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Xbox2 Spec Sheet Questioned

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2004 4:31:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_n...
_______________________________________________________________________________
Alleged Xbox 2 specification sheet debunked by experts

Rob Fahey 15:57 27/04/2004
"Leaked" diagram is a fake or, at best, an out of date internal
document


A diagram purporting to be a leaked Microsoft document describing the
specification of the Xbox 2 has surfaced on a Chinese bulletin board -
but sources close to the console's development say that it is probably
a fake.

The block diagram, which appeared on Chinese website GZeasy.com, shows
a system architecture which had three 3.5Ghz CPU units, 256Mb of main
memory, and a 500Mhz graphics chip with 10Mb of on-board memory.

The schematic also shows the system featuring two memory unit ports,
with basic memory unit size being 64Mb, a 100Mbit LAN port and a hard
drive - although it notes that it's not been decided whether to build
in the drive as yet.

However, a number of sources who are familiar with Microsoft's console
development say that the diagram is not an accurate reflection of the
information they've received from the company about Xbox 2 - and could
easily have been put together by someone with basic hardware knowledge
from publicly available information about the forthcoming system.

"It's not impossible that it's a Microsoft document," one expert told
us this afternoon. "But some of the figures seem very suspect, and the
information included on the diagram looks to me like it reflects the
available information about Xbox 2 rather than being a sensible set of
information to put on a document for developers."

He voiced particular concerns over the fact that while the document
notes "256+ Mb" of main RAM, it doesn't start what kind of RAM will be
used - a vital technical point - and also noted that the CPU diagram
doesn't mention that the CPUs used will be dual-core (effectively
making Xbox 2 into a six processor unit), another important factor.

"There's a lot of detail here about stuff you could just guess or
which we already know from public announcements, like some performance
information about ATI's graphics chips. And then there's some really
surprising missing detail, like the twin-core architecture and a few
other really crucial things which Microsoft has already talked to
developers about but are missing from this diagram. I'd have to guess
it was a fake," he concluded.

Other developers familiar with the Xbox 2 architecture also voiced
misgivings about the diagrams, with one pointing in particular at the
information about the processor cache on the document as being
inaccurate. "We've seen stuff about the cache on those CPUs from
Microsoft, and this isn't it," he said. "If this isn't a fake, the
only thing I can think of is that it's an old internal document that
was a work-in-progress and never meant to be seen outside Microsoft."
_______________________________________________________________________________



http://xbox.ign.com/articles/509/509465p1.html
_______________________________________________________________________________

Xbox 2 Details Revealed
One source claims it's real, others say it's fake. See for yourself.

April 27, 2004 - Chinese website GZeasy revealed an alleged blueprint
of Xbox 2, labeled Xenon System Block Diagram, earlier today. The
diagram is believed to be the basic concept for the next Xbox, which
is either codenamed Xenon or will, in fact, be called Xenon. Though
some aspects of Xenon may change slightly over the next year, the
diagram is believed to be a close representation of Xbox 2.

Michael Dougherty, head of Xbox Advanced Technology Group, has his
name attached to the document, though that doesn't make it any more
legitimate. However, the diagram was confirmed as the real deal by a
developer close to Microsoft. "We were very surprised to see that
leaked," a source, who wished to remain anonymous, told us this
morning. "I'm sure Microsoft is freaking out because this is the same
stuff [developers] have now."
Other sources have claimed that the document is not real and claim it
is a fake. The main point of contention is that the document doesn't
state what type of RAM will be used, something that's quite important
for development considerations. A Microsoft representative stated,
"Microsoft does not comment on rumors or speculation." It's possible
this is an older document never meant for the public eye and that the
current look of Xbox 2 is quite different. We decided to take a look
at the specs anyway. It's not certain if this is, in fact, the next
Xbox, but if it is, well, we should all be very happy.

What does the fancy diagram below mean? Though it doesn't offer cold
hard facts as to what "Xenon" will be capable of in terms of full
processing power, one thing is clear -- this baby will be quite
powerful. Xenon is divided into essentially two sections. The section
on the left, the South Bridge, is standard stuff. That's where your
DVD, Ethernet port, and potential hard disc go. Note that the hard
disk is not confirmed, even in this diagram, but if it is to be used,
expect 20-80 GBs capacity.


The more interesting parts of the diagram are on the right. Think of
the North Bridge as your highway of importance and everything attached
to it -- graphics, sound, AI -- are all of the information needed to
run a game. All of that needs to get pulled onto the highway and
brought to the South Bridge. There are wide open lanes to the North
Bridge from every area, incredible wide, with 10.8-33.2 GBs per second
bandwidth able to be transferred along the pipeline. That is
unbelievably fast.

Of course, a quick pipeline means nothing if there isn't processing
power behind it all. Taking a bike onto an empty freeway still isn't
going to get you anywhere quickly. The first and most important item
to note is the upper box on the diagram. There are three 3.5+GHz CPU
chips. Each of these will likely be used to handle different aspects
of Xenon processing. Each also has its own separate cache and a global
cache. All of this means that while Xenon will likely use grid
processing or some form of collaborative "cell" processing (IBM does
something similar with "Butterfly" very well), as opposed to the more
common dual-processing. Each CPU can then work independently to govern
different game needs, but because of the shared cache, and because
each is a Virtual Processing Unit, programmers will see it as,
essentially, one unit. They won't have to meticulously program
specific functions to each processor, but instead can rely on Xenon to
choose where to distribute everything. None of that Sega Saturn
insanity here.

Below the North Bridge is the all-important graphics chip. The 500MHz
clocked core chip has 10 Megs of dedicated EDRAM, which will likely be
used for more specific special effects. While that doesn't sound like
much, Microsoft's current console has no graphics-dedicated RAM. Those
10MBs will keep a majority of the 256 MBs of main RAM free for other
applications. This chip, presumably still of ATI make and specially
created for Xenon, looks to be beyond the best graphics available on
PC now or in the foreseeable future, but should be comparable to those
high-end cards by the time Xenon is release in 2005 (unless it's
delayed).

To the right of the North Bridge is the Main Memory, which at 256MB
may seem small compared to your personal computer, but remember that
Xbox only has 64MBs and does not have any memory specifically
dedicated to graphics or special effects. All of that memory can be
pumped across the system bus at 22.4 GBs per second. More bandwidth
across the board means less choke points, which translates to higher
performance.

If this diagram is real, if this is the blueprint for Xbox 2, then
gamers are in for a whale of a machine, one far more powerful than any
current generation console. We'll have more on this story as it
develops.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 28, 2004 2:30:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

R420 wrote:

[snip]

Among other newsgroups, you posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips

How is your message related to the processors used inside IBM PC
and IBM PC compatible systems?

[ Followup-To set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips ]
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 28, 2004 9:35:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Isn't the next Xbox going to have an IBM processor in it? I think that's
why the OP posted to that newsgroup as well as this.
"Grumble" <invalid@kma.eu.org> wrote in message
news:c6nq36$3be$1@news-rocq.inria.fr...
> R420 wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Among other newsgroups, you posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
>
> How is your message related to the processors used inside IBM PC
> and IBM PC compatible systems?
>
> [ Followup-To set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips ]
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 29, 2004 10:17:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"R420" <radeonr420@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:51488ce2.0404271131.303884a3@posting.google.com...
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_n...
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
> Alleged Xbox 2 specification sheet debunked by experts
>
> Rob Fahey 15:57 27/04/2004
> "Leaked" diagram is a fake or, at best, an out of date internal
> document
>
>
> A diagram purporting to be a leaked Microsoft document describing the
> specification of the Xbox 2 has surfaced on a Chinese bulletin board -
> but sources close to the console's development say that it is probably
> a fake.
>
> The block diagram, which appeared on Chinese website GZeasy.com, shows
> a system architecture which had three 3.5Ghz CPU units

Heh... And its all submerged in liquid nitrogen...

- Cryo
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2004 4:57:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"R420" <radeonr420@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:51488ce2.0404271131.303884a3@posting.google.com...
> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_n...
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
> Alleged Xbox 2 specification sheet debunked by experts
>
> Rob Fahey 15:57 27/04/2004
> "Leaked" diagram is a fake or, at best, an out of date internal
> document
>
>
> A diagram purporting to be a leaked Microsoft document describing the
> specification of the Xbox 2 has surfaced on a Chinese bulletin board -
> but sources close to the console's development say that it is probably
> a fake.
>
> The block diagram, which appeared on Chinese website GZeasy.com, shows
> a system architecture which had three 3.5Ghz CPU units, 256Mb of main
> memory, and a 500Mhz graphics chip with 10Mb of on-board memory.

I agree, 256 Megabits of main RAM and 10 Megabits of video memory just
wouldn't cut it for a 32-bit system. ;) 


> The schematic also shows the system featuring two memory unit ports,
> with basic memory unit size being 64Mb, a 100Mbit LAN port and a hard
> drive - although it notes that it's not been decided whether to build
> in the drive as yet.
>
> However, a number of sources who are familiar with Microsoft's console
> development say that the diagram is not an accurate reflection of the
> information they've received from the company about Xbox 2 - and could
> easily have been put together by someone with basic hardware knowledge
> from publicly available information about the forthcoming system.
>
> "It's not impossible that it's a Microsoft document," one expert told
> us this afternoon. "But some of the figures seem very suspect, and the
> information included on the diagram looks to me like it reflects the
> available information about Xbox 2 rather than being a sensible set of
> information to put on a document for developers."
>
> He voiced particular concerns over the fact that while the document
> notes "256+ Mb" of main RAM, it doesn't start what kind of RAM will be
> used - a vital technical point - and also noted that the CPU diagram
> doesn't mention that the CPUs used will be dual-core (effectively
> making Xbox 2 into a six processor unit), another important factor.

Or that we currently measure RAM in MegaBytes, or MB, hmm?

> "There's a lot of detail here about stuff you could just guess or
> which we already know from public announcements, like some performance
> information about ATI's graphics chips. And then there's some really
> surprising missing detail, like the twin-core architecture and a few
> other really crucial things which Microsoft has already talked to
> developers about but are missing from this diagram. I'd have to guess
> it was a fake," he concluded.
>
> Other developers familiar with the Xbox 2 architecture also voiced
> misgivings about the diagrams, with one pointing in particular at the
> information about the processor cache on the document as being
> inaccurate. "We've seen stuff about the cache on those CPUs from
> Microsoft, and this isn't it," he said. "If this isn't a fake, the
> only thing I can think of is that it's an old internal document that
> was a work-in-progress and never meant to be seen outside Microsoft."
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
>
>
> http://xbox.ign.com/articles/509/509465p1.html
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Xbox 2 Details Revealed
> One source claims it's real, others say it's fake. See for yourself.
>
> April 27, 2004 - Chinese website GZeasy revealed an alleged blueprint
> of Xbox 2, labeled Xenon System Block Diagram, earlier today. The
> diagram is believed to be the basic concept for the next Xbox, which
> is either codenamed Xenon or will, in fact, be called Xenon. Though
> some aspects of Xenon may change slightly over the next year, the
> diagram is believed to be a close representation of Xbox 2.
>
> Michael Dougherty, head of Xbox Advanced Technology Group, has his
> name attached to the document, though that doesn't make it any more
> legitimate. However, the diagram was confirmed as the real deal by a
> developer close to Microsoft. "We were very surprised to see that
> leaked," a source, who wished to remain anonymous, told us this
> morning. "I'm sure Microsoft is freaking out because this is the same
> stuff [developers] have now."
> Other sources have claimed that the document is not real and claim it
> is a fake. The main point of contention is that the document doesn't
> state what type of RAM will be used, something that's quite important
> for development considerations. A Microsoft representative stated,
> "Microsoft does not comment on rumors or speculation." It's possible
> this is an older document never meant for the public eye and that the
> current look of Xbox 2 is quite different. We decided to take a look
> at the specs anyway. It's not certain if this is, in fact, the next
> Xbox, but if it is, well, we should all be very happy.
>
> What does the fancy diagram below mean? Though it doesn't offer cold
> hard facts as to what "Xenon" will be capable of in terms of full
> processing power, one thing is clear -- this baby will be quite
> powerful. Xenon is divided into essentially two sections. The section
> on the left, the South Bridge, is standard stuff. That's where your
> DVD, Ethernet port, and potential hard disc go. Note that the hard
> disk is not confirmed, even in this diagram, but if it is to be used,
> expect 20-80 GBs capacity.
>
>
> The more interesting parts of the diagram are on the right. Think of
> the North Bridge as your highway of importance and everything attached
> to it -- graphics, sound, AI -- are all of the information needed to
> run a game. All of that needs to get pulled onto the highway and
> brought to the South Bridge. There are wide open lanes to the North
> Bridge from every area, incredible wide, with 10.8-33.2 GBs per second
> bandwidth able to be transferred along the pipeline. That is
> unbelievably fast.
>
> Of course, a quick pipeline means nothing if there isn't processing
> power behind it all. Taking a bike onto an empty freeway still isn't
> going to get you anywhere quickly. The first and most important item
> to note is the upper box on the diagram. There are three 3.5+GHz CPU
> chips. Each of these will likely be used to handle different aspects
> of Xenon processing. Each also has its own separate cache and a global
> cache. All of this means that while Xenon will likely use grid
> processing or some form of collaborative "cell" processing (IBM does
> something similar with "Butterfly" very well), as opposed to the more
> common dual-processing. Each CPU can then work independently to govern
> different game needs, but because of the shared cache, and because
> each is a Virtual Processing Unit, programmers will see it as,
> essentially, one unit. They won't have to meticulously program
> specific functions to each processor, but instead can rely on Xenon to
> choose where to distribute everything. None of that Sega Saturn
> insanity here.
>
> Below the North Bridge is the all-important graphics chip. The 500MHz
> clocked core chip has 10 Megs of dedicated EDRAM, which will likely be
> used for more specific special effects. While that doesn't sound like
> much, Microsoft's current console has no graphics-dedicated RAM. Those
> 10MBs will keep a majority of the 256 MBs of main RAM free for other
> applications. This chip, presumably still of ATI make and specially
> created for Xenon, looks to be beyond the best graphics available on
> PC now or in the foreseeable future, but should be comparable to those
> high-end cards by the time Xenon is release in 2005 (unless it's
> delayed).
>
> To the right of the North Bridge is the Main Memory, which at 256MB
> may seem small compared to your personal computer, but remember that
> Xbox only has 64MBs and does not have any memory specifically
> dedicated to graphics or special effects. All of that memory can be
> pumped across the system bus at 22.4 GBs per second. More bandwidth
> across the board means less choke points, which translates to higher
> performance.
>
> If this diagram is real, if this is the blueprint for Xbox 2, then
> gamers are in for a whale of a machine, one far more powerful than any
> current generation console. We'll have more on this story as it
> develops.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
June 14, 2004 8:05:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,alt.games.video.xbox,microsoft.public.xbox,uk.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On 20040430 8:57 AM, in article G2skc.61089$G_.29204@nwrddc02.gnilink.net,
"Scott H" <sheathx013@yahoo.com> wrote:Scott HScott H20040430 8:57
AMsheathx013@yahoo.comG2skc.61089$G_.29204@nwrddc02.gnilink.net

>
> "R420" <radeonr420@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:51488ce2.0404271131.303884a3@posting.google.com...
>> http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_n...
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ___
>> Alleged Xbox 2 specification sheet debunked by experts
>>
>> Rob Fahey 15:57 27/04/2004
>> "Leaked" diagram is a fake or, at best, an out of date internal
>> document
>>
>>
>> A diagram purporting to be a leaked Microsoft document describing the
>> specification of the Xbox 2 has surfaced on a Chinese bulletin board -
>> but sources close to the console's development say that it is probably
>> a fake.
>>
>> The block diagram, which appeared on Chinese website GZeasy.com, shows
>> a system architecture which had three 3.5Ghz CPU units, 256Mb of main
>> memory, and a 500Mhz graphics chip with 10Mb of on-board memory.
>
> I agree, 256 Megabits of main RAM and 10 Megabits of video memory just
> wouldn't cut it for a 32-bit system. ;) 
>
>
>> The schematic also shows the system featuring two memory unit ports,
>> with basic memory unit size being 64Mb, a 100Mbit LAN port and a hard
>> drive - although it notes that it's not been decided whether to build
>> in the drive as yet.
>>
>> However, a number of sources who are familiar with Microsoft's console
>> development say that the diagram is not an accurate reflection of the
>> information they've received from the company about Xbox 2 - and could
>> easily have been put together by someone with basic hardware knowledge
>> from publicly available information about the forthcoming system.
>>
>> "It's not impossible that it's a Microsoft document," one expert told
>> us this afternoon. "But some of the figures seem very suspect, and the
>> information included on the diagram looks to me like it reflects the
>> available information about Xbox 2 rather than being a sensible set of
>> information to put on a document for developers."
>>
>> He voiced particular concerns over the fact that while the document
>> notes "256+ Mb" of main RAM, it doesn't start what kind of RAM will be
>> used - a vital technical point - and also noted that the CPU diagram
>> doesn't mention that the CPUs used will be dual-core (effectively
>> making Xbox 2 into a six processor unit), another important factor.
>
> Or that we currently measure RAM in MegaBytes, or MB, hmm?
>
>> "There's a lot of detail here about stuff you could just guess or
>> which we already know from public announcements, like some performance
>> information about ATI's graphics chips. And then there's some really
>> surprising missing detail, like the twin-core architecture and a few
>> other really crucial things which Microsoft has already talked to
>> developers about but are missing from this diagram. I'd have to guess
>> it was a fake," he concluded.
>>
>> Other developers familiar with the Xbox 2 architecture also voiced
>> misgivings about the diagrams, with one pointing in particular at the
>> information about the processor cache on the document as being
>> inaccurate. "We've seen stuff about the cache on those CPUs from
>> Microsoft, and this isn't it," he said. "If this isn't a fake, the
>> only thing I can think of is that it's an old internal document that
>> was a work-in-progress and never meant to be seen outside Microsoft."
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ___
>>
>>
>>
>> http://xbox.ign.com/articles/509/509465p1.html
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ___
>>
>> Xbox 2 Details Revealed
>> One source claims it's real, others say it's fake. See for yourself.
>>
>> April 27, 2004 - Chinese website GZeasy revealed an alleged blueprint
>> of Xbox 2, labeled Xenon System Block Diagram, earlier today. The
>> diagram is believed to be the basic concept for the next Xbox, which
>> is either codenamed Xenon or will, in fact, be called Xenon. Though
>> some aspects of Xenon may change slightly over the next year, the
>> diagram is believed to be a close representation of Xbox 2.
>>
>> Michael Dougherty, head of Xbox Advanced Technology Group, has his
>> name attached to the document, though that doesn't make it any more
>> legitimate. However, the diagram was confirmed as the real deal by a
>> developer close to Microsoft. "We were very surprised to see that
>> leaked," a source, who wished to remain anonymous, told us this
>> morning. "I'm sure Microsoft is freaking out because this is the same
>> stuff [developers] have now."
>> Other sources have claimed that the document is not real and claim it
>> is a fake. The main point of contention is that the document doesn't
>> state what type of RAM will be used, something that's quite important
>> for development considerations. A Microsoft representative stated,
>> "Microsoft does not comment on rumors or speculation." It's possible
>> this is an older document never meant for the public eye and that the
>> current look of Xbox 2 is quite different. We decided to take a look
>> at the specs anyway. It's not certain if this is, in fact, the next
>> Xbox, but if it is, well, we should all be very happy.
>>
>> What does the fancy diagram below mean? Though it doesn't offer cold
>> hard facts as to what "Xenon" will be capable of in terms of full
>> processing power, one thing is clear -- this baby will be quite
>> powerful. Xenon is divided into essentially two sections. The section
>> on the left, the South Bridge, is standard stuff. That's where your
>> DVD, Ethernet port, and potential hard disc go. Note that the hard
>> disk is not confirmed, even in this diagram, but if it is to be used,
>> expect 20-80 GBs capacity.
>>
>>
>> The more interesting parts of the diagram are on the right. Think of
>> the North Bridge as your highway of importance and everything attached
>> to it -- graphics, sound, AI -- are all of the information needed to
>> run a game. All of that needs to get pulled onto the highway and
>> brought to the South Bridge. There are wide open lanes to the North
>> Bridge from every area, incredible wide, with 10.8-33.2 GBs per second
>> bandwidth able to be transferred along the pipeline. That is
>> unbelievably fast.
>>
>> Of course, a quick pipeline means nothing if there isn't processing
>> power behind it all. Taking a bike onto an empty freeway still isn't
>> going to get you anywhere quickly. The first and most important item
>> to note is the upper box on the diagram. There are three 3.5+GHz CPU
>> chips. Each of these will likely be used to handle different aspects
>> of Xenon processing. Each also has its own separate cache and a global
>> cache. All of this means that while Xenon will likely use grid
>> processing or some form of collaborative "cell" processing (IBM does
>> something similar with "Butterfly" very well), as opposed to the more
>> common dual-processing. Each CPU can then work independently to govern
>> different game needs, but because of the shared cache, and because
>> each is a Virtual Processing Unit, programmers will see it as,
>> essentially, one unit. They won't have to meticulously program
>> specific functions to each processor, but instead can rely on Xenon to
>> choose where to distribute everything. None of that Sega Saturn
>> insanity here.
>>
>> Below the North Bridge is the all-important graphics chip. The 500MHz
>> clocked core chip has 10 Megs of dedicated EDRAM, which will likely be
>> used for more specific special effects. While that doesn't sound like
>> much, Microsoft's current console has no graphics-dedicated RAM. Those
>> 10MBs will keep a majority of the 256 MBs of main RAM free for other
>> applications. This chip, presumably still of ATI make and specially
>> created for Xenon, looks to be beyond the best graphics available on
>> PC now or in the foreseeable future, but should be comparable to those
>> high-end cards by the time Xenon is release in 2005 (unless it's
>> delayed).
>>
>> To the right of the North Bridge is the Main Memory, which at 256MB
>> may seem small compared to your personal computer, but remember that
>> Xbox only has 64MBs and does not have any memory specifically
>> dedicated to graphics or special effects. All of that memory can be
>> pumped across the system bus at 22.4 GBs per second. More bandwidth
>> across the board means less choke points, which translates to higher
>> performance.
>>
>> If this diagram is real, if this is the blueprint for Xbox 2, then
>> gamers are in for a whale of a machine, one far more powerful than any
>> current generation console. We'll have more on this story as it
>> develops.
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ___
>
>
!