Should I go Athlon64 or Barton?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
MHz Duron system and now want something new.

I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
build a new system instead.

A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
for Barton.

Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
than that?

Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
for athlon64? more expensive memory?
125 answers Last reply
More about should athlon64 barton
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Franklin wrote:

    > Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    > MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >
    > I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    > editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

    An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.

    >
    >
    > I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    > the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    > build a new system instead.

    You could buy a new case, an Athlon XP, and new ram. That would probably
    be good if you plan to upgrade to a socket 939 Athlon 64 in 18-24 months.
    Right now socket 939 Athlon 64 chips are around $350 and up.

    >
    >
    > A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    > power for me but am I buying into obsolescence?

    Why not get an Athlon XP3000+400? It is only around $35 more than the 2500+
    and you can get the most out of PC3200 ddr ram.

    > Athlon64 is where
    > the growth will be and furture residual values

    Don't even think about residual value when dealing with computers. The Athlon 64

    and K8 based Semprons are the future, but the lower priced Athlon 64 chips
    use socket 754, and socket 939 will be gaining tremendously in popularity(and
    the socket 754 fading) starting in '05. Socket 939 Athlon 64 chips(the 3500+
    is the cheapest) start at around $350.

    > will be higher than
    > for Barton.
    >
    > Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    > than that?

    Running 64 bit software and Windows 64 bit. Even 32 bit applications
    benefit when run with a 64 bit OS.

    >
    >
    > Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    > for athlon64?

    Socket 754 mobos are around $30 more than ones for an Athlon XP.
    Socket 939 mobos are even more expensive, but will drop significantly
    in price, especially when 90nm Semprons for them appear in '05.

    > more expensive memory?

    You can use PC3200 ddr ram with both. Depending on your budget,
    when you expect to do your next upgrade, and who you might have
    in mid to give your pc to when you are ready to upgrade will be deciding
    factors. You could buy an Athlon

    You might want to buy a new case with a 350 watt or greater power
    supply(Antec?) ,an Athlon XP 3000+ 400,a new motherboard, and
    PC3200 ddr ram now, with the idea of buying a socket 939 Athlon 64
    in 18-24 months(perhaps an Athlon 64 4000+ or faster chip will be cheap then).
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Franklin (franklin_lo@mail.com) wrote...
    > Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    > MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >
    > I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    > editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

    So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade?

    > I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    > the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    > build a new system instead.

    OK.

    > A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    > power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    > the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    > for Barton.

    Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed
    with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached.

    If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your
    Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty
    negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and
    Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot....

    > Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    > than that?

    Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you
    can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow
    thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely
    attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material.
    >
    > Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    > for athlon64? more expensive memory?

    The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos
    and memory will be pricier.

    My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a
    performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then
    investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial
    limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for
    that.

    Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed,
    broke, or both.

    Ian

    --
    Ian Riches
    Bedford, UK
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    In article <MPG.1ba7db02e9da7621989766@News.Individual.Net>,
    Ian Riches <ianriches@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Franklin (franklin_lo@mail.com) wrote...
    >> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    >> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >>
    >> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    >> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    >
    >So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade?
    >
    >> I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    >> the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    >> build a new system instead.
    >
    >OK.
    >
    >> A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    >> power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    >> the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    >> for Barton.
    >
    >Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed
    >with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached.
    >
    >If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your
    >Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty
    >negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and
    >Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot....
    >


    What I've heard of Longhorn, the next full new release of Windows
    (2006?) will require a machine comparable to a dual Opteron
    in today's terms. In 2006 that machine will probably cost $500.
    (all of this is vapor, so don't hold me to it. Billy can shange hos
    mind at any time.)

    Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
    might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard
    machine.

    Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
    and good sound.

    You'll be able to buy a "Longhorn Inside" machine 3 years from
    now for less than the cheap machine you buy today. It will
    probbaly be 64 bits, but why do you care ?

    My $0.02.


    >> Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    >> than that?
    >
    >Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you
    >can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow
    >thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely
    >attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material.
    >>
    >> Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    >> for athlon64? more expensive memory?
    >
    >The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos
    >and memory will be pricier.
    >
    >My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a
    >performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then
    >investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial
    >limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for
    >that.
    >
    >Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed,
    >broke, or both.
    >
    >Ian
    >
    >--
    >Ian Riches
    >Bedford, UK


    --
    Al Dykes
    -----------
    adykes at p a n i x . c o m
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    JK wrote:
    > Franklin wrote:
    >
    >> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    >> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >>
    >> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    >> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    >
    > An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.

    Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

    Yousuf Khan
  5. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Yousuf Khan wrote:

    > JK wrote:
    > > Franklin wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    > >> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    > >>
    > >> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    > >> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    > >
    > > An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.
    >
    > Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

    A 32 bit processor under $120 would be good. My qualm is with high
    priced 32 bit processors.

    >
    >
    > Yousuf Khan
  6. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Cheers Ian.

    I'm in a similar position. Have a 2000XP system right now with 512Mb PC2100
    RAM. Running a bit hot.

    Looking for something to multitask faster (I have lots of open programs and
    play music, TV in background).

    *Very* tight budget. Have £200 to spend for new set-up (mobo, cpu and ram -
    if needed?). Any ideas?

    Cheers.

    Bobby
    "Ian Riches" <ianriches@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1ba7db02e9da7621989766@News.Individual.Net...
    > Franklin (franklin_lo@mail.com) wrote...
    >> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    >> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >>
    >> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    >> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    >
    > So what app is giving you the urge to upgrade?
    >
    >> I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    >> the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    >> build a new system instead.
    >
    > OK.
    >
    >> A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    >> power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    >> the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    >> for Barton.
    >
    > Whatever you buy, you are buying into obsolescence. It's guaranteed
    > with computers. All you can vary is how long before it is reached.
    >
    > If you keep this machine as long as you have presumably kept your
    > Duron 700, then the difference in used value will be pretty
    > negligible, IMHO. What's the difference between a Duron 700 and
    > Athlon 1200 (say) today? Not a lot....
    >
    >> Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    >> than that?
    >
    > Umm. It's faster. If you have the urge to try a 64-bit OS then you
    > can. It's good for bragging rights. Your hair will start to grow
    > thicker, and more luxurient. Women will find you strangely
    > attractive. Sorry. I've been reading too much marketing material.
    >>
    >> Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    >> for athlon64? more expensive memory?
    >
    > The whole system will cost a fair bit more, as you suggest. Mobos
    > and memory will be pricier.
    >
    > My advice is to set some parameters for the upgrade. Either set a
    > performance goal (I want it X times faster than current) and then
    > investigate acheiving that for the minimum outlay, or set a financial
    > limit (no more than UKP 500, say), and buy the fastest you can for
    > that.
    >
    > Without a real idea of what you want you may end up disappointed,
    > broke, or both.
    >
    > Ian
    >
    > --
    > Ian Riches
    > Bedford, UK
  7. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin wrote:

    > Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    > MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >
    Unless you just "want it, and the money doesn't matter", there's no reason
    you should do anything other than just upgrade your cpu. You can get close
    to the speed of a new $400 system with just a cpu upgrade and it will be
    many times faster than what you have now. The 2400+ you mentioned sounds
    very reasonable to me. I just upgraded the cpu in my brothers old 750
    Duron to an underclocked 2100+ running 1300MHz and he's happy with it.
    Didn't even want me to speed it up any more, so I lowered vcore to 1.5v to
    keep it cool and quiet. Now if he wants more speed, I can almost double it
    with his current cpu. It was the cpu listed below.

    --
    Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  8. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 18:38:05 +0000, Yousuf Khan wrote:

    > JK wrote:
    >> Franklin wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    >>> MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >>>
    >>> I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    >>> editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    >>
    >> An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.
    >
    > Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?
    >
    Now that's a simple one to answer. He can quadrupple his speed with a
    simple $50 cpu upgrade. They're cheap and most people don't need anything
    faster. I sure don't. I just want it.:-) My old XP ssytem works just about
    as well as my new A64 system for what I do most of the time.

    --
    Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  9. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    "Bobby" <bobby@europe.com> wrote:

    >I'm in a similar position. Have a 2000XP system right now with 512Mb PC2100
    >RAM. Running a bit hot.
    >
    >Looking for something to multitask faster (I have lots of open programs and
    >play music, TV in background).
    >
    >*Very* tight budget. Have £200 to spend for new set-up (mobo, cpu and ram -
    >if needed?). Any ideas?

    For a new CPU you'll want new RAM - you really do want to match the
    CPU and RAM clock frequencies. For example, for an XP3200 (200MHz fsb)
    that means PC3200 (DDR400) RAM. You can run with slower RAM and
    upgrade it later, but you wouldn't be getting the full performance the
    new CPU is capable of. What's the max processor / RAM speed your
    current board supports?

    Posting your replies under what you are quoting makes the thread
    easier to follow, which will encourage more replies.


    Tim
    --
    Guns Don’t Kill People, Rappers Do.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote:
    >JK wrote:
    [snip]
    >>
    >> An Athlon XP processor would be your best value then.
    >
    >Wha-aat!?!!!? But why would anybody want to buy a 32-bit CPU now?

    Perhaps because there are so few apps which are 64-bit only and we can
    expect plenty of 32-bit apps in the future.


    Tim
    --
    Guns Don’t Kill People, Rappers Do.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:

    >Buy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
    >might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOund/Video the motherboard
    >machine.

    I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest
    and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of
    the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the
    difference in price you could probably afford to throw the PC away in
    a year and buy another, which will undoubtedly be more powerful than
    top-of-the-range today.

    If you just want something for word processing or to surf the 'Web get
    the cheapest you can find; even todays entry level is more than
    capable for business applications and Internet use. If you're a bit
    more demanding then head for somewhere just above mid-range, where the
    best price performance is typically a couple of options beneath the
    top level.

    >Spend the money you save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
    >and good sound.

    Or save the money you'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good
    CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change.


    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  12. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin
    <franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote:

    >Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    >MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >
    >I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    >editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.

    Considering that you were getting by with the Duron 700, and
    your modest needs, there isn't any good justification for
    spending a lot more for the Athlon 64.

    >I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    >the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    >build a new system instead.

    True, anything you buy will use a lot more power, create a
    lot more heat.


    >
    >A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    >power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    >the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    >for Barton.

    Actually it's a tough call there, typically the faster CPUs
    for a given platform maintain their value better than the
    slower CPUs for the next-faster platform... someday somone
    will be looking to upgrade their CPU and will want near the
    fastest their platform can support. As for the rest of the
    parts, they'll be worth far less than you paid by the time
    they show up on your doorstep or when you leave the store
    with them.


    >Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    >than that?

    No, and you'd be buying the less mature platform,
    potentially more issues to deal with.

    >
    >Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    >for athlon64? more expensive memory?

    Yes, more expensive motherboard and heatsink (if you get a
    good/quiet heatsink), though memory prices aren't much
    different unless you buy into the hype that everyone should
    use high-end, premium priced memory. Any decent name-brand
    value-grade memory should be fine, will be a loss of a
    percent or two of performance, but the cost savings could
    easily more than offset that with a faster CPU or more
    memory capacity, hard drive, video card, etc.

    Best bang for the buck for yor needs would be something
    like:

    Athlon XP ~ $80
    (add a bit for retail Athlon w/heatsink or good 3rd parth
    'sink is addt'l $20 somewhere like http://www.svc.com when
    on sale (like Thermalright SLK-947).

    nForce2 motherboard ~ $65

    Sparkle 300W PSU FSP300-60PN ~ $35

    2 x 512MB PC3200 ~ $150


    You would have somewhat higher performance with the Athlon
    64, but for your present needs you won't benefit enough to
    notice. As for "future" use, a 2 or more years from now
    either will again be slow compared to newest CPUs at that
    time, only buy what you need when you need it.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:41:02 +0100, Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com>
    wrote:
    >
    >Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    >MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >
    >I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    >editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    >
    >I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    >the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    >build a new system instead.
    >
    >A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    >power for me but am I buying into obsolescence?

    If you buy a computer you are buying into obsolescence, regardless of
    what you put in the thing.

    > Athlon64 is where
    >the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    >for Barton.

    The difference at resale time is likely to be rather negligible.

    >Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    >than that?

    It will be faster, though will you notice it? Perhaps a more
    important question though, is the price difference small enough that
    you might as well go for the higher-end chip?

    >Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    >for athlon64? more expensive memory?

    More expensive motherboard, yes. Memory shouldn't really be more
    expensive, in some cases it might actually be cheaper. A Barton 2500+
    in an nForce2 board (such as Asus' A7N8X) will use dual-channel
    memory, ie buy it in pairs. An Athlon64 2800+ (regardless of
    motherboard) will use single channel memory. Price shouldn't change
    much though, except maybe if you want 2GB+ or more in the system.


    Here's a quick breakdown of prices for you from www.newegg.com.
    There's no particular need for any other component to be different
    between these two systems, so I'll just list the processor,
    motherboard and memory.

    Barton:
    AthlonXP 2500+ $93
    Asus A7N8X $72
    2 x 256MB PC3200 $83
    -----------
    Total $248

    Athlon64:
    Athlon64 2800+ $146
    MSI K8N Neo-FSR $107
    512MB PC3200 $69
    -----------
    Total $322


    Depending on the exact config of your systems the numbers might be
    skewed a bit one way or the other, but you're most likely looking at a
    difference of somewhere around $75. Personally I would say that this
    $75 is money well spent for pretty much anyone except those on the
    tightest budget.

    The extra performance isn't going to blow you away by any means, but
    it'll be there, and there will probably be some application down the
    line where you'll appreciate the extra performance of the Athlon64.
    Add to that the potential to run 64-bit software and operation systems
    should the need (or desire) arise and the tiny extra added security
    afforded by the NX-bit in the Athlon64 (helps prevent buffer overflow
    attacks, a la MS Blaster, Sasser, etc.) and it makes sense to me.


    On the flip side, if you decide that the extra cost is not worth it
    for you and opt to stick for a Barton chip, you might want to check
    out the 2600+. The above mentioned Newegg prices have the AthlonXP
    2600+ for $95, or only $2 more than the 2500+.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  14. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Pavl Hopwood wrote:

    > adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Bvy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
    >>might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOvnd/Video the motherboard
    >>machine.
    >
    >
    > I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest
    > and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of
    > the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the
    > difference in price yov covld probably afford to throw the PC away in
    > a year and bvy another, which will vndovbtedly be more powerfvl than
    > top-of-the-range today.
    >
    > If yov jvst want something for word processing or to svrf the 'Web get
    > the cheapest yov can find; even todays entry level is more than
    > capable for bvsiness applications and Internet vse. If yov're a bit
    > more demanding then head for somewhere jvst above mid-range, where the
    > best price performance is typically a covple of options beneath the
    > top level.
    >
    >
    >>Spend the money yov save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
    >>and good sovnd.
    >
    >
    > Or save the money yov'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good
    > CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change.
    >
    >


    yes - like I did this svmmer. vpgrade from a 750 athlon to a 2500 athlon
    barton, with 256vidram nvidia 5700, 1 gig ram, dvd-bvrner/cd-bvrner, 22
    inch Sony refvrb CRT.............800 bvcks. 200 for the monitor

    600 bvcks for a midrange compvter is cheap. 64-bit will remain irrelvant
    for another 5 yrs. (or more). The on board memory controller of the
    athlon64 is nice (20-percent faster than barton on all things).


    Bvt I svggest yov bvy cheap Barton now - then in three yrs yov can bvy
    cheap again, only that cheap will be a 3.5 Ghz Athlon64 with 4 gigs ram
    and 1-gig vid ram, blveray-bvrner.

    --
    http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

    http://www.trvthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


    As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
    instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly vnchanged.
    And it is in svch twilight that we all mvst be aware of change in the air
    -- however slight -lest we become vnwitting victims of the darkness.
    Jvstice William O. Dovglas, US Svpreme Covrt (1939-75)

    "It shows vs that there were senior people in the Bvsh administration who
    were seriovsly contemplating the vse of tortvre, and trying to figvre ovt
    whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
    criminal acts, They seem to be pvtting forward a theory that the president
    in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
    may say,"
    Tom Malinowski of Hvman Rights Watch - commenting vpon Defense
    Department Lawyer
    Will Dvnham's 56-page legalization of tortvre memo.

    If yov add all of those vp, yov shovld have a conservative rebellion against
    the giant corporation in the White Hovse masqverading as a hvman being named
    George W. Bvsh. Jvst as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
    Democrats and told, "Yov got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
    vote for
    the Democrats", this is the fate of the avthentic conservatives in the
    Repvblican Party.
    Ralph Nader - Jvne 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

    "Bvt I believe in tortvre and I will tortvre yov."
    -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
    an Iraqi prisoner.

    "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
    ovr wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
    freedom of ovr covntry.
    -Iraqi Mahdi fighter

    "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. vntil svnrise, soon American soldiers came.
    One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
    so he wovldn't kill me. The soldier was lavghing, when Yovsef cried,
    the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
    -Shihab, svrvivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

    "the absolvte convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
    Zionists
    and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
    -Don Wagner, an evangelical Sovth Carolina minister

    "Bvsh, in Avstin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
    the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
    for the president to explain to vs what the exit strategy is,' Bvsh said."
    Hovston Chronicle 4/9/99

    "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their covntry and trying to
    destabilize their covntry."
    Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

    "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
    of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along vntil there's a major
    incident and then svddenly say, 'Oh my God, shovldn't we be organized
    to deal with this?'"
    - Pavl Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribvne Fovndation conference
    on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

    "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to vse
    his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hvssein's regime
    the "aim of American foreign policy" and to vse military action becavse
    "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
    wovld "offer ovr fvll svpport in this difficvlt bvt necessary endeavor."
    Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
    Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
    Bergner,
    Pavla Dobriansky, Francis Fvkvyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
    William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
    Donald Rvmsfeld and Pavl Wolfowitz. Fovr years before 9/11, the neocons had
    Baghdad on their minds."
    -philip (vsenet)

    "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
    -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

    "I hope they will vnderstand that in order for this government to get vp
    and rvnning
    - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
    back, if I can pvt it that way,
    or limited by them, It's sovereignty bvt [some] of that sovereignty they
    are going to allow vs to exercise
    on their behalf and with their permission."
    - Powell 4/27/04

    "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
    are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
    obviovsly are not going well. Yov're going to have good days and bad days."
    On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
    moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
    moments."
    - Rvmsfeld 4/6/04

    "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
    covntry's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
    every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
    the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
    of freedom."
    ~ Bvsh the Crvsader


    RUSSERT: Are yov prepared to lose?

    BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

    RUSSERT: If yov did, what wovld yov do?

    BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
    do for the covntry.
    See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
    changing times
    here in America, too., 2/8/04


    "And that's very important for, I think, the people to vnderstand where
    I'm coming from,
    to know that this is a dangerovs world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
    president.
    I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
    war on my mind.
    - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


    "Let's talk abovt the nvclear proposition for a minvte. We know that
    based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
    these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
    he has been absolvtely devoted to trying to acqvire nvclear weapons.
    And we believe he has, in fact, reconstitvted nvclear weapons."
    - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


    "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
    Iraqis had nvclear weapons."
    - Defense Secretary Donald Rvmsfeld, 6/24/03


    "I think in this case international law
    stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
    - Richard Perle


    "He (Saddam Hvssein) has not developed any significant capability with
    respect to weapons of mass destrvction. He is vnable to project
    conventional power against his neighbovrs."
    - Colin Powell Febrvary 24 2001


    "We have been svccessfvl for the last ten years in keeping
    him from developing those weapons and we will continve to be svccessfvl."

    "He threatens not the United States."

    "Bvt I also thovght that we had pretty
    mvch removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

    'Bvt what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
    for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
    keeping him from breaking ovt and svddenly showing vp one day and saying
    "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
    - Colin Powell Febrvary 26 2001
  15. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    I say hold ovt and wait for A64 price drop, and when the new 939 mobo's do
    down in price, If yov want try a XP-mobile 2500 pair it vp with NFS-7 get
    that baby oced to 2500 MHZ , get dval channel ddr 400 ( yov can also vse it
    in yov later A64 rig) these chips are known to par with P4 3.2 EE at that
    config and yov can vse the extra money for a better vid card or larger
    hardrive (maybe SATA Raptor@ 10000k RPM ) :P jvst my 2 cents.
    "gaffo" <gaffo@vsenet.net> wrote in message
    news:VMv%c.9131$yp2.4389@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    > Pavl Hopwood wrote:
    >
    >> adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Bvy a machine in the "sweet spot" for price performance today, which
    >>>might be a midrange Athlon on a NIC/SOvnd/Video the motherboard
    >>>machine.
    >>
    >>
    >> I'd agree with that. Look for price/performance rather than latest
    >> and greatest. The difference in performance between middle and top of
    >> the range will hardly be noticeable in most applications and for the
    >> difference in price yov covld probably afford to throw the PC away in
    >> a year and bvy another, which will vndovbtedly be more powerfvl than
    >> top-of-the-range today.
    >>
    >> If yov jvst want something for word processing or to svrf the 'Web get
    >> the cheapest yov can find; even todays entry level is more than
    >> capable for bvsiness applications and Internet vse. If yov're a bit
    >> more demanding then head for somewhere jvst above mid-range, where the
    >> best price performance is typically a covple of options beneath the
    >> top level.
    >>
    >>
    >>>Spend the money yov save on the system on a nice big LCD screen,
    >>>and good sovnd.
    >>
    >>
    >> Or save the money yov'd spend a horrible big LCD screen, get a good
    >> CRT screen and get p*ssed on the spare change.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > yes - like I did this svmmer. vpgrade from a 750 athlon to a 2500 athlon
    > barton, with 256vidram nvidia 5700, 1 gig ram, dvd-bvrner/cd-bvrner, 22
    > inch Sony refvrb CRT.............800 bvcks. 200 for the monitor
    >
    > 600 bvcks for a midrange compvter is cheap. 64-bit will remain irrelvant
    > for another 5 yrs. (or more). The on board memory controller of the
    > athlon64 is nice (20-percent faster than barton on all things).
    >
    >
    > Bvt I svggest yov bvy cheap Barton now - then in three yrs yov can bvy
    > cheap again, only that cheap will be a 3.5 Ghz Athlon64 with 4 gigs ram
    > and 1-gig vid ram, blveray-bvrner.
    >
    > --
    > http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml
    >
    > http://www.trvthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm
    >
    >
    > As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
    > instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly
    > vnchanged.
    > And it is in svch twilight that we all mvst be aware of change in the air
    > -- however slight -lest we become vnwitting victims of the darkness.
    > Jvstice William O. Dovglas, US Svpreme Covrt (1939-75)
    >
    > "It shows vs that there were senior people in the Bvsh administration who
    > were seriovsly contemplating the vse of tortvre, and trying to figvre ovt
    > whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
    > criminal acts, They seem to be pvtting forward a theory that the president
    > in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law may
    > say,"
    > Tom Malinowski of Hvman Rights Watch - commenting vpon Defense Department
    > Lawyer
    > Will Dvnham's 56-page legalization of tortvre memo.
    >
    > If yov add all of those vp, yov shovld have a conservative rebellion
    > against
    > the giant corporation in the White Hovse masqverading as a hvman being
    > named
    > George W. Bvsh. Jvst as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
    > Democrats and told, "Yov got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote
    > for
    > the Democrats", this is the fate of the avthentic conservatives in the
    > Repvblican Party.
    > Ralph Nader - Jvne 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine
    >
    > "Bvt I believe in tortvre and I will tortvre yov."
    > -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
    > an Iraqi prisoner.
    >
    > "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
    > ovr wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
    > freedom of ovr covntry.
    > -Iraqi Mahdi fighter
    >
    > "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. vntil svnrise, soon American soldiers came.
    > One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
    > so he wovldn't kill me. The soldier was lavghing, when Yovsef cried,
    > the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
    > -Shihab, svrvivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.
    >
    > "the absolvte convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
    > Zionists
    > and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
    > -Don Wagner, an evangelical Sovth Carolina minister
    >
    > "Bvsh, in Avstin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
    > the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's
    > important
    > for the president to explain to vs what the exit strategy is,' Bvsh said."
    > Hovston Chronicle 4/9/99
    >
    > "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their covntry and trying to
    > destabilize their covntry."
    > Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004
    >
    > "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
    > of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along vntil there's a major
    > incident and then svddenly say, 'Oh my God, shovldn't we be organized
    > to deal with this?'"
    > - Pavl Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribvne Fovndation conference
    > on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.
    >
    > "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to
    > vse
    > his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hvssein's regime
    > the "aim of American foreign policy" and to vse military action becavse
    > "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
    > wovld "offer ovr fvll svpport in this difficvlt bvt necessary endeavor."
    > Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
    > Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
    > Bergner,
    > Pavla Dobriansky, Francis Fvkvyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
    > William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B.
    > Zoellick,
    > Donald Rvmsfeld and Pavl Wolfowitz. Fovr years before 9/11, the neocons
    > had
    > Baghdad on their minds."
    > -philip (vsenet)
    >
    > "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
    > -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.
    >
    > "I hope they will vnderstand that in order for this government to get vp
    > and rvnning
    > - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given back,
    > if I can pvt it that way,
    > or limited by them, It's sovereignty bvt [some] of that sovereignty they
    > are going to allow vs to exercise
    > on their behalf and with their permission."
    > - Powell 4/27/04
    >
    > "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
    > are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
    > obviovsly are not going well. Yov're going to have good days and bad
    > days."
    > On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
    > moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
    > moments."
    > - Rvmsfeld 4/6/04
    >
    > "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
    > covntry's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
    > every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
    > the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
    > of freedom."
    > ~ Bvsh the Crvsader
    >
    >
    > RUSSERT: Are yov prepared to lose?
    >
    > BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.
    >
    > RUSSERT: If yov did, what wovld yov do?
    >
    > BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
    > do for the covntry.
    > See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
    > changing times
    > here in America, too., 2/8/04
    >
    >
    > "And that's very important for, I think, the people to vnderstand where
    > I'm coming from,
    > to know that this is a dangerovs world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
    > president.
    > I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
    > war on my mind.
    > - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04
    >
    >
    > "Let's talk abovt the nvclear proposition for a minvte. We know that
    > based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
    > these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
    > he has been absolvtely devoted to trying to acqvire nvclear weapons.
    > And we believe he has, in fact, reconstitvted nvclear weapons."
    > - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03
    >
    >
    > "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
    > Iraqis had nvclear weapons."
    > - Defense Secretary Donald Rvmsfeld, 6/24/03
    >
    >
    > "I think in this case international law
    > stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
    > - Richard Perle
    >
    >
    > "He (Saddam Hvssein) has not developed any significant capability with
    > respect to weapons of mass destrvction. He is vnable to project
    > conventional power against his neighbovrs."
    > - Colin Powell Febrvary 24 2001
    >
    >
    > "We have been svccessfvl for the last ten years in keeping
    > him from developing those weapons and we will continve to be svccessfvl."
    >
    > "He threatens not the United States."
    >
    > "Bvt I also thovght that we had pretty
    > mvch removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."
    >
    > 'Bvt what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
    > for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
    > keeping him from breaking ovt and svddenly showing vp one day and saying
    > "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
    > - Colin Powell Febrvary 26 2001
  16. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    gaffo <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote:
    <snip all>

    Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your
    political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands
    simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too
    large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political
    statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is
    populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a
    few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift?

    J.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    "Franklin" <franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:955D9F8BA9EB031E75@127.0.0.1...
    > Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    > MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    >
    > I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    > editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    >
    > I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    > the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    > build a new system instead.
    >
    > A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    > power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    > the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    > for Barton.
    >
    > Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    > than that?
    >
    > Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    > for athlon64? more expensive memory?

    Well, if you've been happy with a Duron 700 up until fairly recently I
    suspect a new machine based on an Athlon 3000, for example, will do you
    pretty well.
    You will probably pay top money just now for Athlon 64 as it's the latest
    trendy thing, and the sweet spot for price/performance is likely a step or
    two back from the leading edge of technology.
    When you buy any computer you are buying into obsolescence, to some extent.
    AMD already have the next CPU after Athlon 64 on the drawing board I expect,
    as do Intel have the P5 or whatever in the design stage.
    My feeling is to buy for what you need now, trying to keep an eye out for
    long-term life but not be a slave to it. Upgradeability is limited by new
    developments. Look at AGP, you might have thought, a year ago that you'd
    buy, for example, a Radeon 9500 video card and upgrade to a Radeon xxxx in
    two years time perhaps. But, of course, AGP is now being replaced by PCI
    Express, so you can't do it. Similarly with processors, chances are you'd
    need a new motherboard anyway to make use of new generations of CPU.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    John Fryatt wrote:

    > "Franklin" <franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote in message
    > news:955D9F8BA9EB031E75@127.0.0.1...
    > > Hi guys, after several years I have run out of power on my old 700
    > > MHz Duron system and now want something new.
    > >
    > > I don't play games, I am not a power user, I don't do video or audio
    > > editing. I just surf and do some small office activities.
    > >
    > > I had thought of upgrading my current system to a T'bred 2400+ but
    > > the PSU is not big enough and the case is a bit small, so I will
    > > build a new system instead.
    > >
    > > A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    > > power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    > > the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    > > for Barton.
    > >
    > > Are there any other advantages of Athlon64 for a user like me other
    > > than that?
    > >
    > > Are there particular disadvantages ... e.g. more expensive mobos
    > > for athlon64? more expensive memory?
    >
    > Well, if you've been happy with a Duron 700 up until fairly recently I
    > suspect a new machine based on an Athlon 3000, for example, will do you
    > pretty well.
    > You will probably pay top money just now for Athlon 64

    Top money? An Athl 64 3000+ is only around $160, which is around the
    price of a Pentium 4 2.8 ghz, and only around $50 more than an
    Athlon XP3200+. The motherboard for an Athlon 64 is around $25
    more than a comparable one for an Athlon XP. So an Athlon 64
    doesn't have to be very expensive.

    > as it's the latest
    > trendy thing, and the sweet spot for price/performance is likely a step or
    > two back from the leading edge of technology.
    > When you buy any computer you are buying into obsolescence, to some extent.
    > AMD already have the next CPU after Athlon 64 on the drawing board I expect,
    > as do Intel have the P5 or whatever in the design stage.

    It will be nice to buy a pc with a dual core processor a few years from now.
    They might be out in a year, but will probably be quite expensive when
    first introduced.

    >
    > My feeling is to buy for what you need now, trying to keep an eye out for
    > long-term life but not be a slave to it. Upgradeability is limited by new
    > developments. Look at AGP, you might have thought, a year ago that you'd
    > buy, for example, a Radeon 9500 video card and upgrade to a Radeon xxxx in
    > two years time perhaps. But, of course, AGP is now being replaced by PCI
    > Express, so you can't do it.

    He is not a gamer. AGP will be fine for him. The benefits of PCI Express
    will be in the future for very expensive video cards.

    > Similarly with processors, chances are you'd
    > need a new motherboard anyway to make use of new generations of CPU.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    jack wrote:
    > gaffo <gaffo@vsenet.net> wrote:
    > <snip all>
    >
    > Dvde, yovr sig is a bvmmer, man. As mvch as I agree with yovr
    > political views and frvstrations entirely, yovr sig as it stands
    > simply has no place on Usenet...it's very vnpolite (meaning WAY too
    > large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) yovr political
    > statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this grovp is
    > popvlated with a large nvmber of SWM (stvpid white men) and even a
    > few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift?
    >
    > J.
    >


    I vnderstand. Tony Hill said same.

    Since yov seem to be in agreement in my political views - then yov may
    vnderstand that these are Dark Times - not jvst for some of vs bvt for
    the every existance of Liberty and America as we know it. I see Germany
    1933, and as svch I have a compvlsion as an American Citizen and Patriot
    to speak ovt in any and all ways. A dvty if yov will.


    Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.

    After Nov2 it won't matter - the sig will go then - regardless of if
    Liberty dies that day or lives.

    That sig started small two yrs ago and with each lie it grow like
    Pinocios nose. Now it is an obscenely obese sig. Sorry, if there were
    less lying from the WH and that Regime, the sig wovld be alot
    smaller.........


    peace be with yov.


    --
    http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

    http://www.trvthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


    As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
    instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly vnchanged.
    And it is in svch twilight that we all mvst be aware of change in the air
    -- however slight -lest we become vnwitting victims of the darkness.
    Jvstice William O. Dovglas, US Svpreme Covrt (1939-75)

    "It shows vs that there were senior people in the Bvsh administration who
    were seriovsly contemplating the vse of tortvre, and trying to figvre ovt
    whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
    criminal acts, They seem to be pvtting forward a theory that the president
    in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
    may say,"
    Tom Malinowski of Hvman Rights Watch - commenting vpon Defense
    Department Lawyer
    Will Dvnham's 56-page legalization of tortvre memo.

    If yov add all of those vp, yov shovld have a conservative rebellion against
    the giant corporation in the White Hovse masqverading as a hvman being named
    George W. Bvsh. Jvst as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
    Democrats and told, "Yov got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
    vote for
    the Democrats", this is the fate of the avthentic conservatives in the
    Repvblican Party.
    Ralph Nader - Jvne 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

    "Bvt I believe in tortvre and I will tortvre yov."
    -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
    an Iraqi prisoner.

    "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
    ovr wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
    freedom of ovr covntry.
    -Iraqi Mahdi fighter

    "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. vntil svnrise, soon American soldiers came.
    One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
    so he wovldn't kill me. The soldier was lavghing, when Yovsef cried,
    the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
    -Shihab, svrvivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

    "the absolvte convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
    Zionists
    and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
    -Don Wagner, an evangelical Sovth Carolina minister

    "Bvsh, in Avstin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
    the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
    for the president to explain to vs what the exit strategy is,' Bvsh said."
    Hovston Chronicle 4/9/99

    "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their covntry and trying to
    destabilize their covntry."
    Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

    "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
    of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along vntil there's a major
    incident and then svddenly say, 'Oh my God, shovldn't we be organized
    to deal with this?'"
    - Pavl Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribvne Fovndation conference
    on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

    "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to vse
    his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hvssein's regime
    the "aim of American foreign policy" and to vse military action becavse
    "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
    wovld "offer ovr fvll svpport in this difficvlt bvt necessary endeavor."
    Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
    Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
    Bergner,
    Pavla Dobriansky, Francis Fvkvyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
    William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
    Donald Rvmsfeld and Pavl Wolfowitz. Fovr years before 9/11, the neocons had
    Baghdad on their minds."
    -philip (vsenet)

    "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
    -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

    "I hope they will vnderstand that in order for this government to get vp
    and rvnning
    - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
    back, if I can pvt it that way,
    or limited by them, It's sovereignty bvt [some] of that sovereignty they
    are going to allow vs to exercise
    on their behalf and with their permission."
    - Powell 4/27/04

    "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
    are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
    obviovsly are not going well. Yov're going to have good days and bad days."
    On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
    moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
    moments."
    - Rvmsfeld 4/6/04

    "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
    covntry's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
    every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
    the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
    of freedom."
    ~ Bvsh the Crvsader


    RUSSERT: Are yov prepared to lose?

    BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

    RUSSERT: If yov did, what wovld yov do?

    BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
    do for the covntry.
    See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
    changing times
    here in America, too., 2/8/04


    "And that's very important for, I think, the people to vnderstand where
    I'm coming from,
    to know that this is a dangerovs world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
    president.
    I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
    war on my mind.
    - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


    "Let's talk abovt the nvclear proposition for a minvte. We know that
    based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
    these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
    he has been absolvtely devoted to trying to acqvire nvclear weapons.
    And we believe he has, in fact, reconstitvted nvclear weapons."
    - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


    "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
    Iraqis had nvclear weapons."
    - Defense Secretary Donald Rvmsfeld, 6/24/03


    "I think in this case international law
    stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
    - Richard Perle


    "He (Saddam Hvssein) has not developed any significant capability with
    respect to weapons of mass destrvction. He is vnable to project
    conventional power against his neighbovrs."
    - Colin Powell Febrvary 24 2001


    "We have been svccessfvl for the last ten years in keeping
    him from developing those weapons and we will continve to be svccessfvl."

    "He threatens not the United States."

    "Bvt I also thovght that we had pretty
    mvch removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

    'Bvt what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
    for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
    keeping him from breaking ovt and svddenly showing vp one day and saying
    "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
    - Colin Powell Febrvary 26 2001
  20. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Dude, get a talkshow on MSNBC. What's the point of putting quotes --
    taken out of context -- and posting them to newgroups that have nothing
    to do with what you're saying.

    gaffo wrote:
    > jack wrote:
    >
    >> gaffo <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote:
    >> <snip all>
    >>
    >> Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your
    >> political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands
    >> simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too
    >> large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political
    >> statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is
    >> populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a
    >> few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift?
    >>
    >> J.
    >>
    >
    >
    > I understand. Tony Hill said same.
    >
    > Since you seem to be in agreement in my political views - then you may
    > understand that these are Dark Times - not just for some of us but for
    > the every existance of Liberty and America as we know it. I see Germany
    > 1933, and as such I have a compulsion as an American Citizen and Patriot
    > to speak out in any and all ways. A duty if you will.
    >
    >
    > Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.
    >
    > After Nov2 it won't matter - the sig will go then - regardless of if
    > Liberty dies that day or lives.
    >
    > That sig started small two yrs ago and with each lie it grow like
    > Pinocios nose. Now it is an obscenely obese sig. Sorry, if there were
    > less lying from the WH and that Regime, the sig would be alot
    > smaller.........
    >
    >
    > peace be with you.
    >
    >
  21. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 03:03:11 +0000, gaffo wrote:

    > Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.
    >
    Doesn't offend me. It just shows your stupidity and lack of consideration
    for others. I guess you feel yourself above all others and the guidelines
    weren't meant for you to follow.

    --
    Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  22. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Plonk.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Hey, I've just read his sig.

    "Daniel" <daniel_nospam_@cavs.msstate.edu> wrote in message
    news:DvQ%c.3611$ug2.2851@fe2.texas.rr.com...
    > Dude, get a talkshow on MSNBC. What's the point of putting quotes --
    > taken out of context -- and posting them to newgroups that have nothing to
    > do with what you're saying.
    >
    > gaffo wrote:
    >> jack wrote:
    >>
    >>> gaffo <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote:
    >>> <snip all>
    >>>
    >>> Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with your
    >>> political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as it stands
    >>> simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite (meaning WAY too
    >>> large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips) your political
    >>> statements are falling more or less on deaf ears as this group is
    >>> populated with a large number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a
    >>> few VSWM (V = very). Get my drift?
    >>>
    >>> J.
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> I understand. Tony Hill said same.
    >>
    >> Since you seem to be in agreement in my political views - then you may
    >> understand that these are Dark Times - not just for some of us but for
    >> the every existance of Liberty and America as we know it. I see Germany
    >> 1933, and as such I have a compulsion as an American Citizen and Patriot
    >> to speak out in any and all ways. A duty if you will.
    >>
    >>
    >> Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.
    >>
    >> After Nov2 it won't matter - the sig will go then - regardless of if
    >> Liberty dies that day or lives.
    >>
    >> That sig started small two yrs ago and with each lie it grow like
    >> Pinocios nose. Now it is an obscenely obese sig. Sorry, if there were
    >> less lying from the WH and that Regime, the sig would be alot
    >> smaller.........
    >>
    >>
    >> peace be with you.
    >>
  24. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    > gaffo wrote:
    >> jack wrote:
    >>
    >>> gaffo <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote:
    >>> <snip all>
    >>>
    >>> Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree with
    >>> your political views and frustrations entirely, your sig as
    >>> it stands simply has no place on Usenet...it's very unpolite
    >>> (meaning WAY too large). Also, at least in this NG (.chips)
    >>> your political statements are falling more or less on deaf
    >>> ears as this group is populated with a large number of SWM
    >>> (stupid white men) and even a few VSWM (V = very). Get my
    >>> drift?


    >> Since you seem to be in agreement in my political views - then
    >> you may understand that these are Dark Times - not just for
    >> some of us but for the every existance of Liberty and America
    >> as we know it. I see Germany 1933, and as such I have a
    >> compulsion as an American Citizen and Patriot to speak out in
    >> any and all ways. A duty if you will.
    >>
    >> Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.
    >>
    >> After Nov2 it won't matter - the sig will go then - regardless
    >> of if Liberty dies that day or lives.
    >>
    >> That sig started small two yrs ago and with each lie it grow
    >> like Pinocios nose. Now it is an obscenely obese sig. Sorry,
    >> if there were less lying from the WH and that Regime, the sig
    >> would be alot


    Daniel <daniel_nospam_@cavs.msstate.edu> wrote:
    >
    > Dude, get a talkshow on MSNBC. What's the point of putting
    > quotes -- taken out of context -- and posting them to newgroups
    > that have nothing to do with what you're saying.
    >


    It's a good job he's not a muslim because then he might then have
    quoted the whole Koran in his sig!
  25. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    gaffo wrote:

    > .... 64-bit will remain irrelvant for another 5 yrs. (or more).


    AMD is there already, and now even the 800 pound gorilla
    (Intel, now down to 700 and still losing) soon will be

    so "irrelvant" is *not* accurate, especially
    given your "5 yrs (or more)" addon

    imo min/max of 12/30 *months* is more likely
    for 64-bit to become the new standard in pc's

    otoh, 32 bits *is* likely to still be usable 5+ yrs
    from now on 90+% of all pc's. maybe even 100%

    bill

    p.s.

    how many "bits" was the IBM 8088 pc in 1983?

    frankly i've forgotten, but my guess is 8
    (or at most 16)
  26. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  27. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 04:15:13 -0600, "Raj" <rajiv01@mts.net> wrote:

    >I say hold out and wait for A64 price drop, and when the new 939 mobo's do
    >down in price, If you want try a XP-mobile 2500 pair it up with NFS-7 get
    >that baby oced to 2500 MHZ , get dual channel ddr 400 ( you can also use it
    >in you later A64 rig) these chips are known to par with P4 3.2 EE at that
    >config and you can use the extra money for a better vid card or larger
    >hardrive (maybe SATA Raptor@ 10000k RPM ) :P just my 2 cents.

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  28. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  29. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 03:56:19 GMT, Daniel
    <daniel_nospam_@cavs.msstate.edu> wrote:

    >Dude, get a talkshow on MSNBC. What's the point of putting quotes --
    >taken out of context -- and posting them to newgroups that have nothing
    >to do with what you're saying.
    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  30. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  31. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  32. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips jack <jack@ibm.com> wrote:
    > Dude, your sig is a bummer, man. As much as I agree
    > with your political views and frustrations entirely,

    A number of posters equate leftism with pacifism. Why?
    Kerry's desire to get [re]elected is stronger than any personal
    conviction he might hold. Unfortunately for him, the Republican
    Party has assumed the mantle of "law&order". So he has the task of
    proving himself strong, and very likely would be _more_ bellicose
    than Bush. Nixon could pull out of Vietnam and visit China.

    Americans _will not_ tolerate a weak leader. Look how Jimmy
    Carter, one of the most well-intentioned and intelligent
    presidents ever, lost to Ronald Reagan. He appeared weak
    on Iran and the economy. GWHBush lost on the same ground.

    > your sig as it stands simply has no place on Usenet...it's
    > very unpolite (meaning WAY too large). Also, at least

    Agreed.

    > in this NG (.chips) your political statements are falling more
    > or less on deaf ears as this group is populated with a large
    > number of SWM (stupid white men) and even a few VSWM (V = very).

    "Sufficiently advanced technology gets mistaken for magic" [Clarke?]

    Sufficiently profound thinking is similarly feared.

    -- Robert
  33. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    > Look at AGP, you might have thought, a year ago that you'd
    > buy, for example, a Radeon 9500 video card and upgrade to a Radeon xxxx in
    > two years time perhaps. But, of course, AGP is now being replaced by PCI
    > Express, so you can't do it.

    I can't imagine AGP entirely disappearing within a year or two. There
    will still be a big market for AGP upgrade cards in the near future.
    Heck, you can still buy a GeForce 5200 or Radeon 9200 in PCI.
  34. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 21:18:15 +0000, borolad wrote:

    ....best argument yet, from a leftist-loon.

    --
    Keith
  35. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:16:14 -0500, willbill wrote:

    > gaffo wrote:
    >
    >> .... 64-bit will remain irrelvant for another 5 yrs. (or more).
    >
    >
    > AMD is there already, and now even the 800 pound gorilla
    > (Intel, now down to 700 and still losing) soon will be

    ....haviong lost at *least* 100lbs on Itanic.

    > so "irrelvant" is *not* accurate, especially
    > given your "5 yrs (or more)" addon

    64b is relevant now, and will become more so. THe "line" really isn't
    4GB, but more like 3GB where 64b addressing becomes "interesting. Add the
    other enhancements (and compatability) that Intel failed to notice in
    favor of attempting to lock users into Itanic...

    > imo min/max of 12/30 *months* is more likely for 64-bit to become the
    > new standard in pc's

    Perhaps. Again, the real number is 2GB, not 4GB. WHen will that become
    "standard"? Memory is rather expensive right now (perhaps because it can
    be used?). In a year?

    > otoh, 32 bits *is* likely to still be usable 5+ yrs from now on 90+% of
    > all pc's. maybe even 100%

    Hell, a P5 is good enough for 90% of the desktops. Are people going to
    upgrade these antiques to a P4? I know I skipped from the K6 family to
    the K8 because I didn't want to upgrade again soon.

    > bill
    >
    > p.s.
    >
    > how many "bits" was the IBM 8088 pc in 1983?

    Sixteen

    > frankly i've forgotten, but my guess is 8 (or at most 16)

    It was by any definition a 16 bit processor, though had an 8bit bus. It
    was identical to the 8086, other than the bus (8bs. 16b) and prefetch
    queue (4B vs. 6B). The 80186 and 80188 started out as identical
    dies, with a bond-out option.

    --
    Keith
  36. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Wes Newell wrote:

    > On Thv, 09 Sep 2004 03:03:11 +0000, gaffo wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.
    >>
    >
    > Doesn't offend me.


    thats good.


    > It jvst shows yovr stvpidity and lack of consideration
    > for others.


    My civic dvty to my Nation as a citizen is more important then my
    civility - Liberty is on the line.

    In ordinary times I'd agree with yov.

    I trvely wish these were ordinary times.


    > I gvess yov feel yovrself above all others and the gvidelines
    > weren't meant for yov to follow.


    not at all. Again, vnder ordinary times - i.e. if the very svrvival of
    ovr Civil Liberties were not vnder threat of extintion - I wovld be
    compelled to follow the civil gvidelines.

    Sadly, the state of the State is so poor that my dvty is to speak ovt
    and do all I can to defend Liberty to the best of my ability. If I have
    to choose between Nazism or "Gvildelines", I choose Liberty.


    peace.


    --
    http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml

    http://www.trvthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm


    As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
    instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly vnchanged.
    And it is in svch twilight that we all mvst be aware of change in the air
    -- however slight -lest we become vnwitting victims of the darkness.
    Jvstice William O. Dovglas, US Svpreme Covrt (1939-75)

    "It shows vs that there were senior people in the Bvsh administration who
    were seriovsly contemplating the vse of tortvre, and trying to figvre ovt
    whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
    criminal acts, They seem to be pvtting forward a theory that the president
    in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
    may say,"
    Tom Malinowski of Hvman Rights Watch - commenting vpon Defense
    Department Lawyer
    Will Dvnham's 56-page legalization of tortvre memo.

    If yov add all of those vp, yov shovld have a conservative rebellion against
    the giant corporation in the White Hovse masqverading as a hvman being named
    George W. Bvsh. Jvst as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
    Democrats and told, "Yov got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
    vote for
    the Democrats", this is the fate of the avthentic conservatives in the
    Repvblican Party.
    Ralph Nader - Jvne 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine

    "Bvt I believe in tortvre and I will tortvre yov."
    -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
    an Iraqi prisoner.

    "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
    ovr wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
    freedom of ovr covntry.
    -Iraqi Mahdi fighter

    "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. vntil svnrise, soon American soldiers came.
    One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
    so he wovldn't kill me. The soldier was lavghing, when Yovsef cried,
    the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
    -Shihab, svrvivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.

    "the absolvte convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
    Zionists
    and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
    -Don Wagner, an evangelical Sovth Carolina minister

    "Bvsh, in Avstin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
    the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
    for the president to explain to vs what the exit strategy is,' Bvsh said."
    Hovston Chronicle 4/9/99

    "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their covntry and trying to
    destabilize their covntry."
    Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004

    "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
    of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along vntil there's a major
    incident and then svddenly say, 'Oh my God, shovldn't we be organized
    to deal with this?'"
    - Pavl Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribvne Fovndation conference
    on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.

    "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to vse
    his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hvssein's regime
    the "aim of American foreign policy" and to vse military action becavse
    "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
    wovld "offer ovr fvll svpport in this difficvlt bvt necessary endeavor."
    Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
    Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
    Bergner,
    Pavla Dobriansky, Francis Fvkvyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
    William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
    Donald Rvmsfeld and Pavl Wolfowitz. Fovr years before 9/11, the neocons had
    Baghdad on their minds."
    -philip (vsenet)

    "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
    -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.

    "I hope they will vnderstand that in order for this government to get vp
    and rvnning
    - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
    back, if I can pvt it that way,
    or limited by them, It's sovereignty bvt [some] of that sovereignty they
    are going to allow vs to exercise
    on their behalf and with their permission."
    - Powell 4/27/04

    "We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
    are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
    obviovsly are not going well. Yov're going to have good days and bad days."
    On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
    moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
    moments."
    - Rvmsfeld 4/6/04

    "I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
    covntry's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
    every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
    the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
    of freedom."
    ~ Bvsh the Crvsader


    RUSSERT: Are yov prepared to lose?

    BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.

    RUSSERT: If yov did, what wovld yov do?

    BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
    do for the covntry.
    See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
    changing times
    here in America, too., 2/8/04


    "And that's very important for, I think, the people to vnderstand where
    I'm coming from,
    to know that this is a dangerovs world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
    president.
    I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
    war on my mind.
    - pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04


    "Let's talk abovt the nvclear proposition for a minvte. We know that
    based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
    these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
    he has been absolvtely devoted to trying to acqvire nvclear weapons.
    And we believe he has, in fact, reconstitvted nvclear weapons."
    - Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03


    "I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
    Iraqis had nvclear weapons."
    - Defense Secretary Donald Rvmsfeld, 6/24/03


    "I think in this case international law
    stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
    - Richard Perle


    "He (Saddam Hvssein) has not developed any significant capability with
    respect to weapons of mass destrvction. He is vnable to project
    conventional power against his neighbovrs."
    - Colin Powell Febrvary 24 2001


    "We have been svccessfvl for the last ten years in keeping
    him from developing those weapons and we will continve to be svccessfvl."

    "He threatens not the United States."

    "Bvt I also thovght that we had pretty
    mvch removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."

    'Bvt what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
    for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
    keeping him from breaking ovt and svddenly showing vp one day and saying
    "look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
    - Colin Powell Febrvary 26 2001
  37. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Take that damn signature and stuff it up your ass!


    "gaffo" <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote in message
    news:aQ60d.9557$yp2.8676@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    > Wes Newell wrote:
    >
    > > On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 03:03:11 +0000, gaffo wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.


    DONE!
  38. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    borolad@myowseintheboro.org wrote:
    > *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*

    ** PLONK **

    --
    Reply to rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca
    Do not remove anything.
  39. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:00:07 +0000, Rob Stow wrote:

    > borolad@myowseintheboro.org wrote:
    >> *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
    >
    > ** PLONK **

    Indeed. ...and a good suggestion for all!

    --
    Keith
  40. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  41. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    *'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``' ¸ô¶ó - Cull the O/T Shite '``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
  42. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 13:54:40 GMT, "John Fryatt"
    <jrf1@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    <snip>

    >Look at AGP, you might have thought, a year ago that you'd
    >buy, for example, a Radeon 9500 video card and upgrade to a Radeon xxxx in
    >two years time perhaps. But, of course, AGP is now being replaced by PCI
    >Express, so you can't do it. Similarly with processors, chances are you'd
    >need a new motherboard anyway to make use of new generations of CPU.

    Not true.
    according to that 2-year plan, one year has elapsed. There
    are still new AGP models to come, for example nVida 6n00
    series, and other lesser alternatives should remain in the
    market for at least a few more years... today you can even
    find a new Geforce2, why assume today's contemporary cards
    will disappear any faster?
  43. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote:
    > A Barton 2500+ (with maybe an Asus A78NX mobo) is more than enough
    > power for me but am I buying into obsolescence? Athlon64 is where
    > the growth will be and furture residual values will be higher than
    > for Barton.

    Future residual values? These are computers, not real estate -- odds are by
    the time you need to get a new machine, you'll have trouble getting more
    than beer money for the machine.

    I've had trouble giving away some of the machines I've had.

    --
    Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

    "I do have a cause though. It is obscenity. I'm for it." - Tom Lehrer
  44. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    "gaffo" <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote in message
    news:aQ60d.9557$yp2.8676@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    > Wes Newell wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 03:03:11 +0000, gaffo wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Feel free to *plonk* me it my sign offends.
    >>>
    >>
    >> Doesn't offend me.
    >
    >
    >
    > thats good.
    >
    >
    >
    >> It just shows your stupidity and lack of consideration
    >> for others.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > My civic duty to my Nation as a citizen is more important then my
    > civility - Liberty is on the line.

    How about the rest of the world? Do you actually think everybody else on
    the whole planet actually cares about your particular political belief?

    Why don't you target Bush's electorate with your views instead of the rest
    of the world (those of us that have NG/internet access, anyway)?

    Dave
  45. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    In article news:<pan.2004.09.10.03.12.54.707614@att.bizzzz>, Keith wrote:
    > [WillBill wrote]
    > > how many "bits" was the IBM 8088 pc in 1983?
    >
    > Sixteen
    >
    > > frankly i've forgotten, but my guess is 8 (or at most 16)
    >
    > It was by any definition a 16 bit processor, though had an 8bit bus. It
    > was identical to the 8086, other than the bus (8bs. 16b) and prefetch
    > queue (4B vs. 6B).

    It's an interesting question ... though not as interesting as it was in
    1983. I used to have a rule-of-thumb for estimating the "bittedness" of
    CPUs that went something like this:

    The 8088 had an 8-bit external data bus, 16-bit general-purpose registers,
    16-bit stack pointer, and 20-bit addressing range (being a bit generous,
    considering the segmented addressing model). Taking an average of those
    four gives 15 bits. Near enough.

    The 8086 was the same apart from the 16-bit data bus (and, yes, the longer
    instruction prefetch queue - I'd forgotten about that) so let's call it 17
    bits.

    Compare that with the Z80 (8+16[1]+16+16=14 bits) the 6502 beloved of
    Apple II and PET user (8+8+8+16=10 bits) and the 68000 (32+32+32+24=30
    bits). Considering that these chips were all available when the PC was
    designed: I know which chip *I'd* have used!

    Intel didn't manage to beat that 30-bit value until the '386 made it up to
    32.

    [1] That's counting HL as a 16-bit GP register, which some might say was
    cheating. The Z80's accumulator was 8 bits, and counting that instead
    would give an overall "bittedness" of 12.

    Cheers,
    Daniel.
  46. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:58:21 +0100, Daniel James wrote:

    > In article news:<pan.2004.09.10.03.12.54.707614@att.bizzzz>, Keith wrote:
    >> [WillBill wrote]
    >> > how many "bits" was the IBM 8088 pc in 1983?
    >>
    >> Sixteen
    >>
    >> > frankly i've forgotten, but my guess is 8 (or at most 16)
    >>
    >> It was by any definition a 16 bit processor, though had an 8bit bus. It
    >> was identical to the 8086, other than the bus (8bs. 16b) and prefetch
    >> queue (4B vs. 6B).
    >
    > It's an interesting question ... though not as interesting as it was in
    > 1983. I used to have a rule-of-thumb for estimating the "bittedness" of
    > CPUs that went something like this:
    >
    > The 8088 had an 8-bit external data bus, 16-bit general-purpose registers,
    > 16-bit stack pointer, and 20-bit addressing range (being a bit generous,
    > considering the segmented addressing model). Taking an average of those
    > four gives 15 bits. Near enough.

    Why didn't you average in the year of introduction? The best measure of
    "bitness" I've come across is the width of the FX register file. ...or
    perhaps the index register width (usueally the same thing).

    What do you call a PDP8? Some of them had a serial (1b) ALU. The NatSemi
    PACE had an 8-bit ALU, but 16b registers and addressing.

    BTW, the segmented model wasn't all that difficult to use. Well large
    data structures were a PITA, but large code was simple enough.

    <snip>

    --
    Keith
  47. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    Snip 8<

    > I can't imagine AGP entirely disappearing within a year or two. There
    > will still be a big market for AGP upgrade cards in the near future. Heck,
    > you can still buy a GeForce 5200 or Radeon 9200 in PCI.

    Yes, very handy for adding extra monitors to the computer. Too bad very few
    games make use of extra monitors.
  48. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
    > On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:16:14 -0500, willbill wrote:
    >> (Intel, now down to 700 and still losing) soon will be
    > ...haviong lost at *least* 100lbs on Itanic.

    And another 100# on the P7 catch-up core.
    And some too on the P7 Celeron, crippled _worse_
    that the original L2-less Celeron 266.

    > Hell, a P5 is good enough for 90% of the desktops.

    Yep! I use one at my GFs. MS-win95 and 8 MB hurt worse
    than 200 MHz. Maybe now that her son has a nice new machine
    (XP 2200) I can load a text-mode Linux. Then that machine
    will be in the realm of "indistinguishably fast".

    -- Robert
  49. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware (More info?)

    NASCAR from EAsports is asome with 3 montiors :)
    "Dave" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:hFh0d.25850$D7.12351@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
    > Snip 8<
    >
    >> I can't imagine AGP entirely disappearing within a year or two. There
    >> will still be a big market for AGP upgrade cards in the near future.
    >> Heck, you can still buy a GeForce 5200 or Radeon 9200 in PCI.
    >
    > Yes, very handy for adding extra monitors to the computer. Too bad very
    > few games make use of extra monitors.
    >
Ask a new question

Read More

CPUs Hardware