Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (939) & Abit AN8 'Fatal1ty': Compatible?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
90 answers Last reply
More about athlon 4600 abit fatal1ty compatible
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
    >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?

    From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
    website:

    "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
    Processors"

    http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=Fatal1ty+AN8+SLI&fMTYPE=Socket+939&DEFTITLE=Y


    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    "Tony Hill" <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
    news:soc9c1d9h2oqdnks46ujg9evh33d540naq@4ax.com...
    > On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
    >>know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
    >
    > From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
    > website:
    >
    > "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
    > Processors"
    >
    > http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=Fatal1ty+AN8+SLI&fMTYPE=Socket+939&DEFTITLE=Y
    >
    >
    > -------------
    > Tony Hill
    > hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

    Me, I have this nazi fanboy killfiled. I wouldn't reply to him if he was
    along side the road on fire.

    del
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Tony Hill wrote:
    > On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
    > >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
    >
    > From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
    > website:
    >
    > "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
    > Processors"
    >
    > http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=Fatal1ty+AN8+SLI&fMTYPE=Socket+939&DEFTITLE=Y
    >
    >
    > -------------
    > Tony Hill
    > hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

    Appreciate it, Tony. I'm fairly certain that a month ago the
    specifications page didn't mention X2 dual-core. I didn't bother to
    check it again, instead choosing to get an answer from 'live' people.

    Cecchi - You're mindless garbage.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    John Lewis wrote:
    > On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
    > >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
    > >
    >
    > AN8 BIOS Version 1.5 supports dual-core (released 20-June-2005)
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > With regard to the general issue of Socket-939 BIOS updates for X2,
    > please note the following:-
    >
    > No mention of X2 in the BIOS update docs, then beware. Especially
    > if you are contemplating a new purchase. Also, even if the BIOS is
    > updated, remember it takes quite a while for the retail channel to be
    > purged !!! Check with the supplier as to the BIOS version shipped
    > in the board, if they know....( and their return-policy !!! )

    Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
    probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
    though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
    compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
    merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?

    >
    > An X2 might just not work at all in a board which has not had its
    > BIOS updated ( the BIOS docs are silent on this subject ).
    > And if the board does not work at all, obviously you will not be
    > able to read the BIOS version, to find out whether the BIOS
    > might be the problem, or something else in a new installation is
    > screwed up. Hence, a perfect Catch 22 - you may need to install
    > a non-X2 just to check motherboard functionality and update the
    > BIOS :-(. No problem for a small system-builder. A big problem
    > for the do-it-yourself guy building a first-time Socket-939 X2 system.
    >
    > And of course, if you are upgrading an existing Socket-939
    > board to X2, remember to update the BIOS to add X2-compatibility
    > BEFORE removing the old processor..................
    >
    > John Lewis
    >
    > - Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.

    Much appreciated, John.

    By the way, here's some information on dual-core benchmarks:

    "Benchmarks revealed significant performance gains for multithreaded
    benchmarks, with Cinebench showing an 87% performance gain going from
    one core to two. Interestingly enough, the dual-core Athlon 64
    outperforms a true dual-CPU Opteron 250 2.4GHz setup, coming in second
    only to a dual 3.6GHz Xeon setup with Hyper-Threading turned on (four
    logical CPUs)."
    http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Mar/gee20050314029588.htm
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
    >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
    >

    AN8 BIOS Version 1.5 supports dual-core (released 20-June-2005)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    With regard to the general issue of Socket-939 BIOS updates for X2,
    please note the following:-

    No mention of X2 in the BIOS update docs, then beware. Especially
    if you are contemplating a new purchase. Also, even if the BIOS is
    updated, remember it takes quite a while for the retail channel to be
    purged !!! Check with the supplier as to the BIOS version shipped
    in the board, if they know....( and their return-policy !!! )

    An X2 might just not work at all in a board which has not had its
    BIOS updated ( the BIOS docs are silent on this subject ).
    And if the board does not work at all, obviously you will not be
    able to read the BIOS version, to find out whether the BIOS
    might be the problem, or something else in a new installation is
    screwed up. Hence, a perfect Catch 22 - you may need to install
    a non-X2 just to check motherboard functionality and update the
    BIOS :-(. No problem for a small system-builder. A big problem
    for the do-it-yourself guy building a first-time Socket-939 X2 system.

    And of course, if you are upgrading an existing Socket-939
    board to X2, remember to update the BIOS to add X2-compatibility
    BEFORE removing the old processor..................

    John Lewis

    - Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > The BIOS for the dual-core is probably quite different
    > from the regular 939 processor.

    Why would you think this? From a software perspective,
    there is almost no difference between dual core and SMP.

    SMP BIOSes have been around forever, and aren't particularly
    complex. One CPU is hardwired as the BSP (Boot Service
    Processor) and runs all BIOS functions and uniproc OSes like
    MS-DOC and MS-Windows9*.

    It also loads SMP OSes which _then_ activate the other
    processors via various IPIs.

    > http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Mar/gee20050314029588.htm
    > for multithreaded benchmarks, with Cinebench showing
    > an 87% performance gain going from one core to two.

    Sounds like a fetch stalled app, governed by memory
    latency.

    > Interestingly enough, the dual-core Athlon 64
    > outperforms a true dual-CPU Opteron 250 2.4GHz setup,

    Yep. For sure. Dual core has only one memory
    controller, so will be faster than bus arbitration.

    > coming in second only to a dual 3.6GHz Xeon setup
    > with Hyper-Threading turned on (four logical CPUs)."

    That can have four outstanding fetches at once. Yawn.

    -- Robert
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:28:45 -0700, aether wrote:

    > Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
    > probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
    > though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
    > compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
    > merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?
    >
    If your current bios supports the core of the X2 CPU you buy, but doen't
    support dual core, it should boot only using one core. Then you can
    upgrade the bios to get dual core support. OTOH, if your current bios
    doesn't support a non dual cpu of the same core, you're screwed until you
    upgrade the bios by some other means.

    --
    KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
    Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
    My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
    Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 1 Jul 2005 13:28:45 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >John Lewis wrote:
    >> On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
    >> >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
    >> >
    >>
    >> AN8 BIOS Version 1.5 supports dual-core (released 20-June-2005)
    >>
    >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>
    >> With regard to the general issue of Socket-939 BIOS updates for X2,
    >> please note the following:-
    >>
    >> No mention of X2 in the BIOS update docs, then beware. Especially
    >> if you are contemplating a new purchase. Also, even if the BIOS is
    >> updated, remember it takes quite a while for the retail channel to be
    >> purged !!! Check with the supplier as to the BIOS version shipped
    >> in the board, if they know....( and their return-policy !!! )
    >
    >Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
    >probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
    >though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
    >compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
    >merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?
    >

    Of course.... all the upgrades do !! Cannot have a board shipping with
    the latest BIOS not work for >95% of current purchasers - those who do

    not choose to buy a X2, at least initially.

    John Lewis

    - Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:19:43 GMT, Wes Newell
    <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote:

    >On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:28:45 -0700, aether wrote:
    >
    >> Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
    >> probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
    >> though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
    >> compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
    >> merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?
    >>
    >If your current bios supports the core of the X2 CPU you buy, but doen't
    >support dual core, it should boot only using one core.

    Likely, but no guarantee at all !!! If not confirmed in the BIOS docs,
    you always have to assume that Murphy's Law applies.

    > Then you can
    >upgrade the bios to get dual core support.

    >OTOH, if your current bios
    >doesn't support a non dual cpu of the same core, you're screwed until you
    >upgrade the bios by some other means.
    >

    If the BIOS has been upgraded to support X2, then it will always work
    with a non-X2 A64. Otherwise, 2 different versions of a MB would have
    to be shipped, the only difference being the BIOS - a non-starter.
    Backward compatibility is guaranteed.

    John Lewis
    - Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:21:09 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
    <dcecchi.nospam@att.net> wrote:
    >> From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
    >> website:
    >>
    >> "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
    >> Processors"
    >>
    >
    >Me, I have this nazi fanboy killfiled. I wouldn't reply to him if he was
    >along side the road on fire.
    >

    Hmm.. I didn't even notice it was the same moron. I just stopped
    reading that thread as soon as he started pointing to Nazi Germany as
    some sort of example of a "good" society. Clearly anyone who believes
    such nonsense is well beyond the point of having a meaningful
    conversation with.

    -------------
    Tony Hill
    hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:07:51 -0400, Tony Hill wrote:

    > On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:21:09 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
    > <dcecchi.nospam@att.net> wrote:
    >>> From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
    >>> website:
    >>>
    >>> "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
    >>> Processors"
    >>>
    >>
    >>Me, I have this nazi fanboy killfiled. I wouldn't reply to him if he was
    >>along side the road on fire.
    >>
    >
    > Hmm.. I didn't even notice it was the same moron. I just stopped
    > reading that thread as soon as he started pointing to Nazi Germany as
    > some sort of example of a "good" society. Clearly anyone who believes
    > such nonsense is well beyond the point of having a meaningful
    > conversation with.
    >
    > -------------
    > Tony Hill
    > hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

    Kinda of like calling Guantanamo a gulag! When this dude is running around
    as president elect of Iran oh, the irony.

    http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-07-05T161720Z_01_SPI555308_RTRUKOC_0_AUSTRIA-IRAN.xml

    Its funny how much the media distorts things just to suite their agenda.

    Gnu_Raiz
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    irrelevancy.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
    > Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
    > wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said
    > Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
    > Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
    > to a nicer chap. 8>.
    >
    > --
    > GSV Three Minds in a Can
    > Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

    The British, perhaps. Third world squatters couldn't care less about
    Nelson -- and they are the future of Britain.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    > America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    > irrelevancy.
    >

    But not till after the 2012 Olympics.

    --
    Remove the dross to contact me directly
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    > America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    > irrelevancy.
    >
    Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:47:50 +0000, Lee Waun wrote:

    >
    > "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    >> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    >> irrelevancy.
    >>
    > Sort of like France did 60 years ago.

    At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
    though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)

    --
    Keith
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Nothing that the horrifically superficial and shortsighted Brits do
    surprises me. They celebrate over the irrelevant 2012 Olympics while
    the city it's to be played in, their capitol, is lost to them forever.

    "London is the ideal place to study the economic and social impact of
    Third World immigration into Britain. Not only does the capital contain
    more than half of the total number of the UK's ethnic minorities, but
    demographic studies have shown, that, given current immigration and
    natural reproduction rates, Whites will be a minority in London by
    2010."

    (2) The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3,
    2000, http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,00.html

    The fat traitor himself, Churchill, would vomit out of disgust if he
    walked the streets of London today -- after being assaulted and mugged.
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
    wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said

    >>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    >>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    >>> irrelevancy.
    >>>
    >> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
    >
    >At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
    >though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)

    And they won two world wars .. oh wait, they needed help, didn't they.
    Lucky those English, Canadians, and Americans were around (Doesn't Oz
    and NZ deserve a mention?)

    Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
    Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
    to a nicer chap. 8>.

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:02:35 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
    <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

    >Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
    >wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said
    >
    >>>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    >>>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    >>>> irrelevancy.
    >>>>
    >>> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
    >>
    >>At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
    >>though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)
    >
    >And they won two world wars .. oh wait, they needed help, didn't they.
    >Lucky those English, Canadians, and Americans were around (Doesn't Oz
    >and NZ deserve a mention?)
    >
    >Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
    >Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
    >to a nicer chap. 8>.
    >

    Even more pi$$ed off now that London got the 2012 Olympics by 4 votes
    over Paris.

    John Lewis

    >--
    >GSV Three Minds in a Can
    >Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:54:08 +0000, John Lewis wrote:

    > On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:02:35 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
    > <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
    >>wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said
    >>
    >>>>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    >>>>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    >>>>> irrelevancy.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
    >>>
    >>>At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
    >>>though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)
    >>
    >>And they won two world wars .. oh wait, they needed help, didn't they.
    >>Lucky those English, Canadians, and Americans were around (Doesn't Oz
    >>and NZ deserve a mention?)
    >>
    >>Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
    >>Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
    >>to a nicer chap. 8>.
    >>
    >
    > Even more pi$$ed off now that London got the 2012 Olympics by 4 votes
    > over Paris.

    Two from the Finns, that Chirac dissed even over the Britts! Amazing
    incompetence, though not at all surprising! Were there oil chits involved
    in losing this one?

    --
    Keith
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    patrickp wrote:
    That would appear to rate "aether," if he really
    > believes what he quotes, as more gullible than a National Front moron,
    > and that takes some doing! Apart from anything else, a very large
    > component of immigration into this country now is actually white,
    > mostly people from Eastern Europe.
    >
    > <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...

    You're clearly deluding yourself. The information presented is drawn
    from official government data, as assembled by the British Observer.
    Whites in Britain will be a minority long before 2100, and I suspect
    they're already as such in London. The non-White population in England
    and Wales has grown by three per cent over the last decade alone to
    nine per cent -- and that's the official government data. Real figures
    are likely higher. In the UK as a whole, the population of non-Whites
    far exceeds the population of the Republic of Ireland. Leicester, for
    instance, is almost devoid of Whites in most areas. You're the moron,
    bud.

    The source of the data:

    The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3, 2000,
    http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,00.html

    More information I present which can't be countered:

    'Whites are quitting cities' as immigrants move in: UK (note how 'The
    Sun' took down the link to the article)
    http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=84322

    Whites blessed by diversity and multiculturalism: (they're dead)
    http://www.drypool.net/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=nfflist

    In Holland, The Same Process Is Occurring
    Dutch Emigrate as Muslims Immigrate
    http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17199

    Eventually, Britain must become Fascist in order to save itself. As
    must all of Europe. Otherwise, get to know your local Mullah and learn
    Arabic.
  22. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    The funny thing about that last post of mine, is that it was made
    before the bombs went off.

    See what the combination of reason and data can bring about? A modern
    day prophet.

    Simpletons.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 6 Jul 2005 20:58:55 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >Nothing that the horrifically superficial and shortsighted Brits do
    >surprises me. They celebrate over the irrelevant 2012 Olympics while
    >the city it's to be played in, their capitol, is lost to them forever.
    >
    >"London is the ideal place to study the economic and social impact of
    >Third World immigration into Britain. Not only does the capital contain
    >more than half of the total number of the UK's ethnic minorities, but
    >demographic studies have shown, that, given current immigration and
    >natural reproduction rates, Whites will be a minority in London by
    >2010."
    >
    >(2) The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3,
    >2000, http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,00.html
    >
    >The fat traitor himself, Churchill, would vomit out of disgust if he
    >walked the streets of London today -- after being assaulted and mugged.


    "Not only does the capital contain more than half of the total number
    of the UK's ethnic minorities" simply points out how small the actual
    immigrant population actually is in the UK.

    In the early 80s, I lived just behind Railton Road in Brixton,
    arguably the London area at the time with the densest black
    population. Nevertheless, most of the the people living in that road
    were white.

    Since then, immigration _has_ increased and immigrant populations have
    risen. They're still small, though, and as for whites being a
    minority by 2010, that's laughable - not even a National Front moron
    would believe it. That would appear to rate "aether," if he really
    believes what he quotes, as more gullible than a National Front moron,
    and that takes some doing! Apart from anything else, a very large
    component of immigration into this country now is actually white,
    mostly people from Eastern Europe.

    <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
  24. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    "keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz...
    > On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:47:50 +0000, Lee Waun wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
    >>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
    >>> irrelevancy.
    >>>
    >> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
    >
    > At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
    > though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)
    >
    Who set of the bombs in London?

    Dave
  25. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 7 Jul 2005 02:41:03 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >patrickp wrote:
    >That would appear to rate "aether," if he really
    >> believes what he quotes, as more gullible than a National Front moron,
    >> and that takes some doing! Apart from anything else, a very large
    >> component of immigration into this country now is actually white,
    >> mostly people from Eastern Europe.
    >>
    >> <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
    >
    >You're clearly deluding yourself. The information presented is drawn
    >from official government data, as assembled by the British Observer.
    >Whites in Britain will be a minority long before 2100, and I suspect
    >they're already as such in London. The non-White population in England
    >and Wales has grown by three per cent over the last decade alone to
    >nine per cent -- and that's the official government data. Real figures
    >are likely higher. In the UK as a whole, the population of non-Whites
    >far exceeds the population of the Republic of Ireland. Leicester, for
    >instance, is almost devoid of Whites in most areas. You're the moron,
    >bud.
    >
    >The source of the data:
    >
    >The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3, 2000,
    >http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,00.html
    >
    >More information I present which can't be countered:
    >
    >'Whites are quitting cities' as immigrants move in: UK (note how 'The
    >Sun' took down the link to the article)
    >http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=84322
    >
    >Whites blessed by diversity and multiculturalism: (they're dead)
    >http://www.drypool.net/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=nfflist
    >
    >In Holland, The Same Process Is Occurring
    >Dutch Emigrate as Muslims Immigrate
    >http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17199
    >
    >Eventually, Britain must become Fascist in order to save itself. As
    >must all of Europe. Otherwise, get to know your local Mullah and learn
    >Arabic.


    2100? You said 2010. By 2100, it will be a pointless issue, as the
    ethnicities of all the people coming into the country now will have
    been thoroughly homogenised - you're talking 95 years!

    And by 2010, your original figure - no chance! I notice you've
    carefully removed the parts of your previous post and my reply where
    we both used that figure. Get it right! And don't call others morons
    without checking your own intelligence level - the comparison would
    not seem to be in your favour.

    Patrick

    <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
  26. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    >>>2100? You said 2010. By 2100, it will be a pointless issue, as the
    ethnicities of all the people coming into the country now will have
    been thoroughly homogenised - you're talking 95 years!<<<

    Are you on any medications or do you generally not pay attention? The
    2010 figure is for the city of London. The 2100 estimate is for the UK
    in it's entirety. Personally, I think both figures are
    underestimations. London is already a majority non-White city, and the
    UK as a whole should be a majority non-White country within 35 years.
    It's a matter of simple mathematics. The 'immigrants' and 'asylum
    seekers' have tremendously high birthrates, and hundreds of thousands
    more are joining them every year. Native Brits, on the other hand, have
    birth rates below replacement level.
  27. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    >>>That's laughable. I live and work in SE London, one of the city areas
    with the highest immigrant populations, and my job is with the
    Greenwich LEA. Part of what I do is to administer school meals
    centrally, which involves working with Asylum Seeker and ethnicity
    figures for free school meals. And I can tell you - your ideas about
    immigration in London are rubbish.

    And as for your 2100 ideas - they're both rubbish and meaningless.
    You clearly haven't stopped to consider the obvious: immimgrant
    populations don't keep on being immigrants. They integrate into the
    local population. In 95 years time, all the immigrant population of
    today, and of the next 80 to 95 years, will have become British - and
    that's even assuming that levels of immigration remain constant,
    which, over a period of 95 years, is extraordinarily unlikely.<<<<

    I almost feel for one deluded such as yourself. You live in a fantasy
    world which exists only in your mind. Reality surrounds you, but you're
    trapped in your own little world. It'd be a case study for mental
    illness, if it weren't so common. In inner London, 55 per cent of all
    births are to foreign-born mothers. According to the Department for
    Work and Pensions, an astonishing 61 per cent of Bangladeshis in
    Britain are either unemployed or economically inactive, compared with
    just 23 per cent of the White population, while 45 per cent of Africans
    are unemployed. Overall, 41 per cent of ethnic minorities are without
    jobs - hardly the dynamic contribution so often portrayed in state
    propaganda.

    According to the British Crime Survey, 31 per cent of all street
    robberies in Britain are committed by criminals of African-Caribbean
    origin, while at least 60 per cent of all muggings in London are
    perpetrated by blacks.

    This information means little to you, of course, because you're not
    right in the head. To rational British people, nothing is more
    important.
  28. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 7 Jul 2005 19:13:29 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >>>>2100? You said 2010. By 2100, it will be a pointless issue, as the
    >ethnicities of all the people coming into the country now will have
    >been thoroughly homogenised - you're talking 95 years!<<<
    >
    >Are you on any medications or do you generally not pay attention? The
    >2010 figure is for the city of London. The 2100 estimate is for the UK
    >in it's entirety. Personally, I think both figures are
    >underestimations. London is already a majority non-White city, and the
    >UK as a whole should be a majority non-White country within 35 years.
    >It's a matter of simple mathematics. The 'immigrants' and 'asylum
    >seekers' have tremendously high birthrates, and hundreds of thousands
    >more are joining them every year. Native Brits, on the other hand, have
    >birth rates below replacement level.


    That's laughable. I live and work in SE London, one of the city areas
    with the highest immigrant populations, and my job is with the
    Greenwich LEA. Part of what I do is to administer school meals
    centrally, which involves working with Asylum Seeker and ethnicity
    figures for free school meals. And I can tell you - your ideas about
    immigration in London are rubbish.

    And as for your 2100 ideas - they're both rubbish and meaningless.
    You clearly haven't stopped to consider the obvious: immimgrant
    populations don't keep on being immigrants. They integrate into the
    local population. In 95 years time, all the immigrant population of
    today, and of the next 80 to 95 years, will have become British - and
    that's even assuming that levels of immigration remain constant,
    which, over a period of 95 years, is extraordinarily unlikely.

    And the other misapprehension you appear to be labouring under is that
    immigration is necessarily a bad thing. By this standard, the makeup
    of the present population of North America must horrify you - it's
    almost entirely made up from immigrant populations from the last 500
    years or so. Perhaps the Native American (I hope that's the correct
    term - I'm not American) population might agree with you, but I doubt
    that most of the people in North America would.

    And, as for London already being a majority non-white city... that
    shows where you're coming from - cloud cuckoo land! Even the local
    National Front morons would laugh at you for that!

    I notice you're careful not to make any declarations about who you are
    or where you're from - a wise move for someone who posts as
    ludicrously as you do - but I'm willing to bet it's nowhere near the
    UK, or you'd know better. I'd guess North America, and you're one of
    the majority immigrant population...

    Patrick

    <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
  29. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Bitstring <1120819750.703720.157690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, from
    the bigottedl person aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> said
    <snip>
    >According to the British Crime Survey, 31 per cent of all street
    >robberies in Britain are committed by criminals of African-Caribbean
    >origin, while at least 60 per cent of all muggings in London are
    >perpetrated by blacks.

    Yeah well, once it was 60% of violent crimes are committed by Vikings,
    and then it was 80% of property crimes were perpetrated by Normans. back
    before then, the Dinosaurs thought they owned the country too. In the
    future you'll discover that the AIs are pretty p!ssed off when the Post
    Singularity CIs take over all the best hardware.

    Grow up. Or better yet leave, we'd be well rid of you.
    Oh yes, while I remember, <plonk>

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    The crux of the hostility on the part of others in this thread, is that
    I'm hateful and wrong for believing diversity is folly.

    I believe that, and I quote, "A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is
    against most historical precedent." (Dick Lamm; former Governor of
    Colorado)

    Upon examining history, one finds that so-called 'diverse' societies
    are in ceaseless conflict, rarely stable, and always unhappy.

    Japan, I believe, should be the model of the West. For Japan has a
    past, a present, and a future.
  31. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 8 Jul 2005 03:49:10 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >>>>That's laughable. I live and work in SE London, one of the city areas
    >with the highest immigrant populations, and my job is with the
    >Greenwich LEA. Part of what I do is to administer school meals
    >centrally, which involves working with Asylum Seeker and ethnicity
    >figures for free school meals. And I can tell you - your ideas about
    >immigration in London are rubbish.
    >
    >And as for your 2100 ideas - they're both rubbish and meaningless.
    >You clearly haven't stopped to consider the obvious: immimgrant
    >populations don't keep on being immigrants. They integrate into the
    >local population. In 95 years time, all the immigrant population of
    >today, and of the next 80 to 95 years, will have become British - and
    >that's even assuming that levels of immigration remain constant,
    >which, over a period of 95 years, is extraordinarily unlikely.<<<<
    >
    >I almost feel for one deluded such as yourself. You live in a fantasy
    >world which exists only in your mind. Reality surrounds you, but you're
    >trapped in your own little world. It'd be a case study for mental
    >illness, if it weren't so common. In inner London, 55 per cent of all
    >births are to foreign-born mothers. According to the Department for
    >Work and Pensions, an astonishing 61 per cent of Bangladeshis in
    >Britain are either unemployed or economically inactive, compared with
    >just 23 per cent of the White population, while 45 per cent of Africans
    >are unemployed. Overall, 41 per cent of ethnic minorities are without
    >jobs - hardly the dynamic contribution so often portrayed in state
    >propaganda.


    LOL! Asylum Seekers are not _allowed_ to work until they get
    permission to stay, which can take years. So it's not surprising
    there are high levels of immigrant unemployment. And in what way is
    that a meaningful response to what I said?

    >
    >According to the British Crime Survey, 31 per cent of all street
    >robberies in Britain are committed by criminals of African-Caribbean
    >origin, while at least 60 per cent of all muggings in London are
    >perpetrated by blacks.


    The greatest number of crimes will, clearly, be committed by the most
    economically disadvantaged people. How surprising. Plus the fact
    that 'mugging' is now a meaningless term since it's become used to
    cover everything from street robbery with violence to picking up
    something off the street.

    Our police force, is, of course, in no way racist themselves, nor are
    crime statistics derived mostly from reports by white people. And, of
    course, again, this is in no way whatsoever a response to what I said.

    >
    >This information means little to you, of course, because you're not
    >right in the head. To rational British people, nothing is more
    >important.


    This information means a great deal to me. I deduce from it that I'm
    talking to an irrational bigot. You still haven't revealed what
    qualifies someone who is probably of North American immigrant origin
    themselves to rave about imigration issues elesewhere, nor are you
    anywhere near responding to my points, and I doubt you will. Not
    rationally, anyway. Your rantings are beginning to get tedious.
    Beginning? Continuing to be would be much more appropriate.

    <yawn> Patrick

    <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
  32. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:38:04 GMT, patrickp <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk>
    wrote:

    >This information means a great deal to me. I deduce from it that I'm
    >talking to an irrational bigot. You still haven't revealed what
    >qualifies someone who is probably of North American immigrant origin
    >themselves to rave about imigration issues elesewhere, nor are you
    >anywhere near responding to my points, and I doubt you will. Not
    >rationally, anyway. Your rantings are beginning to get tedious.
    >Beginning? Continuing to be would be much more appropriate.

    Hold it - why do you think he's North American? The "vercingetorix"
    suggests to me he's possibly French... and in that case a le Pen
    supporter... or worse.:-) I think he should have been in Scotland this
    week - some nice policeman could have whacked him over the head and maybe
    straightened up that little thing rattling around in his head.

    --
    Rgds, George Macdonald
  33. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Robert Redelmeier wrote:
    > Interesting you should say that. Since the Meiji Restoration
    > (1856), they've been trying to learn from the West.
    > They don't like where they've been.
    >
    > -- Robert

    Acquisition of Western technologies implies nothing. The UN, and other
    international bodies, have recommended Japan destroy itself as Western
    Europe and America are, but Japan has steadfastly refused. Japan will
    remain Japanese.
  34. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:32:21 -0400, George Macdonald
    <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

    >On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:38:04 GMT, patrickp <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>This information means a great deal to me. I deduce from it that I'm
    >>talking to an irrational bigot. You still haven't revealed what
    >>qualifies someone who is probably of North American immigrant origin
    >>themselves to rave about imigration issues elesewhere, nor are you
    >>anywhere near responding to my points, and I doubt you will. Not
    >>rationally, anyway. Your rantings are beginning to get tedious.
    >>Beginning? Continuing to be would be much more appropriate.
    >
    >Hold it - why do you think he's North American? The "vercingetorix"
    >suggests to me he's possibly French... and in that case a le Pen
    >supporter... or worse.:-) I think he should have been in Scotland this
    >week - some nice policeman could have whacked him over the head and maybe
    >straightened up that little thing rattling around in his head.


    I don't necessarily think he's (?) North American, George. He/she/it
    simply displays such casual ignorance about life in the UK that I find
    it hard to believe they're European - most likely North American is my
    guess.

    Anyway, as Wes says, time to wrap this one up. It's going nowhere
    anyway.

    Patrick

    <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
  35. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    > Hold it - why do you think he's North American?

    A quick peek at headers seems indicate he's a Buckeye Cable
    customer out of Toledo, OH. Or relaying.

    > The "vercingetorix" suggests to me he's possibly French

    I thought so too.

    > ... and in that case a le Pen supporter... or worse.:-)

    I think it's ... worse.

    -- Robert
  36. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > The crux of the hostility on the part of others in this thread,
    > is that I'm hateful and wrong for believing diversity is folly.

    You are not hateful for your beliefs, however wrong they may be.
    You might be hateful for rudeness or sloppy logic.

    If you wish to argue against diversity, go ahead. It's
    refreshing to see [mostly] old white men argue in favor
    of it. You can hardly accuse anyone of self-serving bias!

    But please define your terms well: Forced inclusion
    of an underclass who are deprived of rights isn't
    diversity. It's apartheid, Hutu/Tutsi, slavery, etc.

    Diversity is more properly called Diversity & Inclusiveness.
    It recognizes all as equals in dignity & rights even if not in
    abilities and wealth. It works remarkably to the same extent it
    is thoroughly implemented (US, Canada, Singapore, Switzerland).

    > I believe that, and I quote, "A diverse, peaceful, or stable
    > society is against most historical precedent." (Dick Lamm;

    So is peace against historical precedent. That doesn't
    make it undesireable.

    > Upon examining history, one finds that so-called 'diverse'
    > societies are in ceaseless conflict, rarely stable, and
    > always unhappy.

    America? It has been about as diverse as Europe,
    and a lot more peaceful.

    > Japan, I believe, should be the model of the West.
    > For Japan has a past, a present, and a future.

    Interesting you should say that. Since the Meiji Restoration
    (1856), they've been trying to learn from the West.
    They don't like where they've been.

    -- Robert
  37. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Bitstring <p3Jze.1835$Ae.676@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, from the
    wonderful person Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> said
    >In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald
    ><fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    >> Hold it - why do you think he's North American?
    >
    >A quick peek at headers seems indicate he's a Buckeye Cable
    >customer out of Toledo, OH. Or relaying.

    Hm, I didn't think the KKK extended that far North .. maybe he's a
    recent immigrant (or maybe my USA geography/politics is as bad as
    his/its European geography/politics?)

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
  38. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > Acquisition of Western technologies implies nothing.

    It is far more that simply technology. Japan has chosen
    to acquire many business methods and even social norms.

    > The UN, and other international bodies, have recommended
    > Japan destroy itself as Western Europe and America are, but

    I don't have any idea of what you are referring to.

    > Japan has steadfastly refused. Japan will remain Japanese.

    Of course it will. Japan will only be changed by the
    Japanese. The same holds true for most countries.

    -- Robert
  39. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
    bunch.
  40. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:16:16 -0400, George Macdonald wrote:

    > Sorry but I disagree... strongly. Social engineering driven mostly by a
    > new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even, disseminated by
    > finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks is having a field day right now,
    > IMO. As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we didn't sign
    > up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because they are in general quite
    > cynical about their govts. and their policies, they're no "greener" than we
    > are really, yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker. It's just
    > what they heard on "the news".:-)
    >
    Now that I've removed the NG I read from this cross posted BS, you're all
    a bunch of off topic cross posting morons. Have a nice day.:-)

    --
    KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
    Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
    My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
    Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
  41. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (More info?)

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, aether wrote:

    > Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
    > bunch.

    And you're an idiot, so what else is new.
  42. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
    >bunch.

    According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
    to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.

    Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm agreeing with you, in particular WRT to
    your "solution". I tend to think the solution to the Islamic extremists is
    going to have to come from within Islam itself... with the support of the
    rest of the world.

    --
    Rgds, George Macdonald
  43. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    > new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even,
    > disseminated by finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks

    Rather obvious today versus 100 years ago.

    > As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we
    > didn't sign up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because
    > they are in general quite cynical about their govts. and
    > their policies, they're no "greener" than we are really,
    > yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker.

    No, Europeans have always been greener than Americans
    because they've had to be with their population density.
    Killer fogs and river pollution.

    > http://www.wehaitians.com/the%20philosopher%20of%20islamic%20terror.html
    > but I find it very convincing and alarming - it's long but
    > worth the read. In fact they "know" that they are "right"!

    Every extremist "knows" this. It is their hallmark.

    > That they are able to motivate their rabble to the point
    > of suicide speaks to their ability to control their "media".

    No, it speaks to desparation and/or careful filtration.

    > The actual results of the
    > "philosophy" are clearly spelled out here:
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/europe/26EURO.html?ex=1085976000&en=404ec182641192df&ei=5087&nl=ep

    Extremists might well strive, but it ain't gonna happen.
    Any govt needs at least the tacit cooperation of its subjects.
    Extremists can cause plenty of trouble, but cannot rule.

    -- Robert
  44. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:32:42 GMT, Robert Redelmeier
    <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:

    >In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    >> new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even,
    >> disseminated by finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks
    >
    >Rather obvious today versus 100 years ago.
    >
    >> As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we
    >> didn't sign up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because
    >> they are in general quite cynical about their govts. and
    >> their policies, they're no "greener" than we are really,
    >> yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker.
    >
    >No, Europeans have always been greener than Americans
    >because they've had to be with their population density.
    >Killer fogs and river pollution.

    I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90% of Americans live in
    an area of population density roughly the same as most Europeans. The fact
    that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S. which are unused/unusable
    doesn't really matter - major conurbations, where most jobs are
    concentrated, seem to reach about the same saturation point.

    It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission WRT *real*
    pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference was striking until ~10years
    ago. In the meantime, apart from the U.S.'s SUV abberation -- which they
    also have to a lesser extent -- American cars have become much smaller and
    efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars. I really don't see a lot of
    difference in their use of energy or attitude to energy efficiency,
    compared with the U.S. I visit regularly, have lived there and have
    relatives there -- I rarely stay in hotels so am quite well informed -- and
    apart from the same "greener than thou" bigots we have here, everybody
    drives a vehicle which is much bigger than needed for 90% of its usage.
    Hell they all have air-conditioners now, whether needed or not.

    Sorry but that's an old myth.

    >> http://www.wehaitians.com/the%20philosopher%20of%20islamic%20terror.html
    >> but I find it very convincing and alarming - it's long but
    >> worth the read. In fact they "know" that they are "right"!
    >
    >Every extremist "knows" this. It is their hallmark.

    I don't believe that those people, at the top of extremist Islam are in any
    way acting overtly cynically here. They really do believe it is their
    destiny to enforce Shariah upon the world... and that their religion's
    dogma demands it.

    >> That they are able to motivate their rabble to the point
    >> of suicide speaks to their ability to control their "media".
    >
    >No, it speaks to desparation and/or careful filtration.

    I wish it were so.<shrug>

    >> The actual results of the
    >> "philosophy" are clearly spelled out here:
    >> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/europe/26EURO.html?ex=1085976000&en=404ec182641192df&ei=5087&nl=ep
    >
    >Extremists might well strive, but it ain't gonna happen.
    >Any govt needs at least the tacit cooperation of its subjects.
    >Extremists can cause plenty of trouble, but cannot rule.

    It's the "trouble" which is indeed in plenty... and with no apparent
    solution in sight. What do you do with hoards of home-bred young adults
    indoctrinated in the violent overthrow of the regime where you "happily"
    pass your days? Put them in jail for sedition?... treason?... seems to be
    out of fashion right now... if you listen to the U.K political angle over
    the past few days. As I mentioned in another post, the solution would seem
    to have to come from within the Muslim community - now how to motivate
    them? Some profess outrage but but I haven't seen much action, or even
    rhetoric, yet.:-)

    Even the U.S. is full of resident Islamic terrorist sympathizers. I don't
    think I'm alone in having two local examples of people who, as it turned
    out, knew that 9/11 was going to happen in the week before?... maybe I *am*
    alone here??? Both were reported to the FBI BTW but no word was received
    back on what transpired from it obviously.... kinda worrying that... that
    they might not have been caught.

    --
    Rgds, George Macdonald
  45. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:30:35 -0400, George Macdonald
    <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

    >On 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >>Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
    >>bunch.

    >According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
    >to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.

    Given your observation on USENET norms, perhaps you, and all the other
    crossposting - off topic posters would like to move your particular
    brand of USENET terrorism to one of the many appropriate discussion
    groups.

    >Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm agreeing with you, in particular WRT to
    >your "solution". I tend to think the solution to the Islamic extremists is
    >going to have to come from within Islam itself... with the support of the
    >rest of the world.

    R'gards

    ¸ô¶ó
  46. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In article <khv6d1pf46mgtec2sgjdcfqc70kejkmjie@4ax.com>, George
    Macdonald says...

    > I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90% of Americans live in
    > an area of population density roughly the same as most Europeans. The fact
    > that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S. which are unused/unusable
    > doesn't really matter - major conurbations, where most jobs are
    > concentrated, seem to reach about the same saturation point.
    >
    Err, not by any means.

    > It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission WRT *real*
    > pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference was striking until ~10years
    > ago. In the meantime, apart from the U.S.'s SUV abberation -- which they
    > also have to a lesser extent -- American cars have become much smaller and
    > efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars.

    Wasn't the best seller in the US a Honda Accord either last year or the
    one before that?

    > I really don't see a lot of
    > difference in their use of energy or attitude to energy efficiency,
    > compared with the U.S.

    In the case of the Government of the respective countries, there is.
    The EU ones recognise the problem and are trying to tackle it. G.W.Bush
    says the scientists are wrong and he's not prepared to do anything
    which will cost US businesses money.


    --
    Conor

    -You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
    K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
  47. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    > I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90%
    > of Americans live in an area of population density roughly
    > the same as most Europeans.

    Please havea look at some of the fine population denity maps
    indexed by Google images.

    > The fact that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S.

    There are similar underpopulated areas of rural France & Spain.

    > which are unused/unusable doesn't really matter -
    > major conurbations, where most jobs are concentrated,
    > seem to reach about the same saturation point.

    Not quite. With the exception of Manhattan, European urban
    density is higher.

    > It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission
    > WRT *real* pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference

    Of course! They use far less gasoline per capita (shorter
    distances, higher density and narrow old roads forcing mass
    transit). They also don't have smog traps like the LA basin,
    and where they _do_ use cars, those cars are spread out (rural).

    > American cars have become much smaller and
    > efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars.

    On a model-by-model basis, sure. The technology is the same.
    But the fleets are vastly different corresponding to different
    transportation uses. It would be surprising if they were the
    same, with 4x the fuel price, narrower roads and difficult
    parking in Europe.

    > I really don't see a lot of difference in their use of energy
    > or attitude to energy efficiency, compared with the U.S

    Huh? GNP/energy is much lower. They routinely heat houses less.


    > I don't believe that those people, at the top of extremist
    > Islam are in any way acting overtly cynically here. They
    > really do believe it is their destiny to enforce Shariah
    > upon the world... and that their religion's dogma demands it.

    Yes it does, and I didn't say (or believe) the extremists
    are cynical at all. They believe. All extremists believe.

    > What do you do with hoards of home-bred young adults
    > indoctrinated in the violent overthrow of the regime where
    > you "happily" pass your days?

    Is don't see these hoards in the west, particularly not
    in the US. Sure there are some malcontents. But the vast
    majority of recent immigrants integrate well. There's a _far_
    bigger problem (population bomb) in many Muslim countries.
    There will be serious local unrest, and some will get exported.

    But as for the Islamic extremists, they are _far_ more threatened by
    us than we are by them. And not just militarily. The Disney-esque
    western pop culture is very seductive and presents a real challenge
    especially when modern technology bypasses censorship. Read Neal
    Stephenson's "Cryptonomicon" about McCoy AFB.

    -- Robert
  48. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    > Hmm, I thought you'd already replied to this post.

    Yes, but I thought of a side thread.

    > Not even Dresden, Hanover, Hamburg? Seems like they felt
    > pretty "upset" by the end of the proceedings.

    Certainly. But I was talking about the _start_ of war.

    > Well I hear that the mealy-mouthed Luxemburgers voted "yes"
    > but of course the French and Dutch both said "NO" - the Brit
    > govt. already knows the answer but doesn't want to hear it.:-)

    Sure. But more confirmation of "Volkkeit". People were
    afraid of losing "their group".

    > I don't think the European identity, nor conformance to such,
    > is as ingrained as you seem to think and it is certainly

    It is not Euro identity but much smaller groups, regional
    or national.

    > not uniquely German inspired

    No, it has been around a while. But the Nazis gave it
    a big boost that was never counteracted/undone because it's
    _far_ too useful a concept to those who wish to govern.

    -- Robert
  49. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:03:23 GMT, borolad@myowseintheboro.org wrote:

    >On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:30:35 -0400, George Macdonald
    ><fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
    >
    >>On 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>>Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
    >>>bunch.
    >
    >>According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
    >>to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.
    >
    >Given your observation on USENET norms, perhaps you, and all the other
    >crossposting - off topic posters would like to move your particular
    >brand of USENET terrorism to one of the many appropriate discussion
    >groups.

    You again... another self-appointed Usenet policeman? Look... threads
    drift off-topic all the time - it *is* normal. Learn to live with it. You
    have the option to ignore instead of wasting bandwidth with your whinging.

    --
    Rgds, George Macdonald
Ask a new question

Read More

CPUs Hardware IBM Socket Motherboards Compatibility Product