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Weird behavior on mountaintop

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Anonymous
July 13, 2005 10:11:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

The other day I was atop Mt. Equinox, a 3840-foot peak in southwestern
VT, nominally part of Verizon's extended digital coverage (provided by
a roaming agreement with U.S. Cellular, I assume). Left to its own
devices, the phone would find a Verizon home network (perhaps in NY
state, or in central VT), connect to it for about 5 seconds with 2 or 3
bars (i.e., pretty strong signal), then disconnect for roughly 10
seconds. It kept doing this over and over. By forcing my phone to
analog mode (a Samsung A650), I was able to maintain a stable
connection.

One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the phone could see so
many towers from the mountaintop that signals were interfering with one
another. Another theory is that there was some source of periodic
interference at the mountaintop (which has a lot of broadcasting
equipment). Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks.
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 1:10:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Signal strength on CDMA does not mean you will connect a call.
Without going into technical discussion about CDMA and chips,
(I'm not talking about an electronic component made of silicone).

I'll just say that there are 'settings' that limit the effective range of
a CDMA cell. You can have signal strength, but if you are outside
of this set 'range', you won't connect a call.

You also could have experienced pilot pollution, but in this case
I'd bet the chip was set for a shorter distance than you actually
were from the cell(s)


<vxg49@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121303515.152578.217210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The other day I was atop Mt. Equinox, a 3840-foot peak in southwestern
> VT, nominally part of Verizon's extended digital coverage (provided by
> a roaming agreement with U.S. Cellular, I assume). Left to its own
> devices, the phone would find a Verizon home network (perhaps in NY
> state, or in central VT), connect to it for about 5 seconds with 2 or 3
> bars (i.e., pretty strong signal), then disconnect for roughly 10
> seconds. It kept doing this over and over. By forcing my phone to
> analog mode (a Samsung A650), I was able to maintain a stable
> connection.
>
> One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the phone could see so
> many towers from the mountaintop that signals were interfering with one
> another. Another theory is that there was some source of periodic
> interference at the mountaintop (which has a lot of broadcasting
> equipment). Anyone have any other ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 8:16:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Unlikely, but there is also reflective reinforcement (can't think of
what it's called right now)? Can't think of anything that would
give you a 10 second, regular period either.

-Quick

Richard Ness wrote:
> Signal strength on CDMA does not mean you will connect a
> call.
> Without going into technical discussion about CDMA and
> chips, (I'm not talking about an electronic component
> made of silicone).
>
> I'll just say that there are 'settings' that limit the
> effective range of a CDMA cell. You can have signal
> strength, but if you are outside
> of this set 'range', you won't connect a call.
>
> You also could have experienced pilot pollution, but in
> this case
> I'd bet the chip was set for a shorter distance than you
> actually
> were from the cell(s)
>
>
> <vxg49@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121303515.152578.217210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> The other day I was atop Mt. Equinox, a 3840-foot peak
>> in southwestern VT, nominally part of Verizon's extended
>> digital coverage (provided by a roaming agreement with
>> U.S. Cellular, I assume). Left to its own devices, the
>> phone would find a Verizon home network (perhaps in NY
>> state, or in central VT), connect to it for about 5
>> seconds with 2 or 3 bars (i.e., pretty strong signal),
>> then disconnect for roughly 10 seconds. It kept doing
>> this over and over. By forcing my phone to analog mode
>> (a Samsung A650), I was able to maintain a stable
>> connection.
>>
>> One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the
>> phone could see so many towers from the mountaintop that
>> signals were interfering with one another. Another
>> theory is that there was some source of periodic
>> interference at the mountaintop (which has a lot of
>> broadcasting equipment). Anyone have any other ideas?
>>
>> Thanks.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 8:16:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

did you try to make a call even though it was bouncing around on the
service? It probably would have worked.
sometimes the towers are not set correctly and can cause your phone to go
crazy.


"Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xGlBe.2093$mN1.622@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Unlikely, but there is also reflective reinforcement (can't think of
> what it's called right now)? Can't think of anything that would
> give you a 10 second, regular period either.
>
> -Quick
>
> Richard Ness wrote:
>> Signal strength on CDMA does not mean you will connect a
>> call.
>> Without going into technical discussion about CDMA and
>> chips, (I'm not talking about an electronic component
>> made of silicone).
>>
>> I'll just say that there are 'settings' that limit the
>> effective range of a CDMA cell. You can have signal
>> strength, but if you are outside
>> of this set 'range', you won't connect a call.
>>
>> You also could have experienced pilot pollution, but in
>> this case
>> I'd bet the chip was set for a shorter distance than you
>> actually
>> were from the cell(s)
>>
>>
>> <vxg49@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1121303515.152578.217210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> The other day I was atop Mt. Equinox, a 3840-foot peak
>>> in southwestern VT, nominally part of Verizon's extended
>>> digital coverage (provided by a roaming agreement with
>>> U.S. Cellular, I assume). Left to its own devices, the
>>> phone would find a Verizon home network (perhaps in NY
>>> state, or in central VT), connect to it for about 5
>>> seconds with 2 or 3 bars (i.e., pretty strong signal),
>>> then disconnect for roughly 10 seconds. It kept doing
>>> this over and over. By forcing my phone to analog mode
>>> (a Samsung A650), I was able to maintain a stable
>>> connection.
>>>
>>> One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the
>>> phone could see so many towers from the mountaintop that
>>> signals were interfering with one another. Another
>>> theory is that there was some source of periodic
>>> interference at the mountaintop (which has a lot of
>>> broadcasting equipment). Anyone have any other ideas?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>
>
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 6:46:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

vxg49@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the phone could see so
> many towers from the mountaintop that signals were interfering with
> one another.

I live on a hillside and find this to be true. Billing records reveal that
more than one tower is active at home. To counter it you will ususally find
coverage to be best with as much of the hill next to you as possible. For
me that means placing calls in the corner of the house next to the uphill
side of the terraced lot. Not surprisingly, cable TV reception is better in
that part of the house as well. In other parts of the house, VHF
transmitters two miles away interfere with the signal
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 7:43:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 13 Jul 2005 18:11:55 -0700, vxg49@yahoo.com wrote:

>The other day I was atop Mt. Equinox, a 3840-foot peak in southwestern
>VT, nominally part of Verizon's extended digital coverage (provided by
>a roaming agreement with U.S. Cellular, I assume). Left to its own
>devices, the phone would find a Verizon home network (perhaps in NY
>state, or in central VT), connect to it for about 5 seconds with 2 or 3
>bars (i.e., pretty strong signal), then disconnect for roughly 10
>seconds. It kept doing this over and over. By forcing my phone to
>analog mode (a Samsung A650), I was able to maintain a stable
>connection.
>
>One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the phone could see so
>many towers from the mountaintop that signals were interfering with one
>another. Another theory is that there was some source of periodic
>interference at the mountaintop (which has a lot of broadcasting
>equipment). Anyone have any other ideas?
>
>Thanks.

I had problems one week ago in Northern Vermont, in native VZW
territory (SID 300). I was hiking the Long Trail at elevations in the
vicinity of 3500 feet, and kept getting "Call Failed" on my Nokia
3589i, after two quick drops. Back at lower elevations in the car, I
could get a call through. Didn't think of trying to force analog.

Bruce
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 7:52:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Richard Ness wrote:
> Signal strength on CDMA does not mean you will connect a call.
> Without going into technical discussion about CDMA and chips,
> (I'm not talking about an electronic component made of silicone).
>
> I'll just say that there are 'settings' that limit the effective range of
> a CDMA cell. You can have signal strength, but if you are outside
> of this set 'range', you won't connect a call.

Yes, that silly speed of light constraint, causing timing shifts..

I think you meant "silicon". "Silicone" is that stuff used to make
certain enhancements to the female anatomy.

Silicon Valley is in Northern California.
Silicone Valley is in Southern California.

:) 
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 8:03:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Slobby Don wrote:
> vxg49@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the phone could see so
>>many towers from the mountaintop that signals were interfering with
>>one another.
>
> I live on a hillside and find this to be true. Billing records reveal that
> more than one tower is active at home. To counter it you will ususally find
> coverage to be best with as much of the hill next to you as possible. For
> me that means placing calls in the corner of the house next to the uphill
> side of the terraced lot. Not surprisingly, cable TV reception is better in
> that part of the house as well. In other parts of the house, VHF
> transmitters two miles away interfere with the signal

A CDMA phone can be simultaneously receiving bits from up to three
towers, combining them to better extract the data, so sometimes you WANT
to see several towers (if they are not too far away and other conditions
apply). This is how a "soft" handoff is done when you are moving from
the coverage of one tower into another.
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 8:04:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Bruce Crawford wrote:
> On 13 Jul 2005 18:11:55 -0700, vxg49@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>The other day I was atop Mt. Equinox, a 3840-foot peak in southwestern
>>VT, nominally part of Verizon's extended digital coverage (provided by
>>a roaming agreement with U.S. Cellular, I assume). Left to its own
>>devices, the phone would find a Verizon home network (perhaps in NY
>>state, or in central VT), connect to it for about 5 seconds with 2 or 3
>>bars (i.e., pretty strong signal), then disconnect for roughly 10
>>seconds. It kept doing this over and over. By forcing my phone to
>>analog mode (a Samsung A650), I was able to maintain a stable
>>connection.
>>
>>One theory to explain this odd behavior is that the phone could see so
>>many towers from the mountaintop that signals were interfering with one
>>another. Another theory is that there was some source of periodic
>>interference at the mountaintop (which has a lot of broadcasting
>>equipment). Anyone have any other ideas?
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>
> I had problems one week ago in Northern Vermont, in native VZW
> territory (SID 300). I was hiking the Long Trail at elevations in the
> vicinity of 3500 feet, and kept getting "Call Failed" on my Nokia
> 3589i, after two quick drops. Back at lower elevations in the car, I
> could get a call through. Didn't think of trying to force analog.
>
> Bruce

This could also be a result of how CDMA works. The bars indicate the
received signal strength of the base station's pilot channel. Since you
have line of sight to towers many miles away, you may be getting very
good signal strength from the tower, so you get several bars. Then your
phone transmits a "handshake" signal that gets received, but very
weakly. The CDMA protocol then calls for the base station to instruct
all units to adjust their power so that they are received at the base
station at the same strength. Yours is coming in weak but clear, and
it's instructed to increase X dB while others in the more immediate area
are instructed to decrease. Your signal can't be increased enough to be
in balance with the others, so the call is dropped.

With analog, each phone is on its own channel; your phone, being
distant, is powered up to the max, and if that produces a good enough
signal it holds the channel; otherwise the network looks to see if you
can be handed off to another cell that can receive you better. Because
there's no need to balance your power with the others, an analog call
can be maintained under circumstances where a CDMA call would be dropped.

On the other hand, the analog call at maximum power will drain your
handset's battery very quickly.

--
Michael D. Sullivan
Bethesda, MD (USA)
(Replace "example.invalid" with "com" in my address.)
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 4:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 04:04:37 GMT, "Michael D. Sullivan"
<userid@camsul.example.invalid> wrote:

>Bruce Crawford wrote:
>> I had problems one week ago in Northern Vermont, in native VZW
>> territory (SID 300). I was hiking the Long Trail at elevations in the
>> vicinity of 3500 feet, and kept getting "Call Failed" on my Nokia
>> 3589i, after two quick drops. Back at lower elevations in the car, I
>> could get a call through. Didn't think of trying to force analog.
>>
>> Bruce
>
>This could also be a result of how CDMA works. The bars indicate the
>received signal strength of the base station's pilot channel. Since you
>have line of sight to towers many miles away, you may be getting very
>good signal strength from the tower, so you get several bars. Then your
>phone transmits a "handshake" signal that gets received, but very
>weakly. The CDMA protocol then calls for the base station to instruct
>all units to adjust their power so that they are received at the base
>station at the same strength. Yours is coming in weak but clear, and
>it's instructed to increase X dB while others in the more immediate area
>are instructed to decrease. Your signal can't be increased enough to be
>in balance with the others, so the call is dropped.

Thanks much for the clear explanation ... makes sense.


Bruce
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 11:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 03:52:39 GMT, CharlesH <hoch@exemplary.invalid> chose
to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

>Richard Ness wrote:
>> Signal strength on CDMA does not mean you will connect a call.
>> Without going into technical discussion about CDMA and chips,
>> (I'm not talking about an electronic component made of silicone).
>
>I think you meant "silicon". "Silicone" is that stuff used to make
>certain enhancements to the female anatomy.
>
>Silicon Valley is in Northern California.
>Silicone Valley is in Southern California.

Although predominantly, it is not exclusively female. Certain men have been
known to get their pectorals and other muscles enhanced.

>:) 

Ditto.

--
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http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
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!