Car advice?

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I'm looking at a new car in the 10K-12K range. As for new cars I've been looking at the <A HREF="http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?make=FO&modelid=85&acode=USB30FOC121B0&zipcode=95831&restore=false" target="_new">Ford Focus</A> today. I went to Borders and it seems that only the Civic can really hold anything over it, but it's a lot more expensive to get the same options. Other competitors are the Kia's (not the greatest car at all but the warranty is awesome), Mazda Protige, Hyundai cars, and anything else I might have missed.

I like Red, I'm now single, but I'd much rather save money towards a house than spend more money than this on a car.

Any ideas? New, used, but dependable with good gas mileage. A used car obviously can't be beat on or have a ton of mileage. I was looking at the Celica since getting one a couple years old would leave me room to play with it down the road. Check out this <A HREF="http://body-kits.com/kaminari/celica4.htm" target="_new">kaminari body kit</A>. Unfortionately I think I'd sink too much money into the thing if I went that route.

Scammy, don't go off on me about the BMW M3 and the Nissan 240SX. :)

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I've had my best reliability with a Cavalier, drove one for 4 or 5 years and only replaced one $15 ignition coil, along with a few tires, brake pads, a tailpipe, some oil changes, etc.

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Reply to Crashman
- 0 +

Wow that's a broad range of cars you have there... I'll throw in my two cents, but I'm only going to touch on new cars that I am somewhat familiar with. Can't really comment on used cars as a whole. You might find a decent one, then again, it might break down after so many miles. All depends on the individual car and how it has been cared for.

Anyway, I myself drive a 2000 Mazda Protege ES as my daily driver (my other car being an RX-7). <A HREF="http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=3113&page_number=1" target="_new">Car and Driver's opinions on the Protege</A> were enough to seal the deal after I test drove one. If you aren't familiar with C/D, I put about as much weight on their opinions of cars as I do THG's opinions on computer gear. They really know their stuff, and they favor cars that are fun to drive, like me. They have consistently rated the Protege as one of the best in it's class, the afore-mentioned "fun-to-drive" factor being a large part of that. It has won 2 of their comparison tests, and has been nominated as one of their annual "10-best" cars several times, although it never won. However, I have never found my Protege lacking, and have not once regretted my purchase.

The Ford Focus is also a great choice. I've never driven one myself, but C/D has awarded the Focus as one of the 10-best cars of the year for the last three years running. I don't care much for the styling, but if its your thing, you'll surely be happy with one. Also it's a bit less expensive than a Protege, which was one of the main reasons it has been a 10-best car for so long.

The Civic is not a bad choice, I guess. But like you said, they can get expensive when you add the options on. Personally I have never cared much for Civics. They just feel like little buzzy toys compared to my Protege. Plus, I wouldn't want to be associated in any way with those slammed, rollerskated, pimped-out rice rockets that people like to turn Civics into. What an utter waste of money. If you want to soup up a car, at LEAST start with a real car. Like they say, you can't polish a turd.

Anyway, I would avoid the Kia. They have a great warranty, but its probably one you are very likely to use. Kia's simply are not quality vehicles... yet. Hyundai was synonomous with poor quality when they first came out, but now they are pretty decent. Kia is apparently still struggling. I've never owned or driven a Kia, but of all the people I know who have bought one, and that is actually quite a few, none have been happy with it. That can't be a good thing. Also they consistently rank dead last in any C/D comparisons. Although recently, the Kia Optima was ranked 9th out of 10, above the Saturn L200. So avoid Saturns too, lol.

Speaking of Hyundais, they really aren't bad. There might still be some stigma attached to the name, but all in all, as cars, they are pretty nice, and of respectable quality. Won't win you any streetlight drag races or any second glances from the chicks, but as transportation, they are pretty solid.

Other than that, I recommend checking out the <A HREF="http://www.caranddriver.com" target="_new">Car and Driver</A> site and searching for any info about any cars you may be considering. Here is a <A HREF="http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=2505&page_number=1" target="_new">November 2000 comparison of 10 sedans in the $16k price range</A>, for instance. The Kia Spectra was dead last, the Protege won, and the Hyundai Elantra was a respectable second place. The Ford Focus sedan was 4th, but I don't think that's the same model that has won the 10-best award.

Anyway, good luck! And let us know what you decide on. I'm just as much a car nut as I am a computer nut, so I'd like to know! :tongue:

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Reply to Syndil

I've had:

Ford Capri - It was old and it didn't last, not much of a test.

Vauxhall Cavalier - Not a fanny magnet (UK use of the word fanny here) but it was reliable.

Peugeot - Don't go there!

Toyota Celica/Supra - A ripper, but again old, and eventually the running costs for parts outweighed the point in running it.

Current one is a Toyota Corolla. It has excellent milage, it's quite nippy, and can hold 4 folk and a resonable amount of luggage for it's size. A good all rounder, and as you say, you're single so you don't worry about all the luggage. :smile:

It's a 2001, 1.6 VVTI BTW. Every year Toyota seem to change the Corolla. I'm hoping to get 10 decent years out of it (or maybe get rich and replace it), and guess it could do 5 more with good care and attention.

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Reply to camieabz

I would reccomend a early 90's Holden Commodore.
There are heaps of em about, common as much, parts are cheap, servicing is easy and they get decent milage on the 3.8L Ecotec V6.

Only problem is they are a tad rare in America/Canada :lol:

<b><i>"Why don't you try practicing random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control?"</b></i> :eek:

Reply to lhgpoobaa
- 0 +

Well...look for a Passat or Jetta...You won't be sorry. You'd probably have to get a 2000 or 1999 but you can still find them with low miles. Doh!!! what am I thinking!?! YOu live in So Cal right? Get a restored bug convertible. I have one and I turn heads everywhere I go. Girls love it...they will what to drive it...and kids like them to. They are not super reliable, but they are dirt cheap to work on and repair.

Get your own sig!!! :tongue:

Reply to Grub
- 0 +

I'd say go Pontiac.

Pontiac has never done me wrong

It's all good ^_^

Reply to namek0

With used car prices so depressed right now - a good mid to late 90's Nissan or Toyota can be had at a great price. I'll admit that it's hard to buy the foreign brands but honestly, most are manufactured in the US. You'd be employing US auto workers. My g/f has a 96 used Nissan Altima and the thing is solid - I just change the oil and some plugs/cap/rotor, etc - and keeps on running strong. I don't trust old Fords. Just my 2 cents.

BTW - Isn't Crashmans new sig kind of scary?

<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes
- 0 +

Dude, do not get a Focus. They are the biggest piece of crap car in recent years. They are so bad that they actually had a problem with the windshield wipers catching on fire when they got wet (I'm not joking). From the first model years they've had about 12 recalls. Stay away from them like the plauge.

Did you want to buy new, or used? What are really nice cars are the new Toyota Corollas, but they're a bit more at about $15k. You could get an Echo for about $11k, but they're pretty small and I don't care too much for the styling.

Celica's are really nice. It wouldn't be too hard to find a 2001 180hp Celica GTS with the aggressibe body kit for around $12k. They look and drive wicked.

Other cars to look at would be a Nissan Sentra SE-R SpecV. You could prolly find a used 2002 for around $14k. They're pretty nice. Or, you might get a used regular Sentra for around $12k for a 2002.

The thing about getting a Kia is that you'll be getting a Kia. It's like:

Dude: "Hey man, what car you drive?"
You: "Kia Rio."
Dude: *snickers* and kicks your ballsack.

Unless you don't care. Kia's and Hyundai's (same company by the way) do come with 10 year warranties, but how comprehensive they are I don't know. You might find out that all it covers is engine and transmission, and the whole rest of the car can fall apart and you're screwed.

A good site to look at is <A HREF="http://www.alldata.com" target="_new">http://www.alldata.com</A> and look at the "Recalls and Technical Service Bulletins" section. It will give you good insight on how reliable a car you are getting, so it's well worth it. Good luck!

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Reply to ksoth

Quote :

I would reccomend a early 90's Holden Commodore.


PooBaa - What the hell is a Holden Commodore? I seriously doubt that we would allow such a beast into this country.



<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Knowing Poobaa and his old cars, it'll prolly be 1890s too!

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Reply to camieabz
- 0 +

Holden is General Motors' Australian division.

-------------------------------------------
<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

Reply to ksoth
- 0 +

I think it's 10 years Powertrain, and 5 years bumper to bumper on Kia.

I gotta go test drive now.

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Reply to dhlucke

240sx, mr2, M3, 850, supra, 300zx... get one of those and you'll have more girls than you can fit in the car... it would suck with the mr2... small heh heh. it would be kick ass if you could do a wrx man... damn. vw makes some good [-peep-] too. those are a few choices so i hope you can find a good deal among one of them. they have real good resale value too so you won't lose that much money when you go to sell it. maybe you've guess it that i'm against buying a new car by now.

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Reply to scamtrOn

I love'm both but my only complaint is that it feels like u r sitting on a cement bench in a park if u r in the back seat

Reply to chandanarahul

Can't go wrong with a Honda Civic. Only cars I know that consistently last over 200K miles!

But, if you plan to replace it within a couple years, any choice is fine. You've obviously done some research.

Hyndai sounds a bit iffy to me since they're Korean made, but I don't have any experience with them. My family has owned Toyota, Dodge, and Nissan cars; and they're all great.

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Reply to Anonymous
- 0 +

look at those low milage cars. www.carmax.com www.hertzcarsales.com They were all inspected before they hit the lot, if they fail, they would be at the auctions. Dad had a '92 cavailer and after 130k, the engine failed.

Reply to Howard

SoCal? Dude, get a beater and a used Ducati bike. You can get both for under 12K no prob. And even if chicks know nothing about bikes, they somehow seem to know ducati = nice anyways :)

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

Reply to silverpig
- 0 +

Quote :

What the hell is a Holden Commodore? I seriously doubt that we would allow such a beast into this country.


Actually, you can get one in the US. Sort of. Just go and buy a new Pontiac GTO. Its not much more than a re-badged Holden Monaro, which, and correct me if I'm wrong here Aussies, is based on the Holden Commodore.

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Reply to Syndil

Quote :

Holden Commodore ...


Quote :

Actually, you can get one in the US. Sort of. Just go and buy a new Pontiac GTO. Its not much more than a re-badged Holden Monaro, which, and correct me if I'm wrong here Aussies, is based on the Holden Commodore.


And this all from Australia ... Well enough of this nonsense.

Time for a regime change.


<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes
- 0 +

Quote :

Time for a regime change.


Actually all this is because of a regime change. GM hired Bob Lutz as "head of production operations" back in 2001 to help revive the company. Bob is credited with the revival of Chrysler in the early '90's, where he led all of Chrysler's automotive activities including sales, marketing, product development, manufacturing and procurement and supply. Chrysler went from crappy-ass K-cars to the more respectable "cab-forward" designs such as he Intrepid and Cirrus. Prior to that, he spent 12 years at Ford, and is credited with bringing the Merkur XR4Ti to market. Obviously not his best move, but he is the kind of person to inject fresh new ideas into a company, which, at this point, GM desperately needs.

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Reply to Syndil
- 0 +

I looked at your Alldata thing, and did not see much bad recalls about the Hyundais, just to confirm a few doubts.

---TO DH mainly---
The Elantra as someone else put it, is indeed a reliable car and good in its ranking (second). Best thing IMO about Hyundai is the price. You simply get excellent P/P. Often 2000$ cheaper than the competition but with equally good setup and features. And you'll get Shiftronic in case you're not a manual freak but would like to play with a semi-manual setting occasionally.

I don't see the Focus as being a bad car, but it is subjective.
I can safely say any Toyota you get, you won't regret it. I personally love the new Corolla S, it just has a design that screams, for its price range. Put it near any other car of its range, and it'll look like a monster to them. It seriously is huge just like the Camry, and both have this "solid" look when you look at 'em. It just SEEMS that they are well built.
Corolla S should be on your list DH, of test drives. Just try to get some features on, because personally base Toyotas have little to give, compared to equal Hyundais with Shiftronic and some other things. (although picky, our Sonata has light-powered front mirrors for the times you wanna look at yerself during nighttime! :wink: )

Wish I could test the new Maxima 2004, my god that is one SEXY car. Total revamp from last year and has barely any relation to what a Maxima "family car" is supposed to be.

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Reply to eden

Eden's right about one thing - Nissan's rock. Used to have a 280ZX - 180,000 miles - and going stong - sold it to a Z freak.

Got a jeep now. (g/f has an Altima - solid and affordable)



<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Quote :

Can't go wrong with a Honda Civic. Only cars I know that consistently last over 200K miles!


BMWs, Toyotas, Hondas, Volvos and Mercedes-Benzs will usually go 200,000 miles and more. It depends on the owner. Generally, the higher end cars are better taken care of and rack up more miles because people invest a lot of money in them. For the most part you could beat the hell out of a Toyota or Honda and still creep up to 200,000 miles.

I donated my 1981 MB 240D to charity two years ago. 400,000+ miles. It still ran perfectly. I would have kept it but the floor boards rusted out, the rear was making noise, the trans was shifting kinda funny and the master cylinder was leaking. I still miss that car.



Okay, brain. You don't like me, and I don't like you, but let's get through this thing and then I can continue killing you with beer. -- Homer Simpson.

Reply to Black_Cat

Quote :

I donated my 1981 MB 240D to charity two years ago. 400,000+ miles. It still ran perfectly. I would have kept it but the floor boards rusted out, the rear was making noise, the trans was shifting kinda funny and the master cylinder was leaking. I still miss that car.


Send me some of your extra money ... K ?

<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Quote :

Send me some of your extra money ... K ?


I just counted it all. It's all there. To the nickel. No extra money. Sorry.

Seriously, I tried to sell it. I put an ad in the paper: $500 for parts. Nobody even came to look at it. I gave it to charity and wrote it off for $2700.

Okay, brain. You don't like me, and I don't like you, but let's get through this thing and then I can continue killing you with beer. -- Homer Simpson.

Reply to Black_Cat

lol.


<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes

hehehe
Holden is the Australian subsiduary of General Motors... called GMH naturally enough.
The commodore is the "standard" 4 door sedan, available in 3.8L v6, 5L v8 or 5.7lV8.

you could get one in the states, but its right hand drive.

Also, the US has recently imported the 2 door sports coupe version of the commodore, and is sold as the 2003 pontiac GTO.

so u CAN get them in the US :smile:

<b><i>"Why don't you try practicing random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control?"</b></i> :eek:

Reply to lhgpoobaa

yeah the pontiac GTO is nice. good sturdy beastie. great for cruizing.

<b><i>"Why don't you try practicing random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control?"</b></i> :eek:

Reply to lhgpoobaa

Sorry - we drive on the other side ...



<b><font color=red>It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. - Bill Clinton<b><font color=red>

Reply to Jake_Barnes

I find it amusing that australia is exporting cars to the US...
Thats like selling icecubes to the inuit.

<b><i>"Why don't you try practicing random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control?"</b></i> :eek:

Reply to lhgpoobaa
- 0 +

I also find it somewhat amusing... However I don't think its the first time. I seem to remember the US imported some Subarus from Australia at one time, but I can't remember the specifics, or find any info on it right now.

Anyway, we never get the good Aussie stuff. The Monaro is a great car, but it was ruined when they turned it into a GTO. Now it just looks like any other damned soccer-mom's Pontiac. Why couldn't they just leave it alone? The Monaro is damn sexy...

Anyway, what the hell is up with Vegemite? Yeast extract?!? Who the hell came up with that?? I mean, first of all, its YEAST. Doesn't exactly excite the salivary glands when you say YEAST. Makes me think of feminine itching. And who wants to eat anything having to do with that, much less its extract????

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Reply to Syndil
- 0 +

I'm so frustrated. There are WAY too many cars to choose from. I did test drive the Focus today and it was alright. It was kinda hard to tell though since there were 3 people in the car and the A/C was on.

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Reply to dhlucke

*SQUEAKS & LEG HUGS*
True... the ponniac (american accent) has been dumbed down.
Least it still retains the 5.7L and by the looks of it the 4sp auto/6 manual.

Wonder if its the same tranny cauz 6th is rediculously tall.

<b>Friend of Fredi and his Cables. :smile: </b>

Reply to EvilHammie

*SQUEAK*
proves u aint an aussie

<b>Friend of Fredi and his Cables. :smile: </b>

Reply to EvilHammie
- 0 +

VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!VW!!!

Get a newer VW you won't be sorry...
At least test drive one. THey are uber fun to drive.

Get your own sig!!! :tongue:

Reply to Grub
- 0 +

LOL, LHG, your Hamster had a user title and you still don't! :tongue:


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Reply to eden
- 0 +

I read up and I have driven a couple Cavaliers. They're really outdated and get reviews that put them subpar in their class. Unfortionately they're a 10 year old design and can't keep up.

The Mazda Protege gets good reviews but I still haven't driven one.

Oddly enough the KIA's of course get rather crappy reviews, or a "you get what you pay for" type review with the only thing holding them up being their warranty. Hyndai's on the other hand seem to get better reviews even though I thought they were the same company.

I'm hoping that the Aston Martin's drop in price so that I can buy one of those. :smile:

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Reply to dhlucke

Hehe, you don't need to do that, the same engine is available in the U.S., it's just that our cars are FWD.

A Pontiac Bonneville SSEi is a nice car, except for the FWD thing.

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Reply to Crashman

Sub-par how, NVH? Ergonomics? Looks? Well, you don't worry about "excellent" NVH, looks, or ergonomics when "acceptable" will do...that is, when you're looking for a cheap, reliable car that is also cheap to repair, just in case something bad happens.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Reply to Crashman
- 0 +

Reviews put the Cavalier and Sunfire in the same catagory of old cars that desperately need to be redesigned. It's not that they're bad cars per se, but that there are newer cars out there in the same class and at a similar price.

I'm not dissing your car, I'm just saying that if I have to pick between a Focus and a Cavalier the reviews indicate that the Focus is a better buy.

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Reply to dhlucke

<A HREF="http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/08/pf/autos/bc.autos.durability/index.htm" target="_new">Useful info.</A>

Okay, brain. You don't like me, and I don't like you, but let's get through this thing and then I can continue killing you with beer. -- Homer Simpson.

Reply to Black_Cat
- 0 +

thx

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Reply to dhlucke

I've only owned old cars. Every Ford I've had has overheated and damaged something expensive. 1988 Escort warped a head on a cool night driving 45 down a smooth dirt road. 1987 Thunderbird overheated because I was stupid enough to use the AC on a 95 degree day, cracked the block going down the highway at 75MPH. 1988 Crown Victoria overheated the transmission because of a factory defect in the brake backing plate which caused the rear brakes to drag lightly. Second T-bird engine bent a connecting rod when I tried to start it...coolant had leaked into a cylinder while it was parked (most likely cause of coolant leak:heat damage).

So I've never been able to keep a Ford product on the road for more than a few months...but the Focus, isn't that mechanically a Mazda?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Reply to Crashman
- 0 +

No, the focus isn't mechanically a Mazda. I think the only real sharing between the two is sometimes Mazda uses Ford engines and transmissions. Mazda for the most part still does their own thing, but is just under Ford management.

You'd think you'd learn not to get any more Ford's after your second one broke up like that. :)

-------------------------------------------
<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>

Reply to ksoth

dood.... i'm tellin ya man... get a 1998 240sx se coupe 5 speed. find a low mile one. you'd be spending about 8k on it and its a kick ass car. major kick ass too. and since it s a bit older, you won't lose that much money. those cars run for ever. i'm sure you can find a good one. even a new engine won't cost you 4k... thats engine is one of the best nissan engines up to date. its the same engine that can take a turbo pushing 22psi with almost no mods to the engine parts. not to mention how swOOt the car looks. also there are so many things you can do to that car if you want. and its a REAL sport car, not like the rest of all this FWD shiit. small moods like shanging the flywheel make noticable difference on that car. *put the 4k in the car and beat stock supra, 3000gt, rx7, 300zx, camaro, firebird, corvette.. and so on*... i wouldn't. it actually takes more than 4k to keep it going lol, but you get the point

you live in cali so its perfect for a RWD!! and that car handles like *oooh creams* a dream. right amount of torque and hp makes for good driving pleasure. as many cars as i have driven (and thats a TON), thats still one of my faves.

<font color=orange><b>"x: who... the bald guy?
y: ssshhhhh!!! he might hear you
x: its ok, i'm sure he knows he's bald"

Reply to scamtrOn

some of the older vw cars really kick ass. i love hitler, we make love all the time.

<font color=orange><b>"x: who... the bald guy?
y: ssshhhhh!!! he might hear you
x: its ok, i'm sure he knows he's bald"

Reply to scamtrOn
- 0 +

Ewww...saurkraut lover...

Get your own sig!!! :tongue:

Reply to Grub

hmmmm.
allways wondered about that...
how is the engine mounted? transversly i assume.
Must also generate a crapload of torque steer too with a hefty V8.

and yeah, our 5.7L V8 comes from the chev originally LOL.

<b><i>"Why don't you try practicing random acts of intelligence and senseless acts of self-control?"</b></i> :eek:

Reply to lhgpoobaa

The Escort overheating must have been a fluke, the thing ran perfectly for 150k miles, was perfectly maintained, and suddenly overheated on a cool summer's night!

I bought the T-bird because the guy was in a bind and needed money. I got it cheap, ran it for 2 months (long enough to know the problem hadn't existed previously), then it overheated from too much stress (AC on) in hot weather.

When I put the replacement engine in that car, I put a new water pump on, etc. The replacement engine must've had minor damage previously...

Then I traded a Cavailer with 175k miles for a Crown Vic, fully loaded, 56k miles, bad transmission. Fixed it, 2nd transmission burned.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Reply to Crashman
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