Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
Grumble wrote:
> Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
>> Will now concentrate on 2MB L2 caches instead.
>>
>> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19089 >
> I don't think one is allowed to say "officially" and "the Inquirer"
> in the same sentence.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
the mark in the future.
Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
AJ
"Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message news:HeKdnbuTE7jeVPPcRVn-uw@rogers.com...
> Will now concentrate on 2MB L2 caches instead.
>
> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19089 >
> Yousuf Khan
>
> -- > Humans: contact me at ykhan at rogers dot com
> Spambots: just reply to this email address ;-)
>
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
AJ wrote:
> Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
> choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
> become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
> already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
Not even sure why you would need to announce this, AMD and/or third-party motherboards should've always been on your radar, even before now.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
AJ wrote:
> It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
> they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
> of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
> their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
> even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
> the mark in the future.
> > Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
> choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
> become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
> already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
> > AJ
The consumer market has been slowing down in any event
and throwing more capital into the Pentium-4 makes little
or no sense at all. Of course, we all know that Intel has
its own version of the "skunk works" (or certainly can
afford to have one) and it would be interesting to see
what mature product might emerge from Intel's R&D after
2 or 3 years. With future business prospects being what
they currently are, the ability to continuously upgrade
has come to a screeching halt, anyway. "Innovate" may mean
changing directions or going down a different path.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
Ghostrider wrote:
> AJ wrote:
>
> > It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
> > they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
> > of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
> > their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
> > even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
> > the mark in the future.
> >
> > Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
> > choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
> > become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
> > already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
> >
> > AJ
>
> The consumer market has been slowing down in any event
That may be what Intel is saying, but it is not what AMD is saying.
>
> and throwing more capital into the Pentium-4 makes little
> or no sense at all.
Intel needs lower power consuming chips that are 64 bit and have
integrated memory controllers to become competitive with AMD.
> Of course, we all know that Intel has
> its own version of the "skunk works" (or certainly can
> afford to have one) and it would be interesting to see
> what mature product might emerge from Intel's R&D after
> 2 or 3 years. With future business prospects being what
> they currently are
CPU sales at AMD are great! They increased 33% from from a
year ago for the quarter ending in September, and increased
21% from the June quarter. The industry is still growing, however
AMD is gaining market market share. Intel's cpu sales grew only
around 3-4% yoy and from last quarter.
> , the ability to continuously upgrade
> has come to a screeching halt, anyway. "Innovate" may mean
> changing directions or going down a different path.
The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
controllers are made by AMD though.
> Ghostrider wrote:
>
> > AJ wrote:
> >
> > > It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
> > > they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
> > > of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
> > > their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
> > > even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
> > > the mark in the future.
> > >
> > > Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
> > > choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
> > > become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
> > > already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
> > >
> > > AJ
> >
> > The consumer market has been slowing down in any event
>
> That may be what Intel is saying, but it is not what AMD is saying.
>
> >
> > and throwing more capital into the Pentium-4 makes little
> > or no sense at all.
>
> Intel needs lower power consuming chips that are 64 bit and have
> integrated memory controllers to become competitive with AMD.
>
> This article is very interesting.
>
> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19105 >
> > Of course, we all know that Intel has
> > its own version of the "skunk works" (or certainly can
> > afford to have one) and it would be interesting to see
> > what mature product might emerge from Intel's R&D after
> > 2 or 3 years. With future business prospects being what
> > they currently are
>
> CPU sales at AMD are great! They increased 33% from from a
> year ago for the quarter ending in September, and increased
> 21% from the June quarter. The industry is still growing, however
> AMD is gaining market market share. Intel's cpu sales grew only
> around 3-4% yoy and from last quarter.
>
> > , the ability to continuously upgrade
> > has come to a screeching halt, anyway. "Innovate" may mean
> > changing directions or going down a different path.
>
> The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
> upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
> controllers are made by AMD though.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
JK wrote:
> [...]
> > The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
> upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
> controllers are made by AMD though.
How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
Johannes H Andersen wrote:
> JK wrote:
> >
> [...]
> >
> > The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
> > cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
> > upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
> > controllers are made by AMD though.
>
> How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
> much greater performance????????
When the controller is on the cpu, it runs at the full speed of the cpu.
There isn't a much slower off chip front side bus to be a bottleneck.
> And why is it important to upgrade
> when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
> fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
> Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
There are those with 16 bit processors that still perform flawlessly,
although some people want to run the latest and highest performing
software, which in less than a year will probably be 64 bit software for
most applications.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
"Johannes H Andersen" <johs@sizefitter.com> wrote in message news:417038E9.7F387B24@sizefitter.com...
>
>
> How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
> much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
> when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
> fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
> Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
As much as I don't like JK he does make a good point about integrated memory controllers being a help (though not nessesarly that Intel *NEEDS* one to be compitive). AMD's integrated memory controller has really done more to help out the A64 than any other feature of the chip. There are many applications in the world where the lower latency memory controller is a huge advantage, and probably none where it is a diss-advantage.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:06 +0000, Johannes H Andersen wrote:
> > > JK wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >> The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
>> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
>> upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
>> controllers are made by AMD though.
> > How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
> much greater performance????????
Think latency. An integrated memory controller has two less I/O
crossings, *EACH WAY*. Clocks is clocks.
> And why is it important to upgrade
> when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
> fast flawlessly since I build it in July??????
Is that a serious question? I'm not sure what this has to do with th
eprice of oats in China, but just to assue you that the world won't end
without your grace, my Opteron has been performing flawlessly since June.
;-)
> Idle Temp 36 Deg. Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
....and this has somehow *something* to do with performance? Wow, what
some people will do to convince themselves that they made the right
purchase. Good grief, don't apologize!
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
"Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message news:L9udndzeufmI9_LcRVn-gQ@rogers.com...
> AJ wrote:
>> Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
>> choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
>> become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
>> already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
>
> Not even sure why you would need to announce this, AMD and/or third-party motherboards should've always been on your radar, > even before now.
Historically, good integrated motherboards for AMD haven't been there.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
"Johannes H Andersen" <johs@sizefitter.com> wrote in message news:417038E9.7F387B24@sizefitter.com...
>
>
> JK wrote:
>>
> [...]
>>
>> The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
>> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
>> upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
>> controllers are made by AMD though.
>
> How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
> much greater performance???????? And why is it important to upgrade
> when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
> fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
> Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
On these cool fall days, (though I have the heat on in my home), my 2.4
Northwood idles at under 30 C. As I type this, it's at 28. I have a Zalman
7000 AlCu instead of the stock HSF though. Your 36 C idle temp sounds
high to me, but maybe your ambient is higher too.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
"Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message news:10n0ari9u8vg288@news.supernews.com...
>
> AJ wrote:
>
>> It's sad how corps can get so caught up in their own BS that
>> they have no concept of what's important (incapable of any kind
>> of out-of-the-box thinking). Hopefully they'll be able to realize
>> their mistakes and produce consumer-driven products and maybe
>> even anticipate what is wanted before they get so far away from
>> the mark in the future.
>>
>> Personally, if Northwoods go away and Prescott is the only Intel
>> choice, I'm gonna buy AMD. Secondly, if motherboards from Intel
>> become >$120, I'll go third party there too. Enough of the gouging
>> already. "Innovation" where it is not necessary is not appreciated.
>>
>> AJ
>
> The consumer market has been slowing down in any event
> and throwing more capital into the Pentium-4 makes little
> or no sense at all. Of course, we all know that Intel has
> its own version of the "skunk works" (or certainly can
> afford to have one) and it would be interesting to see
> what mature product might emerge from Intel's R&D after
> 2 or 3 years. With future business prospects being what
> they currently are, the ability to continuously upgrade
> has come to a screeching halt, anyway. "Innovate" may mean
> changing directions or going down a different path.
I'm all set for the next few years with my Intel 865 MB and Northwood
combo. I like it. By the time I'm ready again for a new machine,
maybe they will have gone through all the interim models of boards
and processors and have something I'll want again.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:06 GMT, Johannes H Andersen
<johs@sizefitter.com> wrote:
>JK wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >> The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
>> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
>> upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
>> controllers are made by AMD though.
>
>How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
>much greater performance????????
The integrated memory controller reduces memory latency by roughly
20-30%. This is HUGE. Consider that processor speeds have increased
by two orders of magnitude since the 386 days, while memory bandwidth
has increased by well over one order of magnitude, but memory latency
has only dropped by about 50%. Even with the VERY large caches that
are becoming common on today's chips, memory latency is still a rather
important part of the equation.
This alone probably results in about a 10-15% improvement in system
performance over a (theoretical) otherwise identical processor with an
off-chip memory controller. I'm really not sure how much longer Intel
can go with an off-chip memory controller, they are pretty much the
ONLY company left that hasn't moved this on-chip (not counting the
grandfathered designs like SGI MIPS chips and HP PA-RISC).
> And why is it important to upgrade
>when my Dual Channel Hyper Threading Northwood 2.8/800 has performed
>fast flawlessly since I build it in July?????? Idle Temp 36 Deg.
>Max temp with 100% flat out numerical analysis = 56 Deg ????????
Obviously there's absolutely no reason at all for you to upgrade a
system that you built 4 months ago. However, for someone like me who
built most of their system in early 2002, it's starting to get a bit
long in the tooth (woohoo for me though, I just ordered a newer
processor today!). Many others are running systems that are even
older and may be looking into upgrading. Despite popular belief, a
1.0GHz PIII does tend to feel a little bit sluggish these days once
you're used to much faster processors.
-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
Johannes H Andersen wrote:
> JK wrote:
>>
> [...]
>>
>> The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
>> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
>> upgrade. Of course those chips with integrated memory
>> controllers are made by AMD though.
>
> How do you conclude that integrated memory controllers results in
> much greater performance????????
They (integrated memory controllers) lower the latency to main memory significantly.
ergo the chip isn't spinning it's wheels aimlessly anywhere near as much in the event of an L2 cache miss.
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.intel (More info?)
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:53:06 GMT, Johannes H Andersen <johs@sizefitter.com>
wrote:
>
>
>JK wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >> The move to 64 bits and memory controllers integrated into the
>> cpu for much greater performance are important reasons to
>> upgrad
I like it. By the time I'm ready again for a new machine,