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Anonymous
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May 11, 2004 6:52:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

How hard would it be to modify the north bridge for dual processing ?

More about : nforce2 smp

Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 11, 2004 7:20:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

flekso <ivan_svaljek@email.hinet.hr> wrote:
> How hard would it be to modify the north bridge for dual processing ?

Pretty difficult, considering that only AMD makes dual-processing chipsets
for the Athlon MP family.

Yousuf Khan
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 11, 2004 10:13:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"Yousuf Khan" <news.tally.bbbl67@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:Fa6oc.34117$pp.30957@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> flekso <ivan_svaljek@email.hinet.hr> wrote:
> > How hard would it be to modify the north bridge for dual processing ?
>
> Pretty difficult, considering that only AMD makes dual-processing chipsets
> for the Athlon MP family.
>
> Yousuf Khan
>
>

I don't understand, does AMD have a license on SMP ?
I was wondering more about the kind of electronic mischief they'd run into ?
Wasn't it true in the early PC days, that there was only one bus line that
was used for SMP, like #LOCK or something ?

How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
controller from there ?
It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
2.6GHz.
http://www.tweakpc.de/tweaking/athlon_xpm_oc/athlon_oc....
Related resources
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 11, 2004 10:13:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

flekso wrote:

> How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
> controller from there ?
> It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
> many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
> 2.6GHz.

Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
know how it goes! :) 


-WD


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 12, 2004 2:21:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

flekso <flekso@vip.hr> wrote:
>> Pretty difficult, considering that only AMD makes dual-processing
>> chipsets for the Athlon MP family.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
>
> I don't understand, does AMD have a license on SMP ?
> I was wondering more about the kind of electronic mischief they'd run
> into ? Wasn't it true in the early PC days, that there was only one
> bus line that was used for SMP, like #LOCK or something ?

No-no, there just wasn't any interest by anybody else to make a chipset for
the Athlon MPs. AMD wouldn't have minded a bit if somebody else had made a
dual-processor chipset for the MPs, but most of the chipset houses decided
the money was in making chipsets for desktops and laptops running Athlon
XPs.

> How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the
> dual ram controller from there ?

Probably not that hard, in fact it would've been a perfect use for the
Athlon MPs, but Nvidia just never bothered.

> It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people
> (how many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile
> bartons at
> 2.6GHz.

There's no chance it's going to happen now. AMD is concentrating on Opterons
from now on, they're not going to bother with Athlon MPs anymore, and
neither is anybody else.

Yousuf Khan
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 12, 2004 2:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"Yousuf Khan" <news.tally.bbbl67@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:_lcoc.39131$n7P1.30797@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> flekso <flekso@vip.hr> wrote:
> >> Pretty difficult, considering that only AMD makes dual-processing
> >> chipsets for the Athlon MP family.
> >>
> >> Yousuf Khan
> >
> > I don't understand, does AMD have a license on SMP ?
> > I was wondering more about the kind of electronic mischief they'd run
> > into ? Wasn't it true in the early PC days, that there was only one
> > bus line that was used for SMP, like #LOCK or something ?
>
> No-no, there just wasn't any interest by anybody else to make a chipset
for
> the Athlon MPs. AMD wouldn't have minded a bit if somebody else had made a
> dual-processor chipset for the MPs, but most of the chipset houses decided
> the money was in making chipsets for desktops and laptops running Athlon
> XPs.
>
> > How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the
> > dual ram controller from there ?
>
> Probably not that hard, in fact it would've been a perfect use for the
> Athlon MPs, but Nvidia just never bothered.
>
> > It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people
> > (how many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile
> > bartons at
> > 2.6GHz.
>
> There's no chance it's going to happen now. AMD is concentrating on
Opterons
> from now on, they're not going to bother with Athlon MPs anymore, and
> neither is anybody else.
>
> Yousuf Khan
>
>

m-kay then :\
May 13, 2004 4:36:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Tue, 11 May 2004 18:13:52 +0200, "flekso" <flekso@vip.hr> wrote:

>"Yousuf Khan" <news.tally.bbbl67@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
>news:Fa6oc.34117$pp.30957@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>> flekso <ivan_svaljek@email.hinet.hr> wrote:
>> > How hard would it be to modify the north bridge for dual processing ?
>>
>> Pretty difficult, considering that only AMD makes dual-processing chipsets
>> for the Athlon MP family.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
>>
>>
>
>I don't understand, does AMD have a license on SMP ?
>I was wondering more about the kind of electronic mischief they'd run into ?
>Wasn't it true in the early PC days, that there was only one bus line that
>was used for SMP, like #LOCK or something ?
>
>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
>controller from there ?
>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
>2.6GHz.
>http://www.tweakpc.de/tweaking/athlon_xpm_oc/athlon_oc....
>
Why bother? K7 is obsolete ever since K8 got out the door. MSI dual
board (the cheapest) is around $200, Opteron 242 is getting close to
that - and Barton will never run Win64. If you have money to burn,
get yourself Tyan K8W Thunder and a couple of 248 - and this combo
will beat any Barton (or Xeon or anything for that matter) in most any
benchmark. By the way, MSI board is VIA based. Have not heard about
dual Nvidia board though.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2004 4:36:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

nobody@nowhere.net <MyGarbage2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
> that - and Barton will never run Win64. If you have money to burn,
> get yourself Tyan K8W Thunder and a couple of 248 - and this combo
> will beat any Barton (or Xeon or anything for that matter) in most any
> benchmark.

At least anything halfway affordable. If nothing else, you can always go
with the Tyan 4-way server board and some 848s.

--
Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

"Elder Party 2004: Cthulhu for President -- this time WE'RE the lesser
evil."
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2004 10:22:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"nobody@nowhere.net" <MyGarbage2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p 5g5a0lh2okrhq00ddt1gfdrkh32kafdu7@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 May 2004 18:13:52 +0200, "flekso" <flekso@vip.hr> wrote:
>
> >"Yousuf Khan" <news.tally.bbbl67@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
> >news:Fa6oc.34117$pp.30957@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> >> flekso <ivan_svaljek@email.hinet.hr> wrote:
> >> > How hard would it be to modify the north bridge for dual processing ?
> >>
> >> Pretty difficult, considering that only AMD makes dual-processing
chipsets
> >> for the Athlon MP family.
> >>
> >> Yousuf Khan
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I don't understand, does AMD have a license on SMP ?
> >I was wondering more about the kind of electronic mischief they'd run
into ?
> >Wasn't it true in the early PC days, that there was only one bus line
that
> >was used for SMP, like #LOCK or something ?
> >
> >How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual
ram
> >controller from there ?
> >It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
> >many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
> >2.6GHz.
> >http://www.tweakpc.de/tweaking/athlon_xpm_oc/athlon_oc....
> >
> Why bother? K7 is obsolete ever since K8 got out the door. MSI dual
> board (the cheapest) is around $200, Opteron 242 is getting close to
> that - and Barton will never run Win64. If you have money to burn,
> get yourself Tyan K8W Thunder and a couple of 248 - and this combo
> will beat any Barton (or Xeon or anything for that matter) in most any
> benchmark. By the way, MSI board is VIA based. Have not heard about
> dual Nvidia board though.

There's also the n*? issue. Opteron 240 is 314$. I'm reffering to Opteron
prices in Croatia; on the other hand dual Durons that can easily be modifed
to dual XPs(and then MPs), now that is affordable.

My single Duron @ 2330 can beat P4 3.0 in some scenarios, and that's 45 vs
277$ in a country where average sallary weighs in at about 2/3 K$.

We people don't have bukco$ enough to go the Opteron route just yet but we
sure like some other shiny chips...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 14, 2004 11:19:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

flekso <flekso@vip.hr> wrote:
> There's also the n*? issue. Opteron 240 is 314$. I'm reffering to
> Opteron prices in Croatia; on the other hand dual Durons that can
> easily be modifed to dual XPs(and then MPs), now that is affordable.
>
> My single Duron @ 2330 can beat P4 3.0 in some scenarios, and that's
> 45 vs 277$ in a country where average sallary weighs in at about 2/3
> K$.
>
> We people don't have bukco$ enough to go the Opteron route just yet
> but we sure like some other shiny chips...

Maybe, but modifying Durons to become Athlon MPs is only a solution for now.
Eventually the Opteron prices will plummet. AMD has already discontinued the
Opteron x40 series, their lowest performing Opteron family. Maybe if a
dual-CPU market starts flourishing in places like Croatia, AMD can be
convinced to start up a special line of older Opterons for sale only within
these countries like they did with the Durons last year? There has to be big
enough demand for dual-processing for it to be worth their time.

I don't think you can get cheap dual-processing Xeons either as it now
stands.

Yousuf Khan
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 14, 2004 11:19:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Yousuf Khan <news.tally.bbbl67@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> I don't think you can get cheap dual-processing Xeons either as it now
> stands.

Nope. Cheap older P3s on eBay is as close as you come... in the retail
market for dual-processor Intels, it's either Xeon(P4-based) or the 512K
cache Tualatins, which while still available, are highway robbery (as
expensive as the P4-based Xeons last I checked... and while Mhz-for-Mhz
they're faster, not enough so to make up for twice the megahertz until power
comes in as a factor...)

--
Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

"Elder Party 2004: Cthulhu for President -- this time WE'RE the lesser
evil."
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 16, 2004 6:35:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> flekso wrote:
>
> > How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
> > controller from there ?
> > It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
> > many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
> > 2.6GHz.
>
> Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
> know how it goes! :) 

You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)


--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 16, 2004 6:35:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

KR Williams wrote:

> In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
> wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
>
>>flekso wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
>>>controller from there ?
>>>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
>>>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
>>>2.6GHz.
>>
>>Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
>>know how it goes! :) 
>
>
> You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)
>
>

No, but if you lay the foil on a surface you can use
the soldering iron to deposit traces on that surface.
I've seen it done with gold foil, but not aluminum.
Should work OK for wrecking motherboards, etc.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2004 12:35:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <10afdeva7tlqnfe@corp.supernews.com>,
rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> KR Williams wrote:
>
> > In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
> > wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> >
> >>flekso wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
> >>>controller from there ?
> >>>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
> >>>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
> >>>2.6GHz.
> >>
> >>Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
> >>know how it goes! :) 
> >
> >
> > You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)
> >
> >
>
> No, but if you lay the foil on a surface you can use
> the soldering iron to deposit traces on that surface.
> I've seen it done with gold foil, but not aluminum.

One *can* solder to gold. I've done it, more often by accident
than on purpose though. :-( Aluminum is another kettle of stinky
fish though.

> Should work OK for wrecking motherboards, etc.

Sure. I noticed that that was the plan. ;-)

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2004 12:35:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

KR Williams wrote:
> In article <10afdeva7tlqnfe@corp.supernews.com>,
> rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
>
>>KR Williams wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
>>>wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>flekso wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
>>>>>controller from there ?
>>>>>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
>>>>>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
>>>>>2.6GHz.
>>>>
>>>>Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
>>>>know how it goes! :) 
>>>
>>>
>>>You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>No, but if you lay the foil on a surface you can use
>>the soldering iron to deposit traces on that surface.
>>I've seen it done with gold foil, but not aluminum.
>
>
> One *can* solder to gold. I've done it, more often by accident
> than on purpose though. :-( Aluminum is another kettle of stinky
> fish though.
>
>
>>Should work OK for wrecking motherboards, etc.
>
>
> Sure. I noticed that that was the plan. ;-)
>

The reason I saw it being done with gold was because I
had wrecked the very first motherboard I had bought for
myself about 17 or 18 years ago and was watching a friend
repair it. I had been using the tip of a screwdriver to
force something into a socket or pry loose a locking clip
- can't remember exactly anymore - and the tip slipped off
of whatever I was pushing/prying and scraped a trench across
some traces. I wonder if the circuitry on modern motherboards
is robust enough to tolerate that kind of repair job ?
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2004 2:06:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

flekso wrote:
> How hard would it be to modify the north bridge for dual processing ?

It would be completely impossible unless you're nVidia and can
dramatically redesign the inner chip workings.

The Athlon fronstside bus (EV6 bus) isn't a "bus," it's a point-to-point
connection. One "point" is the CPU, and the other "point" is the
Northbridge. It's the Northbridge chip's job to provide interconnect
with any other busses (AGP, memory, PCI/V-link/HT/etc).

The AMD 760MP SMP Northbridge provides *two* EV6 endpoints, and routes
traffic between those two and other provided busses.

The 760MP and 760MPX are the only two SMP-supporting Athlon chip sets
that exist - or ever will exist for K7s, since newer AMD chips have
moved on to Hypertransport and embedded memory controllers.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 17, 2004 9:58:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Richard Krehbiel <krehbiel@comcast.net> wrote:
> The AMD 760MP SMP Northbridge provides *two* EV6 endpoints, and routes
> traffic between those two and other provided busses.
>
> The 760MP and 760MPX are the only two SMP-supporting Athlon chip sets
> that exist - or ever will exist for K7s, since newer AMD chips have
> moved on to Hypertransport and embedded memory controllers.

Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of sharing of resources between Alpha
and Athlon because of their common bus standard? What were the
multiprocessor solutions available for Alpha?

Yousuf Khan
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 18, 2004 3:33:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <10ag8a64o0ikdec@corp.supernews.com>,
rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> KR Williams wrote:
> > In article <10afdeva7tlqnfe@corp.supernews.com>,
> > rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> >
> >>KR Williams wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
> >>>wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>flekso wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
> >>>>>controller from there ?
> >>>>>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
> >>>>>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
> >>>>>2.6GHz.
> >>>>
> >>>>Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
> >>>>know how it goes! :) 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>No, but if you lay the foil on a surface you can use
> >>the soldering iron to deposit traces on that surface.
> >>I've seen it done with gold foil, but not aluminum.
> >
> >
> > One *can* solder to gold. I've done it, more often by accident
> > than on purpose though. :-( Aluminum is another kettle of stinky
> > fish though.
> >
> >
> >>Should work OK for wrecking motherboards, etc.
> >
> >
> > Sure. I noticed that that was the plan. ;-)
> >
>
> The reason I saw it being done with gold was because I
> had wrecked the very first motherboard I had bought for
> myself about 17 or 18 years ago and was watching a friend
> repair it. I had been using the tip of a screwdriver to
> force something into a socket or pry loose a locking clip
> - can't remember exactly anymore - and the tip slipped off
> of whatever I was pushing/prying and scraped a trench across
> some traces.

Oops! I *HATE* it when that happens.

> I wonder if the circuitry on modern motherboards
> is robust enough to tolerate that kind of repair job ?

No. The technology hasn't changed much, if not gotten worse with
multi-layer boards. The only thing inbetween the screwdriver and
the traces is the solder-mask. ...little more than paint. One
learns not to force things (or at least direct the force in a
direction not compromising several $hundred).

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 18, 2004 3:33:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <rwYpc.43618$0qd.34205
@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, news.tally.bbbl67
@spamgourmet.com says...
> Richard Krehbiel <krehbiel@comcast.net> wrote:
> > The AMD 760MP SMP Northbridge provides *two* EV6 endpoints, and routes
> > traffic between those two and other provided busses.
> >
> > The 760MP and 760MPX are the only two SMP-supporting Athlon chip sets
> > that exist - or ever will exist for K7s, since newer AMD chips have
> > moved on to Hypertransport and embedded memory controllers.
>
> Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of sharing of resources between Alpha
> and Athlon because of their common bus standard? What were the
> multiprocessor solutions available for Alpha?

ISTR that that was all about the electrical design, rather than
physical. Alpha had different requirements, so I never expected
much cross-pollination.

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 18, 2004 4:33:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

KR Williams wrote:

> In article <10ag8a64o0ikdec@corp.supernews.com>,
> rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
>
>>KR Williams wrote:
>>
>>>In article <10afdeva7tlqnfe@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>KR Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
>>>>>wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>flekso wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
>>>>>>>controller from there ?
>>>>>>>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
>>>>>>>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
>>>>>>>2.6GHz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
>>>>>>know how it goes! :) 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, but if you lay the foil on a surface you can use
>>>>the soldering iron to deposit traces on that surface.
>>>>I've seen it done with gold foil, but not aluminum.
>>>
>>>
>>>One *can* solder to gold. I've done it, more often by accident
>>>than on purpose though. :-( Aluminum is another kettle of stinky
>>>fish though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Should work OK for wrecking motherboards, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sure. I noticed that that was the plan. ;-)
>>>
>>
>>The reason I saw it being done with gold was because I
>>had wrecked the very first motherboard I had bought for
>>myself about 17 or 18 years ago and was watching a friend
>>repair it. I had been using the tip of a screwdriver to
>>force something into a socket or pry loose a locking clip
>>- can't remember exactly anymore - and the tip slipped off
>>of whatever I was pushing/prying and scraped a trench across
>>some traces.
>
>
> Oops! I *HATE* it when that happens.

Yup. Kinda like getting it on with your girlfriend
and then her father's voice comes on through the
answering machine. "Honey, you might as well answer
the damned phone ... "

>
>
>>I wonder if the circuitry on modern motherboards
>>is robust enough to tolerate that kind of repair job ?
>
>
> No. The technology hasn't changed much, if not gotten worse with
> multi-layer boards. The only thing inbetween the screwdriver and
> the traces is the solder-mask. ...little more than paint. One
> learns not to force things (or at least direct the force in a
> direction not compromising several $hundred).
>

Well, like I said it was my first mobo and I had yet to learn better.
As well, it is less of an issue with current motherboards because
things seem to pop in and out of their sockets much better than they
did way back when. Either that or building a systems regularly for
more than a decade eventually gave me a knack for managing dimm socket
clips.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 19, 2004 2:18:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Mon, 17 May 2004 23:33:08 -0400, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:
>In article <rwYpc.43618$0qd.34205
>@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, news.tally.bbbl67
>@spamgourmet.com says...
>> Wasn't there supposed to be some kind of sharing of resources between Alpha
>> and Athlon because of their common bus standard? What were the
>> multiprocessor solutions available for Alpha?
>
>ISTR that that was all about the electrical design, rather than
>physical. Alpha had different requirements, so I never expected
>much cross-pollination.

There was some talk and even some prototype demos that had both AMD K7
and DEC/Compaq Alpha chips being interchangeable on motherboards with
only a BIOS flash, but I don't think any such products ever made it to
market. They were supposed to use a common "Slot B" form factor
(basically "Slot B" was to Intel's old Xeon "Slot 2" what "Slot A" was
to Intel's PII/PIII "Slot 1"). I don't think either AMD or DEC ever
sold any Slot B processors though.

The closet the two came to cross-pollinating were some
single-processor Alpha motherboards that used AMD chipsets. Physical
sockets weren't compatible with any AMD chips, but the chipsets could
be used. These things were sold into very different markets though,
so the whole idea was kind of doomed right from the get-go.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 19, 2004 3:31:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <10ajaug4ni82faf@corp.supernews.com>,
rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> KR Williams wrote:
>
> > In article <10ag8a64o0ikdec@corp.supernews.com>,
> > rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> >
> >>KR Williams wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <10afdeva7tlqnfe@corp.supernews.com>,
> >>>rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>KR Williams wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <40a147f9_7@corp.newsgroups.com>,
> >>>>>wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>flekso wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>How hard ($) would it be to only double the FSB lines, and use the dual ram
> >>>>>>>controller from there ?
> >>>>>>>It would be a real nice transitional platform for workstation people (how
> >>>>>>>many threads are you running now), coupled with two mobile bartons at
> >>>>>>>2.6GHz.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Get a nice fine-tipped soldering iron, some aluminum foil, and let us
> >>>>>>know how it goes! :) 
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You can't solder to aluminum foil, silly! ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>No, but if you lay the foil on a surface you can use
> >>>>the soldering iron to deposit traces on that surface.
> >>>>I've seen it done with gold foil, but not aluminum.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>One *can* solder to gold. I've done it, more often by accident
> >>>than on purpose though. :-( Aluminum is another kettle of stinky
> >>>fish though.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Should work OK for wrecking motherboards, etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Sure. I noticed that that was the plan. ;-)
> >>>
> >>
> >>The reason I saw it being done with gold was because I
> >>had wrecked the very first motherboard I had bought for
> >>myself about 17 or 18 years ago and was watching a friend
> >>repair it. I had been using the tip of a screwdriver to
> >>force something into a socket or pry loose a locking clip
> >>- can't remember exactly anymore - and the tip slipped off
> >>of whatever I was pushing/prying and scraped a trench across
> >>some traces.
> >
> >
> > Oops! I *HATE* it when that happens.
>
> Yup. Kinda like getting it on with your girlfriend
> and then her father's voice comes on through the
> answering machine. "Honey, you might as well answer
> the damned phone ... "

Kinda like when you look out the window and see her parents
walking up the drive? ...but that was 34 years ago. ;-)

> >>I wonder if the circuitry on modern motherboards
> >>is robust enough to tolerate that kind of repair job ?
> >
> >
> > No. The technology hasn't changed much, if not gotten worse with
> > multi-layer boards. The only thing inbetween the screwdriver and
> > the traces is the solder-mask. ...little more than paint. One
> > learns not to force things (or at least direct the force in a
> > direction not compromising several $hundred).
> >
>
> Well, like I said it was my first mobo and I had yet to learn better.

Trust me. We've all been there. I remember blowing up a scope
plugin in my first week at work (I was a technician in school).
The damned calibration tool *SHOULD have* worked (right
mainframe, wrong plugin). What I do is imagine where my tool is
going to go if something breaks and then make sure the force-
vector isn't in a line to hit any thing critical. Surely
something's going to surprise and the force pointing off into
space is better than one going into the guts. Sorta like
carving/cutting wood. Think where the sharp end is going to go
if you slip, and make sure there aren't any important (Bobit?)
parts in that path.

> As well, it is less of an issue with current motherboards because
> things seem to pop in and out of their sockets much better than they
> did way back when. Either that or building a systems regularly for
> more than a decade eventually gave me a knack for managing dimm socket
> clips.

We'll see how far things have some. The shroud for the K8 looks
a tad better thought-out than the previous stuff. There is
several $hundred in there too, so I'll go on the cautious side.

As TJW said "THINK". ...always good to remember, though not
guaranteed to work. We are human and don't always.

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 19, 2004 3:31:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

KR Williams wrote:
>
> We'll see how far things have some. The shroud for the K8 looks
> a tad better thought-out than the previous stuff. There is
> several $hundred in there too, so I'll go on the cautious side.
>

The Opty/FX/Athlon64's are different enough that I appreciated
having the opportunity to watch someone else install a couple
(his first two, as a matter of fact) before I did it myself.

It is not really any harder or easier than dealing with an
Athlon XP or a P4 - just different enough that you want to
treat it as learning a new little skill.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 20, 2004 2:17:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

In article <10alnsi4j1qsg1f@corp.supernews.com>,
rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
> KR Williams wrote:
> >
> > We'll see how far things have some. The shroud for the K8 looks
> > a tad better thought-out than the previous stuff. There is
> > several $hundred in there too, so I'll go on the cautious side.
> >
>
> The Opty/FX/Athlon64's are different enough that I appreciated
> having the opportunity to watch someone else install a couple
> (his first two, as a matter of fact) before I did it myself.

> It is not really any harder or easier than dealing with an
> Athlon XP or a P4 - just different enough that you want to
> treat it as learning a new little skill.

Iv'e been out of x86 land so long that I've not done any of the
above. (are you trying to scare me? ;-) Perhaps I should have
bought the CFO even more flowers so she would have gone for a
G5? ;-)) ...not likely to have worked either.

I think I can figure it all out, though it's all still in the
*retail* (no other reasonable choice that I can see) packaging.

--
Keith
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 21, 2004 5:56:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Wed, 19 May 2004 22:17:50 -0400, KR Williams <krw@att.biz> wrote:

>In article <10alnsi4j1qsg1f@corp.supernews.com>,
>rob.stow@sasktel.net says...
>> KR Williams wrote:
>> >
>> > We'll see how far things have some. The shroud for the K8 looks
>> > a tad better thought-out than the previous stuff. There is
>> > several $hundred in there too, so I'll go on the cautious side.
>> >
>>
>> The Opty/FX/Athlon64's are different enough that I appreciated
>> having the opportunity to watch someone else install a couple
>> (his first two, as a matter of fact) before I did it myself.
>
>> It is not really any harder or easier than dealing with an
>> Athlon XP or a P4 - just different enough that you want to
>> treat it as learning a new little skill.
>
>Iv'e been out of x86 land so long that I've not done any of the
>above. (are you trying to scare me? ;-) Perhaps I should have
>bought the CFO even more flowers so she would have gone for a
>G5? ;-)) ...not likely to have worked either.

I just did a retail Athlon64 the other day and found it much easier than
the Athlons I'd done previously. With the XPs, in fact any heatsink which
clips to the ZIF socket, there's always been the question of whether I
needed to tilt the whole heatsink at an angle to get the first latch
engaged... and whether I can then straighten and seat it on the CPU without
munging the TIM on the bottom of the heatsink.

With the Athlon64, I just plopped the heatsink straight on to the CPU, in
the middle of the retention frame of course, and the spring clip was loose
enough that I could latch the free side easily (make sure it's fully
engaged on the latch) and the other (lever) side didn't need much finger
pressure at all to latch it. Then the lever pushes over and clamps the
heatsink down - you can feel there's a lot of pressure being applied from
the lever but since it's a lever.....

>I think I can figure it all out, though it's all still in the
>*retail* (no other reasonable choice that I can see) packaging.

Check your case carefully. The Antec (SX-635) I just bought had a broken
lower front panel, which I found out about after full assembly: when I
grabbed the front bottom to pick the system up, the cracked panel mounting
pegs just broke away. There was no visible damage to the shipping carton
to bother Fedex with, so I called Antec up (no wait) and they're sending me
a new front panel - the original is taped on till it arrives.

Hurry up and get that painting done so we can all hear about this beast!

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 22, 2004 3:57:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Rob Stow <rob.stow@sasktel.net> wrote:
> The Opty/FX/Athlon64's are different enough that I appreciated
> having the opportunity to watch someone else install a couple
> (his first two, as a matter of fact) before I did it myself.
>
> It is not really any harder or easier than dealing with an
> Athlon XP or a P4 - just different enough that you want to
> treat it as learning a new little skill.

I actually will beg to differ there; heat-spreaders make for a much more
durable processor and a much easier and less nerve-wracking heat-sink
installation than the old exposed-core AMD chips did.

--
Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

"Elder Party 2004: Cthulhu for President -- this time WE'RE the lesser
evil."
!