BTX Technology/Native Command Queuing

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
will pick up soon?
2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Thanks for any & all responses!

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:54:51 +0000, AWriteny wrote:

> After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
> I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.

Oh, my! You're in hell dood! ;-)

> Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
> 1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
> will pick up soon?

Why? IMO BTX was never intended for the desktop. ISTM to be expensive
with little gain.

> 2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
> thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Parallel ATA command queueing never ammounted to much. It was a poorly
thought out kludge and not well (at all?) supported. SATA command
queueing may be a different thing. It was a promise, but I don't have any
idea how well it works in practice. In reality, you won't notice the
difference.

--
Keith

 

[rush]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny) wrote :

> After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go
> for a Dell. I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the
> masses is what I wanted. Some questions still need answers,
> though. For example: 1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology.
> Is this something most companies will pick up soon?
> 2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is
> this a good thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Do you want a computer or a buzzword box ?

Pozdrawiam.
--
RusH //
http://randki.o2.pl/profil.php?id_r=352019
Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

AWriteny wrote:
> After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
> I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.

Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong group. We mostly like to build our
own boxes, or at the very least buy them from local computer shops. We
never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.

Now just sit back while we rag on you for even considering a brandname.

> Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
> 1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
> will pick up soon?

Nope, not likely to become common.

> 2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
> thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?

Might add some value in a server environment where you have multiple
disk drives being accessed all at once, otherwise you won't notice a
difference.

Yousuf Khan

 

[AJ]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message news:wiGyd.32098$GK5.1571753@news20.bellglobal.com...
> AWriteny wrote:
>> After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
>> I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
>
> Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong group. We mostly like to build our own boxes, or at the very least buy them from local
> computer shops. We never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.
>
> Now just sit back while we rag on you for even considering a brandname.
>
>> Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
>> 1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
>> will pick up soon?
>
> Nope, not likely to become common.
>
>> 2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
>> thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?
>
> Might add some value in a server environment where you have multiple disk drives being accessed all at once, otherwise you
> won't notice a difference.

I'll bet NCQ gets
over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
new to offer this year?). I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was available (twice
the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my motherboard won't support it.) Apparently
it's harder to do than thought?

AJ

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:13:23 +0000, AJ wrote:

>
> "Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message news:wiGyd.32098$GK5.1571753@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> AWriteny wrote:
>>> After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
>>> I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
>>
>> Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong group. We mostly like to build our own boxes, or at the very least buy them from local
>> computer shops. We never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.
>>
>> Now just sit back while we rag on you for even considering a brandname.
>>
>>> Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
>>> 1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
>>> will pick up soon?
>>
>> Nope, not likely to become common.
>>
>>> 2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
>>> thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?
>>
>> Might add some value in a server environment where you have multiple disk drives being accessed all at once, otherwise you
>> won't notice a difference.
>
> I'll bet NCQ gets
> over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
> new to offer this year?).

Dunno, IBM ATA drives have had command queueing for at *least* five years
and no one cared (according to those in the know, it's not surprising).

> I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
> a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was
> available (twice the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my
> motherboard won't support it.) Apparently it's harder to do than
> thought?

Look at the STR and then tell me what performance you wish for. You're
out of line by an order of magnitude and a half! ...at least!

--
Keith

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Someone wrote
> Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong >group. We mostly like to build our own
>boxes, or at the very least buy them from local
> computer shops. We never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.
>
> Now just sit back while we rag on you for <even considering a brandname.

Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
those people who haven't a clue! :-D
So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 09:14:55 +0000, AWriteny wrote:

> Someone wrote
>> Hoo boy, have you come to the wrong >group. We mostly like to build our own
>>boxes, or at the very least buy them from local
>> computer shops. We never touch brandnames. Ph-toui.
>>
>> Now just sit back while we rag on you for <even considering a brandname.
>
> Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
> those people who haven't a clue! :-D
> So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
> commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
screwdriver. ;-)

--
Keith

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

AJ wrote:
> I'll bet NCQ gets
> over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
> new to offer this year?). I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
> a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was available (twice
> the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my motherboard won't support it.) Apparently
> it's harder to do than thought?

I bet the next big thing will be to market home SANs (Storage Area
Networks), the way I go through disk space on my desktops and laptops,
I'd love to just plug a standard IDE or SATA hard drive into an array
and connect them all up through a dedicated network.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

keith wrote:
> Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
> build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
> computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
> screwdriver. ;-)
>

I don't know if people can learn this in one day. You can be taught to
do it in one day, but getting a feel for it is a different matter.

I can remember way back when, I taught a friend of mine to service his
own computer. Back then it was not quite as friendly as it is today to
setup a computer. For example, IDE connectors were rarely ever keyed, so
there was plenty of opportunity to put it in backwards without even
realizing it. Also there was no USB, and there were choices between not
only PCI and AGP, but also ISA & VLB. For the most part my buddy got it
all, and got proficient at it. However, despite learning all of that,
one thing he never got a feel for, quite surprisingly was how to put a
RAM module into its slot. To this day, he waits for me to install his
DIMMs for him! You can never tell how some of the most minor things can
sometimes stump some people.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

AWriteny wrote:
> Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
> those people who haven't a clue! :-D
> So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
> commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

Like I said, we normally suggest your local corner mom'n'pop computer
store. Avoid going to the chain electronics stores, such as Best Buy,
Future Shop, etc.; buy your DVD player from there, don't buy your
computer system from there. You can find these places in your local free
computer magazines, or the yellow pages.

I guess a second thing that should be found out is why you considered
Gateway service to be poor, and why you were trying to get away from it
and run towards Dell. In general, there should be next to no difference
in their service, as they are trying to compete against each other. So
whatever issues plagued you at Gateway should also be the same at Dell,
and vice-versa. What were the sort of problems you had, which their
customer service was not able to resolve for you (at least
satisfactorily)? Knowing this will let us know what sorts of computer
problems you usually have and whether you'd be better off with a local
computer store or a big mail-order brand.

In general, the local computer stores will give you a 1 year
parts/labour warranty on the hardware of your computer, but that means
you'll have to buy the complete system from them -- you won't be able to
mix & match components from one computer store or another, initially.
They will resolve hardware problems for you, but usually not software.
However, they can install the initial software for you (such as Windows
and various utilities) if you want, or do it yourself and save even more
money. Another advantage of the local computer store is that if
something bad happens, you can just pick up the case and take it a few
blocks from you; if you're in a small city, often the nearest repair
depot is in the next big city for the brandnames, so you don't have to
drive all of the way to another city just to get the thing repaired, or
even ship it there.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On 24 Dec 2004 09:14:55 GMT, awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny)
wrote:

>> Now just sit back while we rag on you for <even considering a brandname.
>
>Good thing I am more of an expert in several other groups and can "rag" on
>those people who haven't a clue! :-D
>So, what's a girl who has the computer tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from a
>commercial company & hope for the best...I guess!

Don't stay a newt!!!! I made it a point to become better than my guy
friends (or at least on par with most of them) at this stuff! pPpP

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

a?n?g?e?l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com (The little lost angel) writes

awriteny wrote
>So, what's a girl who has the computer >tech saavy of a newt, to do? Buy from
a
>commercial company & hope for the >best...I guess!

>>Don't stay a newt!!!! I made it a point to >>become better than my guy
>>friends (or at least on par with most of >>them) at this stuff! pPpP

Absolutely, I spent a couple of hours checking pages of 'puter mags & tech
websites so I know more than the hubby & the guy next door (which might not be
such a big deal, actually). :-D

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Yousuf Khan bbbl67@ezrs.com
writes
>"...we normally suggest your local corner >mom'n'pop computer
>store....I guess a second thing that >should be found out is why you
considered
>Gateway service to be poor, and why you were trying to get away from it
>and run towards Dell. In general, there should be next to no difference
>in their service, as they are trying to >compete against each other...."

I had two (bad) experiences with mom & pop computer (specific) stores. I would
NEVER buy from that type of vendor again. The big(ger) companies generally
don't close up and leave you hanging or refuse to service a broken product.

I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression about Gateway. I found their customer
service to be excellent. It's their product(s) that were faulty. I had 3
G'ways - 2 years apart - each with a 3 or 4 year warranty. After each 2 year
period, the computers needed replacing. They replaced my keyboard and other
parts without hesitation. They saved my life several times with their online
tech support (connecting directly to my desktop). Dell doesn't have that. The
400 reviews I came across put Dell much ahead of Gateway...especially in
repairs. So..I figured, why not try a Dell. I can always kill myself for bad
decision making! :-D

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

AWriteny wrote:
> I had two (bad) experiences with mom & pop computer (specific) stores. I would
> NEVER buy from that type of vendor again. The big(ger) companies generally
> don't close up and leave you hanging or refuse to service a broken product.

Well, I guess we all have different experiences. Most of the locals
around here are stable, have been around for years, etc. Of course there
was a period about a 5-10 years ago when everybody and their grandmother
started a computer store. That phase seems to be over around here,
thankfully.

Of course one of the things that I look for if dealing with a computer
store is the attitude of the salesman. If he's giving you attitude just
selling you a computer, then he's going to give you attitude about
repairing it too. So if the salesman pisses me off right away, then I
don't bother buying it from them, and I'd even pay a little extra for a
place offering higher prices by a bit. Also another consideration is
whether the part that I'm looking for is best with support or if support
doesn't matter. If support doesn't matter then I just buy from the
lowest pricer.

> I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression about Gateway. I found their customer
> service to be excellent. It's their product(s) that were faulty. I had 3
> G'ways - 2 years apart - each with a 3 or 4 year warranty. After each 2 year
> period, the computers needed replacing. They replaced my keyboard and other
> parts without hesitation. They saved my life several times with their online
> tech support (connecting directly to my desktop). Dell doesn't have that. The
> 400 reviews I came across put Dell much ahead of Gateway...especially in
> repairs. So..I figured, why not try a Dell. I can always kill myself for bad
> decision making! :-D

Well, then what did you find that was faulty about their product?

BTW, these days Gateway and Emachines are really the same company. With
the majority of the operations coming from the former Emachines these
days. The parts and components lists may now be more Emachines than the
old Gateway. So perhaps the problems plaguing you previously with
Gateway may no longer be relevant.

Yousuf Khan

 

[mygarbage2000]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On 23 Dec 2004 13:54:51 GMT, awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny)
wrote:

>After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
>I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
>Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
>1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
>will pick up soon?
>2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
>thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?
>
>Thanks for any & all responses!
One more victim of Mad Ave. brain-washing. You'll pay a lot extra for
that DULL badge, dude. What you get is China-assembled box. If, God
forbid, you'll need the support, you need to learn Indian English -
that's where your call will be routed. BTX - an attempt by Intel to
mitigate excessive heat produced by the latest generation of Pentiums
(or should I say Pentia?) So far, most vendors resist the transition,
but, knowing INTC, BTX will be eventually pushed down their throats.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On 25 Dec 2004 00:46:32 GMT, awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny)
wrote:

>Absolutely, I spent a couple of hours checking pages of 'puter mags & tech
>websites so I know more than the hubby & the guy next door (which might not be
>such a big deal, actually). :-D

Erm, ignore the puter mags, after my 1st few yrs learning abt pc &
stuff, I've come to the realization most puter mags serve double duty
as comic relief pPPp

Stick ard the newsgroups and ask!!! A lot of the folks here like Tony
(for an example!!! I can't list everybody!!!) have lotsa of real life
experience and actual knowledge about how these things work!

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

a?n?g?e?l@lovergirl.lrigrevol.moc.com (The little lost angel)
>Stick ard the newsgroups and ask!!! A lot >of the folks here like Tony
>(for an example!!! I can't list everybody!!!) >have lotsa of real life
>experience and actual knowledge about >how these things work!


Sounds like good advice, thanks!

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:52:12 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:

> keith wrote:
>> Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
>> build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
>> computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
>> screwdriver. ;-)
>>
>
> I don't know if people can learn this in one day. You can be taught to
> do it in one day, but getting a feel for it is a different matter.

No real argument here. However it is not the daunting task some think it
is. Of course everyone here is sworn to secrecy, right?

> I can remember way back when, I taught a friend of mine to service his
> own computer. Back then it was not quite as friendly as it is today to
> setup a computer. For example, IDE connectors were rarely ever keyed, so
> there was plenty of opportunity to put it in backwards without even
> realizing it.

Sure, BTDT. I've never fried anything doing it though. I *did* fry the
floppy *power* cable on the last system I built for a friend. Lotsa
smoke! Good thing she wasn't there (her last machine had all the magic
smoke let out during a "power surge"■).

> Also there was no USB, and there were choices between not
> only PCI and AGP, but also ISA & VLB.

MCA/ISA ;-) and later ISA/PCI. Now its PCI/AGP/PCIe. No big deal though.
If it doesn't require a hammer to put it together, it'll work.

> For the most part my buddy got it
> all, and got proficient at it. However, despite learning all of that,
> one thing he never got a feel for, quite surprisingly was how to put a
> RAM module into its slot. To this day, he waits for me to install his
> DIMMs for him! You can never tell how some of the most minor things can
> sometimes stump some people.

I'm edgy when installing RAM too. Some boards have awkward DIMM slots and
inserting it puts a lot of stress on the board.

■ That explanation was good enough for her insurance company
to foot the bill for her new computer. A smoked PeoplePC for a shiny new
KeithKit. What a deal! ;-)

--
Keith

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 04:40:08 +0000, nobody@nowhere.net wrote:

> On 23 Dec 2004 13:54:51 GMT, awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny)
> wrote:
>
>>After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
>>I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
>>Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
>>1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
>>will pick up soon?
>>2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
>>thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?
>>
>>Thanks for any & all responses!
> One more victim of Mad Ave. brain-washing. You'll pay a lot extra for
> that DULL badge, dude. What you get is China-assembled box. If, God
> forbid, you'll need the support, you need to learn Indian English -
> that's where your call will be routed. BTX - an attempt by Intel to
> mitigate excessive heat produced by the latest generation of Pentiums
> (or should I say Pentia?) So far, most vendors resist the transition,
> but, knowing INTC, BTX will be eventually pushed down their throats.

Oh, that work *so* well for DRDRAM, didn't it? Intel doesn't have that
kind of power anymore (if they ever did). I remember people (motherboard
developers)grousing at the Intel Developer's Forum when the ATX spec was
unveiled. I saw it as a good thing (compared to AT). Evidently others
finally saw it that way too, because it caught on. ...not because Intel
*forced* it. No, I *don't* think BTX will catch on. I think it's way too
expensive for the $400 PC. Servers, perhaps.

--
Keith

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:06:28 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:52:12 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
>> keith wrote:
>>> Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
>>> build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
>>> computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
>>> screwdriver. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> I don't know if people can learn this in one day. You can be taught to
>> do it in one day, but getting a feel for it is a different matter.
>
>No real argument here. However it is not the daunting task some think it
>is. Of course everyone here is sworn to secrecy, right?

Hey it was *really*, *really* skilled work connecting 10 or so individual
connectors to a 2x5 berg strip... in the right order of course. Then,
of course, a *real* expert is someone who's done a hot BIOS chip swap and
flash.

>> For the most part my buddy got it
>> all, and got proficient at it. However, despite learning all of that,
>> one thing he never got a feel for, quite surprisingly was how to put a
>> RAM module into its slot. To this day, he waits for me to install his
>> DIMMs for him! You can never tell how some of the most minor things can
>> sometimes stump some people.
>
>I'm edgy when installing RAM too. Some boards have awkward DIMM slots and
>inserting it puts a lot of stress on the board.

Is it just me or is that getting worse... i.e. DIMM slots seem to be
getting stiffer and stiffer? I usually insert and remove the DIMM(s) from
all the slots a couple of times with the mbrd on a flat surface, before
mounting in the case... just to ease them up a touch.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[mygarbage2000]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:11:47 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

>On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 04:40:08 +0000, nobody@nowhere.net wrote:
>
>> On 23 Dec 2004 13:54:51 GMT, awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
>>>I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
>>>Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
>>>1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
>>>will pick up soon?
>>>2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
>>>thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?
>>>
>>>Thanks for any & all responses!
>> One more victim of Mad Ave. brain-washing. You'll pay a lot extra for
>> that DULL badge, dude. What you get is China-assembled box. If, God
>> forbid, you'll need the support, you need to learn Indian English -
>> that's where your call will be routed. BTX - an attempt by Intel to
>> mitigate excessive heat produced by the latest generation of Pentiums
>> (or should I say Pentia?) So far, most vendors resist the transition,
>> but, knowing INTC, BTX will be eventually pushed down their throats.
>
>Oh, that work *so* well for DRDRAM, didn't it? Intel doesn't have that
>kind of power anymore (if they ever did). I remember people (motherboard
>developers)grousing at the Intel Developer's Forum when the ATX spec was
>unveiled. I saw it as a good thing (compared to AT). Evidently others
>finally saw it that way too, because it caught on. ...not because Intel
>*forced* it. No, I *don't* think BTX will catch on. I think it's way too
>expensive for the $400 PC. Servers, perhaps.
There's a small difference. Back then when INTC attempted to
establish the infamous 815 chipset and RDRAM as mainstream/performance
platform of choice, there was a ready replacement from VIA that had
133 mhz bus and used PC133. The OEMs could still use the latest and
'greatest' P3 CuMine and market them Intel Inside.
This time around, ATX cases are already stressed to the max
dissipating the heat produced by current Prescotts. Bump the speed up
a few grades, double the cores - and you just have to go BTX or resort
to some exotic cooling system. Major OEMs like DULL, HPQ etc. just
can't afford to go without the latest and greatest Intel CPU in their
lineup. Most of us in this NG know the _real_ alternative to these
space heaters - AMD. However, OEMs still doubt they can sell this
alternative to Joe Sixpack - or big IT dept. purchasing manager, for
that matter.

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:43:17 -0500, George Macdonald wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:06:28 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:52:12 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>>
>>> keith wrote:
>>>> Buy a "white-box" from a reputable vendor or take a day to learn how to
>>>> build one yourself! Thre really isn't all *that* much to building a
>>>> computer these days, assuming you know which is the business end of a
>>>> screwdriver. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know if people can learn this in one day. You can be taught to
>>> do it in one day, but getting a feel for it is a different matter.
>>
>>No real argument here. However it is not the daunting task some think it
>>is. Of course everyone here is sworn to secrecy, right?
>
> Hey it was *really*, *really* skilled work connecting 10 or so individual
> connectors to a 2x5 berg strip... in the right order of course. Then,
> of course, a *real* expert is someone who's done a hot BIOS chip swap and
> flash.

Please! It's not all that simple! One has to look at the colors on the
wires too! ...and guess what the pretty ones were for. Sshh!

>>> For the most part my buddy got it
>>> all, and got proficient at it. However, despite learning all of that,
>>> one thing he never got a feel for, quite surprisingly was how to put a
>>> RAM module into its slot. To this day, he waits for me to install his
>>> DIMMs for him! You can never tell how some of the most minor things
>>> can sometimes stump some people.
>>
>>I'm edgy when installing RAM too. Some boards have awkward DIMM slots
>>and inserting it puts a lot of stress on the board.
>
> Is it just me or is that getting worse... i.e. DIMM slots seem to be
> getting stiffer and stiffer? I usually insert and remove the DIMM(s)
> from all the slots a couple of times with the mbrd on a flat surface,
> before mounting in the case... just to ease them up a touch.

....and the DIMM slots inbetween supports! I won't weaken the springs
(that's why tinned contacts work - rather than gold), but I do put memory
in with the motherboard supported. We'll see tomorrow how chicken I am...


--
Keith

 

[keith]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 01:30:23 +0000, nobody@nowhere.net wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:11:47 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 04:40:08 +0000, nobody@nowhere.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 23 Dec 2004 13:54:51 GMT, awriteny@aol.comnadaspam (AWriteny)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>After 2 Gateways (with poor peformance records), I decided to go for a Dell.
>>>>I'm not a techie so an above average 'puter for the masses is what I wanted.
>>>>Some questions still need answers, though. For example:
>>>>1) Gateway (not Dell) offers BTX Technology. Is this something most companies
>>>>will pick up soon?
>>>>2) The 160G hard drive with my Dell had Native Command Queuing. Is this a good
>>>>thing or a drain (and too early in the game)?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for any & all responses!
>>> One more victim of Mad Ave. brain-washing. You'll pay a lot extra for
>>> that DULL badge, dude. What you get is China-assembled box. If, God
>>> forbid, you'll need the support, you need to learn Indian English -
>>> that's where your call will be routed. BTX - an attempt by Intel to
>>> mitigate excessive heat produced by the latest generation of Pentiums
>>> (or should I say Pentia?) So far, most vendors resist the transition,
>>> but, knowing INTC, BTX will be eventually pushed down their throats.
>>
>>Oh, that work *so* well for DRDRAM, didn't it? Intel doesn't have that
>>kind of power anymore (if they ever did). I remember people (motherboard
>>developers)grousing at the Intel Developer's Forum when the ATX spec was
>>unveiled. I saw it as a good thing (compared to AT). Evidently others
>>finally saw it that way too, because it caught on. ...not because Intel
>>*forced* it. No, I *don't* think BTX will catch on. I think it's way too
>>expensive for the $400 PC. Servers, perhaps.

> There's a small difference. Back then when INTC attempted to
> establish the infamous 815 chipset and RDRAM as mainstream/performance
> platform of choice, there was a ready replacement from VIA that had
> 133 mhz bus and used PC133. The OEMs could still use the latest and
> 'greatest' P3 CuMine and market them Intel Inside.

No, the only difference is that Intel doesn't have anything to gain from
BTX's exceptence. The thing that hasn't changed is that they still think
they can force their way into our homes.

> This time around, ATX cases are already stressed to the max dissipating
> the heat produced by current Prescotts. Bump the speed up a few grades,
> double the cores - and you just have to go BTX or resort to some exotic
> cooling system.

I disagree. People will simply refuse to play (pay) this game until thee
costs come down and ATX and conventional cooling works. I simply don't
see BTX working on the desktop. There are many other solutions for the
servers.

> Major OEMs like DULL, HPQ etc. just can't afford to go
> without the latest and greatest Intel CPU in their lineup.

Pehraps in the industrial/commercial market, where the costs are more
easily absorbed. I see zero penetration on "our" end of the market.

> Most of us
> in this NG know the _real_ alternative to these space heaters - AMD.

LOL! ...though AMD isn't guiltless here either. Technology has hit a
speed-bump.

> However, OEMs still doubt they can sell this alternative to Joe Sixpack
> - or big IT dept. purchasing manager, for that matter.

I'm with them. I don't see it. ...too expensive for no gain.

(Cost > allowable price) => (Outcome = not good)

--
Keith
--
Keith

 

[AJ]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"Yousuf Khan" <bbbl67@ezrs.com> wrote in message news:ed_yd.40605$GK5.1903616@news20.bellglobal.com...
> AJ wrote:
>> I'll bet NCQ gets
>> over-marketed to stand-alone users though too (because the HD manf's have nothing
>> new to offer this year?). I was chomping-at-the-bit (hoping) for 3GB/s. I'd actually buy
>> a new HD and use my exiting 80GB SATA for backups if 3 GB/s was available (twice
>> the throughput! Ooops, no I won't, because my motherboard won't support it.) Apparently
>> it's harder to do than thought?
>
> I bet the next big thing will be to market home SANs (Storage Area Networks), the way I go through disk space on my
> desktops and laptops, I'd love to just plug a standard IDE or SATA hard drive into an array and connect them all up through
> a dedicated network.

Sounds like one grenade would take out all the systems in the house! So maybe
until all the disasters occur and people realize that centralization is usually bad
we'll see some of that. I predict instead that data will be distributed amongst
more specialized kinds of "PCs": for example, PVR seems to be just a PC, but
it's really not; it's a specialized implementation of computer technology and not
an infinitely configurable thing like a destop PC (which probably is too broadly
defined at this point in time also). The "one computer serving up the whole house"
idea sounds cost effective also, but in reality it's just a headache and conceptually
hard for users to do on their own (that is, it's not "plug-n-play").

Anywayz... I digress. I sure would like 3GB/s drives though, especially 2.5 inch ones!

AJ