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Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (939) & Abit AN8 'Fatal1ty': Compatible?

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Anonymous
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June 30, 2005 9:05:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?

More about : athlon 4600 939 abit an8 fatal1ty compatible

Anonymous
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July 1, 2005 3:06:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
>know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?

From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
website:

"Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
Processors"

http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_...


-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
Anonymous
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July 1, 2005 3:06:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"Tony Hill" <hilla_nospam_20@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:soc9c1d9h2oqdnks46ujg9evh33d540naq@4ax.com...
> On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
>>know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
>
> From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
> website:
>
> "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
> Processors"
>
> http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_...
>
>
> -------------
> Tony Hill
> hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Me, I have this nazi fanboy killfiled. I wouldn't reply to him if he was
along side the road on fire.

del
Related resources
Anonymous
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July 1, 2005 4:01:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Tony Hill wrote:
> On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
> >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
>
> From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
> website:
>
> "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
> Processors"
>
> http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_...
>
>
> -------------
> Tony Hill
> hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Appreciate it, Tony. I'm fairly certain that a month ago the
specifications page didn't mention X2 dual-core. I didn't bother to
check it again, instead choosing to get an answer from 'live' people.

Cecchi - You're mindless garbage.
Anonymous
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July 1, 2005 5:28:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:
> On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
> >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
> >
>
> AN8 BIOS Version 1.5 supports dual-core (released 20-June-2005)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> With regard to the general issue of Socket-939 BIOS updates for X2,
> please note the following:-
>
> No mention of X2 in the BIOS update docs, then beware. Especially
> if you are contemplating a new purchase. Also, even if the BIOS is
> updated, remember it takes quite a while for the retail channel to be
> purged !!! Check with the supplier as to the BIOS version shipped
> in the board, if they know....( and their return-policy !!! )

Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?

>
> An X2 might just not work at all in a board which has not had its
> BIOS updated ( the BIOS docs are silent on this subject ).
> And if the board does not work at all, obviously you will not be
> able to read the BIOS version, to find out whether the BIOS
> might be the problem, or something else in a new installation is
> screwed up. Hence, a perfect Catch 22 - you may need to install
> a non-X2 just to check motherboard functionality and update the
> BIOS :-(. No problem for a small system-builder. A big problem
> for the do-it-yourself guy building a first-time Socket-939 X2 system.
>
> And of course, if you are upgrading an existing Socket-939
> board to X2, remember to update the BIOS to add X2-compatibility
> BEFORE removing the old processor..................
>
> John Lewis
>
> - Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.

Much appreciated, John.

By the way, here's some information on dual-core benchmarks:

"Benchmarks revealed significant performance gains for multithreaded
benchmarks, with Cinebench showing an 87% performance gain going from
one core to two. Interestingly enough, the dual-core Athlon 64
outperforms a true dual-CPU Opteron 250 2.4GHz setup, coming in second
only to a dual 3.6GHz Xeon setup with Hyper-Threading turned on (four
logical CPUs)."
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Mar/gee2005031402...
Anonymous
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July 1, 2005 9:03:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
>know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
>

AN8 BIOS Version 1.5 supports dual-core (released 20-June-2005)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With regard to the general issue of Socket-939 BIOS updates for X2,
please note the following:-

No mention of X2 in the BIOS update docs, then beware. Especially
if you are contemplating a new purchase. Also, even if the BIOS is
updated, remember it takes quite a while for the retail channel to be
purged !!! Check with the supplier as to the BIOS version shipped
in the board, if they know....( and their return-policy !!! )

An X2 might just not work at all in a board which has not had its
BIOS updated ( the BIOS docs are silent on this subject ).
And if the board does not work at all, obviously you will not be
able to read the BIOS version, to find out whether the BIOS
might be the problem, or something else in a new installation is
screwed up. Hence, a perfect Catch 22 - you may need to install
a non-X2 just to check motherboard functionality and update the
BIOS :-(. No problem for a small system-builder. A big problem
for the do-it-yourself guy building a first-time Socket-939 X2 system.

And of course, if you are upgrading an existing Socket-939
board to X2, remember to update the BIOS to add X2-compatibility
BEFORE removing the old processor..................

John Lewis

- Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
Anonymous
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July 2, 2005 1:39:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The BIOS for the dual-core is probably quite different
> from the regular 939 processor.

Why would you think this? From a software perspective,
there is almost no difference between dual core and SMP.

SMP BIOSes have been around forever, and aren't particularly
complex. One CPU is hardwired as the BSP (Boot Service
Processor) and runs all BIOS functions and uniproc OSes like
MS-DOC and MS-Windows9*.

It also loads SMP OSes which _then_ activate the other
processors via various IPIs.

> http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Mar/gee2005031402...
> for multithreaded benchmarks, with Cinebench showing
> an 87% performance gain going from one core to two.

Sounds like a fetch stalled app, governed by memory
latency.

> Interestingly enough, the dual-core Athlon 64
> outperforms a true dual-CPU Opteron 250 2.4GHz setup,

Yep. For sure. Dual core has only one memory
controller, so will be faster than bus arbitration.

> coming in second only to a dual 3.6GHz Xeon setup
> with Hyper-Threading turned on (four logical CPUs)."

That can have four outstanding fetches at once. Yawn.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 2, 2005 2:19:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:28:45 -0700, aether wrote:

> Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
> probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
> though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
> compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
> merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?
>
If your current bios supports the core of the X2 CPU you buy, but doen't
support dual core, it should boot only using one core. Then you can
upgrade the bios to get dual core support. OTOH, if your current bios
doesn't support a non dual cpu of the same core, you're screwed until you
upgrade the bios by some other means.

--
KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Anonymous
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July 2, 2005 7:47:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 1 Jul 2005 13:28:45 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>John Lewis wrote:
>> On 30 Jun 2005 17:05:59 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >The AN8 is, of course, also a Socket 939 based motherboard. Does anyone
>> >know the full extent of the AN8's upgrade capabilities?
>> >
>>
>> AN8 BIOS Version 1.5 supports dual-core (released 20-June-2005)
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> With regard to the general issue of Socket-939 BIOS updates for X2,
>> please note the following:-
>>
>> No mention of X2 in the BIOS update docs, then beware. Especially
>> if you are contemplating a new purchase. Also, even if the BIOS is
>> updated, remember it takes quite a while for the retail channel to be
>> purged !!! Check with the supplier as to the BIOS version shipped
>> in the board, if they know....( and their return-policy !!! )
>
>Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
>probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
>though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
>compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
>merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?
>

Of course.... all the upgrades do !! Cannot have a board shipping with
the latest BIOS not work for >95% of current purchasers - those who do

not choose to buy a X2, at least initially.

John Lewis

- Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
Anonymous
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July 2, 2005 7:53:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:19:43 GMT, Wes Newell
<w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:28:45 -0700, aether wrote:
>
>> Another reason I posted this thread. The BIOS for the dual-core is
>> probably quite different from the regular 939 processor. I wonder,
>> though, would the dual-core BIOS be completely different or have some
>> compatibility with the regular 939 processor which would allow me to
>> merely upgrade the BIOS first, then install the processor?
>>
>If your current bios supports the core of the X2 CPU you buy, but doen't
>support dual core, it should boot only using one core.

Likely, but no guarantee at all !!! If not confirmed in the BIOS docs,
you always have to assume that Murphy's Law applies.

> Then you can
>upgrade the bios to get dual core support.

>OTOH, if your current bios
>doesn't support a non dual cpu of the same core, you're screwed until you
>upgrade the bios by some other means.
>

If the BIOS has been upgraded to support X2, then it will always work
with a non-X2 A64. Otherwise, 2 different versions of a MB would have
to be shipped, the only difference being the BIOS - a non-starter.
Backward compatibility is guaranteed.

John Lewis
- Technology early-birds are flying guinea-pigs.
Anonymous
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July 3, 2005 11:07:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:21:09 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
<dcecchi.nospam@att.net> wrote:
>> From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
>> website:
>>
>> "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
>> Processors"
>>
>
>Me, I have this nazi fanboy killfiled. I wouldn't reply to him if he was
>along side the road on fire.
>

Hmm.. I didn't even notice it was the same moron. I just stopped
reading that thread as soon as he started pointing to Nazi Germany as
some sort of example of a "good" society. Clearly anyone who believes
such nonsense is well beyond the point of having a meaningful
conversation with.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca
Anonymous
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July 5, 2005 5:08:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:07:51 -0400, Tony Hill wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:21:09 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
> <dcecchi.nospam@att.net> wrote:
>>> From the very first line of Abit's specification page on their
>>> website:
>>>
>>> "Supports AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64/64FX & Athlon 64 X2 dual-core
>>> Processors"
>>>
>>
>>Me, I have this nazi fanboy killfiled. I wouldn't reply to him if he was
>>along side the road on fire.
>>
>
> Hmm.. I didn't even notice it was the same moron. I just stopped
> reading that thread as soon as he started pointing to Nazi Germany as
> some sort of example of a "good" society. Clearly anyone who believes
> such nonsense is well beyond the point of having a meaningful
> conversation with.
>
> -------------
> Tony Hill
> hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

Kinda of like calling Guantanamo a gulag! When this dude is running around
as president elect of Iran oh, the irony.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=w...

Its funny how much the media distorts things just to suite their agenda.

Gnu_Raiz
Anonymous
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July 6, 2005 8:35:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
irrelevancy.
Anonymous
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July 6, 2005 6:14:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

GSV Three Minds in a Can wrote:
> Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
> wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said
> Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
> Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
> to a nicer chap. 8>.
>
> --
> GSV Three Minds in a Can
> Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

The British, perhaps. Third world squatters couldn't care less about
Nelson -- and they are the future of Britain.
Anonymous
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July 6, 2005 6:52:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
> irrelevancy.
>

But not till after the 2012 Olympics.

--
Remove the dross to contact me directly
Anonymous
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July 6, 2005 8:47:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
> irrelevancy.
>
Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
July 6, 2005 8:47:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:47:50 +0000, Lee Waun wrote:

>
> "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
>> irrelevancy.
>>
> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.

At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)

--
Keith
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 12:58:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Nothing that the horrifically superficial and shortsighted Brits do
surprises me. They celebrate over the irrelevant 2012 Olympics while
the city it's to be played in, their capitol, is lost to them forever.

"London is the ideal place to study the economic and social impact of
Third World immigration into Britain. Not only does the capital contain
more than half of the total number of the UK's ethnic minorities, but
demographic studies have shown, that, given current immigration and
natural reproduction rates, Whites will be a minority in London by
2010."

(2) The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3,
2000, http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,0...

The fat traitor himself, Churchill, would vomit out of disgust if he
walked the streets of London today -- after being assaulted and mugged.
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 1:02:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said

>>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
>>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
>>> irrelevancy.
>>>
>> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
>
>At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
>though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)

And they won two world wars .. oh wait, they needed help, didn't they.
Lucky those English, Canadians, and Americans were around (Doesn't Oz
and NZ deserve a mention?)

Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
to a nicer chap. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 4:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:02:35 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:

>Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
>wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said
>
>>>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
>>>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
>>>> irrelevancy.
>>>>
>>> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
>>
>>At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
>>though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)
>
>And they won two world wars .. oh wait, they needed help, didn't they.
>Lucky those English, Canadians, and Americans were around (Doesn't Oz
>and NZ deserve a mention?)
>
>Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
>Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
>to a nicer chap. 8>.
>

Even more pi$$ed off now that London got the 2012 Olympics by 4 votes
over Paris.

John Lewis

>--
>GSV Three Minds in a Can
>Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
July 7, 2005 4:54:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:54:08 +0000, John Lewis wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:02:35 +0100, GSV Three Minds in a Can
> <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Bitstring <pan.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz>, from the
>>wonderful person keith <krw@att.bizzzz> said
>>
>>>>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
>>>>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
>>>>> irrelevancy.
>>>>>
>>>> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
>>>
>>>At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
>>>though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)
>>
>>And they won two world wars .. oh wait, they needed help, didn't they.
>>Lucky those English, Canadians, and Americans were around (Doesn't Oz
>>and NZ deserve a mention?)
>>
>>Chirac is probably still all p1$$ed off that we're still celebrating
>>Nelson chasing his fleet around and then defeating it. Couldn't happen
>>to a nicer chap. 8>.
>>
>
> Even more pi$$ed off now that London got the 2012 Olympics by 4 votes
> over Paris.

Two from the Finns, that Chirac dissed even over the Britts! Amazing
incompetence, though not at all surprising! Were there oil chits involved
in losing this one?

--
Keith
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 6:41:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

patrickp wrote:
That would appear to rate "aether," if he really
> believes what he quotes, as more gullible than a National Front moron,
> and that takes some doing! Apart from anything else, a very large
> component of immigration into this country now is actually white,
> mostly people from Eastern Europe.
>
> <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...

You're clearly deluding yourself. The information presented is drawn
from official government data, as assembled by the British Observer.
Whites in Britain will be a minority long before 2100, and I suspect
they're already as such in London. The non-White population in England
and Wales has grown by three per cent over the last decade alone to
nine per cent -- and that's the official government data. Real figures
are likely higher. In the UK as a whole, the population of non-Whites
far exceeds the population of the Republic of Ireland. Leicester, for
instance, is almost devoid of Whites in most areas. You're the moron,
bud.

The source of the data:

The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3, 2000,
http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,0...

More information I present which can't be countered:

'Whites are quitting cities' as immigrants move in: UK (note how 'The
Sun' took down the link to the article)
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=8...

Whites blessed by diversity and multiculturalism: (they're dead)
http://www.drypool.net/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=nfflist

In Holland, The Same Process Is Occurring
Dutch Emigrate as Muslims Immigrate
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=171...

Eventually, Britain must become Fascist in order to save itself. As
must all of Europe. Otherwise, get to know your local Mullah and learn
Arabic.
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 8:17:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

The funny thing about that last post of mine, is that it was made
before the bombs went off.

See what the combination of reason and data can bring about? A modern
day prophet.

Simpletons.
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 11:50:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 6 Jul 2005 20:58:55 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Nothing that the horrifically superficial and shortsighted Brits do
>surprises me. They celebrate over the irrelevant 2012 Olympics while
>the city it's to be played in, their capitol, is lost to them forever.
>
>"London is the ideal place to study the economic and social impact of
>Third World immigration into Britain. Not only does the capital contain
>more than half of the total number of the UK's ethnic minorities, but
>demographic studies have shown, that, given current immigration and
>natural reproduction rates, Whites will be a minority in London by
>2010."
>
>(2) The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3,
>2000, http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,0...
>
>The fat traitor himself, Churchill, would vomit out of disgust if he
>walked the streets of London today -- after being assaulted and mugged.


"Not only does the capital contain more than half of the total number
of the UK's ethnic minorities" simply points out how small the actual
immigrant population actually is in the UK.

In the early 80s, I lived just behind Railton Road in Brixton,
arguably the London area at the time with the densest black
population. Nevertheless, most of the the people living in that road
were white.

Since then, immigration _has_ increased and immigrant populations have
risen. They're still small, though, and as for whites being a
minority by 2010, that's laughable - not even a National Front moron
would believe it. That would appear to rate "aether," if he really
believes what he quotes, as more gullible than a National Front moron,
and that takes some doing! Apart from anything else, a very large
component of immigration into this country now is actually white,
mostly people from Eastern Europe.

<patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
July 7, 2005 3:02:05 PM

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"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.07.06.19.18.26.259877@att.bizzzz...
> On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:47:50 +0000, Lee Waun wrote:
>
>>
>> "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1120649719.541486.271710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>> Small-minded buffoons. In a way, it's somewhat delightful to see
>>> America, Canada, and Britain gradually vanish into international
>>> irrelevancy.
>>>
>> Sort of like France did 60 years ago.
>
> At least France won the recent Presidential hissy-fit and food-fight,
> though lost the '12 Olympics in the process. ;-)
>
Who set of the bombs in London?

Dave
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 9:56:15 PM

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On 7 Jul 2005 02:41:03 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>patrickp wrote:
>That would appear to rate "aether," if he really
>> believes what he quotes, as more gullible than a National Front moron,
>> and that takes some doing! Apart from anything else, a very large
>> component of immigration into this country now is actually white,
>> mostly people from Eastern Europe.
>>
>> <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
>
>You're clearly deluding yourself. The information presented is drawn
>from official government data, as assembled by the British Observer.
>Whites in Britain will be a minority long before 2100, and I suspect
>they're already as such in London. The non-White population in England
>and Wales has grown by three per cent over the last decade alone to
>nine per cent -- and that's the official government data. Real figures
>are likely higher. In the UK as a whole, the population of non-Whites
>far exceeds the population of the Republic of Ireland. Leicester, for
>instance, is almost devoid of Whites in most areas. You're the moron,
>bud.
>
>The source of the data:
>
>The Observer 'UK whites will be minority by 2100' September 3, 2000,
>http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,363750,0...
>
>More information I present which can't be countered:
>
>'Whites are quitting cities' as immigrants move in: UK (note how 'The
>Sun' took down the link to the article)
>http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=8...
>
>Whites blessed by diversity and multiculturalism: (they're dead)
>http://www.drypool.net/cgi-bin/system.pl?id=nfflist
>
>In Holland, The Same Process Is Occurring
>Dutch Emigrate as Muslims Immigrate
>http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=171...
>
>Eventually, Britain must become Fascist in order to save itself. As
>must all of Europe. Otherwise, get to know your local Mullah and learn
>Arabic.


2100? You said 2010. By 2100, it will be a pointless issue, as the
ethnicities of all the people coming into the country now will have
been thoroughly homogenised - you're talking 95 years!

And by 2010, your original figure - no chance! I notice you've
carefully removed the parts of your previous post and my reply where
we both used that figure. Get it right! And don't call others morons
without checking your own intelligence level - the comparison would
not seem to be in your favour.

Patrick

<patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
Anonymous
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July 7, 2005 11:13:29 PM

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>>>2100? You said 2010. By 2100, it will be a pointless issue, as the
ethnicities of all the people coming into the country now will have
been thoroughly homogenised - you're talking 95 years!<<<

Are you on any medications or do you generally not pay attention? The
2010 figure is for the city of London. The 2100 estimate is for the UK
in it's entirety. Personally, I think both figures are
underestimations. London is already a majority non-White city, and the
UK as a whole should be a majority non-White country within 35 years.
It's a matter of simple mathematics. The 'immigrants' and 'asylum
seekers' have tremendously high birthrates, and hundreds of thousands
more are joining them every year. Native Brits, on the other hand, have
birth rates below replacement level.
Anonymous
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July 8, 2005 7:49:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

>>>That's laughable. I live and work in SE London, one of the city areas
with the highest immigrant populations, and my job is with the
Greenwich LEA. Part of what I do is to administer school meals
centrally, which involves working with Asylum Seeker and ethnicity
figures for free school meals. And I can tell you - your ideas about
immigration in London are rubbish.

And as for your 2100 ideas - they're both rubbish and meaningless.
You clearly haven't stopped to consider the obvious: immimgrant
populations don't keep on being immigrants. They integrate into the
local population. In 95 years time, all the immigrant population of
today, and of the next 80 to 95 years, will have become British - and
that's even assuming that levels of immigration remain constant,
which, over a period of 95 years, is extraordinarily unlikely.<<<<

I almost feel for one deluded such as yourself. You live in a fantasy
world which exists only in your mind. Reality surrounds you, but you're
trapped in your own little world. It'd be a case study for mental
illness, if it weren't so common. In inner London, 55 per cent of all
births are to foreign-born mothers. According to the Department for
Work and Pensions, an astonishing 61 per cent of Bangladeshis in
Britain are either unemployed or economically inactive, compared with
just 23 per cent of the White population, while 45 per cent of Africans
are unemployed. Overall, 41 per cent of ethnic minorities are without
jobs - hardly the dynamic contribution so often portrayed in state
propaganda.

According to the British Crime Survey, 31 per cent of all street
robberies in Britain are committed by criminals of African-Caribbean
origin, while at least 60 per cent of all muggings in London are
perpetrated by blacks.

This information means little to you, of course, because you're not
right in the head. To rational British people, nothing is more
important.
Anonymous
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July 8, 2005 11:58:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 7 Jul 2005 19:13:29 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>>>>2100? You said 2010. By 2100, it will be a pointless issue, as the
>ethnicities of all the people coming into the country now will have
>been thoroughly homogenised - you're talking 95 years!<<<
>
>Are you on any medications or do you generally not pay attention? The
>2010 figure is for the city of London. The 2100 estimate is for the UK
>in it's entirety. Personally, I think both figures are
>underestimations. London is already a majority non-White city, and the
>UK as a whole should be a majority non-White country within 35 years.
>It's a matter of simple mathematics. The 'immigrants' and 'asylum
>seekers' have tremendously high birthrates, and hundreds of thousands
>more are joining them every year. Native Brits, on the other hand, have
>birth rates below replacement level.


That's laughable. I live and work in SE London, one of the city areas
with the highest immigrant populations, and my job is with the
Greenwich LEA. Part of what I do is to administer school meals
centrally, which involves working with Asylum Seeker and ethnicity
figures for free school meals. And I can tell you - your ideas about
immigration in London are rubbish.

And as for your 2100 ideas - they're both rubbish and meaningless.
You clearly haven't stopped to consider the obvious: immimgrant
populations don't keep on being immigrants. They integrate into the
local population. In 95 years time, all the immigrant population of
today, and of the next 80 to 95 years, will have become British - and
that's even assuming that levels of immigration remain constant,
which, over a period of 95 years, is extraordinarily unlikely.

And the other misapprehension you appear to be labouring under is that
immigration is necessarily a bad thing. By this standard, the makeup
of the present population of North America must horrify you - it's
almost entirely made up from immigrant populations from the last 500
years or so. Perhaps the Native American (I hope that's the correct
term - I'm not American) population might agree with you, but I doubt
that most of the people in North America would.

And, as for London already being a majority non-white city... that
shows where you're coming from - cloud cuckoo land! Even the local
National Front morons would laugh at you for that!

I notice you're careful not to make any declarations about who you are
or where you're from - a wise move for someone who posts as
ludicrously as you do - but I'm willing to bet it's nowhere near the
UK, or you'd know better. I'd guess North America, and you're one of
the majority immigrant population...

Patrick

<patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
Anonymous
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July 8, 2005 4:09:47 PM

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Bitstring <1120819750.703720.157690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, from
the bigottedl person aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> said
<snip>
>According to the British Crime Survey, 31 per cent of all street
>robberies in Britain are committed by criminals of African-Caribbean
>origin, while at least 60 per cent of all muggings in London are
>perpetrated by blacks.

Yeah well, once it was 60% of violent crimes are committed by Vikings,
and then it was 80% of property crimes were perpetrated by Normans. back
before then, the Dinosaurs thought they owned the country too. In the
future you'll discover that the AIs are pretty p!ssed off when the Post
Singularity CIs take over all the best hardware.

Grow up. Or better yet leave, we'd be well rid of you.
Oh yes, while I remember, <plonk>

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 12:03:10 AM

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The crux of the hostility on the part of others in this thread, is that
I'm hateful and wrong for believing diversity is folly.

I believe that, and I quote, "A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is
against most historical precedent." (Dick Lamm; former Governor of
Colorado)

Upon examining history, one finds that so-called 'diverse' societies
are in ceaseless conflict, rarely stable, and always unhappy.

Japan, I believe, should be the model of the West. For Japan has a
past, a present, and a future.
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 12:38:04 AM

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On 8 Jul 2005 03:49:10 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>>>>That's laughable. I live and work in SE London, one of the city areas
>with the highest immigrant populations, and my job is with the
>Greenwich LEA. Part of what I do is to administer school meals
>centrally, which involves working with Asylum Seeker and ethnicity
>figures for free school meals. And I can tell you - your ideas about
>immigration in London are rubbish.
>
>And as for your 2100 ideas - they're both rubbish and meaningless.
>You clearly haven't stopped to consider the obvious: immimgrant
>populations don't keep on being immigrants. They integrate into the
>local population. In 95 years time, all the immigrant population of
>today, and of the next 80 to 95 years, will have become British - and
>that's even assuming that levels of immigration remain constant,
>which, over a period of 95 years, is extraordinarily unlikely.<<<<
>
>I almost feel for one deluded such as yourself. You live in a fantasy
>world which exists only in your mind. Reality surrounds you, but you're
>trapped in your own little world. It'd be a case study for mental
>illness, if it weren't so common. In inner London, 55 per cent of all
>births are to foreign-born mothers. According to the Department for
>Work and Pensions, an astonishing 61 per cent of Bangladeshis in
>Britain are either unemployed or economically inactive, compared with
>just 23 per cent of the White population, while 45 per cent of Africans
>are unemployed. Overall, 41 per cent of ethnic minorities are without
>jobs - hardly the dynamic contribution so often portrayed in state
>propaganda.


LOL! Asylum Seekers are not _allowed_ to work until they get
permission to stay, which can take years. So it's not surprising
there are high levels of immigrant unemployment. And in what way is
that a meaningful response to what I said?

>
>According to the British Crime Survey, 31 per cent of all street
>robberies in Britain are committed by criminals of African-Caribbean
>origin, while at least 60 per cent of all muggings in London are
>perpetrated by blacks.


The greatest number of crimes will, clearly, be committed by the most
economically disadvantaged people. How surprising. Plus the fact
that 'mugging' is now a meaningless term since it's become used to
cover everything from street robbery with violence to picking up
something off the street.

Our police force, is, of course, in no way racist themselves, nor are
crime statistics derived mostly from reports by white people. And, of
course, again, this is in no way whatsoever a response to what I said.

>
>This information means little to you, of course, because you're not
>right in the head. To rational British people, nothing is more
>important.


This information means a great deal to me. I deduce from it that I'm
talking to an irrational bigot. You still haven't revealed what
qualifies someone who is probably of North American immigrant origin
themselves to rave about imigration issues elesewhere, nor are you
anywhere near responding to my points, and I doubt you will. Not
rationally, anyway. Your rantings are beginning to get tedious.
Beginning? Continuing to be would be much more appropriate.

<yawn> Patrick

<patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 12:38:05 AM

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On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:38:04 GMT, patrickp <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk>
wrote:

>This information means a great deal to me. I deduce from it that I'm
>talking to an irrational bigot. You still haven't revealed what
>qualifies someone who is probably of North American immigrant origin
>themselves to rave about imigration issues elesewhere, nor are you
>anywhere near responding to my points, and I doubt you will. Not
>rationally, anyway. Your rantings are beginning to get tedious.
>Beginning? Continuing to be would be much more appropriate.

Hold it - why do you think he's North American? The "vercingetorix"
suggests to me he's possibly French... and in that case a le Pen
supporter... or worse.:-) I think he should have been in Scotland this
week - some nice policeman could have whacked him over the head and maybe
straightened up that little thing rattling around in his head.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 3:13:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> Interesting you should say that. Since the Meiji Restoration
> (1856), they've been trying to learn from the West.
> They don't like where they've been.
>
> -- Robert

Acquisition of Western technologies implies nothing. The UN, and other
international bodies, have recommended Japan destroy itself as Western
Europe and America are, but Japan has steadfastly refused. Japan will
remain Japanese.
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 4:23:16 AM

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On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:32:21 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:38:04 GMT, patrickp <patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>This information means a great deal to me. I deduce from it that I'm
>>talking to an irrational bigot. You still haven't revealed what
>>qualifies someone who is probably of North American immigrant origin
>>themselves to rave about imigration issues elesewhere, nor are you
>>anywhere near responding to my points, and I doubt you will. Not
>>rationally, anyway. Your rantings are beginning to get tedious.
>>Beginning? Continuing to be would be much more appropriate.
>
>Hold it - why do you think he's North American? The "vercingetorix"
>suggests to me he's possibly French... and in that case a le Pen
>supporter... or worse.:-) I think he should have been in Scotland this
>week - some nice policeman could have whacked him over the head and maybe
>straightened up that little thing rattling around in his head.


I don't necessarily think he's (?) North American, George. He/she/it
simply displays such casual ignorance about life in the UK that I find
it hard to believe they're European - most likely North American is my
guess.

Anyway, as Wes says, time to wrap this one up. It's going nowhere
anyway.

Patrick

<patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk> - take five to email me...
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 9:15:01 AM

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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> Hold it - why do you think he's North American?

A quick peek at headers seems indicate he's a Buckeye Cable
customer out of Toledo, OH. Or relaying.

> The "vercingetorix" suggests to me he's possibly French

I thought so too.

> ... and in that case a le Pen supporter... or worse.:-)

I think it's ... worse.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 9:31:48 AM

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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The crux of the hostility on the part of others in this thread,
> is that I'm hateful and wrong for believing diversity is folly.

You are not hateful for your beliefs, however wrong they may be.
You might be hateful for rudeness or sloppy logic.

If you wish to argue against diversity, go ahead. It's
refreshing to see [mostly] old white men argue in favor
of it. You can hardly accuse anyone of self-serving bias!

But please define your terms well: Forced inclusion
of an underclass who are deprived of rights isn't
diversity. It's apartheid, Hutu/Tutsi, slavery, etc.

Diversity is more properly called Diversity & Inclusiveness.
It recognizes all as equals in dignity & rights even if not in
abilities and wealth. It works remarkably to the same extent it
is thoroughly implemented (US, Canada, Singapore, Switzerland).

> I believe that, and I quote, "A diverse, peaceful, or stable
> society is against most historical precedent." (Dick Lamm;

So is peace against historical precedent. That doesn't
make it undesireable.

> Upon examining history, one finds that so-called 'diverse'
> societies are in ceaseless conflict, rarely stable, and
> always unhappy.

America? It has been about as diverse as Europe,
and a lot more peaceful.

> Japan, I believe, should be the model of the West.
> For Japan has a past, a present, and a future.

Interesting you should say that. Since the Meiji Restoration
(1856), they've been trying to learn from the West.
They don't like where they've been.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 1:36:27 PM

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Bitstring <p3Jze.1835$Ae.676@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, from the
wonderful person Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> said
>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald
><fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>> Hold it - why do you think he's North American?
>
>A quick peek at headers seems indicate he's a Buckeye Cable
>customer out of Toledo, OH. Or relaying.

Hm, I didn't think the KKK extended that far North .. maybe he's a
recent immigrant (or maybe my USA geography/politics is as bad as
his/its European geography/politics?)

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
Anonymous
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July 9, 2005 7:47:55 PM

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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips aether <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Acquisition of Western technologies implies nothing.

It is far more that simply technology. Japan has chosen
to acquire many business methods and even social norms.

> The UN, and other international bodies, have recommended
> Japan destroy itself as Western Europe and America are, but

I don't have any idea of what you are referring to.

> Japan has steadfastly refused. Japan will remain Japanese.

Of course it will. Japan will only be changed by the
Japanese. The same holds true for most countries.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 11, 2005 7:37:49 AM

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Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
bunch.
Anonymous
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July 11, 2005 9:14:08 PM

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On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:16:16 -0400, George Macdonald wrote:

> Sorry but I disagree... strongly. Social engineering driven mostly by a
> new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even, disseminated by
> finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks is having a field day right now,
> IMO. As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we didn't sign
> up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because they are in general quite
> cynical about their govts. and their policies, they're no "greener" than we
> are really, yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker. It's just
> what they heard on "the news".:-)
>
Now that I've removed the NG I read from this cross posted BS, you're all
a bunch of off topic cross posting morons. Have a nice day.:-)

--
KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Anonymous
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July 11, 2005 9:15:17 PM

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On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, aether wrote:

> Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
> bunch.

And you're an idiot, so what else is new.
Anonymous
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July 11, 2005 11:30:35 PM

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On 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
>bunch.

According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.

Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm agreeing with you, in particular WRT to
your "solution". I tend to think the solution to the Islamic extremists is
going to have to come from within Islam itself... with the support of the
rest of the world.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
Anonymous
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July 12, 2005 4:32:42 AM

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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even,
> disseminated by finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks

Rather obvious today versus 100 years ago.

> As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we
> didn't sign up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because
> they are in general quite cynical about their govts. and
> their policies, they're no "greener" than we are really,
> yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker.

No, Europeans have always been greener than Americans
because they've had to be with their population density.
Killer fogs and river pollution.

> http://www.wehaitians.com/the%20philosopher%20of%20isla...
> but I find it very convincing and alarming - it's long but
> worth the read. In fact they "know" that they are "right"!

Every extremist "knows" this. It is their hallmark.

> That they are able to motivate their rabble to the point
> of suicide speaks to their ability to control their "media".

No, it speaks to desparation and/or careful filtration.

> The actual results of the
> "philosophy" are clearly spelled out here:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/europe/...

Extremists might well strive, but it ain't gonna happen.
Any govt needs at least the tacit cooperation of its subjects.
Extremists can cause plenty of trouble, but cannot rule.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 12, 2005 8:29:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:32:42 GMT, Robert Redelmeier
<redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:

>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>> new age of bigotry, based on misinfo, downright lies even,
>> disseminated by finger-wagging, head-nodding media hacks
>
>Rather obvious today versus 100 years ago.
>
>> As an example, the Euros are all pissed at us because we
>> didn't sign up for the Kyoto fraud. S'funny really because
>> they are in general quite cynical about their govts. and
>> their policies, they're no "greener" than we are really,
>> yet they swallowed that one hook line 'n' sinker.
>
>No, Europeans have always been greener than Americans
>because they've had to be with their population density.
>Killer fogs and river pollution.

I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90% of Americans live in
an area of population density roughly the same as most Europeans. The fact
that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S. which are unused/unusable
doesn't really matter - major conurbations, where most jobs are
concentrated, seem to reach about the same saturation point.

It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission WRT *real*
pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference was striking until ~10years
ago. In the meantime, apart from the U.S.'s SUV abberation -- which they
also have to a lesser extent -- American cars have become much smaller and
efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars. I really don't see a lot of
difference in their use of energy or attitude to energy efficiency,
compared with the U.S. I visit regularly, have lived there and have
relatives there -- I rarely stay in hotels so am quite well informed -- and
apart from the same "greener than thou" bigots we have here, everybody
drives a vehicle which is much bigger than needed for 90% of its usage.
Hell they all have air-conditioners now, whether needed or not.

Sorry but that's an old myth.

>> http://www.wehaitians.com/the%20philosopher%20of%20isla...
>> but I find it very convincing and alarming - it's long but
>> worth the read. In fact they "know" that they are "right"!
>
>Every extremist "knows" this. It is their hallmark.

I don't believe that those people, at the top of extremist Islam are in any
way acting overtly cynically here. They really do believe it is their
destiny to enforce Shariah upon the world... and that their religion's
dogma demands it.

>> That they are able to motivate their rabble to the point
>> of suicide speaks to their ability to control their "media".
>
>No, it speaks to desparation and/or careful filtration.

I wish it were so.<shrug>

>> The actual results of the
>> "philosophy" are clearly spelled out here:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/europe/...
>
>Extremists might well strive, but it ain't gonna happen.
>Any govt needs at least the tacit cooperation of its subjects.
>Extremists can cause plenty of trouble, but cannot rule.

It's the "trouble" which is indeed in plenty... and with no apparent
solution in sight. What do you do with hoards of home-bred young adults
indoctrinated in the violent overthrow of the regime where you "happily"
pass your days? Put them in jail for sedition?... treason?... seems to be
out of fashion right now... if you listen to the U.K political angle over
the past few days. As I mentioned in another post, the solution would seem
to have to come from within the Muslim community - now how to motivate
them? Some profess outrage but but I haven't seen much action, or even
rhetoric, yet.:-)

Even the U.S. is full of resident Islamic terrorist sympathizers. I don't
think I'm alone in having two local examples of people who, as it turned
out, knew that 9/11 was going to happen in the week before?... maybe I *am*
alone here??? Both were reported to the FBI BTW but no word was received
back on what transpired from it obviously.... kinda worrying that... that
they might not have been caught.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
Anonymous
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July 12, 2005 10:03:23 AM

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On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:30:35 -0400, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:

>On 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
>>bunch.

>According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
>to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.

Given your observation on USENET norms, perhaps you, and all the other
crossposting - off topic posters would like to move your particular
brand of USENET terrorism to one of the many appropriate discussion
groups.

>Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm agreeing with you, in particular WRT to
>your "solution". I tend to think the solution to the Islamic extremists is
>going to have to come from within Islam itself... with the support of the
>rest of the world.

R'gards

¸ô¶ó
Anonymous
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July 12, 2005 4:09:03 PM

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In article <khv6d1pf46mgtec2sgjdcfqc70kejkmjie@4ax.com>, George
Macdonald says...

> I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90% of Americans live in
> an area of population density roughly the same as most Europeans. The fact
> that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S. which are unused/unusable
> doesn't really matter - major conurbations, where most jobs are
> concentrated, seem to reach about the same saturation point.
>
Err, not by any means.

> It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission WRT *real*
> pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference was striking until ~10years
> ago. In the meantime, apart from the U.S.'s SUV abberation -- which they
> also have to a lesser extent -- American cars have become much smaller and
> efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars.

Wasn't the best seller in the US a Honda Accord either last year or the
one before that?

> I really don't see a lot of
> difference in their use of energy or attitude to energy efficiency,
> compared with the U.S.

In the case of the Government of the respective countries, there is.
The EU ones recognise the problem and are trying to tackle it. G.W.Bush
says the scientists are wrong and he's not prepared to do anything
which will cost US businesses money.


--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
Anonymous
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July 12, 2005 4:28:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> I don't have any numbers on this but I'd figure 80-90%
> of Americans live in an area of population density roughly
> the same as most Europeans.

Please havea look at some of the fine population denity maps
indexed by Google images.

> The fact that there are vast swaths of land in the U.S.

There are similar underpopulated areas of rural France & Spain.

> which are unused/unusable doesn't really matter -
> major conurbations, where most jobs are concentrated,
> seem to reach about the same saturation point.

Not quite. With the exception of Manhattan, European urban
density is higher.

> It took them ~20years to catch up with us on exhaust emission
> WRT *real* pollutants, like HCs, CO, NOx - the difference

Of course! They use far less gasoline per capita (shorter
distances, higher density and narrow old roads forcing mass
transit). They also don't have smog traps like the LA basin,
and where they _do_ use cars, those cars are spread out (rural).

> American cars have become much smaller and
> efficient - more on a par with Euro-cars.

On a model-by-model basis, sure. The technology is the same.
But the fleets are vastly different corresponding to different
transportation uses. It would be surprising if they were the
same, with 4x the fuel price, narrower roads and difficult
parking in Europe.

> I really don't see a lot of difference in their use of energy
> or attitude to energy efficiency, compared with the U.S

Huh? GNP/energy is much lower. They routinely heat houses less.


> I don't believe that those people, at the top of extremist
> Islam are in any way acting overtly cynically here. They
> really do believe it is their destiny to enforce Shariah
> upon the world... and that their religion's dogma demands it.

Yes it does, and I didn't say (or believe) the extremists
are cynical at all. They believe. All extremists believe.

> What do you do with hoards of home-bred young adults
> indoctrinated in the violent overthrow of the regime where
> you "happily" pass your days?

Is don't see these hoards in the west, particularly not
in the US. Sure there are some malcontents. But the vast
majority of recent immigrants integrate well. There's a _far_
bigger problem (population bomb) in many Muslim countries.
There will be serious local unrest, and some will get exported.

But as for the Islamic extremists, they are _far_ more threatened by
us than we are by them. And not just militarily. The Disney-esque
western pop culture is very seductive and presents a real challenge
especially when modern technology bypasses censorship. Read Neal
Stephenson's "Cryptonomicon" about McCoy AFB.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 12, 2005 4:36:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
> Hmm, I thought you'd already replied to this post.

Yes, but I thought of a side thread.

> Not even Dresden, Hanover, Hamburg? Seems like they felt
> pretty "upset" by the end of the proceedings.

Certainly. But I was talking about the _start_ of war.

> Well I hear that the mealy-mouthed Luxemburgers voted "yes"
> but of course the French and Dutch both said "NO" - the Brit
> govt. already knows the answer but doesn't want to hear it.:-)

Sure. But more confirmation of "Volkkeit". People were
afraid of losing "their group".

> I don't think the European identity, nor conformance to such,
> is as ingrained as you seem to think and it is certainly

It is not Euro identity but much smaller groups, regional
or national.

> not uniquely German inspired

No, it has been around a while. But the Nazis gave it
a big boost that was never counteracted/undone because it's
_far_ too useful a concept to those who wish to govern.

-- Robert
Anonymous
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July 13, 2005 12:14:49 AM

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On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 06:03:23 GMT, borolad@myowseintheboro.org wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:30:35 -0400, George Macdonald
><fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11 Jul 2005 03:37:49 -0700, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>Collectively, Westerners (i.e. Whites) are quite the self-destructive
>>>bunch.
>
>>According to the headers, this was a reply to me - you might try to conform
>>to Usenet norms and quote at least a piece of the post you are replying to.
>
>Given your observation on USENET norms, perhaps you, and all the other
>crossposting - off topic posters would like to move your particular
>brand of USENET terrorism to one of the many appropriate discussion
>groups.

You again... another self-appointed Usenet policeman? Look... threads
drift off-topic all the time - it *is* normal. Learn to live with it. You
have the option to ignore instead of wasting bandwidth with your whinging.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald
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