Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

just posting to see what you guys thought about the new pci board gigabyte
have unveiled which lets you slot normal ddr ram into it and has a chip
which lets it function as a sata disk. the battery keeps the data on the
ram active for upto 16 hours and apparently the major bottleneck now is
the sata interface.

now i know you could do this in software without the ability to save when
the power goes off but its still cool.

ram prices are so cheap now that £100 would probably get you the adaptor
and 2 gigs or ram. while this may mean windows users need to keep their os
and program files on separate disks im certain i could fit a full gentoo
install with kde and all the bloatware and that would certainly speed up
the compile times.

link
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshow [...] i=2431&p=5

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
newsan.2005.05.30.17.20.33.836490@null.com...
> just posting to see what you guys thought about the new pci board
> gigabyte
> have unveiled which lets you slot normal ddr ram into it and has a chip
> which lets it function as a sata disk. the battery keeps the data on
> the
> ram active for upto 16 hours and apparently the major bottleneck now is
> the sata interface.
>
> now i know you could do this in software without the ability to save
> when
> the power goes off but its still cool.
>
> ram prices are so cheap now that £100 would probably get you the
> adaptor
> and 2 gigs or ram. while this may mean windows users need to keep their
> os
> and program files on separate disks im certain i could fit a full
> gentoo
> install with kde and all the bloatware and that would certainly speed
> up
> the compile times.
>
> link
> http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshow [...] i=2431&p=5

All you need is battery backup for the system or "Continuously powered
mainstore" like on i-Series. This solution is not cool, it is stupid.
You have to remember to move the data around, or sometime you will kick
the plug out or power the system down for more than 16 hours, and then
you be crying.

del cecchi

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

It's better to use something like flash memory to do this storage, as
that requires no power whatsoever to keep the data intact. It's slower
than RAM, but it's probably faster than disk.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

According to Del Cecchi <dcecchi.nospam@att.net>:
> "epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.05.30.17.20.33.836490@null.com...
> > just posting to see what you guys thought about the new pci board
> > gigabyte have unveiled which lets you slot normal ddr ram into it
> > and has a chip which lets it function as a sata disk.

For US$50, I think it is worth trying.

> > the battery keeps the data on the ram active for upto 16 hours

I wonder if the card runs off +5Vsb, so that it can keep data indefinitely
when the PC is plugged in but not powered on? In that case, 16-hours seems
good enough.

> > and apparently the major bottleneck now is the sata interface.

I also wonder why they went the "emulate SATA disk" rather than the "emulate
ATA/SATA controller" route, if they went to the trouble of making this a PCI
card. I guess it is easier to verify (no driver issues) in the former case.

> All you need is battery backup for the system or "Continuously powered
> mainstore" like on i-Series. This solution is not cool, it is stupid.

I disagree. This lets you add 4 DIMM slots (a scarce resource for desktop
motherboards) per card for US$50. Okay, it will not be as fast as main
memory, but the price is reasonable in terms of fast storage.

Another advantage is its OS-independence. Being able to have some storage
that survives an OS reboot (without having to resort to dumping it out to
disk) can be valuable.

> You have to remember to move the data around, or sometime you will kick
> the plug out or power the system down for more than 16 hours, and then
> you be crying.

True. I don't see why you cannot have a separate AC-adaptor (another hated
wall wart ) for the card to solve the 16-hour limit, even though that
will not help the kicking-out-plug problem

Stephen

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On 5/31/2005 16:07, YKhan wrote:
> It's better to use something like flash memory to do this storage, as
> that requires no power whatsoever to keep the data intact. It's slower
> than RAM, but it's probably faster than disk.

Tho, flash has a somewhat limited lifespan when there's a lot of writes
involved.

This type of thing seems like a great idea for a mail spool or HPC cluster
data maybe.

~Jason

--

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 14:02:20 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:

>
> "epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.05.30.17.20.33.836490@null.com...
>> just posting to see what you guys thought about the new pci board
>> gigabyte
>> have unveiled which lets you slot normal ddr ram into it and has a chip
>> which lets it function as a sata disk. the battery keeps the data on
>> the
>> ram active for upto 16 hours and apparently the major bottleneck now is
>> the sata interface.
>>
>> now i know you could do this in software without the ability to save
>> when
>> the power goes off but its still cool.
>>
>> ram prices are so cheap now that £100 would probably get you the
>> adaptor
>> and 2 gigs or ram. while this may mean windows users need to keep their
>> os
>> and program files on separate disks im certain i could fit a full
>> gentoo
>> install with kde and all the bloatware and that would certainly speed
>> up
>> the compile times.
>>
>> link
>> http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshow [...] i=2431&p=5
>
> All you need is battery backup for the system or "Continuously powered
> mainstore" like on i-Series. This solution is not cool, it is stupid.
> You have to remember to move the data around, or sometime you will kick
> the plug out or power the system down for more than 16 hours, and then
> you be crying.

Next up, RAID RAM drives! Than all that's needed is TMR power.

--
Keith

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 16:13:22 +0000, epaton wrote:

> just posting to see what you guys thought about the new pci board gigabyte
> have unveiled which lets you slot normal ddr ram into it and has a chip
> which lets it function as a sata disk. the battery keeps the data on the
> ram active for upto 16 hours and apparently the major bottleneck now is
> the sata interface.
>
> now i know you could do this in software without the ability to save when
> the power goes off but its still cool.
>
> ram prices are so cheap now that £100 would probably get you the adaptor
> and 2 gigs or ram. while this may mean windows users need to keep their os
> and program files on separate disks im certain i could fit a full gentoo
> install with kde and all the bloatware and that would certainly speed up
> the compile times.
>
> link
> http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshow [...] i=2431&p=5


with regards to byte errors would it be possible to build in a ecc unit
into the controler unit or does it have to be part of the ram.

my understanding is the ecc is just an added chip onto the ram so if it
were possible have a single chip outside slightly further away and this
thing is being charged while plugged in but not powered on i think they
are onto a winner. hell i can see people buying these just as an excuse to
upgrade their ram.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

According to epaton <epaton@null.com>:
>
> with regards to byte errors would it be possible to build in a ecc unit
> into the controler unit or does it have to be part of the ram.

Actually it has to be part of the controller. The DIMM sticks contain only
dumb DRAM chips (+buffers for registered RAM), there is no ECC unit on them.
With creative design of the controller one can even some up with something
like this.

http://searchstorage.techtarget.co [...] 77,00.html

> my understanding is the ecc is just an added chip onto the ram so if it
> were possible have a single chip outside slightly further away and this
> thing is being charged while plugged in but not powered on i think they
> are onto a winner. hell i can see people buying these just as an excuse to
> upgrade their ram.

ECC does need an additional RAM chip on the module. The chip is no
different from the other chips on the same module, it just provides more
space to store redundant information (ecc) so errors can be detected. It is
up to the controller to calculate those information.

Stephen

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

"Stephen Lee -- post replies please" <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote in
message news:8vk9n2-va5.ln1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
> According to epaton <epaton@null.com>:
>>
>> with regards to byte errors would it be possible to build in a ecc
>> unit
>> into the controler unit or does it have to be part of the ram.
>
> Actually it has to be part of the controller. The DIMM sticks contain
> only
> dumb DRAM chips (+buffers for registered RAM), there is no ECC unit on
> them.
> With creative design of the controller one can even some up with
> something
> like this.
>
> http://searchstorage.techtarget.co [...] 77,00.html
>
>> my understanding is the ecc is just an added chip onto the ram so if
>> it
>> were possible have a single chip outside slightly further away and
>> this
>> thing is being charged while plugged in but not powered on i think
>> they
>> are onto a winner. hell i can see people buying these just as an
>> excuse to
>> upgrade their ram.
>
> ECC does need an additional RAM chip on the module. The chip is no
> different from the other chips on the same module, it just provides
> more
> space to store redundant information (ecc) so errors can be detected.
> It is
> up to the controller to calculate those information.
>
> Stephen

One could put in "chip kill" or "package codes" And one can even use
vanilla dimms, just need an extra or so. But PCI is so slow it shouldn't
be a big deal to do whatever you want.

del cecchi