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AMD skt 939 + MSI Neo2 "overclocked"?

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December 28, 2004 12:16:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Greetings all,
Can someone please offer some guidance to save my sanity:-0

3 day old PC - MSI Neo2 Platinum Mainboard with AMD 3200+ skt 939, 512mb
Corsair Value Select 3200, 400ddr.

Been having problems from the outset with AOpen DVD drive only starting up
sometimes .. This morning when I switched on there was no display - ie No
Input. After several re-boots - having to switch off at mains supply - it
booted only to display this msg:
"Warning the system is now in safe mode. Please reset overclocking features
in SETUP MENU"

Have no idea what its going on about ... wouldn't know an overclock from an
under one :-)
Any ideas ...

TIA
--
Kate
Anonymous
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December 28, 2004 12:16:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:16:35 -0000, "Kate"
<kate@REMOVEbillkath.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Greetings all,
>Can someone please offer some guidance to save my sanity:-0
>
>3 day old PC - MSI Neo2 Platinum Mainboard with AMD 3200+ skt 939, 512mb
>Corsair Value Select 3200, 400ddr.

Have you run Prime95 Torture Test to check that the memory is working OK?
BTW I have the same mbrd with a 3500+ and 1GB of Crucial.

Which OS are you running and did you run the mbrd driver install?

>Been having problems from the outset with AOpen DVD drive only starting up
>sometimes .. This morning when I switched on there was no display - ie No
>Input. After several re-boots - having to switch off at mains supply - it
>booted only to display this msg:
>"Warning the system is now in safe mode. Please reset overclocking features
>in SETUP MENU"

It sounds like it lost its CMOS setup which could indicate a short or bad
battery. Are you sure the video card is mounted in its slot properly?...
sometimes you really have to push hard when the slots are new to make it
seat 100%. Are you sure the mbrd is mounted OK, with the holes well
aligned with the standoffs and no extra standoffs which could cause a
short?

>Have no idea what its going on about ... wouldn't know an overclock from an
>under one :-)

What did you choose from the BIOS Setup for a "Load" of settings? I've
seen the opinion that MSI has the "Optimized" setup set too aggressively on
timings - use the "Safe" settings and then go through all the options to
check them. If you had chosen their Dynamic Overclock option turn it off -
IMO it's fluff which is not worth the aggro. The only other thing I can
think of off-hand is the power supply - what brand & wattage and what is
the amps rating on the 12V rail?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
December 28, 2004 10:13:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Greets again George and thanx for your response.

This system - part of a network of two, both behaving badly - was put
together by the supplier 'tho they didn't run the full 24 hr test cos of the
the holidays. Its obvious it will have to go back under the warranty but
'twould be helpful to have some idea of the cause so they don't try too much
technobabble - Have learned that the BIOS - Jul 04 - may be incompatible
with the Winchester 90 CPU :-0 and so would prefer the mbrd to be replaced
rather than BIOS flashed. Will also get them to check the memory timings.


> Have you run Prime95 Torture Test to check that the memory is working OK?
> BTW I have the same mbrd with a 3500+ and 1GB of Crucial.

Yes I remember you said you were about to put one together back in Nov - is
it running fine then?
Might there be an issue with Corsair Value Select ... we *we're* trying to
keep within a budget :-)


> Which OS are you running and did you run the mbrd driver install?

Using Win 98 - waiting for the 64 bit OS - Did install the mbrd drivers tho
there were probs there too in that the DVD drive door kept locking mid
install while the PC asked for a different disk -- also mouse/keyboard kept
failing to respond - in fact we've installed the OS then formatted no less
than 3 times on each machine.


> It sounds like it lost its CMOS setup which could indicate a short or bad
> battery. Are you sure the video card is mounted in its slot properly?...
> sometimes you really have to push hard when the slots are new to make it
> seat 100%. Are you sure the mbrd is mounted OK, with the holes well
> aligned with the standoffs and no extra standoffs which could cause a
> short?

These are the inponderables I know not answers to. But with one PC 'down',
the other lost a good number of files overnight so there's no Control Panel
and just blank windows - aarrghh.


> What did you choose from the BIOS Setup for a "Load" of settings? I've
> seen the opinion that MSI has the "Optimized" setup set too aggressively
on
> timings - use the "Safe" settings and then go through all the options to
> check them. If you had chosen their Dynamic Overclock option turn it
off -
> IMO it's fluff which is not worth the aggro. The only other thing I can
> think of off-hand is the power supply - what brand & wattage and what is
> the amps rating on the 12V rail?

The assembler choose the BIOS settings, not myself -- personally I think I'm
a bit out of my depth with going through these -- have concerns that I might
'kill' the mbrd and void the warranty.
The PSU is a 380 Tagan Silent and there are 2 case fans so its quite cool.

Once again thanx for your time.
-----
Kate
Related resources
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 29, 2004 10:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:13:44 -0000, "Kate"
<kate@REMOVEbillkath.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Greets again George and thanx for your response.
>
>This system - part of a network of two, both behaving badly - was put
>together by the supplier 'tho they didn't run the full 24 hr test cos of the
>the holidays. Its obvious it will have to go back under the warranty but
>'twould be helpful to have some idea of the cause so they don't try too much
>technobabble - Have learned that the BIOS - Jul 04 - may be incompatible
>with the Winchester 90 CPU :-0 and so would prefer the mbrd to be replaced
>rather than BIOS flashed. Will also get them to check the memory timings.

Yes the Winchester 90nm compatible BIOS, V1.2, was released in Aug 04 and
corrected in V1.3 Sep 04 for Cool 'n' Quiet. The latest BIOS is V1.4. I'm
not sure what the ramifications might have been of running a BIOS which
didn't support the lower voltage 90nm CPU - I hope not an overvoltage of
the chip.

>> Have you run Prime95 Torture Test to check that the memory is working OK?
>> BTW I have the same mbrd with a 3500+ and 1GB of Crucial.
>
>Yes I remember you said you were about to put one together back in Nov - is
>it running fine then?
>Might there be an issue with Corsair Value Select ... we *we're* trying to
>keep within a budget :-)

Mine is running just fine - rock solid with Crucial 2x512MB PC3200 single
sided DIMMs. Some people seem to have no probs with the Corsair Value
Select; others have said it's marginal.<shrug> Check out the forum at
http://www.msi.com.tw/index.htm

>> Which OS are you running and did you run the mbrd driver install?
>
>Using Win 98 - waiting for the 64 bit OS - Did install the mbrd drivers tho
>there were probs there too in that the DVD drive door kept locking mid
>install while the PC asked for a different disk -- also mouse/keyboard kept
>failing to respond - in fact we've installed the OS then formatted no less
>than 3 times on each machine.

Could be the old BIOS... and I hope that's Win98SE, otherwise you're
wasting your time. I didn't bother with Win98 - thought of trying to boot
it and then decided it wasn't worth the trouble since I have a SATA hard
drive and driver support is said to be absent, so just put WinXP Pro on. I
have a Lite-On SOHD-167T DVD-ROM (region freed :-)... Lite-On is great for
hacked firmware) on Primary master and a NEC 3500A DVD +/- R/W on Secondary
Master and no trouble with either.

>> It sounds like it lost its CMOS setup which could indicate a short or bad
>> battery. Are you sure the video card is mounted in its slot properly?...
>> sometimes you really have to push hard when the slots are new to make it
>> seat 100%. Are you sure the mbrd is mounted OK, with the holes well
>> aligned with the standoffs and no extra standoffs which could cause a
>> short?
>
>These are the inponderables I know not answers to. But with one PC 'down',
>the other lost a good number of files overnight so there's no Control Panel
>and just blank windows - aarrghh.
>
>
>> What did you choose from the BIOS Setup for a "Load" of settings? I've
>> seen the opinion that MSI has the "Optimized" setup set too aggressively
>on
>> timings - use the "Safe" settings and then go through all the options to
>> check them. If you had chosen their Dynamic Overclock option turn it
>off -
>> IMO it's fluff which is not worth the aggro. The only other thing I can
>> think of off-hand is the power supply - what brand & wattage and what is
>> the amps rating on the 12V rail?
>
>The assembler choose the BIOS settings, not myself -- personally I think I'm
>a bit out of my depth with going through these -- have concerns that I might
>'kill' the mbrd and void the warranty.
>The PSU is a 380 Tagan Silent and there are 2 case fans so its quite cool.

Some of the power supply mfrs had to boost the 12V output - e.g. Antec used
to be 18A on their TruePower 380, which I have in my Sonata, and changed it
to 24A. Your Tagan 380 is currently rated at 22A which should certainly be
enough.

For BIOS Setup, it's a good idea to get familiar with things in there - not
unknown for the mfr's defaults to be off - and you get some knowledge of
what's possible... even if you don't change anything to begin with. If in
doubt you always have the option of "Exit with no Changes".

IME with Win98, it's always better to do the initial install with all
frills, like network, sound, USB, Firewire, SATA etc., disabled in BIOS
Setup and then once the thing is working with a bare config + video + DMA
for drives, start enabling one by one and checking that the function works.
This is especially true for an ACPI capable system and there may even be
some Win98 updates you'd want to install before enabling the frills, e.g.
for USB. For a network with mapped drives, this one is essential to avoid
the shutdown hang:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/W...

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 29, 2004 11:56:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <cqsb4k$9qe$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
Kate <kate@REMOVEbillkath.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Have you run Prime95 Torture Test to check that the memory is working OK?
>> BTW I have the same mbrd with a 3500+ and 1GB of Crucial.
>
>Yes I remember you said you were about to put one together back in Nov - is
>it running fine then?
>Might there be an issue with Corsair Value Select ... we *we're* trying to
>keep within a budget :-)

FWIW, I just upgraded this evening from a dual Athlon MP 2100 to an Athlon
64 3500. The new processor is running on an ECS Extreme KV2 and I'm using 1
GB of PC3200 Corsair Value Select memory (2x512MB). As I write this, it's
building stage 1 of Gentoo for AMD64. That involves lots of compiling,
which tends to thrash memory a bit. So far, all is going OK. I also
briefly ran Prime95 and cpuburn under WinXP and didn't run into any
weirdness.

(I booted WinXP on the dually's install...it detected all of the new
hardware, rebooted, and worked without any further issues. I'd figure it
would keep up with a minor change in the underlying architecture (like going
from an nForce to an nForce2), but was half-expecting the switch from an AMD
760MPX to a VIA K8T800 Pro would cause it to choke. It's nice that it
didn't. I also had an x86 install of Gentoo on the system, but figured
switching from an x86 install to an AMD64 install would be a Good Thing.)

I'm fairly sure I've used the same brand of memory in other computers in the
past as well, and I've not run into problems with it.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 29, 2004 2:33:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Scott Alfter <salfter@salfter.diespammersdie.dyndns.org> wrote:
>FWIW, I just upgraded this evening from a dual Athlon MP 2100 to an Athlon
>64 3500. The new processor is running on an ECS Extreme KV2 and I'm using
>1 GB of PC3200 Corsair Value Select memory (2x512MB).

Um, that is not that big of an upgrade is it?

[I have dual Athlon MP 2000+'s, 1.2's, and 2400+'s, all are reasonably
snappy with 3GB, 2GB and 1GB installed respectively.]

If you are willing to part with the dual Athlon MP 2100+ for a reasonable
price, I'll be happy to take it off your hands :) 
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 29, 2004 2:35:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

Scott Alfter <salfter@salfter.diespammersdie.dyndns.org> wrote:
>FWIW, I just upgraded this evening from a dual Athlon MP 2100 to an Athlon
>64 3500. The new processor is running on an ECS Extreme KV2 and I'm using
>1 GB of PC3200 Corsair Value Select memory (2x512MB).

Um, that is not that big of an upgrade is it?

[I have dual Athlon MP 2000+'s, 1.2's, and 2400+'s, all are reasonably
snappy with 3GB, 2GB and 1GB installed respectively.]

If you are willing to part with the dual Athlon MP 2100+ for a reasonable
price, I'll be happy to take it off your hands :) 
December 30, 2004 1:36:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

George, once more thanx for your helpful comments -- its good to hear your
939's running well .... also sorta gives me hope :-)

Anyhows have got to POST now and the bios is v1.3 so that's OK and yes the
OS is Win 98SE. The shutdown hang does happen w/out the network having been
setup - that barrel of laughs is yet to come
:-0 It's good to hear there is a shutdown issue which MS has addressed -
right now Knowledge Base actually looks interesting ...

I do agree that its a good idea to get familiar with BIOS settings cos I
don't want to be a mindless PC user [!!!] tho I don't want to give the
vendor any grounds to suggest the PC instability is *my* doing.

They are still on holiday so in the latest installment -no pun intended - we
see the PC suddenly decide the 'overclocking' SETUP is now OK without any
intervention and no longer needs safe mode --- it subsequently asked for
some drivers then *lost* the DVD drive to install them from! So we had a
happy hour on that little loop.

As a result it had yet one more reformat and found its DVD drive to install
Win 98. Having just read your msg think it might be worth re-doing with all
the frills disabled in BIOS as you suggest.

BTW what is ACPI pls?

Kate

> IME with Win98, it's always better to do the initial install with all
> frills, like network, sound, USB, Firewire, SATA etc., disabled in BIOS
> Setup and then once the thing is working with a bare config + video + DMA
> for drives, start enabling one by one and checking that the function
works.
> This is especially true for an ACPI capable system and there may even be
> some Win98 updates you'd want to install before enabling the frills, e.g.
> for USB.
December 30, 2004 1:46:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

George, once more thanx for your helpful comments -- its good to hear your
939's running well .... also sorta gives me hope :-)

Anyhows have got to POST now and the bios is v1.3 so that's OK and yes the
OS is Win 98SE. The shutdown hang does happen w/out the network having been
setup - that barrel of laughs is yet to come
:-0 It's good to hear there is a shutdown issue which MS has addressed -
right now Knowledge Base actually looks interesting ...

I do agree that its a good idea to get familiar with BIOS settings cos I
don't want to be a mindless PC user [!!!] tho I don't want to give the
vendor any grounds to suggest the PC instability is *my* doing.

They are still on holiday so in the latest installment -no pun intended - we
see the PC suddenly decide the 'overclocking' SETUP is now OK without any
intervention and no longer needs safe mode --- it subsequently asked for
some drivers then *lost* the DVD drive to install them from! So we had a
happy hour on that little loop.

As a result it had yet one more reformat and found its DVD drive to install
Win 98. Having just read your msg think it might be worth re-doing with all
the frills disabled in BIOS as you suggest.

BTW what is ACPI pls?

-----
Kate

> IME with Win98, it's always better to do the initial install with all
> frills, like network, sound, USB, Firewire, SATA etc., disabled in BIOS
> Setup and then once the thing is working with a bare config + video + DMA
> for drives, start enabling one by one and checking that the function
works.
> This is especially true for an ACPI capable system and there may even be
> some Win98 updates you'd want to install before enabling the frills, e.g.
> for USB.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 30, 2004 4:36:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:36:45 -0000, "Kate"
<kate@REMOVEbillkath.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>George, once more thanx for your helpful comments -- its good to hear your
>939's running well .... also sorta gives me hope :-)
>
>Anyhows have got to POST now and the bios is v1.3 so that's OK and yes the
>OS is Win 98SE. The shutdown hang does happen w/out the network having been
>setup - that barrel of laughs is yet to come
>:-0 It's good to hear there is a shutdown issue which MS has addressed -
>right now Knowledge Base actually looks interesting ...
>
>I do agree that its a good idea to get familiar with BIOS settings cos I
>don't want to be a mindless PC user [!!!] tho I don't want to give the
>vendor any grounds to suggest the PC instability is *my* doing.
>
>They are still on holiday so in the latest installment -no pun intended - we
>see the PC suddenly decide the 'overclocking' SETUP is now OK without any
>intervention and no longer needs safe mode --- it subsequently asked for
>some drivers then *lost* the DVD drive to install them from! So we had a
>happy hour on that little loop.
>
>As a result it had yet one more reformat and found its DVD drive to install
>Win 98. Having just read your msg think it might be worth re-doing with all
>the frills disabled in BIOS as you suggest.

Check out Device Manager to see what devices are shown with alerts if any.

>BTW what is ACPI pls?

Advanced Configuration & Power Interface. Before that there was APM
(Advanced Power Management) which worked quite well with Win98SE. ACPI
allows all the PnP device resources (IRQs, I/O addresses) to be detected,
assigned and handled in conjunction with power states (Standby, Suspend) -
e.g. all interrupts are handled through a single hardware interrupt, IRQ9
usually, with actual device interrupts being handled through an extended
set of virtualized interrupts... e.g. in Device Manager, you'll see devices
with an IRQ of 20 and greater.

It works fine with WinXP and is an advantage there... e.g. much easier to
wake up devices from sleepstate if everything is tied into a unified
package which controls power state *and* resources; I've never seen it work
properly with Win98SE though there may be some people, with later mbrds,
who have. Something else you might want to consider disabling in BIOS
Setup... IIRC under Chipset Setup.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
December 30, 2004 11:02:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

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In article <cqu4m0$1835$1@news.ntu.edu.tw>,
root <root@precision.moscito.org> wrote:
>Scott Alfter <salfter@salfter.diespammersdie.dyndns.org> wrote:
>>FWIW, I just upgraded this evening from a dual Athlon MP 2100 to an Athlon
>>64 3500. The new processor is running on an ECS Extreme KV2 and I'm using
>>1 GB of PC3200 Corsair Value Select memory (2x512MB).
>
>Um, that is not that big of an upgrade is it?

Speed will probably be about the same for 32-bit apps, but it should run
cooler. It's definitely quieter. There's also the speed boost you can get
from 64-bit apps (Gentoo Linux for AMD64 is going on it as I write this),
and there's been talk of dual-core processors in the future that could vault
it ahead (though this is just speculation at this point).

While 3500<2*2100, other architectural improvements that accompanied the
upgrade (dual-channel 400-MHz memory instead of single-channel 266-MHz
memory, moving most peripherals off the PCI bus, etc.) should make up for it
somewhat. Having a ton more built-in peripherals is also kinda spiffy...
the four PCI cards that added more IDE interfaces, audio, FireWire, and USB
2.0 aren't installed on the new board. It's running with just an
All-In-Wonder Radeon in the AGP slot and all of the PCI slots empty.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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January 1, 2005 3:36:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

There seem to be some problems then in running an older OS with newer
systems ... It's clear that *some* of the issues we're having are software
'incompatibilities' rather than actual hardware faults, which I 'spose at
this stage is encouraging.
Your comments re workarounds sound helpful since we really don't want to buy
2 copies of XP with the 64 bit OS not that far away ....

Finally spoke with vendor yesterday who advised us to reset the BIOS to
overcome the supposed 'overclocking issue', but have told him we're
concerned about why this happened -- so its going back in on Tues/Weds for
a thorough checkout.

You mentioned running 'Prime95 Torture Test' - is this a piece of software
that's generally available or is it specific to PC assemblers only?

Kate

> >BTW what is ACPI pls?

> It works fine with WinXP and is an advantage there... e.g. much easier to
> wake up devices from sleepstate if everything is tied into a unified
> package which controls power state *and* resources; I've never seen it
work
> properly with Win98SE though there may be some people, with later mbrds,
> who have. Something else you might want to consider disabling in BIOS
> Setup... IIRC under Chipset Setup.
>
January 1, 2005 3:36:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:36:56 -0000, "Kate"
<kate@REMOVEbillkath.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>You mentioned running 'Prime95 Torture Test' - is this a piece of software
>that's generally available or is it specific to PC assemblers only?
>
>Kate

Download Prime95...
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
January 1, 2005 10:58:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:36:56 -0000, "Kate" <kate@REMOVEbillkath.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>There seem to be some problems then in running an older OS with newer
>systems ... It's clear that *some* of the issues we're having are software
>'incompatibilities' rather than actual hardware faults, which I 'spose at
>this stage is encouraging.

You *can* get problems if the old OS doesn't have any support for a device
which is claiming PnP resources, e.g. SATA.

>Your comments re workarounds sound helpful since we really don't want to buy
>2 copies of XP with the 64 bit OS not that far away ....
>
>Finally spoke with vendor yesterday who advised us to reset the BIOS to
>overcome the supposed 'overclocking issue', but have told him we're
>concerned about why this happened -- so its going back in on Tues/Weds for
>a thorough checkout.

I've seen such things happen with a failure to shutdown properly - IOW
pressing the power swicth on an ATX power supply to force the shutdown has
occasionally caused the next power up to complain that the FSB bus speed
has been "lost".

>You mentioned running 'Prime95 Torture Test' - is this a piece of software
>that's generally available or is it specific to PC assemblers only?

I see someone else has already pointed you to www.mersenne.org - I consider
Prime95 a useful memory test since it runs under Windows, and therefore
protected mode, and usually run it as an additional check on memory
integrity. Before loading any OS on a new system, I always run memtest86+,
www.memtest.org, to check the memory first.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
!