9800pro 128bit: Sapphire will replace with 256bit card !

[rms]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

Anyone who's bought a 128bit card can get a 256bit one for $25:

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html

rms

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote:

>http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html

Wow. That's just not right. There goes any chance of my ever buying
a card from Sapphire.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

rms wrote:
> Anyone who's bought a 128bit card can get a 256bit one for $25:

Is there an easy way of telling whether a card is 128-bit or 256-bit?

I recently (a few weeks ago) bought a Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Atlantis, and
there's no mention at all on the box as to whether it's the 128- or 256-bit
version.

--

Adam.
www.adamdawes.com

 

[augustus]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

"Adam Dawes" <adam@adamdawesnospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:SECAc.145$in5.124@newsfe1-win...
> rms wrote:
> > Anyone who's bought a 128bit card can get a 256bit one for $25:
>
> Is there an easy way of telling whether a card is 128-bit or 256-bit?
>
> I recently (a few weeks ago) bought a Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Atlantis,
and
> there's no mention at all on the box as to whether it's the 128- or
256-bit
> version.
>
Download Everest....it'll tell you. This is the rebranded AIDA32 program

http://www.lavalys.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

Augustus wrote:
> Download Everest....it'll tell you. This is the rebranded AIDA32
> program. http://www.lavalys.com/

Ah -- Memory Bus Properties / Bus Width: 256-bit. Phew.

Thanks for that, looks like a most useful program.

--

Adam.
www.adamdawes.com

 

[Jones]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:44:33 +0100, "Adam Dawes"
<adam@adamdawesnospamplease.com> wrote:

>Augustus wrote:
>> Download Everest....it'll tell you. This is the rebranded AIDA32
>> program. http://www.lavalys.com/
>
>Ah -- Memory Bus Properties / Bus Width: 256-bit. Phew.
>
>Thanks for that, looks like a most useful program.

Yeah, I just tried everest recently and it's pretty good.

Not too cluttered like some

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

<snip>
> > > Anyone who's bought a 128bit card can get a 256bit one for $25:
> >
> > Is there an easy way of telling whether a card is 128-bit or 256-bit?
> >
> > I recently (a few weeks ago) bought a Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Atlantis,
> and
> > there's no mention at all on the box as to whether it's the 128- or
> 256-bit
> > version.
> >
> Download Everest....it'll tell you. This is the rebranded AIDA32 program
>
> http://www.lavalys.com/
>
>
Another thank you. I bought a Sapphire Radeon Pro Atlantis a few months
ago. Performance, price paid and online vendor used had me pretty
convinced that I didn't have the 128 bit. But now I know for certain that I
have a 256-bit card!

Bus type: DDR
Bus width: 256-bit
Real clock: 338 MHZ (DDR)
Effective clock: 676
Bandwidth: 21632

This is my first ATI board, ever, after many Nvidia and prior to that,
Matrox boards. Getting "tricked" after all my research and newsgroup
lurking would have killed my ego.

Carl

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

> >
> >
> Another thank you. I bought a Sapphire Radeon Pro Atlantis a few months
> ago. Performance, price paid and online vendor used had me pretty
> convinced that I didn't have the 128 bit. But now I know for certain that I
> have a 256-bit card!
>
> Bus type: DDR
> Bus width: 256-bit
> Real clock: 338 MHZ (DDR)
> Effective clock: 676
> Bandwidth: 21632
>
> This is my first ATI board, ever, after many Nvidia and prior to that,
> Matrox boards. Getting "tricked" after all my research and newsgroup
> lurking would have killed my ego.
>
> Carl

Great card not, very powerfull little card ... Farcry loves it ( and
still brings it to it's knees! )

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

chrisv wrote:
> "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote:
>
>> http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html
>
> Wow. That's just not right. There goes any chance of my ever buying
> a card from Sapphire.

So they made a marketing mistake, exhanging the card, used or otherwise for
a replacement 256bit version for a reasonable $25 fee puts them towards the
top of my list in terms of reputable people to deal with.

Their response could have been "screw you".

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

 

[null]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:17:25 +0100, "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com>
wrote:

:>chrisv wrote:
:>> "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote:
:>>
:>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html
:>>
:>> Wow. That's just not right. There goes any chance of my ever buying
:>> a card from Sapphire.
:>
:>So they made a marketing mistake, exhanging the card, used or otherwise for
:>a replacement 256bit version for a reasonable $25 fee puts them towards the
:>top of my list in terms of reputable people to deal with.
:>
:>Their response could have been "screw you".
:>
:>Ben


What is interesting is that a few weeks ago a co-worker was looking to
buy a 9800 Pro. We went to Newegg's site and they had both Sapphire
cards with a price difference of more than $25.00 (around $40-$50
IIRC). The descriptions clearly stated that the cheaper card had the
128bit bus and the more expensive one had the 256bit bus. I don't
know if any other retailers had them listed that way or not but it was
very clear on Newegg's site what the reason was for the price
difference.

I told him to spend the extra bucks which is what he did. When he
received the card he noted that the GPU fan had an ATI sticker on it
instead of a Sapphire one. We compared the part number sticker with
the one on my retail ATI 9800 Pro purchased a few months ago and found
they were identical. So what he actually got was an "ATI Built" card
for the price of an "ATI Powered" card. He didn't get the fancy
retail package like I did and his driver disc said Sapphire instead of
ATI like mine did. He wasn't upset at all.

BTW, the same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. I bought a
Sapphire 9700 Pro that turned out to be an "ATI Built" card. When the
card failed at about a year and half old ATI replaced it under
warranty and even shipped the replacement to me on a Friday with
Saturday overnight shipping.

Me/2

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in <ZwBAc.429$901.69
@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>:

>Anyone who's bought a 128bit card can get a 256bit one for $25:
>
>http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html
>
>rms
>
>

The 128 bits version are only out for..about 2 months and thus if you bought
your card earlier it SHOULD be 256-bits..of course..checking it cannot hurt


And having a 256bits memory bus indeed does allot for the speeds, it allows
you to up the anti aliasing and alike quite much higher. ( the bottleneck
point between the 9500 Pro and the 9700 Non Pro is..basicly only the memory
bus! )

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

null@127.0.0.1 wrote in <jsb7d05b4nmvmvfj059oc0a17pjts0cgbk@4ax.com>:

>
>

Sapphire builds most ATI cards....

And most compagny's are only re-labelers....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Dark Avenger" <no_spam@spamnet.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns950DA0381C142swampy314@62.251.0.70...
> null@127.0.0.1 wrote in <jsb7d05b4nmvmvfj059oc0a17pjts0cgbk@4ax.com>:
>
> Sapphire builds most ATI cards....
>
> And most compagny's are only re-labelers....

You are absolutely correct....I am presently sitting here with a Sapphire
128 MB 9800 pro and a 'made by ATI' 9800 pro...the only difference (after
examing them with a magnifying glass no less) is a tiny ATI sticker affixed
to the backside. Everything else appears to be 100% identical.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

"Dark Avenger" <no_spam@spamnet.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns950D9FFBEF93Dswampy314@62.251.0.70...
> "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in <ZwBAc.429$901.69
> @newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>:
>
>
> The 128 bits version are only out for..about 2 months and thus if you
bought
> your card earlier it SHOULD be 256-bits..of course..checking it cannot
hurt

I had the opportunity to see one of the Sapphire, fraudulently labeled, 9800
pro cards last night. About 2 months ago I was briefly in possession of a
Sapphire 9800 SE card. These cards would appear to be one and the same. The
pcb is the same, with the straight line memory layout, and the heatsink/fan
was identical. It is pretty clear to me that some marketing moron decided
the 9800 SE models would sell much better if they were renamed '9800 pro'.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I think the only mistake they made was selling the 128s direct to the general public. They *all*
tend to sell cut down cards to PC builders all the time, so Dell et al can slap 'contains ATI 9800
Pro' on the advert. Yet another reason to roll your own if you want a Pc that can play games rather
than a word processor.

S


Dark Avenger wrote:
> null@127.0.0.1 wrote in <jsb7d05b4nmvmvfj059oc0a17pjts0cgbk@4ax.com>:
>
>>
>>
>
> Sapphire builds most ATI cards....
>
> And most compagny's are only re-labelers....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Sham B" <shamb@easynet.co.ukNOSP> wrote in message news:<40d44e48$0$11400$afc38c87@auth.uk.news.easynet.net>...
> I think the only mistake they made was selling the 128s direct to the general public. They *all*
> tend to sell cut down cards to PC builders all the time, so Dell et al can slap 'contains ATI 9800
> Pro' on the advert. Yet another reason to roll your own if you want a Pc that can play games rather
> than a word processor.
>

Well, yes..sapphire should call their 9800 Pro chip on 128bits memory
pad different, calling it 9800 Atlantis still doesn't serve its right
...because the 9800 NP has a 256bits memory bus.

And yes, if you want a good pc... build it yourself. I bougth this pc,
knowing every piece and what to expect.... and replaced parts of it
once in a while... a dream to work with..

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:38:53 GMT, "mudz" <mudz@hotmail.com> wrote:


>"Dark Avenger" <no_spam@spamnet.nl> wrote in message
>news:Xns950D9FFBEF93Dswampy314@62.251.0.70...
>> "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in <ZwBAc.429$901.69
>> @newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>:

>> The 128 bits version are only out for..about 2 months and thus if you
>bought
>> your card earlier it SHOULD be 256-bits..of course..checking it cannot
>hurt

>I had the opportunity to see one of the Sapphire, fraudulently labeled, 9800
>pro cards last night. About 2 months ago I was briefly in possession of a
>Sapphire 9800 SE card. These cards would appear to be one and the same. The
>pcb is the same, with the straight line memory layout, and the heatsink/fan
>was identical. It is pretty clear to me that some marketing moron decided
>the 9800 SE models would sell much better if they were renamed '9800 pro'.

Not a moron as such, most, but not all 9800SE were ' softmoddable ' to
9800Pro, if you have one mode it here :

http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/
BoroLad

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

<borolad@myowseintheboro.org> wrote in message
>
> Not a moron as such, most, but not all 9800SE were ' softmoddable ' to
> 9800Pro, if you have one mode it here :

You are a very forgiving soul...I thought 'moron' was an apt, while still
polite, description. Maybe you'd feel differently if you had purchased one
of these renamed cards. While *some* 9800SE cards could be improved by soft
modding...that remains an iffy solution at best. If you are happy with that
approach, then good for you. When someone, or some company, decides to take
a product that specs out one way...(and THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SELLING that
way)....and they then decide to give this very item a different name, to
make people think they are buying a superior model...then those people are
'morons'...Wait!...you might be right when you say that person is "not a
moron as such...". That person is a thief, a cheat, a fraud artist...much
more appropriate terms! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways...what
could I have been thinking?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

ATI shipped you a replacement fan? They wanted me to send
them the card for a fan replacement. Screw that, I went and bought
a third party heatsink/fan combo instad.

--


Rob

<null@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:jsb7d05b4nmvmvfj059oc0a17pjts0cgbk@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:17:25 +0100, "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> :>chrisv wrote:
> :>> "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote:
> :>>
> :>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html
> :>>
> :>> Wow. That's just not right. There goes any chance of my ever buying
> :>> a card from Sapphire.
> :>
> :>So they made a marketing mistake, exhanging the card, used or otherwise
for
> :>a replacement 256bit version for a reasonable $25 fee puts them towards
the
> :>top of my list in terms of reputable people to deal with.
> :>
> :>Their response could have been "screw you".
> :>
> :>Ben
>
>
> What is interesting is that a few weeks ago a co-worker was looking to
> buy a 9800 Pro. We went to Newegg's site and they had both Sapphire
> cards with a price difference of more than $25.00 (around $40-$50
> IIRC). The descriptions clearly stated that the cheaper card had the
> 128bit bus and the more expensive one had the 256bit bus. I don't
> know if any other retailers had them listed that way or not but it was
> very clear on Newegg's site what the reason was for the price
> difference.
>
> I told him to spend the extra bucks which is what he did. When he
> received the card he noted that the GPU fan had an ATI sticker on it
> instead of a Sapphire one. We compared the part number sticker with
> the one on my retail ATI 9800 Pro purchased a few months ago and found
> they were identical. So what he actually got was an "ATI Built" card
> for the price of an "ATI Powered" card. He didn't get the fancy
> retail package like I did and his driver disc said Sapphire instead of
> ATI like mine did. He wasn't upset at all.
>
> BTW, the same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. I bought a
> Sapphire 9700 Pro that turned out to be an "ATI Built" card. When the
> card failed at about a year and half old ATI replaced it under
> warranty and even shipped the replacement to me on a Friday with
> Saturday overnight shipping.
>
> Me/2

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:08:10 GMT, "mudz" <mudz@hotmail.com> wrote:

><borolad@myowseintheboro.org> wrote in message

>> Not a moron as such, most, but not all 9800SE were ' softmoddable ' to
>> 9800Pro, if you have one mode it here :
>
>You are a very forgiving soul...I thought 'moron' was an apt, while still
>polite, description. Maybe you'd feel differently if you had purchased one
>of these renamed cards. While *some* 9800SE cards could be improved by soft
>modding...that remains an iffy solution at best. If you are happy with that
>approach, then good for you. When someone, or some company, decides to take
>a product that specs out one way...(and THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SELLING that
>way)....and they then decide to give this very item a different name, to
>make people think they are buying a superior model...then those people are
>'morons'...Wait!...you might be right when you say that person is "not a
>moron as such...". That person is a thief, a cheat, a fraud artist...much
>more appropriate terms! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways...what
>could I have been thinking?

Maybe I misunderstood, did you pay SE price for an SE masquerading as
a 9800pro or the full whack [ non SE full 9800pro ] price ; or;

Was the card a re-marked chipset ?
BoroLad

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

Yah, it's kinda remincent of the first Honda Interceptor motorcycle a couple
decades ago. There was a problem with the oil journals being misaligned and
subsequent oil starvation and premature wearout of the camshafts. Honda
extended their warrenty past the expiry and fixed the problem in the
production line/design. I didn't lose respect for the company, quite the
opposite...

Mike

"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jh0t3F11doviU1@uni-berlin.de...
> chrisv wrote:
> > "rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_063138.html
> >
> > Wow. That's just not right. There goes any chance of my ever buying
> > a card from Sapphire.
>
> So they made a marketing mistake, exhanging the card, used or otherwise
for
> a replacement 256bit version for a reasonable $25 fee puts them towards
the
> top of my list in terms of reputable people to deal with.
>
> Their response could have been "screw you".
>
> Ben
> --
> A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
> Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
> I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jh0t3F11doviU1@uni-berlin.de...


> So they made a marketing mistake, exhanging the card, used or otherwise
for
> a replacement 256bit version for a reasonable $25 fee puts them towards
the
> top of my list in terms of reputable people to deal with.
>
> Their response could have been "screw you".
>
> Ben


A marketing 'mistake'? Someone in that company made a conscious decision to
take a low end card, that they were already selling in a PROPERLY labeled
way, and rename it to make it appear to be a higher end card. Where is the
freaking mistake? Their only mistake was in getting caught at it.
True...they could have said screw you...they could also have been
successfully sued. They could have lost more customers than they already
have. Instead they did some self-serving damage control. They did what every
petty criminal does when they get caught (ie a shoplifter), and said the
equivalent of, "can't I just put it back?"...
As I have said in other posts, a couple of days ago I held my properly
labeled Sapphire 9800 pro card in my hand and compared it to what (two
months ago) Sapphire was selling labeled as a 9800SE card...except NOW this
9800SE card had the very same (can we say IDENTICAL boys and girls) label as
was on my true 9800 Pro card! Mistake?...hardly. Fraud?...definitely.

Anyone silly enough to look at this as a mistake is a potential victim, just
waiting to be cheated...

my two cents worth.....

M

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

mudz wrote:
> "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2jh0t3F11doviU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>
>> So they made a marketing mistake, exhanging the card, used or otherwise
>> for a replacement 256bit version for a reasonable $25 fee puts them
>> towards the top of my list in terms of reputable people to deal with.
>>
>> Their response could have been "screw you".
>
> A marketing 'mistake'? Someone in that company made a conscious decision
> to take a low end card, that they were already selling in a PROPERLY
> labeled way, and rename it to make it appear to be a higher end card.
> Where is the freaking mistake?

The mistake was not making it clear enough wht they did. I do also disagree
with the practice of calling them Pros, but I didn't realise that the boxes
had "128bit memory interface" written on them either. Not that that helps
the average consumer.

> Their only mistake was in getting caught
> at it. True...they could have said screw you...they could also have been
> successfully sued.

In which country? If the box says 128bit all over it, then they're hardly
lying.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jmat6Ft8tjaU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> The mistake was not making it clear enough wht they did. I do also
disagree
> with the practice of calling them Pros, but I didn't realise that the
boxes
> had "128bit memory interface" written on them either. Not that that helps
> the average consumer.
>
> > Their only mistake was in getting caught
> > at it. True...they could have said screw you...they could also have been
> > successfully sued.
>
> In which country? If the box says 128bit all over it, then they're hardly
> lying.
>
> Ben

It certainly IS lying. ATI has certain standards for a card to be named a
9800 PRO. Sticking a tiny label on the box that says 128 bit does NOT then
permit you to call a 9800 SE card a 9800 PRO card. And I would suggest that
in the US of A a class action lawsuit would work very well...


The problem is that the 128 bit was NOT written on every package. Putting
that larger 128 bit label on forthcoming boxes is their supposed remedy for
this situation. Here is the problem as I see it. To the average consumer 128
bit does not mean much...after all that is double 64 bit and could be
misconstrued as being an 'improvement'. What the average consumer DOES
understand is 9800 PRO...*that* they can relate to, because that means
something...they see it printed on retail boxed products, and they know that
a pro is better than a plain 9800, and that a 9800SE is a lower grade than a
9800. The specific card that I saw was an OEM product..absolutely NO mention
of 128 bit interface anyplace...and it had the very same label as my genuine
9800 PRO....a purchaser...and indeed the seller...had NO way to know this
was a lesser card. *That* is fraudulent marketing...end of story...

What Sapphire did is no different that a jeweller taking a one carat
crystal...labeling it as a one carat diamond and selling it for thousands of
dollars. It is still a piece of crystal and the purchaser HAS been
cheated....this is soooooo simple.

M

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:40:24 GMT, "mudz" <mudz@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:2jmat6Ft8tjaU1@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> The mistake was not making it clear enough wht they did. I do also
>disagree
>> with the practice of calling them Pros, but I didn't realise that the
>boxes
>> had "128bit memory interface" written on them either. Not that that helps
>> the average consumer.
>>
>> > Their only mistake was in getting caught
>> > at it. True...they could have said screw you...they could also have been
>> > successfully sued.
>>
>> In which country? If the box says 128bit all over it, then they're hardly
>> lying.
>>
>> Ben
>
>It certainly IS lying. ATI has certain standards for a card to be named a
>9800 PRO. Sticking a tiny label on the box that says 128 bit does NOT then
>permit you to call a 9800 SE card a 9800 PRO card. And I would suggest that
>in the US of A a class action lawsuit would work very well...
>
>
>The problem is that the 128 bit was NOT written on every package. Putting
>that larger 128 bit label on forthcoming boxes is their supposed remedy for
>this situation. Here is the problem as I see it. To the average consumer 128
>bit does not mean much...after all that is double 64 bit and could be
>misconstrued as being an 'improvement'. What the average consumer DOES
>understand is 9800 PRO...*that* they can relate to, because that means
>something...they see it printed on retail boxed products, and they know that
>a pro is better than a plain 9800, and that a 9800SE is a lower grade than a
>9800. The specific card that I saw was an OEM product..absolutely NO mention
>of 128 bit interface anyplace...and it had the very same label as my genuine
>9800 PRO....a purchaser...and indeed the seller...had NO way to know this
>was a lesser card. *That* is fraudulent marketing...end of story...
>
>What Sapphire did is no different that a jeweller taking a one carat
>crystal...labeling it as a one carat diamond and selling it for thousands of
>dollars. It is still a piece of crystal and the purchaser HAS been
>cheated....this is soooooo simple.
>
>M
>

Depends what the crystal is. If it's a diamond, then what's the
problem? If it's a Sapphire, of course... ;-)

patrickp

patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk - take five to email me