Price difference between Intel & AMD systems

Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?

I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
(I don't think memory depends on processor type)

Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent more than an
equivalent AMD system"?
59 answers Last reply
More about price difference intel systems
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Franklin wrote:

    > Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    > an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?

    Same power for what? In Doom 3 for example, an Athlon 64 3500+ beats
    anything that Intel makes, even chips at almost 3x the price.

    http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

    >
    >
    > I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    >
    > Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent more than an
    > equivalent AMD system"?

    No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By benchmarks?
    If so, then you need to figure out what applications you run , and how often
    you run each, then come up with a weighted average performance level
    for each chip based on your usage patterns. Then you can make a
    comparison.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK wrote:
    >
    > Franklin wrote:
    >
    > > Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    > > an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?
    >
    > Same power for what? In Doom 3 for example, an Athlon 64 3500+ beats
    > anything that Intel makes, even chips at almost 3x the price.

    But nobody in their right mind would spend money on the Intel Extreme
    Edition version. It was made for a particular purpose at a particular
    time, and I understand that it is now discontinued. Hence it's ludicrous
    to keep referring to "AMD beats Intel at 3x the price", but that's the
    sort of arguments being used by AMD fanatics.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Johannes H Andersen wrote:

    > JK wrote:
    > >
    > > Franklin wrote:
    > >
    > > > Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    > > > an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?
    > >
    > > Same power for what? In Doom 3 for example, an Athlon 64 3500+ beats
    > > anything that Intel makes, even chips at almost 3x the price.
    >
    > But nobody in their right mind would spend money on the Intel Extreme
    > Edition version. It was made for a particular purpose at a particular
    > time

    To compete against the Athlon 64 FX-53. It didn't do a good job at that though.
    However since it is the best gaming chip Intel sells, a number of them
    probably sold anyway.

    > , and I understand that it is now discontinued.

    It is? I heard that the 3.2 ghz was discontinued. I doubt Intel would discontinue
    the 3.4 ghz one unless they came out with a replacement for it(perhaps a
    3.6 ghz one?).

    > Hence it's ludicrous
    > to keep referring to "AMD beats Intel at 3x the price"

    Not really. For those who love playing Doom 3 it is important.

    > , but that's the
    > sort of arguments being used by AMD fanatics.

    Fanatics? LOL!
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:54:01 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
    <johs@ezouvwnmzusxsizefitterzxursaxzoe.com> wrote:

    >
    >
    >JK wrote:
    >>
    >> Franklin wrote:
    >>
    >> > Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    >> > an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?
    >>
    >> Same power for what? In Doom 3 for example, an Athlon 64 3500+ beats
    >> anything that Intel makes, even chips at almost 3x the price.
    >
    >But nobody in their right mind would spend money on the Intel Extreme
    >Edition version. It was made for a particular purpose at a particular
    >time, and I understand that it is now discontinued. Hence it's ludicrous
    >to keep referring to "AMD beats Intel at 3x the price", but that's the
    >sort of arguments being used by AMD fanatics.

    ya and nobody in their right mind should of bought a P4 when the P4
    first came out (slower then P3) but Intel sold millions of them.

    EE is discontinued?, last I read Intel is doing the same thing AMD is on
    the high end, when a new faster EE/FX is released the previous version
    is discontinued.

    Ed
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "JK" <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote in message
    news:414C5CFB.CECF9770@netscape.net...
    >
    >
    > Johannes H Andersen wrote:
    >
    > > JK wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference
    between
    > > > > an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?
    > > >
    > > > Same power for what? In Doom 3 for example, an Athlon 64 3500+ beats
    > > > anything that Intel makes, even chips at almost 3x the price.
    > >
    > > But nobody in their right mind would spend money on the Intel Extreme
    > > Edition version. It was made for a particular purpose at a particular
    > > time
    >
    > To compete against the Athlon 64 FX-53. It didn't do a good job at that
    though.
    > However since it is the best gaming chip Intel sells, a number of them
    > probably sold anyway.
    >
    > > , and I understand that it is now discontinued.
    >
    > It is? I heard that the 3.2 ghz was discontinued. I doubt Intel would
    discontinue
    > the 3.4 ghz one unless they came out with a replacement for it(perhaps a
    > 3.6 ghz one?).

    They are changing the Extreme range to the LGA775 processors and moving the
    FSB to 1066. nd to the prescott core I assume. They will be expensive
    still tho.......
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:

    > Franklin wrote:
    >
    >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    >> same power?

    -- snip --

    >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    >>
    >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    >
    > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.

    I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.

    That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.

    The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB memory,
    sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and 80 GN HDD.

    But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    porceesor compared to Intel.

    Hope that helps.
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Franklin" <franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:9568B06CF333F31E75@130.133.1.4...
    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Franklin wrote:
    > >
    > >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    > >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    > >> same power?
    >
    > -- snip --
    >
    > >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    > >>
    > >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    > >
    > > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    >
    > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    > No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >
    > That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.
    >
    > The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB memory,
    > sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and 80 GN
    HDD.
    >
    > But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    > porceesor compared to Intel.
    >
    > Hope that helps.
    >

    AMD will be a cheaper version and will do everything you need.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:20:36 +0100, Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com>
    wrote:

    >JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Franklin wrote:
    >>
    >>> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    >>> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    >>> same power?
    >
    >-- snip --
    >
    >>> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    >>> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    >>>
    >>> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    >>> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    >>
    >> No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    >> benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    >> applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    >> with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    >> on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    >
    >I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    >No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >
    >That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.
    >
    >The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB memory,
    >sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and 80 GN HDD.
    >
    >But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    >porceesor compared to Intel.

    >
    >Hope that helps.

    Might want to take a look here to get some ideas...
    http://www.pricewatch.com/
    see combos...
    Motherboard/CPU Combos
    Mother Combos w/Memory

    No games. No video etc..., then what are you going to do with it? If
    you just want a PC to surf/email then you probably don't even need 1GB
    of ram, 512MB would be enough, a 2500+ may even be overkill, AMD's
    Durons are pretty impressive for their price too.

    Ed
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:20:36 +0100, Franklin wrote:

    > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    > No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >
    Then you really don't need much power.

    > That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and
    > Intel.
    >
    > The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB
    > memory, sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics
    > and 80 GN HDD.
    >
    > But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    > porceesor compared to Intel.
    >
    Then compare an AMD 2500+ MB combo to a P4 2.6GHz MB combo. A quick
    comparison on pricewatch puts the cheapest AMD 2500+combo at $93 and the
    cheapest 2.6GHz P4 combo at $190, or $171 for a 2.53GHz P4 combo.

    --
    Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On 18/09/2004 Wes Newell wrote:

    > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:20:36 +0100, Franklin wrote:
    >

    [snipped]

    > Then compare an AMD 2500+ MB combo to a P4 2.6GHz MB combo. A quick
    > comparison on pricewatch puts the cheapest AMD 2500+combo at $93 and
    > the cheapest 2.6GHz P4 combo at $190, or $171 for a 2.53GHz P4 combo.

    Where do you find items in the UK priced in USD - or is your pound sign
    broken?

    --
    Jeff Gaines - Damerham Hampshire UK
    Posted with XanaNews 1.16.4.6
    http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/d7xananews.htm
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Franklin wrote:

    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Franklin wrote:
    > >
    > >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    > >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    > >> same power?
    >
    > -- snip --
    >
    > >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    > >>
    > >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    > >
    > > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    >
    > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.

    In that case an Athlon XP system would give you the best value.
    An Athlon XP3000+ at around $100 beats a $220 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
    in Business Winstone 2004.

    http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

    >
    > No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >
    > That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.
    >
    > The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB memory,
    > sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and 80 GN HDD.
    >
    > But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    > porceesor compared to Intel.

    A good basic motherboard for an Athlon XP is cheap. Only around $50-60.

    >
    >
    > Hope that helps.
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK wrote:
    >
    > Franklin wrote:
    >
    > > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    > > >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    > > >> same power?
    > >
    > > -- snip --
    > >
    > > >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > > >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    > > >>
    > > >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > > >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    > > >
    > > > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > > > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > > > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > > > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > > > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    > >
    > > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    >
    > In that case an Athlon XP system would give you the best value.
    > An Athlon XP3000+ at around $100 beats a $220 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
    > in Business Winstone 2004.
    >
    > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

    And on the same link, the Pentium 4 3.0 GHz Northwood beats the
    Athlon XP3000+ in Content Creation Winstone 2004. Where do you get
    those prices from? The Athlon XP are being replaced by less performing
    Semprons for same PR numbers.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Johannes H Andersen wrote:

    > JK wrote:
    > >
    > > Franklin wrote:
    > >
    > > > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    > > > >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    > > > >> same power?
    > > >
    > > > -- snip --
    > > >
    > > > >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > > > >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > > > >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    > > > >
    > > > > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > > > > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > > > > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > > > > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > > > > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    > > >
    > > > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    > >
    > > In that case an Athlon XP system would give you the best value.
    > > An Athlon XP3000+ at around $100 beats a $220 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
    > > in Business Winstone 2004.
    > >
    > > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6
    >
    > And on the same link, the Pentium 4 3.0 GHz Northwood beats the
    > Athlon XP3000+ in Content Creation Winstone 2004. Where do you get

    > those prices from?

    www.pricewatch.com

    > The Athlon XP are being replaced by less performing
    > Semprons for same PR numbers.

    The Sempron model number are meant to compare it to the Celeron.
    Athlon XP chips are still available. It is not certain how much longer
    they will still be available.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK wrote:
    >
    > Johannes H Andersen wrote:
    >
    > > JK wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    > > > > >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    > > > > >> same power?
    > > > >
    > > > > -- snip --
    > > > >
    > > > > >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > > > > >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > > > > >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > > > > > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > > > > > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > > > > > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > > > > > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    > > > >
    > > > > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    > > >
    > > > In that case an Athlon XP system would give you the best value.
    > > > An Athlon XP3000+ at around $100 beats a $220 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
    > > > in Business Winstone 2004.
    > > >
    > > > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6
    > >
    > > And on the same link, the Pentium 4 3.0 GHz Northwood beats the
    > > Athlon XP3000+ in Content Creation Winstone 2004. Where do you get
    >
    > > those prices from?
    >
    > www.pricewatch.com

    Intel Pentium 4 3.0 GHz 800 MHz dual channel OEM ............$177

    AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 2.16 GHz 400 MHz single channel OEM ..... $98

    Not really much difference considering the total price of the PC.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Johannes H Andersen wrote:

    > JK wrote:
    > >
    > > Johannes H Andersen wrote:
    > >
    > > > JK wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Franklin wrote:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >> Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    > > > > > >> difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    > > > > > >> same power?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > -- snip --
    > > > > >
    > > > > > >> I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > > > > > >> (I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    > > > > > >>
    > > > > > >> Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > > > > > >> more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    > > > > > > benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    > > > > > > applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    > > > > > > with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    > > > > > > on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    > > > >
    > > > > In that case an Athlon XP system would give you the best value.
    > > > > An Athlon XP3000+ at around $100 beats a $220 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
    > > > > in Business Winstone 2004.
    > > > >
    > > > > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6
    > > >
    > > > And on the same link, the Pentium 4 3.0 GHz Northwood beats the
    > > > Athlon XP3000+ in Content Creation Winstone 2004. Where do you get
    > >
    > > > those prices from?
    > >
    > > www.pricewatch.com
    >
    > Intel Pentium 4 3.0 GHz 800 MHz dual channel OEM ............$177

    A Pentium 4 3.2 ghz performs worse than an Athlon XP 3000+
    running Business Winstone 2004. Perhaps you should compare a
    Pentium 4 3ghz to an Athlon XP 2500+ or 2800+ for running business
    applications. One could choose an Athlon 64 3000+ for less than
    the cost of a Pentium 4 3ghz.

    >
    >
    > AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 2.16 GHz 400 MHz single channel OEM ..... $98
    >
    > Not really much difference considering the total price of the PC.

    Very funny. An Athlon XP 2500+ is only around $65. An XP 2500+ 333
    is around $75. Why should someone pay around $100 more than they need to?

    "Not really much difference considering the total price of the PC."

    That excuse doesn't make sense. Using that type of excuse one could
    say that spending $10,000 on a couch doesn't make much of difference
    than buying a $2,000 one, since the cost of the house with the couch won't
    be so different in percentage terms with each alternative.

    An extra $100 could buy a DVD writer or a second hard drive. It could be
    saved for future upgrades.
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:

    >That excuse doesn't make sense. Using that type of excuse one could
    >say that spending $10,000 on a couch doesn't make much of difference
    >than buying a $2,000 one, since the cost of the house with the couch won't
    >be so different in percentage terms with each alternative.

    We're neither talking about an item with a £8000 price difference (is
    your pound key broken?) or one which has an value in it's own right;
    it's simply a component of the overall system.

    Few people would disagree that an Intel-based PC costs a little more
    than a comparable AMD-based system but it's hardly unaffordable in the
    context of the overall cost. Some people prefer not to pay the
    premium whereas others do not.

    The same people who buy AMD because they're cheaper might conceivably
    pay twice as much for, say, a high-end RAM or a top of the range
    graphics card when parts priced at half the price would give very
    similar performance, or pay a premium for OCZ or TwinMOS memory or
    Hercules or Sapphire graphics cards over a cheaper functionally
    similar equivalents. Fact is any reason for choosing any component
    over another might seem no less whimsical to some people than the
    reasons some people prefer one chip manufacturer over another.

    One of the *few* reasons for building your own PC is to have this
    degree of choice and flexibility so I find it incredible that
    essentially like-minded people can get so hung-up about other peoples
    choices!

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Paul Hopwood wrote:

    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    > >That excuse doesn't make sense. Using that type of excuse one could
    > >say that spending $10,000 on a couch doesn't make much of difference
    > >than buying a $2,000 one, since the cost of the house with the couch won't
    > >be so different in percentage terms with each alternative.
    >
    > We're neither talking about an item with a £8000 price difference (is
    > your pound key broken?)

    Not everyone lives in the UK. Most of Europe has adopted to the Euro.
    Why hasn't the UK adopted the Euro?

    > or one which has an value in it's own right;
    > it's simply a component of the overall system.

    A couch is a component of a furnished house.

    >
    >
    > Few people would disagree that an Intel-based PC costs a little more
    > than a comparable AMD-based system but it's hardly unaffordable in the
    > context of the overall cost.

    Neither is a $10,000 couch compared to a $2,000 one, but is the extra
    expense justified?

    > Some people prefer not to pay the
    > premium whereas others do not.
    >
    > The same people who buy AMD because they're cheaper

    Many buy AMD for better performance.

    > might conceivably
    > pay twice as much for, say, a high-end RAM or a top of the range
    > graphics card when parts priced at half the price would give very
    > similar performance, or pay a premium for OCZ or TwinMOS memory or
    > Hercules or Sapphire graphics cards over a cheaper functionally
    > similar equivalents. Fact is any reason for choosing any component
    > over another might seem no less whimsical to some people than the
    > reasons some people prefer one chip manufacturer over another.
    >
    > One of the *few* reasons for building your own PC is to have this
    > degree of choice and flexibility so I find it incredible that
    > essentially like-minded people can get so hung-up about other peoples
    > choices!

    The worst part about choosing a Pentium 4 is that the vast majority of Pentium
    4
    processors out there are 32 bit chips. How will people feel if they buy a
    32 bit processor in '04, then see great 64 bit software for sale in '05.
    Will they buy a 64 bit processor and new motherboard then, and be
    cursing that they were talked into buying a high priced 32 bit processor
    in 2004?

    >
    >
    > --
    > >iv< Paul >iv<
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:13:32 +0100, Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com>
    wrote:
    >
    >Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    >an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?

    In a word, no.

    >I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    >(I don't think memory depends on processor type)

    To a certain extent memory does depend on the motherboard and/or
    processor. For example, some setups (for both AMD and Intel) use
    single channel memory while others use dual channel memory (ie memory
    must be added in pairs). Some AMD systems, most notably the older
    Socket 940 Athlon64 FX chips, require the use of registered memory,
    while pretty much all others use unregistered memory.

    >Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent more than an
    >equivalent AMD system"?

    Well, first off, defining "equivalent" is not a very easy thing to do.
    In some applications Intel's P4 design tends to do pretty well, while
    in others AMD's AthlonXP line does well and in others still it's AMD's
    Athlon64 line that really pulls ahead. So equivalency here depends
    largely on what application is most important to you.

    What's more, prices are rather fluid and tend to change a lot
    depending on where in the price/performance scale you are looking.
    For example, Intel's top-end P4 Extreme Edition chips are VERY
    expensive ($900+), and generally perform about the same as an Athlon64
    3500+ ($365) or 3700+ ($500). On the other hand, if you were to
    compare a P4 3.0GHz, it would usually perform more or less on par with
    AMD's Athlon64 3000+ (again, depending on the applications you use),
    where here AMD's processor is only about $20 cheaper.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:20:36 +0100, Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com>
    wrote:
    >
    >I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    >No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >
    >That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.
    >
    >The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB memory,
    >sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and 80 GN HDD.

    If you're going to use integrated graphics, stick to either Intel, ATI
    or nVidia chipsets. SiS boards have VERY weak integrated graphics,
    but even they are MUCH better than the trash that VIA puts out.

    Interesting note about the Barton 2500+, it's now actually more
    expensive than the Barton 2600+. Why? I really don't know. Only
    thing I can think of is that overclockers feel that the Barton 2500+
    is somehow a better processor.

    >But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    >porceesor compared to Intel.

    Well, here's some numbers to toss out, all prices from www.newegg.com,
    all using retail boxed processors (which include a heatsink and fan,
    plus 3 year warranty). Note that these will not be the cheapest
    prices you'll find from the Pricewatch bottom-feeders because Newegg
    is, from all accounts, a reliable vendor and not some fly-by-night
    shop.

    AMD system:
    AthlonXP 2600+ $94
    MSI K7N2GM-L $72
    PGI 2x512MB PC2700 $166
    Total: $332

    Intel Celeron D system
    Celeron D 335 2.8GHz $111
    MSI 865G NEO2-PLS $95
    PDP 2x512MB PC3200 $159
    Total: $365

    Intel P4 system
    P4 2.4C $157
    MSI 865G NEO2-PLS $95
    PDP 2x512MB PC3200 $159
    Total: $411


    All three of these systems are likely to be close enough in
    performance that you won't notice the difference, though at a guess I
    would say that the AthlonXP system would be the fastest, followed by
    the P4 system with the Celeron being the slowest.

    Anyway, comparing the price/performance of the AthlonXP vs. Celeron
    system here, that would give you about a 10% difference in price when
    taking just these components, or probably about a 5% difference in
    price for the system as a whole.


    Now, mind you, if your headers are to be believed, your over on the
    other side of the pond, so prices might be a bit different there.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:

    >> >That excuse doesn't make sense. Using that type of excuse one could
    >> >say that spending $10,000 on a couch doesn't make much of difference
    >> >than buying a $2,000 one, since the cost of the house with the couch won't
    >> >be so different in percentage terms with each alternative.

    >> We're neither talking about an item with a £8000 price difference (is
    >> your pound key broken?)

    >Not everyone lives in the UK. Most of Europe has adopted to the Euro.
    >Why hasn't the UK adopted the Euro?

    I read the posting in uk.comp.homebuilt, which is a UK-based group. I
    must presume therefore the OP is in the UK or the posting would be
    off-topic.

    >> or one which has an value in it's own right;
    >> it's simply a component of the overall system.

    >A couch is a component of a furnished house.

    On it's own couch has no value and the house will not function without
    it?

    >> might conceivably
    >> pay twice as much for, say, a high-end RAM or a top of the range
    >> graphics card when parts priced at half the price would give very
    >> similar performance, or pay a premium for OCZ or TwinMOS memory or
    >> Hercules or Sapphire graphics cards over a cheaper functionally
    >> similar equivalents. Fact is any reason for choosing any component
    >> over another might seem no less whimsical to some people than the
    >> reasons some people prefer one chip manufacturer over another.

    >> One of the *few* reasons for building your own PC is to have this
    >> degree of choice and flexibility so I find it incredible that
    >> essentially like-minded people can get so hung-up about other peoples
    >> choices!

    >The worst part about choosing a Pentium 4 is that the vast majority of Pentium
    >4
    >processors out there are 32 bit chips. How will people feel if they buy a
    >32 bit processor in '04, then see great 64 bit software for sale in '05.
    >Will they buy a 64 bit processor and new motherboard then, and be
    >cursing that they were talked into buying a high priced 32 bit processor
    >in 2004?

    I could get drawn into a P4/AMD or 32-bit vs 64-bit argument but you
    seem to missing the point somewhat.

    You evidently have your reasons for liking AMD Athlon-64s while other
    people have different reasons for preferring alternative products,
    all of which are valid and people choose how to spend their own money
    as they see fit. Isn't that what PC building is all about, namely
    choice?

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
    news:6tgrk0thoccme3rf87gn6bg4ot8red3dr3@4ax.com...
    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >>Not everyone lives in the UK. Most of Europe has adopted to the Euro.
    >>Why hasn't the UK adopted the Euro?
    >
    > I read the posting in uk.comp.homebuilt, which is a UK-based group. I
    > must presume therefore the OP is in the UK or the posting would be
    > off-topic.
    >

    Ah! Ok... Note: This was cross posted to comp.sys.intel, alt.comp.hardware,
    hardware.overclocking.amd etc......

    Carlo
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "JK" <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote in message
    news:414DB175.CE930E55@netscape.net...

    > Not everyone lives in the UK. Most of Europe has adopted to the Euro.
    > Why hasn't the UK adopted the Euro?

    This is OT..

    His ISP, rcn.com , is in the USA.... 105 Carnegie Center, Princeton, NJ
    08540
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Tony Hill wrote:

    > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:13:32 +0100, Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > >Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    > >an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?
    >
    > In a word, no.
    >
    > >I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    > >(I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    >
    > To a certain extent memory does depend on the motherboard and/or
    > processor. For example, some setups (for both AMD and Intel) use
    > single channel memory while others use dual channel memory (ie memory
    > must be added in pairs). Some AMD systems, most notably the older
    > Socket 940 Athlon64 FX chips, require the use of registered memory,
    > while pretty much all others use unregistered memory.
    >
    > >Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent more than an
    > >equivalent AMD system"?
    >
    > Well, first off, defining "equivalent" is not a very easy thing to do.
    > In some applications Intel's P4 design tends to do pretty well, while
    > in others AMD's AthlonXP line does well and in others still it's AMD's
    > Athlon64 line that really pulls ahead. So equivalency here depends
    > largely on what application is most important to you.
    >
    > What's more, prices are rather fluid and tend to change a lot
    > depending on where in the price/performance scale you are looking.
    > For example, Intel's top-end P4 Extreme Edition chips are VERY
    > expensive ($900+), and generally perform about the same as an Athlon64
    > 3500+ ($365) or 3700+ ($500). On the other hand, if you were to
    > compare a P4 3.0GHz, it would usually perform more or less on par with
    > AMD's Athlon64 3000+ (again, depending on the applications you use),
    > where here AMD's processor is only about $20 cheaper.

    Which wouldn't be so bad if the Pentium 4 being discussed was a 64 bit one.
    Unfortunately it is a 32 bit one. Assigning no extra value to the Athlon 64's
    64 bit mode doesn't seem to make much sense. In 2005 many of those
    who bought a high priced 32 bit processor in '04 might become upset
    that they didn't use foresight and buy a 64 bit processor. I wonder what great
    64 bit applications we will see in 2005. I wonder what 32 bit applications will
    be ported to 64 bits and show tremendous improvements in performance
    when the 64 bit is run compared to the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64
    or Opteron. Here is a link to one application already out in 64 bits whose
    64 bit version runs 25% faster than the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64.

    http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=257&p=1


    Other applications might show a much greater performance increase.

    >
    >
    > -------------
    > Tony Hill
    > hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK wrote:
    >
    [...]
    > >
    > > AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 2.16 GHz 400 MHz single channel OEM ..... $98
    > >
    > > Not really much difference considering the total price of the PC.
    >
    > Very funny. An Athlon XP 2500+ is only around $65. An XP 2500+ 333
    > is around $75. Why should someone pay around $100 more than they need to?

    And you base this comparison on a single Business Benchmark test? That
    test could have a large I/O element and thus depend on other hardware
    factors. And I just pointed out to you that on the very same site, the
    P4 3.0 GHz beats the AMD Athlon XP 3000+ on Content Creation Benchmark.
    You have to look at the whole performance spectrum. Not everybody run
    databases or are interested in business tests. The Intels perform
    traditionally very well for numerical modeling problems with vectors
    and matrices. Special libraries are optimized for Intel. Also the
    simplicity of plugging in an Intel P4 without having to worry about
    many things.
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Johannes H Andersen wrote:
    >
    > And you base this comparison on a single Business Benchmark test?

    Did you notice what the OP said he was doing with his PC? No games - no
    video - no content creation - no 'nuttin' but surfin' and makin' word docs.
    The OP could get by with a PIII 800 and any speedy HDD, but since he's doing
    nuttin' but office stuff - that would be the appropriate benchmark to use
    for comparisons.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:

    >Which wouldn't be so bad if the Pentium 4 being discussed was a 64 bit one.
    >Unfortunately it is a 32 bit one. Assigning no extra value to the Athlon 64's
    >64 bit mode doesn't seem to make much sense. In 2005 many of those
    >who bought a high priced 32 bit processor in '04 might become upset
    >that they didn't use foresight and buy a 64 bit processor. I wonder what great
    >64 bit applications we will see in 2005. I wonder what 32 bit applications will
    >be ported to 64 bits and show tremendous improvements in performance
    >when the 64 bit is run compared to the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64
    >or Opteron. Here is a link to one application already out in 64 bits whose
    >64 bit version runs 25% faster than the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64.

    Perhaps similar to the reaction of the "let's buy 64-bit because it's
    the latest and greatest thing" brigade when technologies such as BTX,
    PCI-Express, faster FSBs, new sockets etc hit the market en-mass in
    2005 and render their "latest and greatest" machines obsolete. Then
    they might well wonder why they didn't buy 32-bit machines, have
    saving themselves some money and wait until they actually needed it?

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Paul Hopwood wrote:

    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    > >Which wouldn't be so bad if the Pentium 4 being discussed was a 64 bit one.
    > >Unfortunately it is a 32 bit one. Assigning no extra value to the Athlon 64's
    > >64 bit mode doesn't seem to make much sense. In 2005 many of those
    > >who bought a high priced 32 bit processor in '04 might become upset
    > >that they didn't use foresight and buy a 64 bit processor. I wonder what great
    > >64 bit applications we will see in 2005. I wonder what 32 bit applications will
    > >be ported to 64 bits and show tremendous improvements in performance
    > >when the 64 bit is run compared to the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64
    > >or Opteron. Here is a link to one application already out in 64 bits whose
    > >64 bit version runs 25% faster than the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64.
    >
    > Perhaps similar to the reaction of the "let's buy 64-bit because it's
    > the latest and greatest thing" brigade when technologies such as BTX,
    > PCI-Express, faster FSBs, new sockets etc hit the market en-mass in
    > 2005 and render their "latest and greatest" machines obsolete. Then
    > they might well wonder why they didn't buy 32-bit machines, have
    > saving themselves some money and wait until they actually needed it?

    Buying a low priced 32 bit Athlon XP or Sempron might make sense,
    especially for someone who runs only business software. Buying a 32
    bit Pentium 4 at around the price of an Athlon 64 doesn't make much
    sense for most people(notice I said most people, as there will be a few
    who will say that more than 50% of their pc usage is video editing, and
    they have no plans to ever want to upgrade to 64 bit editing software).

    >
    >
    > --
    > >iv< Paul >iv<
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:44:50 -0400, JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    >Tony Hill wrote:
    >
    >> Well, first off, defining "equivalent" is not a very easy thing to do.
    >> In some applications Intel's P4 design tends to do pretty well, while
    >> in others AMD's AthlonXP line does well and in others still it's AMD's
    >> Athlon64 line that really pulls ahead. So equivalency here depends
    >> largely on what application is most important to you.
    >>
    >> What's more, prices are rather fluid and tend to change a lot
    >> depending on where in the price/performance scale you are looking.
    >> For example, Intel's top-end P4 Extreme Edition chips are VERY
    >> expensive ($900+), and generally perform about the same as an Athlon64
    >> 3500+ ($365) or 3700+ ($500). On the other hand, if you were to
    >> compare a P4 3.0GHz, it would usually perform more or less on par with
    >> AMD's Athlon64 3000+ (again, depending on the applications you use),
    >> where here AMD's processor is only about $20 cheaper.
    >
    >Which wouldn't be so bad if the Pentium 4 being discussed was a 64 bit one.
    >Unfortunately it is a 32 bit one. Assigning no extra value to the Athlon 64's
    >64 bit mode doesn't seem to make much sense. In 2005 many of those
    >who bought a high priced 32 bit processor in '04 might become upset
    >that they didn't use foresight and buy a 64 bit processor. I wonder what great
    >64 bit applications we will see in 2005.

    Don't hold your breath for too much. 64-bit is nothing new, it's been
    around for 10+ years in other processors. The benefits and drawbacks
    are well known. Usually those drawbacks (pointers twice as large and
    therefore twice as much memory use/cache use/bandwidth use) outweigh
    the benefits and applications tend to be slower unless you really need
    64-bit integers (very rare for most apps) or you need more than ~2GB
    of addressable memory (the real reason for 64-bit).

    Of course, all is not equal in x86-64, as AMD also did a bit of
    tidying and doubled the number of integer registers. This will tend
    to make applications about 5% to 10% faster. For example, for SPEC
    CINT2000 base, AMD showed an 8.9% improvement overall. However in
    that 8.9% improvement there were three tests (181.mcf, 197.parser and
    300.twolf) that ran slower, two that ran MUCH faster (186.crafty was
    41% faster while 252.eon was 49% faster), and all the rest that were a
    little bit faster.

    Of course, all this will be for naught for 95%+ of all users if
    Microsoft doesn't get their act together and get WinXP for x64
    released sometime this decade.

    > I wonder what 32 bit applications will
    >be ported to 64 bits and show tremendous improvements in performance
    >when the 64 bit is run compared to the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64
    >or Opteron. Here is a link to one application already out in 64 bits whose
    >64 bit version runs 25% faster than the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64.
    >
    >http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=257&p=1

    More important than the 25% improvement is the issue they ran into on
    the first page, some things were just not possible on a 32-bit machine
    due to lack of memory address space. Kind of flies in the face of
    those who say 64-bit is not necessary on the desktop for the next 5+
    years.

    >Other applications might show a much greater performance increase.

    Some will. Some applications will show a 100% improvement in
    performance. Others could easily show a 10% loss in performance.
    Most will be about 5-10% faster. Not much, but it's free, so hey, why
    not?

    I do tend to agree with you, AMD's processors are often a better buy
    these days even if the price is the same. However, that wasn't what
    the original poster asked.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Tony Hill wrote:

    > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:44:50 -0400, JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    > >
    > >Tony Hill wrote:
    > >
    > >> Well, first off, defining "equivalent" is not a very easy thing to do.
    > >> In some applications Intel's P4 design tends to do pretty well, while
    > >> in others AMD's AthlonXP line does well and in others still it's AMD's
    > >> Athlon64 line that really pulls ahead. So equivalency here depends
    > >> largely on what application is most important to you.
    > >>
    > >> What's more, prices are rather fluid and tend to change a lot
    > >> depending on where in the price/performance scale you are looking.
    > >> For example, Intel's top-end P4 Extreme Edition chips are VERY
    > >> expensive ($900+), and generally perform about the same as an Athlon64
    > >> 3500+ ($365) or 3700+ ($500). On the other hand, if you were to
    > >> compare a P4 3.0GHz, it would usually perform more or less on par with
    > >> AMD's Athlon64 3000+ (again, depending on the applications you use),
    > >> where here AMD's processor is only about $20 cheaper.
    > >
    > >Which wouldn't be so bad if the Pentium 4 being discussed was a 64 bit one.
    > >Unfortunately it is a 32 bit one. Assigning no extra value to the Athlon 64's
    > >64 bit mode doesn't seem to make much sense. In 2005 many of those
    > >who bought a high priced 32 bit processor in '04 might become upset
    > >that they didn't use foresight and buy a 64 bit processor. I wonder what great
    > >64 bit applications we will see in 2005.
    >
    > Don't hold your breath for too much. 64-bit is nothing new, it's been
    > around for 10+ years in other processors.

    Do any of the other 64 bit chips have integrated memory controllers?

    > The benefits and drawbacks
    > are well known.

    Are they?

    > Usually those drawbacks (pointers twice as large and
    > therefore twice as much memory use/cache use/bandwidth use) outweigh
    > the benefits and applications tend to be slower unless you really need
    > 64-bit integers (very rare for most apps) or you need more than ~2GB
    > of addressable memory (the real reason for 64-bit).
    >
    > Of course, all is not equal in x86-64, as AMD also did a bit of
    > tidying and doubled the number of integer registers. This will tend
    > to make applications about 5% to 10% faster. For example, for SPEC
    > CINT2000 base, AMD showed an 8.9% improvement overall. However in
    > that 8.9% improvement there were three tests (181.mcf, 197.parser and
    > 300.twolf) that ran slower, two that ran MUCH faster (186.crafty was
    > 41% faster while 252.eon was 49% faster), and all the rest that were a
    > little bit faster.
    >
    > Of course, all this will be for naught for 95%+ of all users if
    > Microsoft doesn't get their act together and get WinXP for x64
    > released sometime this decade.
    >
    > > I wonder what 32 bit applications will
    > >be ported to 64 bits and show tremendous improvements in performance
    > >when the 64 bit is run compared to the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64
    > >or Opteron. Here is a link to one application already out in 64 bits whose
    > >64 bit version runs 25% faster than the 32 bit version on an Athlon 64.
    > >
    > >http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=257&p=1
    >
    > More important than the 25% improvement is the issue they ran into on
    > the first page, some things were just not possible on a 32-bit machine
    > due to lack of memory address space. Kind of flies in the face of
    > those who say 64-bit is not necessary on the desktop for the next 5+
    > years.
    >
    > >Other applications might show a much greater performance increase.
    >
    > Some will. Some applications will show a 100% improvement in
    > performance. Others could easily show a 10% loss in performance.
    > Most will be about 5-10% faster. Not much, but it's free, so hey, why
    > not?
    >
    > I do tend to agree with you, AMD's processors are often a better buy
    > these days even if the price is the same. However, that wasn't what
    > the original poster asked.
    >
    > -------------
    > Tony Hill
    > hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:39:04 +0100, Tim Auton
    <tim.auton@uton.groupSexWithoutTheY> wrote:

    >The Celeron may be a dog, but it really doesn't matter much for an
    >office system.
    >

    The P4 is a dog

    >
    >Tim
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    JK wrote:
    >> Don't hold your breath for too much. 64-bit is nothing new, it's
    >> been around for 10+ years in other processors.
    >
    > Do any of the other 64 bit chips have integrated memory controllers?

    The Sun UltraSparc 3 & 4 do. I think one of the Alphas had an integrated
    controller too, but it was a RAMBUS controller, so it wasn't quite the same
    thing as what's currently needed.

    Yousuf Khan
  32. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:55:30 -0400, JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    >Tony Hill wrote:
    >
    >> Don't hold your breath for too much. 64-bit is nothing new, it's been
    >> around for 10+ years in other processors.
    >
    >Do any of the other 64 bit chips have integrated memory controllers?

    Yes, most of them do these days. Sun UltraSparc 3 and US4, the HPaq
    Alpha EV7 and IBM Power5 all have integrated memory controllers. I'm
    fairly certain that there is at least one 64-bit MIPS core out there
    with an integrated memory controller.

    Nothing particularly unique about integrated memory controllers or
    64-bit, the only thing that Athlon64/Opteron do is bring these
    technologies alongside the x86 instruction set and a much lower price
    than most others.

    >> The benefits and drawbacks
    >> are well known.
    >
    >Are they?

    Yes, in fact they are. There's really nothing new about 64-bit, same
    idea has been used in virtually every processor architecture on the
    planet other than x86 for the past 10 years.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  33. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:11:32 -0400, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca>
    wrote:
    <snip>
    >>Do any of the other 64 bit chips have integrated memory controllers?
    >
    >Yes, most of them do these days. Sun UltraSparc 3 and US4, the HPaq
    >Alpha EV7 and IBM Power5 all have integrated memory controllers. I'm
    >fairly certain that there is at least one 64-bit MIPS core out there
    >with an integrated memory controller.

    Does Intel have a CPU in the works that use an integrated memory
    controller?
    thanks,
    Ed

    <snip>
    >-------------
    >Tony Hill
    >hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  34. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:

    >
    > How about you guys drop c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips from
    > your crossposting ?
    >
    > Absolutely none of the regulars from this newsgroup
    > are participating in this thread. Don't ask me
    > why it was ever cross-posted here.


    Hi Rob, I am the OP and I must aplogize if I am including a group which is
    irrelevant to my original question which was ...

    ------- BEGIN QUOTE -------
    Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?

    I am thinking of just the processor and mobo. (I don't think memory depends
    on processor type)

    Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent more than an
    equivalent AMD system"?
    ------- END QUOTE -------

    My thinking for including c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips in the original posting is
    that the essential difference bewteen an Intel and an AMD system is the mobo
    chipset (and of course the cpu).

    I figured that you guys in c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips would know about relative
    pricing of this sort of thing and about the cost the mobos that include
    these chips. Am I off-topic?
  35. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com> wrote:
    > Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
    >> How about you guys drop c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips from
    >> your crossposting ?
    >>
    >> Absolutely none of the regulars from this newsgroup are
    >> participating in this thread. Don't ask me why it was
    >> ever cross-posted here.

    Absence of postings isn't proof of a lack of interest.
    We all miss stuff. The subject _is_ topical, if inflammatory.

    > Hi Rob, I am the OP and I must aplogize if I am including a
    > group which is irrelevant to my original question which was ...

    > ------- BEGIN QUOTE ------- Is there a rough rule of thumb
    > which indicates the price difference between an AMD system and
    > an Intel system of the same power?

    No generally acknowledged rule. Roughly US$100 retail systems.
    Less at the low end/parts, more at the high end/mobile.

    > I am thinking of just the processor and mobo. (I don't think
    > memory depends on processor type)

    Currently true. For one _interesting_ period Intel systems
    were tied to RDRAM for an additional premium.

    > Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    > more than an equivalent AMD system"? ------- END QUOTE -------

    I wouldn't put it in % terms because much of a system's cost
    is in other stuff (MS-WinXP licence).


    > My thinking for including c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips in the original
    > posting is that the essential difference bewteen an Intel and
    > an AMD system is the mobo chipset (and of course the cpu).

    > I figured that you guys in c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips would know
    > about relative pricing of this sort of thing and about the cost
    > the mobos that include these chips. Am I off-topic?

    I wouldn't say so. I'm less sure about a.c.h.o.a . This is a
    very general, high-level question, and they are more into details.

    -- Robert
  36. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Franklin wrote:

    > Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>How about you guys drop c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips from
    >>your crossposting ?
    >>
    >>Absolutely none of the regulars from this newsgroup
    >>are participating in this thread. Don't ask me
    >>why it was ever cross-posted here.
    >
    >
    >
    > Hi Rob, I am the OP and I must aplogize if I am including a group which is
    > irrelevant to my original question which was ...
    >
    > ------- BEGIN QUOTE -------
    > Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price difference between
    > an AMD system and an Intel system of the same power?
    >
    > I am thinking of just the processor and mobo. (I don't think memory depends
    > on processor type)
    >
    > Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent more than an
    > equivalent AMD system"?
    > ------- END QUOTE -------
    >
    > My thinking for including c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips in the original posting is
    > that the essential difference bewteen an Intel and an AMD system is the mobo
    > chipset (and of course the cpu).
    >
    > I figured that you guys in c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips would know about relative
    > pricing of this sort of thing and about the cost the mobos that include
    > these chips. Am I off-topic?

    No, I don't think it is off-topic. It just didn't
    seem to be garnishing any interest from the readers of
    c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips. And I was probably in a
    grumpy old man kind of funk when I made that comment,
    for which I sincerely apologize.

    The reason I was surprised it was cross-posted here
    is that none of the people who were participating in the
    thread seemed to regulars or even occasional visitors
    to c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips. Cross-posting to groups
    one does not normally participate in is not very common -
    spammers aside, of course.


    --
    Reply to rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca
    Do not remove anything.
  37. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Franklin wrote:
    > Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> How about you guys drop c.s.i.pc.hardware.chips from
    >> your crossposting ?
    >>
    >> Absolutely none of the regulars from this newsgroup
    >> are participating in this thread. Don't ask me
    >> why it was ever cross-posted here.
    >
    >
    > Hi Rob, I am the OP and I must aplogize if I am including a group
    > which is irrelevant to my original question which was ...

    Well, actually now that Rob has answered, I guess it means csiphc has
    muddled into the mix. :-)

    Actually, I'm seeing Tony Hill, Robert R., Ed. and a few others answering
    too, so it looks like it's relevant again. :-)

    Yousuf Khan
  38. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Ed wrote:
    > Does Intel have a CPU in the works that use an integrated memory
    > controller?
    > thanks,
    > Ed

    There is rumours that it is working on it, yup. Some might even take the
    fact that it's working on the FB-DIMM specification as a roundabout proof of
    it. FB-DIMM has the potential to mask all technological differences between
    different generations of DRAM. So a single memory controller that controls
    DDR-RAM might be enough to control DDR2, or whatever else comes around in
    the future.

    Yousuf Khan
  39. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:41:53 -0500, Ed <nosay@home.com> wrote:
    >
    >On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:11:32 -0400, Tony Hill <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca>
    >wrote:
    ><snip>
    >>>Do any of the other 64 bit chips have integrated memory controllers?
    >>
    >>Yes, most of them do these days. Sun UltraSparc 3 and US4, the HPaq
    >>Alpha EV7 and IBM Power5 all have integrated memory controllers. I'm
    >>fairly certain that there is at least one 64-bit MIPS core out there
    >>with an integrated memory controller.
    >
    >Does Intel have a CPU in the works that use an integrated memory
    >controller?

    To the best of my knowledge, no. Err, well I guess their ARM chips
    (XScale) have integrated memory controllers, but I'm guessing that
    wasn't what you were thinking of.

    Of course, I don't have any sort of secret insight into just what
    Intel is doing. I would be rather surprised if they had not at least
    looking into integrating memory controllers on their chips. There is
    a certain trade-off between the added performance and reduced
    flexibility that doing so entails, but all evidence seems to be
    pointing the former is plenty reason enough to go down this path.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  40. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 14:12:52 +0100, Franklin <franklin_lo@mail.com>
    wrote:

    >Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
    >> Absolutely none of the regulars from this newsgroup
    >> are participating in this thread. Don't ask me
    >> why it was ever cross-posted here.
    >
    >
    >Hi Rob, I am the OP and I must aplogize if I am including a group which is
    >irrelevant to my original question which was ...

    Don't worry about it being off topic. I think Rob Stow was
    sleepwalking *grin* when he typed that since I do see a number of
    familiar nicknames in this thread and I know I don't frequent the
    other NGs apart from CSIPHC :PpPP

    --
    L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
    If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
    Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
    If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
    But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
  41. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Franklin wrote:
    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Franklin wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    >>>difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    >>>same power?
    >
    >
    > -- snip --
    >
    >
    >>>I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    >>>(I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    >>>
    >>>Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    >>>more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    >>
    >>No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    >>benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    >>applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    >>with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    >>on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    >
    >
    > I use my PC for home and "small office" use.
    > No games. No video or sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >
    > That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.
    >
    > The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB memory,
    > sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and 80 GN HDD.
    >
    > But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    > porceesor compared to Intel.
    >
    > Hope that helps.

    Probably $100, one way or the other. On total system price that's pretty
    small and you are better off to balance what suits best.

    There are two cases where the P4 is faster, those which get a big boost
    from HT because of locking between threads, and apps which are compiled
    for P4 and use FP features AMD doesn't have. There are a very few cases
    where one or the other will do something unexpected, but I wouldn't
    worry about it, it won't be on decent code.

    Finally, depending on your app and price point one will be faster than
    the other. The P4 has more memory bandwidth, that occasionally matters.
    And finally at many price points the AMD will be somewhat faster for
    some things (deliberately vague there).

    Fun features: HT lets you see what multithreaded apps do vs. one CPU and
    more context switching, while the top AMD offerings offer 64 bit
    capability. Don't care? Then buy what you like on other features or price.

    --
    bill davidsen (davidsen@darkstar.prodigy.com)
    SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
    Project Leader, USENET news
    http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com
  42. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    if your a gamer go for AMD, they push out more fps, and cost up to almost
    50% less of a intel cpu, MHZ isn't all than counts its the instructions that
    the cpu holds.
    "Bill Davidsen" <davidsen@darkstar.prodigy.com> wrote in message
    news:0is4d.12207$3d1.10573@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
    > Franklin wrote:
    >> JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Franklin wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Is there a rough rule of thumb which indicates the price
    >>>>difference between an AMD system and an Intel system of the
    >>>>same power?
    >>
    >>
    >> -- snip --
    >>
    >>
    >>>>I am thinking of just the processor and mobo.
    >>>>(I don't think memory depends on processor type)
    >>>>
    >>>>Is it something like ... "Intel systems cost 25 to 30 percent
    >>>>more than an equivalent AMD system"?
    >>>
    >>>No. How do you determine which chips are equivalent? By
    >>>benchmarks? If so, then you need to figure out what
    >>>applications you run , and how often you run each, then come up
    >>>with a weighted average performance level for each chip based
    >>>on your usage patterns. Then you can make a comparison.
    >>
    >>
    >> I use my PC for home and "small office" use. No games. No video or
    >> sound editing. No movie playing. No power use.
    >>
    >> That is the sort of thing I would like to compare between AMD and Intel.
    >>
    >> The final system may be something like a AMD Barton 2500+ with 1GB
    >> memory, sound integrated on mobo and a very modest VIA-based graphics and
    >> 80 GN HDD.
    >>
    >> But all I want to get anidea of is the relative cost on an AMD mobo &
    >> porceesor compared to Intel.
    >>
    >> Hope that helps.
    >
    > Probably $100, one way or the other. On total system price that's pretty
    > small and you are better off to balance what suits best.
    >
    > There are two cases where the P4 is faster, those which get a big boost
    > from HT because of locking between threads, and apps which are compiled
    > for P4 and use FP features AMD doesn't have. There are a very few cases
    > where one or the other will do something unexpected, but I wouldn't worry
    > about it, it won't be on decent code.
    >
    > Finally, depending on your app and price point one will be faster than the
    > other. The P4 has more memory bandwidth, that occasionally matters. And
    > finally at many price points the AMD will be somewhat faster for some
    > things (deliberately vague there).
    >
    > Fun features: HT lets you see what multithreaded apps do vs. one CPU and
    > more context switching, while the top AMD offerings offer 64 bit
    > capability. Don't care? Then buy what you like on other features or price.
    >
    > --
    > bill davidsen (davidsen@darkstar.prodigy.com)
    > SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
    > Project Leader, USENET news
    > http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com
  43. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    > > Not really much difference considering the total price of the PC.
    >
    > Very funny. An Athlon XP 2500+ is only around $65. An XP 2500+ 333
    > is around $75. Why should someone pay around $100 more than they need to?
    >
    > "Not really much difference considering the total price of the PC."
    >
    > That excuse doesn't make sense. Using that type of excuse one could
    > say that spending $10,000 on a couch doesn't make much of difference
    > than buying a $2,000 one, since the cost of the house with the couch won't
    > be so different in percentage terms with each alternative.
    >
    > An extra $100 could buy a DVD writer or a second hard drive. It could be
    > saved for future upgrades.
    >
    >

    I gotta say..
    I like that Couch/House comparision.. ;)
  44. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
    news:p1ark09khicslkbadfd3e4qec9i51btsp0@4ax.com...
    > JK <JK9821@netscape.net> wrote:
    >
    > >That excuse doesn't make sense. Using that type of excuse one could
    > >say that spending $10,000 on a couch doesn't make much of difference
    > >than buying a $2,000 one, since the cost of the house with the couch
    won't
    > >be so different in percentage terms with each alternative.
    >
    > We're neither talking about an item with a £8000 price difference (is
    > your pound key broken?) or one which has an value in it's own right;
    > it's simply a component of the overall system.
    >
    > Few people would disagree that an Intel-based PC costs a little more
    > than a comparable AMD-based system but it's hardly unaffordable in the
    > context of the overall cost. Some people prefer not to pay the
    > premium whereas others do not.
    >
    > The same people who buy AMD because they're cheaper might conceivably
    > pay twice as much for, say, a high-end RAM or a top of the range
    > graphics card when parts priced at half the price would give very
    > similar performance, or pay a premium for OCZ or TwinMOS memory or
    > Hercules or Sapphire graphics cards over a cheaper functionally
    > similar equivalents. Fact is any reason for choosing any component
    > over another might seem no less whimsical to some people than the
    > reasons some people prefer one chip manufacturer over another.
    >
    > One of the *few* reasons for building your own PC is to have this
    > degree of choice and flexibility so I find it incredible that
    > essentially like-minded people can get so hung-up about other peoples
    > choices!
    >
    > --
    > >iv< Paul >iv<


    TwinMOS Is actually "Value" ram. I use TwinMOS because it's cheap.
    If your building a low-end pc then I say just get what ever you feel is
    going to be the least hassle.. If your wnating to build a higher end system
    then go with amd (usually).. If your wanting to build the fastest system out
    there then they usually compare cause AMD and Intel seem to price their top
    chips at the same mark.
  45. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    > And you base this comparison on a single Business Benchmark test? That
    > test could have a large I/O element and thus depend on other hardware
    > factors. And I just pointed out to you that on the very same site, the
    > P4 3.0 GHz beats the AMD Athlon XP 3000+ on Content Creation Benchmark.
    > You have to look at the whole performance spectrum. Not everybody run
    > databases or are interested in business tests. The Intels perform
    > traditionally very well for numerical modeling problems with vectors
    > and matrices. Special libraries are optimized for Intel. Also the
    > simplicity of plugging in an Intel P4 without having to worry about
    > many things.


    You started off kinda good, ended it kinda silly tho..
    If you start comparing Heat, a chip accessing the I/O better, special
    software optimization, and things like that then your going a bit away from
    the true scope of the diffence..
    The difference between AMD and Intel systems is that AMD systems have an AMD
    processor, Intel systems have an Intel processor.

    Currently the p4's deliver much more heat than the athlons..
    Go back a year or so ago and the Athlons were far hotter than the p4's..

    Some code is Optimized for the p4 vs the AXP (p4 wins that product
    Benchmark)
    keep in mind Some code is Optimized for the A64 vs the p4 (A64 wins that
    product Benchmark)

    Got a Intel chipset with SATA support then it's better than a off-bridge
    Sata solution (Intel boards with Intel chipsets often have both, AMD only
    has the External) ..

    Lets not forget about this wonderful HT technology too that so many people
    love to talk about..
    lets ALSO not forget that it only works on Windows XP
    (http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm)
  46. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    rstlne wrote:

    > Got a Intel chipset with SATA support then it's better than a off-bridge
    > Sata solution (Intel boards with Intel chipsets often have both, AMD only
    > has the External) ..

    In terms of board real estate, perhaps, and it seems logical. In
    practice I don't know that there's any difference in performance. I
    haven't seen a good independent benchmark yet.
    >
    > Lets not forget about this wonderful HT technology too that so many people
    > love to talk about..
    > lets ALSO not forget that it only works on Windows XP
    > (http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm)

    Who told you that? It works very well with recent Linux, better than any
    Windows as far as I can tell, since it knows about HT and doesn't treat
    the system as if it were SMP instead of SMT. And Linux winds in the case
    of HT+SMP, if only because you need a server version of XP (or did) to
    run more than two CPUs, even virtual ones.

    --
    bill davidsen (davidsen@darkstar.prodigy.com)
    SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
    Project Leader, USENET news
    http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com
  47. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Raj wrote:
    > if your a gamer go for AMD, they push out more fps, and cost up to almost
    > 50% less of a intel cpu, MHZ isn't all than counts its the instructions that
    > the cpu holds.

    I have serious doubts that fps makes any difference after you reach the
    limits of the human eye, say 70 fps max and 40 fps typical. So it has
    become more of a bragging thing than anything else. There's a limit on
    the rate of the monitor as well, which people tend to ignore when
    comparing. If the monitor is doing 70 refresh that 150-200 fps you see
    in a benchmark is ONLY seen in the benchmark.

    --
    bill davidsen (davidsen@darkstar.prodigy.com)
    SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
    Project Leader, USENET news
    http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com
  48. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In <W6y4d.147$f81.116@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>,
    rstlne <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:

    > Got a Intel chipset with SATA support then it's better than a off-bridge
    > Sata solution (Intel boards with Intel chipsets often have both, AMD only
    > has the External) ..

    VIA KT800 has on-bridge SATA doesn't it?

    --
    The address in the Reply-To is genuine and should not be edited.
    See <http://www.realh.co.uk/contact.html> for more reliable contact addresses.
  49. Archived from groups: comp.sys.intel,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "rstlne" <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote in message
    news:W6y4d.147$f81.116@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
    > Got a Intel chipset with SATA support then it's better than a off-bridge
    > Sata solution (Intel boards with Intel chipsets often have both, AMD only
    > has the External) ..
    > > Lets not forget about this wonderful HT technology too that so many
    > > people
    > love to talk about..
    > lets ALSO not forget that it only works on Windows XP
    > (http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm)

    I'm not sure that's entirely true, the nForce3 250GB comes with built in
    SATA RAID support (actually built in any disk raid support that lets you mix
    with PATA). As a matter of fact the nForce3 seems to be about the most
    efficient desktop chipset desgin out there right now. A single chip gets you
    Gigabit ethernet SATA RAID, Hardware firewall, AGP 8X etc..... Too bad for
    P4 owners that Intel was silly enough not to Licence the BUS out to nVidia.

    Carlo
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