clock generator chip or have the appropriate plugin to do the same thing.

Not sure but I think there are utilities that can do both the soft multipliers and change FSB from the one application.
Quote:
-is it worth risking a soft mod just to get the lower multiplier than 15 and how much would i gain in terms of overclocking by using a lower multiplier? (bear in mind that i only have pc2700 ram so this will limit me to 166fsb anyway and also that my mobo only alows me a voltage between 1.550 - 1.675)

The reason you would want to lower the multiplier is so you can raise FSB all while keeping your CPU within it's upper limit of overclocking.

Yes, PC2700 would imply a limit on FSB. You can go to 166 Mhz FSB while keeping your memory within specifications or you could risk overclocking your memory (not recommended). It's up to you.

While we are on the subject of raising FSB have you tried to do this in BIOS setup? You say your system POSTs at 15 x 133 = 2000 Mhz. This gives you a fair amount of overclocking headroom. 15 x 166 would get you to 2500 Mhz.

1.675 volts as an upper limit would make substantial overclocking difficult. Obviously you have one of those BIOSes that limits the voltage relative to the CPU's default voltage. For example, install a 1.5 volt CPU into one motherboard and the BIOS limits max to 1.6 volt but stick a 1.75 volt processor into the same motherboard and the upper limit might be 1.85 volt. For both CPUs the BIOS allows VCore to be increase just 0.1 volt above each CPU's default voltage but not higher.

For motherboards that don't allow higher voltages or don't allow voltage changes there are fixes. The fixes involve modifications (which you say you aren't willing to do). Wiremods on the CPU or socket can be done to fool the motherboard into thinking the default voltage is higher, up to 1.85 volt. You can also change the L11 bridges on the CPU for similar results. Lastly, you can make alterations (involves soldering) to the motherboard to get voltages up to 2.0 volt and higher, depending on the motherboard and the particular modification.

<b>A mind is a terrible thing</b>
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