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paste or pad

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Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
May 1, 2004 4:40:25 AM

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I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal pad
or paste? What are the pros / cons?

More about : paste pad

May 1, 2004 4:40:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"Max Coppin" <maxcoppin@-no-spam-please-btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:0uBkc.449$Af6.97@newsfe1-win...
> I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
pad
> or paste? What are the pros / cons?

paste period end of discussion. pads are only good for... well, never
mind... ;-) YMMV
May 1, 2004 4:40:26 AM

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Max Coppin wrote:

> I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
> pad
> or paste? What are the pros / cons?


Paste runs cooler, pads are easy for a dumbass to install i.e. stick one to
the bottom of the supplied HS and the end user can't forget to install it.
--

Stacey
Related resources
May 1, 2004 4:40:26 AM

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pick up some Arctic Silver and apply ...it works way better than the
silicone paste or pad
Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
May 1, 2004 4:40:27 AM

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Stacey wrote:

> Max Coppin wrote:
>
>
>>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
>>pad
>>or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>
>
>
> Paste runs cooler, pads are easy for a dumbass to install i.e. stick one to
> the bottom of the supplied HS and the end user can't forget to install it.

It's also less messy, more rugged, reliably repeatable, and readily machine
applied in mass production.

Mention using thermal compound in most modern assembly facilities and
you're likely to be run out of the place on a rail.
May 1, 2004 4:40:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"David Maynard" <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:1095snuaod8uo95@corp.supernews.com...
> Stacey wrote:
>
> > Max Coppin wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
> >>pad
> >>or paste? What are the pros / cons?
> >
> >
> >
> > Paste runs cooler, pads are easy for a dumbass to install i.e. stick one
to
> > the bottom of the supplied HS and the end user can't forget to install
it.
>
> It's also less messy, more rugged, reliably repeatable, and readily
machine
> applied in mass production.
>
> Mention using thermal compound in most modern assembly facilities and
> you're likely to be run out of the place on a rail.
>

Right pads lend themselves nicely to mass production. (more rugged? i've
never been able to break that paste!)
But is it better for the purpose of heat transmission?
May 1, 2004 4:40:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <1095snuaod8uo95@corp.supernews.com>, David Maynard
<dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:

> Stacey wrote:
>
> > Max Coppin wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
> >>pad
> >>or paste? What are the pros / cons?
> >
> >
> >
> > Paste runs cooler, pads are easy for a dumbass to install i.e. stick one to
> > the bottom of the supplied HS and the end user can't forget to install it.
>
> It's also less messy, more rugged, reliably repeatable, and readily machine
> applied in mass production.
>
> Mention using thermal compound in most modern assembly facilities and
> you're likely to be run out of the place on a rail.

That is because engineers in mass production situations, want
what they hope will be a zero maintenance solution. Paste/grease
needs to be reapplied regularly, any time a rising CPU temp suggests
the paste/grease is no longer filling the gap between CPU and HSF.
Thermal "pumping" or drying degrade just about any paste/grease,
so at some point, the CPU/HSF interface has to be redone.

There are some "gooey" solutions (look like silicon rubber) that
can be injected into a heatsink assembly, using an injection port
and an observation port, but the performance of that kind of solution
is worse than a pad.

For an Athlon, the combination of a bare die (i.e. limited contact
area) and high power dissipation, really limit what will work to
keep the processor cool. While AMD doesn't approve of AS3, home
builders find it works just fine. (You may want to read up on
AMD warranty issues if you use AS3 or something similar. If
returning a processor, make sure the processor is cleaned first.
Don't be sloppy with the paste/grease.)

Paul
Anonymous
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May 1, 2004 4:40:29 AM

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snoopy wrote:

> "David Maynard" <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:1095snuaod8uo95@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Stacey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Max Coppin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
>>>>pad
>>>>or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Paste runs cooler, pads are easy for a dumbass to install i.e. stick one
>
> to
>
>>>the bottom of the supplied HS and the end user can't forget to install
>
> it.
>
>>It's also less messy, more rugged, reliably repeatable, and readily
>
> machine
>
>>applied in mass production.
>>
>>Mention using thermal compound in most modern assembly facilities and
>>you're likely to be run out of the place on a rail.
>>
>
>
> Right pads lend themselves nicely to mass production.
> (more rugged? i've
> never been able to break that paste!)

To 'break' it is to do something that causes it to not serve the purpose
and thermal compound that gets smeared off during handling, as one example,
or wasn't applied properly in the first place, doesn't do its job. It's
function is 'broke'.

> But is it better for the purpose of heat transmission?

Depends on how you define 'better'. If you mean what is the best that can
be achieved under ideal conditions, and ignoring long term effects, then
thermal compound is probably 'better'. If you mean being able to count on
all of the applications, and the devices it's applied to, working properly
without costly failures/rework then a pad is better.
Anonymous
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May 1, 2004 5:02:11 AM

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Max Coppin wrote:

> I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal pad
> or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>
>

The choice depends on the application.

Pads are designed to provide an adequate thermal interface regardless of
installer competency. IOW, guaranteed & foolproof. They also last the
life of the processor installation, but can be difficult to disassemble
if required.

Paste has the potential to provide somewhat improved thermal transfer
performance if properly applied, which is largely irrelevant unless you
overclock or otherwise operate under stressful conditions. Paste
performance can degrade over time as it dries out, but disassembly to
replace it is not difficult.

Thermal paste should be applied such that it only fills voids which
would exist if no thermal interface were used - direct contact is
preferable. It's not easy to get this right in practice, hence the
manufacturer's preference for the predictability of pads.
May 1, 2004 6:20:06 AM

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On Sat, 01 May 2004 01:02:11 -0400, Triffid <triffid@nebula.net> wrote:

>
>
>Max Coppin wrote:
>
>> I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal pad
>> or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>>
>>
>
>The choice depends on the application.
>
>Pads are designed to provide an adequate thermal interface regardless of
>installer competency. IOW, guaranteed & foolproof. They also last the
>life of the processor installation, but can be difficult to disassemble
>if required.
>
>Paste has the potential to provide somewhat improved thermal transfer
>performance if properly applied, which is largely irrelevant unless you
>overclock or otherwise operate under stressful conditions. Paste
>performance can degrade over time as it dries out, but disassembly to
>replace it is not difficult.
>
>Thermal paste should be applied such that it only fills voids which
>would exist if no thermal interface were used - direct contact is
>preferable. It's not easy to get this right in practice, hence the
>manufacturer's preference for the predictability of pads.
>

I've seen as much as a 10C difference when applying paste to my AMD
Barton, man these things are touchy! Built a few (slower) with the AMD
boxed for friends and the temps are all about the same, these ppl don't
OC and could care less what their CPU temps are, as long as the PC
doesn't crash they are smiling.

Did a few AMD64s with paste and found out you don't want to cover the
whole top of those, just the center area.

Cheers,
Ed
Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
May 1, 2004 6:45:30 AM

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Ed wrote:

> On Sat, 01 May 2004 01:02:11 -0400, Triffid <triffid@nebula.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Max Coppin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal pad
>>>or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The choice depends on the application.
>>
>>Pads are designed to provide an adequate thermal interface regardless of
>>installer competency. IOW, guaranteed & foolproof. They also last the
>>life of the processor installation, but can be difficult to disassemble
>>if required.
>>
>>Paste has the potential to provide somewhat improved thermal transfer
>>performance if properly applied, which is largely irrelevant unless you
>>overclock or otherwise operate under stressful conditions. Paste
>>performance can degrade over time as it dries out, but disassembly to
>>replace it is not difficult.
>>
>>Thermal paste should be applied such that it only fills voids which
>>would exist if no thermal interface were used - direct contact is
>>preferable. It's not easy to get this right in practice, hence the
>>manufacturer's preference for the predictability of pads.
>>
>
>
> I've seen as much as a 10C difference when applying paste to my AMD
> Barton, man these things are touchy! Built a few (slower) with the AMD
> boxed for friends and the temps are all about the same, these ppl don't
> OC and could care less what their CPU temps are, as long as the PC
> doesn't crash they are smiling.

With Opterons, I only see about a 3'C difference between
pad and paste when using the stock heat sinks and fans
that come with the processors. For an Opty 240 I see
about 42'C with the paste (AS3) and 45'C with the pad.
For an Opty 246, add 6'C to both numbers.

>
> Did a few AMD64s with paste and found out you don't want to cover the
> whole top of those, just the center area.

I covered the whole top (very thinly) of the Opties I did.
I'll try it your way sometime and see if it makes a difference.
Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
May 1, 2004 1:05:24 PM

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>But is it better for the purpose of heat transmission?

At 40C the pad turns to paste, so it is a non issue. 99% of all the
talk about paste being better is just hype. The best improvement I've
ever seen using paste over a pad is 2C. Hardly even worth the effort.
BTW a pad has never shorted out a CPU but paste does all the time.
That's why AMD doesn't want anyone using paste and if they find out
you did your 3 year warrany is void.
May 1, 2004 5:34:52 PM

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Andrew J wrote:

>
>
>>But is it better for the purpose of heat transmission?
>
> At 40C the pad turns to paste, so it is a non issue.

Except it's thicker, adds another layer between the CPU and heat sink.

> 99% of all the
> talk about paste being better is just hype. The best improvement I've
> ever seen using paste over a pad is 2C.

I've seen 6-8C

> Hardly even worth the effort.
> BTW a pad has never shorted out a CPU but paste does all the time.
>

?? Normal silcone HSG isn't conductive so that would be pretty tough!
--

Stacey
Anonymous
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May 1, 2004 8:00:11 PM

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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Rob Stow <rob.stow@sasktel.net> wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>> Did a few AMD64s with paste and found out you don't want to cover the
>> whole top of those, just the center area.
>
> I covered the whole top (very thinly) of the Opties I did.
> I'll try it your way sometime and see if it makes a difference.

My technique for applying thermal grease/paste is to squeeze
out a log of the stuff centered between the long sides of
the dieback. Then very carefully squeeze it down and out
by pressing the heatsink down parallel while rocking slightly.

Practice a few times and check for how well the grease spreads.
Done correctly, this method eliminates air bubbles which are
the big enemies of heat transfer. Both thermal pads and
"trowel the grease flat" can get bubbles.

-- Robert author `cpuburn` http://pages.sbcglobal.net/~redelm



>
Anonymous
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May 1, 2004 9:46:58 PM

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>?? Normal silcone HSG isn't conductive so that would be pretty tough!

The most popular ones like AS(silver?) conduct electricity. The
smallest amount left behind voids your AMD warranty which many have
found out the hard way.

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=...
Anonymous
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May 1, 2004 9:46:59 PM

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Andrew J wrote:
>
>>?? Normal silcone HSG isn't conductive so that would be pretty tough!
>
>
> The most popular ones like AS(silver?) conduct electricity. The
> smallest amount left behind voids your AMD warranty which many have
> found out the hard way.
>
> http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=...

First let me say that I've used, and continue to use, arctic silver and it
can be fine if applied properly. However, noting that some of it may 'ooze'
out understates the problem. The stuff will adhere to anything like
gangbusters, with particular affinity for wherever you don't want it, and
one's 'normal' instincts on how to 'wipe it off' generally spreads it all
over the place rather than 'removing' it. Plus, get it on your fingers, an
incredibly easy event, and everything you touch will end up contaminated
with it as well.

It is the epitome of 'messy'.
May 2, 2004 2:02:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Andrew J wrote:

>
>
>>?? Normal silcone HSG isn't conductive so that would be pretty tough!
>
> The most popular ones like AS(silver?) conduct electricity.

Actually the "most popular" ones aren't conductive. Now if you said "The
most advertised" or "The most expensive/popular with overclockers who read
websites like they are gospel" maybe I'd go with that. :-)

I've tried AS (someone bought some and brought it to me to use on their
system) vs radio shack HSG and there was no difference in temps to amount
to anything. I can't see why anyone would use electrically conductive HSG
anyway. You're right though if I had to choose between electrically
conductive HSG and a pad, I'd be using a pad! The problem is there are good
HSG's that aren't electrically conductive and do a much better job than a
pad does.

--

Stacey
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 2:32:51 AM

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In article <c71kmf$gr3mi$1@ID-52908.news.uni-berlin.de>,
fotocord@yahoo.com says...
> Andrew J wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>?? Normal silcone HSG isn't conductive so that would be pretty tough!
> >
> > The most popular ones like AS(silver?) conduct electricity.
>
> Actually the "most popular" ones aren't conductive. Now if you said "The
> most advertised" or "The most expensive/popular with overclockers who read
> websites like they are gospel" maybe I'd go with that. :-)
>
> I've tried AS (someone bought some and brought it to me to use on their
> system) vs radio shack HSG and there was no difference in temps to amount
> to anything. I can't see why anyone would use electrically conductive HSG
> anyway. You're right though if I had to choose between electrically
> conductive HSG and a pad, I'd be using a pad! The problem is there are good
> HSG's that aren't electrically conductive and do a much better job than a
> pad does.

If you google back a few years (perhaps even five) there were
people selling the idea of *grounding* the HSF to improve the
processor speed. It's amazing what people will buy! If you have
any doubts about people's gullibility, look no further than
audio-phools, or your fav audio retailer. People are ignorant,
and have lots of money with which to be stupid.

--
Keith
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 8:21:05 AM

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On Sat, 1 May 2004 22:32:51 -0400, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:

>If you google back a few years (perhaps even five) there were
>people selling the idea of *grounding* the HSF to improve the
>processor speed. It's amazing what people will buy!

That idea is still alive and kicking today. The latest is a grounding
cable on this new brand of power supply available here. Some user
purportedly see better overclocking results when one of the
motherboard screw secures it to the board. My friend pointed out that
the power suppy and board are already grounded in the first to begin
with and had "empirical" data thrown into his face by users who
"benefitted".

Personally I don't know enough to figure why it should help, anybody
has got a better grasp of it? :p 
--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :) 
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 8:23:02 AM

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On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
>generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
>off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
>most people apply way to much.

As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
gets squeezed out :p 

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :) 
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 8:23:03 AM

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The little lost angel wrote:

> On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
>>generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
>>off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
>>most people apply way to much.
>
>
> As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
> better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
> gets squeezed out :p 
>

Frankly, both situations are a 'problem' if you define 'problem' as less
than optimal and no, "too much" doesn't necessarily get squeezed out. It
depends on the mechanical characteristics of the interface and the fluid
properties of the thermal compound.
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 8:52:15 AM

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> That idea is still alive and kicking today. The latest is a grounding
> cable on this new brand of power supply available here. Some user
> purportedly see better overclocking results when one of the
> motherboard screw secures it to the board. My friend pointed out that
> the power suppy and board are already grounded in the first to begin
> with and had "empirical" data thrown into his face by users who
> "benefitted".
>
> Personally I don't know enough to figure why it should help, anybody
> has got a better grasp of it? :p 
> --
You could ask my cable installer!
Blamed everything including the kitchen sink for the lack of lockup on the
cable modem signal - his tester modem did not lock up either!
Yes, he blamed the ground and the power outlet... had me bring an extension
from another circuit!
Currently a 'contractor' in the area gets the blame for 3 weeks of outages.
Could be true.
May 2, 2004 2:55:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"The little lost angel" <a?n?g?e?l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com> wrote in
message news:40947665.167180078@news.pacific.net.sg...
> On Sat, 1 May 2004 22:32:51 -0400, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:
>
> >If you google back a few years (perhaps even five) there were
> >people selling the idea of *grounding* the HSF to improve the
> >processor speed. It's amazing what people will buy!
>
> That idea is still alive and kicking today. The latest is a grounding
> cable on this new brand of power supply available here. Some user
> purportedly see better overclocking results when one of the
> motherboard screw secures it to the board. My friend pointed out that
> the power suppy and board are already grounded in the first to begin
> with and had "empirical" data thrown into his face by users who
> "benefitted".
>
> Personally I don't know enough to figure why it should help, anybody
> has got a better grasp of it? :p 
> --
> L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
> If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
:) 
> Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
> If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
> But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

I fundamentally agree with your views but you are not dealing with only DC
currents. Your are dealing with high-frequency pulses with frequency
components well into the microwave region. This means what looks like a
ground to DC looks like a distributed mess of small inductors, capacitors
and resistors leading to ground to these high-frequencies. It is not totally
impossible that adding or removing a ground somewhere might "improve" the
signal fidelity. I imagine it would be more of a hit and miss affair with it
making no difference most of the time, worse some of the time and better the
odd time. To say putting a ground on all heatsink fans improves the
performance on all boards is nonsense. Give the manufacturers a little
credit, they are well aware of these issues.

Billh
Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
May 2, 2004 4:52:29 PM

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On Sat, 1 May 2004 00:40:25 +0100, "Max Coppin"
<maxcoppin@-no-spam-please-btinternet.com> wrote:

>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal pad
>or paste? What are the pros / cons?

For the average users, pads will be better. If you look on e.g. AMDs
recommendations they recommend pads and say grease only should be uses
for testing-purposes for short time installation of the CPU.




--
Clas Mehus
--------------------------------------------------
Dataguiden : http://www.pcworld.no/dataguiden/
--------------------------------------------------
"Den som har flest prylar när han dör vinner..."
May 2, 2004 4:52:30 PM

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"Clas Mehus" <clas.mehus@idg.no> wrote in message
news:jkk990hi988m3h0b057719mal2sn9o7t8b@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 1 May 2004 00:40:25 +0100, "Max Coppin"
> <maxcoppin@-no-spam-please-btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
pad
> >or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>
> For the average users, pads will be better. If you look on e.g. AMDs
> recommendations they recommend pads and say grease only should be uses
> for testing-purposes for short time installation of the CPU.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Clas Mehus
> --------------------------------------------------
> Dataguiden : http://www.pcworld.no/dataguiden/
> --------------------------------------------------
> "Den som har flest prylar när han dör vinner..."

Where do you buy pads these days? A while back the only place the average
person could by them was by requesting a sample kit from a manufacturer
unless you wanted to buy a thousand or so at a time.
Billh
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 2, 2004 6:39:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
> On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
> >generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
> >off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
> >most people apply way to much.
>
> As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
> better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
> gets squeezed out :p 

To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer. Imagine a heat
sink connected to a CPU top by a 3' length of metal where the length
puts the heat sink 3' away from the CPU. While the thermal ability of
the metal to metal contact is great, the HS doesn't see much of that
heat. the same is true with HSP, if you use to much you move the heat
sink to far from the CPU to get optimal cooling.

To little paste is a problem, but I only said that too much is always a
problem. It's actually hard to get too little HSP in normal practice,
you're only trying to fill the divots in the two surfaces (CPU/HS), not
provide a soft surface for the HS to sit on. A properly machined HS and
clean CPU mounting surface don't require much past as long as it covers
the contact areas.

--
--
spamfree999@rrohio.com
(Remove 999 to reply to me)
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 2, 2004 6:49:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <40947665.167180078@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
> On Sat, 1 May 2004 22:32:51 -0400, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:
>
> >If you google back a few years (perhaps even five) there were
> >people selling the idea of *grounding* the HSF to improve the
> >processor speed. It's amazing what people will buy!
>
> That idea is still alive and kicking today. The latest is a grounding
> cable on this new brand of power supply available here. Some user
> purportedly see better overclocking results when one of the
> motherboard screw secures it to the board. My friend pointed out that
> the power suppy and board are already grounded in the first to begin
> with and had "empirical" data thrown into his face by users who
> "benefitted".

Yeah, audiophools buy $1000 speaker wire too.

> Personally I don't know enough to figure why it should help, anybody
> has got a better grasp of it? :p 

I can't figure out how all the perpetual-motion machines work
either. The marketing departments are rather easier to
understand though.

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 2, 2004 6:50:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <c72cs0$gqdna$1@ID-200917.news.uni-berlin.de>,
jhoremans@rogers.com says...
> > That idea is still alive and kicking today. The latest is a grounding
> > cable on this new brand of power supply available here. Some user
> > purportedly see better overclocking results when one of the
> > motherboard screw secures it to the board. My friend pointed out that
> > the power suppy and board are already grounded in the first to begin
> > with and had "empirical" data thrown into his face by users who
> > "benefitted".
> >
> > Personally I don't know enough to figure why it should help, anybody
> > has got a better grasp of it? :p 
> > --
> You could ask my cable installer!
> Blamed everything including the kitchen sink for the lack of lockup on the
> cable modem signal - his tester modem did not lock up either!
> Yes, he blamed the ground and the power outlet... had me bring an extension
> from another circuit!
> Currently a 'contractor' in the area gets the blame for 3 weeks of outages.
> Could be true.

Ask the installer if the cable modem is using the *safety* ground
as a conductor.

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 2, 2004 7:40:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

>Where do you buy pads these days? A while back the only place the average
>person could by them was by requesting a sample kit from a manufacturer
>unless you wanted to buy a thousand or so at a time.

They are over a dollar an inch and are everywhere.
http://tinyurl.com/2c69o
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 2, 2004 9:31:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Paul wrote:
> In article <1095snuaod8uo95@corp.supernews.com>, David Maynard
> <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Stacey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Max Coppin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
>>>>pad
>>>>or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Paste runs cooler, pads are easy for a dumbass to install i.e. stick one to
>>>the bottom of the supplied HS and the end user can't forget to install it.
>>
>>It's also less messy, more rugged, reliably repeatable, and readily machine
>>applied in mass production.
>>
>>Mention using thermal compound in most modern assembly facilities and
>>you're likely to be run out of the place on a rail.
>
>
> That is because engineers in mass production situations, want
> what they hope will be a zero maintenance solution.

That would depend on the engineer and his point of perspective. The classic
joke, or complaint depending on how serious you think they are about it, is
the production department complaining that design engineers don't care one
whit whether it can be 'made', leaving them stuck with THAT 'problem', and
the field service department complaining that neither care one whit whether
it can be serviced because THEY don't end up having to do it.

Or course, if you keep going, finance doesn't care WHAT it does as long as
it's on schedule and on budget and marketing only cares if it sells. Etc. etc.

People tend to put the most effort into what matters to 'their job' because
that's what they get paid for and judged by. This, btw, is why companies
have project managers leading project 'teams': cross departmental
management, inclusion, resolution of competing issues, and a corporate
goals perspective. In the example you gave, it's likely because 'zero
maintenance' was incorporated into their 'design criteria' from a corporate
perspective.

But, back to my comment about being run out of production on a rail, it's
the production people who'll run you out; not because of 'zero maintenance'
concerns but because the production folks hate using the stuff. As I
mentioned, think of motivations. It's messy and having to clean up
contamination slows production. Nozzles can clog. Rework, from inconsistent
application (which can require additional testing steps even when it's
'working right'), affects their output. People don't like getting
'chemicals' on themselves. etc. And for what? An extra couple of degrees
that isn't necessary to meet spec in the first place? (someone hold that
engineer down while we get a rope).


> Paste/grease
> needs to be reapplied regularly, any time a rising CPU temp suggests
> the paste/grease is no longer filling the gap between CPU and HSF.
> Thermal "pumping" or drying degrade just about any paste/grease,
> so at some point, the CPU/HSF interface has to be redone.
>
> There are some "gooey" solutions (look like silicon rubber) that
> can be injected into a heatsink assembly, using an injection port
> and an observation port, but the performance of that kind of solution
> is worse than a pad.
>
> For an Athlon, the combination of a bare die (i.e. limited contact
> area) and high power dissipation, really limit what will work to
> keep the processor cool.

Well, let's not exaggerate the 'limits' issue because the same thing can be
said about any processor: there are 'limits' to what will work. e.g. a 486
cooler isn't going to keep a P-III 700, or even a P233MMX, 'cool' either.

The fact is that pads are not 'outside' the 'limits'.

And while we're at it, it's worth noting that there are different kinds of
'pads' too so these generic discussions that say nothing but simply 'pads'
don't do the subject justice.

> While AMD doesn't approve of AS3, home
> builders find it works just fine. (You may want to read up on
> AMD warranty issues if you use AS3 or something similar. If
> returning a processor, make sure the processor is cleaned first.
> Don't be sloppy with the paste/grease.)
>
> Paul
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 3, 2004 12:14:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <4%7lc.2740$ZJ5.127999@news20.bellglobal.com>,
NoMail@Post2Newsgroup.Pls says...
>
> "The little lost angel" <a?n?g?e?l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com> wrote in
> message news:40947665.167180078@news.pacific.net.sg...
> > On Sat, 1 May 2004 22:32:51 -0400, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:
> >
> > >If you google back a few years (perhaps even five) there were
> > >people selling the idea of *grounding* the HSF to improve the
> > >processor speed. It's amazing what people will buy!
> >
> > That idea is still alive and kicking today. The latest is a grounding
> > cable on this new brand of power supply available here. Some user
> > purportedly see better overclocking results when one of the
> > motherboard screw secures it to the board. My friend pointed out that
> > the power suppy and board are already grounded in the first to begin
> > with and had "empirical" data thrown into his face by users who
> > "benefitted".
> >
> > Personally I don't know enough to figure why it should help, anybody
> > has got a better grasp of it? :p 
> > --
> > L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
> > If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
> :) 
> > Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
> > If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
> > But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
>
> I fundamentally agree with your views but you are not dealing with only DC
> currents. Your are dealing with high-frequency pulses with frequency
> components well into the microwave region.

By the time it gets to the power supply one had better *not* be
dealing with frequency components "well into the microwave
region". The FCC and EC take dim views of such messes.

> This means what looks like a
> ground to DC looks like a distributed mess of small inductors, capacitors
> and resistors leading to ground to these high-frequencies. It is not totally
> impossible that adding or removing a ground somewhere might "improve" the
> signal fidelity. I imagine it would be more of a hit and miss affair with it
> making no difference most of the time, worse some of the time and better the
> odd time. To say putting a ground on all heatsink fans improves the
> performance on all boards is nonsense. Give the manufacturers a little
> credit, they are well aware of these issues.

Indeed! I did quite a bit of EMI work a few years back. If
there was a way to cheaply (or even not so) improve performance,
or reduce EMI, it was done.

--
Keith
May 3, 2004 4:36:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Leythos wrote:

> In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
> l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
>> On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
>> >generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
>> >off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
>> >most people apply way to much.
>>
>> As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
>> better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
>> gets squeezed out :p 
>
> To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
> the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer.

Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!

--

Stacey
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 3, 2004 4:36:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> Leythos wrote:
>
>
>>In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
>>l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
>>
>>>On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
>>>>generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
>>>>off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
>>>>most people apply way to much.
>>>
>>>As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
>>>better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
>>>gets squeezed out :p 
>>
>>To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
>>the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer.
>
>
> Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
> it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
> stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
> out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!
>

You WANT viscosity because you don't want it walking out of the interface.

Put too much of that Radio Shack goop on a heatspreader and you can float a
heatsink with it.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 3, 2004 9:18:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Mon, 03 May 2004 00:36:43 -0400, Stacey <fotocord@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
>it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
>stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
>out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!

I've seen some of these AS stuff used. Looks like they're just
slightly more sticky and vicuous than some of my creams and what not.
So I'm pretty sure they'll get squeezed out. :p pPpP

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :) 
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
May 3, 2004 6:27:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <109bm8t8fgupfd9@corp.supernews.com>, David Maynard
<dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:

> Stacey wrote:
>
> > Leythos wrote:
> >
> >
> >>In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
> >>l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
> >>
> >>>On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
> >>>>generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
> >>>>off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
> >>>>most people apply way to much.
> >>>
> >>>As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
> >>>better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
> >>>gets squeezed out :p 
> >>
> >>To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
> >>the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer.
> >
> >
> > Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
> > it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
> > stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
> > out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!
> >
>
> You WANT viscosity because you don't want it walking out of the interface.
>
> Put too much of that Radio Shack goop on a heatspreader and you can float a
> heatsink with it.

If that Radio Shack stuff you are referring to, is the white zinc paste,
it is horrible stuff. In years past, I used it on heatsinks for an audio
amp, and the paste separates into a clear fluid and a white residue.
It left the heatsink high and dry, after only a short period. The
reason this happens, is there is no chemical change in the product
with time and heat, and the formulation is such that the chemicals
separate. This is the last product I would be searching for, to
prevent burning up an Athlon. You would be better off using toothpaste!

The AS3 product apparently changes a bit over the first several days
of operation with a warm CPU. I think the idea is, it thickens when
heated, so that once the die has settled into position, the material
stays put. The only problem with this approach, is the stuff changes
enough that it approaches a "dry" consistency over a period of
months, and that is when it needs to be changed out.

The purpose of any interface material, is to fill the air gaps, as
air is a relatively good insulator. That means, you want a film that
is thick enough to take the place of any air, and not any more than
that. When you use sil pads or phase change material, you have to
select the thickness based on the spec for surface flatness for the
two assemblies you are joining. The thermal designers I've worked
with use thicker materials than I would as a hobbyist.

And manufacturing people will do whatever you want, if you coax
them nicely and push the right buttons. (Hint: Pretend to consult
with them :-)

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 3, 2004 8:12:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Paul wrote:
> In article <109bm8t8fgupfd9@corp.supernews.com>, David Maynard
> <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Stacey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Leythos wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
>>>>l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
>>>>>>generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
>>>>>>off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
>>>>>>most people apply way to much.
>>>>>
>>>>>As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
>>>>>better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
>>>>>gets squeezed out :p 
>>>>
>>>>To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
>>>>the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer.
>>>
>>>
>>>Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
>>>it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
>>>stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
>>>out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!
>>>
>>
>>You WANT viscosity because you don't want it walking out of the interface.
>>
>>Put too much of that Radio Shack goop on a heatspreader and you can float a
>>heatsink with it.
>
>
> If that Radio Shack stuff you are referring to, is the white zinc paste,
> it is horrible stuff. In years past, I used it on heatsinks for an audio
> amp, and the paste separates into a clear fluid and a white residue.
> It left the heatsink high and dry, after only a short period. The
> reason this happens, is there is no chemical change in the product
> with time and heat, and the formulation is such that the chemicals
> separate. This is the last product I would be searching for, to
> prevent burning up an Athlon. You would be better off using toothpaste!

I hadn't observed this separation but then I haven't used it for quite a
while and, even when I did, I tended to mix it, as a sort of 'thinner'
(probably better to say lubricant), with another thermal compound.


> The AS3 product apparently changes a bit over the first several days
> of operation with a warm CPU. I think the idea is, it thickens when
> heated, so that once the die has settled into position, the material
> stays put. The only problem with this approach, is the stuff changes
> enough that it approaches a "dry" consistency over a period of
> months, and that is when it needs to be changed out.

I rather thought the 'settling' they speak of was the particles in it
seeking a more compact organization.

Kind of difficult to know if it's really 'dry' when, if properly applied,
it's not more than a few thou thick even 'at the bumps'. My 'fingertip wet
detector' just isn't that good. And I've not run across any need to change
it out over a period of months.

Having said that, I can't say, for sure, how long any particular CPU I have
has been in the 'one' place before being moved, or having it's heatsink
moved, for one reason or the other. Checking purchase records though, and
subtracting out a generous estimate for how long I experimented with
various heatsink ducting ideas, I'm pretty sure my XP1800 was in
undisturbed service for over a year before I decided to change heatsinks on
it (decided I wanted that heatsink on a new XP2400+ OC'd to 3400+). Of
course, 'making it a year' wouldn't be a very good design spec for someone
like Dell.

> The purpose of any interface material, is to fill the air gaps, as
> air is a relatively good insulator. That means, you want a film that
> is thick enough to take the place of any air, and not any more than
> that. When you use sil pads or phase change material, you have to
> select the thickness based on the spec for surface flatness for the
> two assemblies you are joining. The thermal designers I've worked
> with use thicker materials than I would as a hobbyist.

Thermal designers have to make sure the specified pad works over the entire
range of tolerances and not just for 'the one you have'. And there may be
other reasons you are not aware of (e.g. die cushioning).

Btw, phase change materials flow with applied heat so the thickness changes
from the initially observed dimensions.


> And manufacturing people will do whatever you want, if you coax
> them nicely and push the right buttons. (Hint: Pretend to consult
> with them :-)

Like most people, they will only increase their own burden if you have good
reason for them to do so. Which, of course, is the art of negotiation:
finding a mutually beneficial compromise (which may mean enumerating
benefits the other side might not be initially aware of). But in the
scenario I presented, using a messy, problematic, thermal compound instead
of a clean and easy to apply thermal pad, both of which offer a valid
technical solution, doesn't offer them anything while using the pad is no
significant disadvantage to the designing engineer.

If a production manager accepted thermal compound under those conditions
then he isn't doing his job and neither would the project manager, who
would be accepting a host of other potential problems for no valid reason.


> HTH,
> Paul
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 4, 2004 1:57:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <c74i42$ia6os$3@ID-52908.news.uni-berlin.de>,
fotocord@yahoo.com says...
> Leythos wrote:
>
> > In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
> > l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
> >> On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
> >> >generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
> >> >off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
> >> >most people apply way to much.
> >>
> >> As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
> >> better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
> >> gets squeezed out :p 
> >
> > To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
> > the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer.
>
> Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
> it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
> stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
> out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!

The stuff that came with my Retail Xeon CPU's in the syringe came out
nice and smooth, then turned to a rock before I could finish the
install. The dry paste did not compress very much, was a good .07"
thick. I used normal HSP and can't tell the diff between CPU1 (with
Intel HSP) and CPU2 with the white stuff.

--
--
spamfree999@rrohio.com
(Remove 999 to reply to me)
May 4, 2004 4:19:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

David Maynard wrote:

> Stacey wrote:

>> With the strength of the clamps on the HS's for modern CPU's, if the HSG
>> doesn't get squeezed out, then the HSG is WAY too thick in vicosity for
>> this application.
>
> Yes, well, there are a lot of different thermal compounds and who knows
> what someone is using, not to mention what processor, when they read "too
> much just gets squeezed out."
>
> Are you willing to guarantee that for every HSG in existence and whether
> it's an Athlon die or a P4 heat spreader?
>

Nope, just that "normal" white thermal paste doesn't seem to have that
problem.
--

Stacey
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 4, 2004 4:19:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>Stacey wrote:
>
>
>
>>>With the strength of the clamps on the HS's for modern CPU's, if the HSG
>>>doesn't get squeezed out, then the HSG is WAY too thick in vicosity for
>>>this application.
>>
>>Yes, well, there are a lot of different thermal compounds and who knows
>>what someone is using, not to mention what processor, when they read "too
>>much just gets squeezed out."
>>
>>Are you willing to guarantee that for every HSG in existence and whether
>>it's an Athlon die or a P4 heat spreader?
>>
>
>
> Nope, just that "normal" white thermal paste doesn't seem to have that
> problem.

The original statement didn't specify any particular thermal compound but
simply said that 'too much' wasn't a problem because it would get 'squeezed
out' and it is that generic statement I was responding to.

Virtually any zinc oxide based thermal compound is going to be white,
unless something else colors it, so I don't know what 'normal' would be.
May 4, 2004 6:21:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

David Maynard wrote:

>
> ... so I don't know what 'normal' would be.

Sorry can't help you on that front.

--

Stacey
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 4, 2004 10:47:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Mon, 03 May 2004 14:27:51 -0500, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <109bm8t8fgupfd9@corp.supernews.com>, David Maynard
><dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>> Stacey wrote:
>>
>> > Leythos wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>In article <40947765.167435750@news.pacific.net.sg>, a?n?g?e?
>> >>l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com says...
>> >>
>> >>>On Sat, 01 May 2004 22:34:45 GMT, Leythos <void@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>Xeon processors. In general, the least amount used is the best. I
>> >>>>generally put HSP on using a razor knife, and then almost scrape it all
>> >>>>off, leaving only a trace behind. To much paste is always a problem,
>> >>>>most people apply way to much.
>> >>>
>> >>>As always, I disagree with this. In general a little too much is
>> >>>better than too little. Too little is always a problem, too much just
>> >>>gets squeezed out :p 
>> >>
>> >>To much paste acts as an insulator - meaning it's not an insulator, but
>> >>the paste is too thick to provide optimal heat transfer.
>> >
>> >
>> > Again given the strength of the clamps used today on HS's, I can't imagine
>> > it not being squeezed out, at least not "normal" HSG like the RS white
>> > stuff. Maybe that conductive $25 a tube stuff if to viscus to get squeezed
>> > out? If so that's another good reason not to waste money on that stuff!
>> >
>>
>> You WANT viscosity because you don't want it walking out of the interface.
>>
>> Put too much of that Radio Shack goop on a heatspreader and you can float a
>> heatsink with it.
>
>If that Radio Shack stuff you are referring to, is the white zinc paste,
>it is horrible stuff. In years past, I used it on heatsinks for an audio
>amp, and the paste separates into a clear fluid and a white residue.
>It left the heatsink high and dry, after only a short period. The
>reason this happens, is there is no chemical change in the product
>with time and heat, and the formulation is such that the chemicals
>separate. This is the last product I would be searching for, to
>prevent burning up an Athlon. You would be better off using toothpaste!

The Radio Shack brand stuff *is* horrible IME - it seems to separate
quickly and lose its fluid carrier... leaving just a cake of white powder.
I've used other similar looking paste purchased from an electrinics parts
store which was still *paste* after 5years.

>The AS3 product apparently changes a bit over the first several days
>of operation with a warm CPU. I think the idea is, it thickens when
>heated, so that once the die has settled into position, the material
>stays put. The only problem with this approach, is the stuff changes
>enough that it approaches a "dry" consistency over a period of
>months, and that is when it needs to be changed out.
>
>The purpose of any interface material, is to fill the air gaps, as
>air is a relatively good insulator. That means, you want a film that
>is thick enough to take the place of any air, and not any more than
>that. When you use sil pads or phase change material, you have to
>select the thickness based on the spec for surface flatness for the
>two assemblies you are joining. The thermal designers I've worked
>with use thicker materials than I would as a hobbyist.

The "pink pads" are different from the phase change stuff - the latter
first goes softer under the heat, spreads and molds itself into the nooks
and crannies and then finally after a few days hardens into what feels like
a hard plastic.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 5, 2004 1:47:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>... so I don't know what 'normal' would be.
>
>
> Sorry can't help you on that front.
>

Oh. I thought since you were the one who said it you could.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 5, 2004 4:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Butter; unsalted, 985 butterfat. Replace when rancid.

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."


"Max Coppin" <maxcoppin@-no-spam-please-btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:0uBkc.449$Af6.97@newsfe1-win...
> I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
pad
> or paste? What are the pros / cons?
>
>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
May 5, 2004 4:16:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

I'm working on a combo CPU cooler/popcorn popper. Heat from the CPU is used
to heat my popcorn oil and pop my corn. Ancillary fan then blows corn into
my patented USB buttering device and comes out the now useful floppy drive
bay. Perfect combination when watching DVD movies on the PC. Gotta work on
the popping noise issue but it's getting there... ;-)


"Phil Weldon" <notdisclosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:TW4mc.7834$Hs1.3341@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Butter; unsalted, 985 butterfat. Replace when rancid.
>
> --
> Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
> For communication,
> replace "at" with the 'at sign'
> replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
> replace "dot" with "."
>
>
> "Max Coppin" <maxcoppin@-no-spam-please-btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:0uBkc.449$Af6.97@newsfe1-win...
> > I need to re-attach the heatsink to my processor, should I use a thermal
> pad
> > or paste? What are the pros / cons?
> >
> >
>
>
!