Bluetooth crippling.

Guest · Aug 6, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Has VZW ever offered a technical explanation (or reason) that they do this
???

--
I work for the ILEC ...." stuff happens! "

Guest · Aug 6, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Remove This" <telcotech@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:aVNIe.98$lK2.97@trndny01...
> Has VZW ever offered a technical explanation (or reason) that they do this
> ???

The reasons is that they would prefer to charge for transferring pictures,
ringtones and video, and for syncing data. Bluetooth provides an easy,
direct way to do this, bypassing Verizon.

>
>
> --
> I work for the ILEC ...." stuff happens! "
>
>
>

ken · Aug 6, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

The following is copied from an email
from verizon tech support. Ha..

It is the intent of Verizon Wireless to
provide the best equipment and services
possible while maintaining reasonable
security measures to protect our
customers and the security of our
wireless network.

Hypothetically, someone walking by with
a PDA in there pocket or a laptop in a
car near you could pass a virus to your
phone, corrupting your phone, from there
you head home and your home network and
PC is corrupted and finally the virus
corrupts the network.

The limited use of mp3 is also due to
the same security measure's as
bluetooth. Layer 3 files or MP3's or
encrypted sound files that people can
download or even create there own using
there own software. The process in
creating or even downloading MP3's can
carry a virus that can cripple your
phones software. Therefore, we limited
or take out these features for the
safety of both our customers and the
network.

Due to an unusual large amount of
e-mails received, we are taking slightly
longer to respond and we apologize for
the delay. We appreciate your patience.

We appreciate your business. Thank you
for using Verizon Wireless products and
services.

KEn

Phillip · Aug 6, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Ken" <asken@att.net> wrote in message
news:j408f1l208jhcmfscjaqtmptntfhfj3u86@4ax.com...
> The following is copied from an email
> from verizon tech support. Ha..
>
> It is the intent of Verizon Wireless to
> provide the best equipment and services
> possible while maintaining reasonable
> security measures to protect our
> customers and the security of our
> wireless network.
>
> Hypothetically, someone walking by with
> a PDA in there pocket or a laptop in a
> car near you could pass a virus to your
> phone, corrupting your phone, from there
> you head home and your home network and
> PC is corrupted and finally the virus
> corrupts the network.
>
> The limited use of mp3 is also due to
> the same security measure's as
> bluetooth. Layer 3 files or MP3's or
> encrypted sound files that people can
> download or even create there own using
> there own software. The process in
> creating or even downloading MP3's can
> carry a virus that can cripple your
> phones software. Therefore, we limited
> or take out these features for the
> safety of both our customers and the
> network.
>
> Due to an unusual large amount of
> e-mails received, we are taking slightly
> longer to respond and we apologize for
> the delay. We appreciate your patience.
>
> We appreciate your business. Thank you
> for using Verizon Wireless products and
> services.
>
>
> KEn
>
MP3's are not an executable and therefore can carry a virus....

Guest · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

i got a virus from an mp3 before. I've gotten several viruses from mp3s
before. But I get my mp3s legally now so no worries about viruses.
"Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1cYIe.171$911.24@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Ken" <asken@att.net> wrote in message
> news:j408f1l208jhcmfscjaqtmptntfhfj3u86@4ax.com...
>> The following is copied from an email
>> from verizon tech support. Ha..
>>
>> It is the intent of Verizon Wireless to
>> provide the best equipment and services
>> possible while maintaining reasonable
>> security measures to protect our
>> customers and the security of our
>> wireless network.
>>
>> Hypothetically, someone walking by with
>> a PDA in there pocket or a laptop in a
>> car near you could pass a virus to your
>> phone, corrupting your phone, from there
>> you head home and your home network and
>> PC is corrupted and finally the virus
>> corrupts the network.
>>
>> The limited use of mp3 is also due to
>> the same security measure's as
>> bluetooth. Layer 3 files or MP3's or
>> encrypted sound files that people can
>> download or even create there own using
>> there own software. The process in
>> creating or even downloading MP3's can
>> carry a virus that can cripple your
>> phones software. Therefore, we limited
>> or take out these features for the
>> safety of both our customers and the
>> network.
>>
>> Due to an unusual large amount of
>> e-mails received, we are taking slightly
>> longer to respond and we apologize for
>> the delay. We appreciate your patience.
>>
>> We appreciate your business. Thank you
>> for using Verizon Wireless products and
>> services.
>>
>>
>> KEn
>>
> MP3's are not an executable and therefore can carry a virus....
>

J · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Remove This" <telcotech@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:aVNIe.98$lK2.97@trndny01...
> Has VZW ever offered a technical explanation (or reason) that they do this
> ???
$$$, nuff said.

Guest · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Does Verizon really think we believe this nonsense?

"Ken" <asken@att.net> wrote in message
news:j408f1l208jhcmfscjaqtmptntfhfj3u86@4ax.com...
> The following is copied from an email
> from verizon tech support. Ha..
>
> It is the intent of Verizon Wireless to
> provide the best equipment and services
> possible while maintaining reasonable
> security measures to protect our
> customers and the security of our
> wireless network.
>
> Hypothetically, someone walking by with
> a PDA in there pocket or a laptop in a
> car near you could pass a virus to your
> phone, corrupting your phone, from there
> you head home and your home network and
> PC is corrupted and finally the virus
> corrupts the network.
>
> The limited use of mp3 is also due to
> the same security measure's as
> bluetooth. Layer 3 files or MP3's or
> encrypted sound files that people can
> download or even create there own using
> there own software. The process in
> creating or even downloading MP3's can
> carry a virus that can cripple your
> phones software. Therefore, we limited
> or take out these features for the
> safety of both our customers and the
> network.
>
> Due to an unusual large amount of
> e-mails received, we are taking slightly
> longer to respond and we apologize for
> the delay. We appreciate your patience.
>
> We appreciate your business. Thank you
> for using Verizon Wireless products and
> services.
>
>
> KEn
>

Guest · Aug 7, 2005

ap · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <jIedndtTNqGrsWjfRVn-jA@comcast.com>, mnmma@comcast.net
says...
> i got a virus from an mp3 before. I've gotten several viruses from mp3s
> before. But I get my mp3s legally now so no worries about viruses.

Hmmm.... imagine Microsoft disable Internet access because thats the way
you can get viruses or illigal software

)))

AP

Scott · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"AP" <cat@eveningstar.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d5fc8f838c8b63a9898da@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
> In article <jIedndtTNqGrsWjfRVn-jA@comcast.com>, mnmma@comcast.net
> says...
> > i got a virus from an mp3 before. I've gotten several viruses from mp3s
> > before. But I get my mp3s legally now so no worries about viruses.
>
> Hmmm.... imagine Microsoft disable Internet access because thats the way
> you can get viruses or illigal software

)))
>
>
But to make the analogy more comparable, Microsoft would then have to be
your ISP and have sold you hardware for use on their system. This being
said, many ISP's limit or cap certain functionality. Interestingly enough,
many that complain about cellphone network or hardware restrictions never
bat an eye at what the ISP's do.

Guest · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

--

"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in message
news:F8KdndcAo95TjmvfRVn-3w@adelphia.com...
|
| > > i got a virus from an mp3 before. I've gotten several viruses from
mp3s
| > > before. But I get my mp3s legally now so no worries about viruses.
| >
| > Hmmm.... imagine Microsoft disable Internet access because that's the
way
| > you can get viruses or illegal software

)))
| >
| >
| But to make the analogy more comparable, Microsoft would then have to be
| your ISP and have sold you hardware for use on their system. This being
| said, many ISP's limit or cap certain functionality. Interestingly
enough,
| many that complain about cellphone network or hardware restrictions never
| bat an eye at what the ISP's do.

Could that be the things that ISP's do aren't intentionally designed to miss
lead / nickel and dime the customer base?

To my view the only real difference between VZN's business plan and that of
Ken Lay's ENRON is that VZN's is not so blatantly illegal.

Scott · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news

9qJe.3262$Zo3.193@fe03.lga...
>
> --
>
> "Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in message
> news:F8KdndcAo95TjmvfRVn-3w@adelphia.com...
> |
> | > > i got a virus from an mp3 before. I've gotten several viruses from
> mp3s
> | > > before. But I get my mp3s legally now so no worries about viruses.
> | >
> | > Hmmm.... imagine Microsoft disable Internet access because that's the
> way
> | > you can get viruses or illegal software

)))
> | >
> | >
> | But to make the analogy more comparable, Microsoft would then have to be
> | your ISP and have sold you hardware for use on their system. This being
> | said, many ISP's limit or cap certain functionality. Interestingly
> enough,
> | many that complain about cellphone network or hardware restrictions
never
> | bat an eye at what the ISP's do.
>
> Could that be the things that ISP's do aren't intentionally designed to
miss
> lead / nickel and dime the customer base?

Really? Speed caps (to generate more revenue), Usenet caps, port blocks, no
guarantee of service........... all are designed to either nickel and dime
or mislead.

>
> To my view the only real difference between VZN's business plan and that
of
> Ken Lay's ENRON is that VZN's is not so blatantly illegal.
>

Please elaborate- I don't remember the part of Business 101 that makes it a
crime to actually charge for services rendered. Unless you re talking about
the limited functionality of the network if you don't want to pay extra, and
then you need to point me to successful companies that give away their
services for free.

Guest · Aug 7, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8/7/05 11:53 AM, in article QoednVAmFazCxWvfRVn-og@adelphia.com, "Scott"
wrote:

<snip>

>> To my view the only real difference between VZN's business plan and that
> of
>> Ken Lay's ENRON is that VZN's is not so blatantly illegal.
>>
>
> Please elaborate- I don't remember the part of Business 101 that makes it a
> crime to actually charge for services rendered. Unless you re talking about
> the limited functionality of the network if you don't want to pay extra, and
> then you need to point me to successful companies that give away their
> services for free.

You've nailed the seminal point - Verizon is in business to sell a product
to those who are willing to buy it....!

The commonly held notion that Verizon has "crippled" Bluetooth is silly in
the extreme. Words mean things.

Verizon made a business decision to selectively implement some, but not all,
of the features Bluetooth can provide. They implemented all the features
that matter, IMO. Complaining endlessly about being unable to transfer
photos and ring tones without paying for the privilege strikes me as puerile
whining. Most folks neither need nor want those "kiddy" functions.....

I like my v710 - it's a great phone, which I use as a phone and data modem,
I don't take pictures with it, I have a digital SLR for that purpose, and I
don't play MP3's on it, I have an iPod for that purpose and I could care
less about childish ring tones......

Soooooo, if someone wants those childish features, other carriers will
happily accommodate them, but they won't do it for free.....

PC

ap · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <BF1BA926.401C%nospam@nospam.com>, nospam@nospam.com says...
>
> Verizon made a business decision to selectively implement some, but not all,
> of the features Bluetooth can provide. They implemented all the features
> that matter, IMO. Complaining endlessly about being unable to transfer
> photos and ring tones without paying for the privilege strikes me as puerile
> whining. Most folks neither need nor want those "kiddy" functions.....
>
> I like my v710 - it's a great phone, which I use as a phone and data modem,
> I don't take pictures with it, I have a digital SLR for that purpose, and I
> don't play MP3's on it, I have an iPod for that purpose and I could care
> less about childish ring tones......

You see.... so why you can not use E815 as datamodem? It is not hardware
issue. Verizon disabled this option .... and yes ... you can enable it
yourself.

AP

Guest · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8/7/05 1:01 PM, in article
MPG.1d6024a63293f9e59898de@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net, "AP" wrote:

> In article <BF1BA926.401C%nospam@nospam.com>, nospam@nospam.com says...
>>
>> Verizon made a business decision to selectively implement some, but not all,
>> of the features Bluetooth can provide. They implemented all the features
>> that matter, IMO. Complaining endlessly about being unable to transfer
>> photos and ring tones without paying for the privilege strikes me as puerile
>> whining. Most folks neither need nor want those "kiddy" functions.....
>>
>> I like my v710 - it's a great phone, which I use as a phone and data modem,
>> I don't take pictures with it, I have a digital SLR for that purpose, and I
>> don't play MP3's on it, I have an iPod for that purpose and I could care
>> less about childish ring tones......
>
> You see.... so why you can not use E815 as datamodem? It is not hardware
> issue. Verizon disabled this option .... and yes ... you can enable it
> yourself.

I don't know that you can't use the e815 as a data modem - what makes you
think you can't???

Beyond that, what's your point?

I'm due to get an e815 and I think it will work fine, just as every other
Motorola phone I've used has worked fine.....

PC

ap · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <BF1BE836.409F%nospam@nospam.com>, nospam@nospam.com says...
>
> I don't know that you can't use the e815 as a data modem - what makes you
> think you can't???
>
> Beyond that, what's your point?
>
> I'm due to get an e815 and I think it will work fine, just as every other
> Motorola phone I've used has worked fine.....
>

No "official" USB driver .... disabled Dialup on bluetooth.
I like that phone though (after few changes)

AP

Guest · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8/7/05 5:03 PM, in article
MPG.1d605d55249c09799898df@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net, "AP" wrote:

> In article <BF1BE836.409F%nospam@nospam.com>, nospam@nospam.com says...
>>
>> I don't know that you can't use the e815 as a data modem - what makes you
>> think you can't???
>>
>> Beyond that, what's your point?
>>
>> I'm due to get an e815 and I think it will work fine, just as every other
>> Motorola phone I've used has worked fine.....
>>
>
> No "official" USB driver .... disabled Dialup on bluetooth.
> I like that phone though (after few changes)

Nothing unusual about any of that - the "driver" will be included in MOK, as
usual....it's happened before, i.e., MOK wasn't released with the phone....

Dialup on Bluetooth isn't disabled - you just have to configure it
manually....

FWIW, I use my v710 as a data modem via Bluetooth on a Mac laptop - I expect
to use the e815 the same way......

PC

Justin · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Ken wrote on [Sat, 06 Aug 2005 00:14:02 GMT]:
> Hypothetically, someone walking by with
> a PDA in there pocket or a laptop in a
> car near you could pass a virus to your
>
> The limited use of mp3 is also due to
> the same security measure's as
> bluetooth. Layer 3 files or MP3's or
> encrypted sound files that people can
> download or even create there own using
> there own software. The process in
>
> Due to an unusual large amount of
> e-mails received, we are taking slightly
> longer to respond and we apologize for
> the delay. We appreciate your patience.
>
> We appreciate your business. Thank you
> for using Verizon Wireless products and
> services.

Was this really received from VZW customer service? You'd think they'd
know the correct use of the words there and their.

ap · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <BF1BF2B8.40B9%nospam@nospam.com>, nospam@nospam.com says...
>
> Nothing unusual about any of that - the "driver" will be included in MOK, as
> usual....it's happened before, i.e., MOK wasn't released with the phone....

Im not saying that any of those options are not possible.... just for
some reason Verizon decided to disable some optiosn (Im not talking
about turning bluetooth on)

As for data (yes... I have been able to access Express network and use
data cable ... but had to use "unofficial" software) here is response
from Motorola:

"Thank you for contacting Motorola e-mail support, we appreciate your
request.

Thank you very much for your considerations and interest in our
products.

Regarding your concern, please note that the Mobile Phone Tools software
is not compatible with your E815 phone. We do not have any other drivers
or software to use with this phone.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and look forward
to assisting you in the future.

If you have further questions or need additional assistance, please
contact our Cellular Information Center at 1-800-331-6456. Our business
hours are Monday through Friday from 7am to 10pm CST and Saturday and
Sunday from 9am to 6pm CST."

AP

Joseph · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:03:50 -0700, Proconsul <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Verizon made a business decision to selectively implement some, but not all,
>of the features Bluetooth can provide. They implemented all the features
>that matter, IMO. Complaining endlessly about being unable to transfer
>photos and ring tones without paying for the privilege strikes me as puerile
>whining. Most folks neither need nor want those "kiddy" functions.....

This may come as a shock to you but business users may have a desire
to transfer files using their bluetooth connection through their phone
from their computer. Your definition of "childish" would not be
appreciated by business folk.

- -

Guest · Aug 8, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On 8/8/05 7:51 AM, in article c8sef11km7pilujemjvs3a2ss2g4njv7k9@4ax.com,
"Joseph" wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:03:50 -0700, Proconsul <nospam@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Verizon made a business decision to selectively implement some, but not all,
>> of the features Bluetooth can provide. They implemented all the features
>> that matter, IMO. Complaining endlessly about being unable to transfer
>> photos and ring tones without paying for the privilege strikes me as puerile
>> whining. Most folks neither need nor want those "kiddy" functions.....
>
> This may come as a shock to you but business users may have a desire
> to transfer files using their bluetooth connection through their phone
> from their computer. Your definition of "childish" would not be
> appreciated by business folk.

I'm not "shocked" but rather skeptical......

I specifically said ring tones and photos, etc., which are clearly
"childish" demands.....

What "files" are important for business folks that can't be transferred?? I
suspect the "demand pull" is miniscule.....

In any event, Verizon provides means by which you can those things, but you
have to pay....too bad!....

That's one of those pesky business decisions
the whiners don't like.....

PC

Scott · Aug 9, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96AC66CB44E25noone@63.223.7.253...

>
> Sure am going to be following this class action lawsuit against VZW for
the
> hobbled Bluetooth phones.

Phones that work exactly as advertised- that will sure to command a very
high settlement. Can you point out the statute that gives control of the
Verizon network to the consumer and not the Company? Or the statute that
mandates full functionality of the bluetooth product in all situations? You
are living proof of one thing- a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Now, let's look at how many places this topic is referenced:

From the Service Agreement:

"Your Wireless Phone
Your wireless phone is any device you use to receive our wireless voice or
data service. It must comply with Federal Communications Commission
regulations and be compatible with our network and your calling plan.
Whether you buy your wireless phone from us or someone else is entirely your
choice. At times we may change your wireless phone's software or programming
remotely and without notice. This could affect data you've stored on, or the
way you've programmed, your wireless phone. Your wireless phone may also
contain software that prevents it from being used with any other company's
wireless service, even if it's no longer used to receive our service."

Notice the first sentence- "our wireless voice or data service." At no
point do they endorse products or services they do not supply.

"Disclaimer Of Warranties
? WE MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING,
TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF
MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE CONCERNING YOUR SERVICE
OR YOUR WIRELESS PHONE. WE CAN'T PROMISE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE SERVICE
AND DON'T AUTHORIZE ANYONE TO MAKE ANY WARRANTIES ON OUR BEHALF. THIS
DOESN'T DEPRIVE YOU OF ANY WARRANTY RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE AGAINST ANYONE
ELSE."

This makes everything you just posted moot, especially in light of the
attention given to bluetooth in the written documentation.

The Verizon definition of Bluetooth:

"Bluetooth
Bluetooth is a low bandwidth, wireless networking technology designed
primarily to replace cables for communication between personal computing and
communication devices. It is intended to be used for both voice and data
communications. With Bluetooth, you can make hands-free calls virtually
whenever and wherever you want. To use Bluetooth technology, you'll need a
Bluetooth-capable device and headset. "

I don't see any claims of full functionality there.

"Does Verizon Wireless offer any Bluetooth-compatible devices?

We currently offer the following devices with select Bluetooth capability:
Motorola v710, Motorola E815, Audiovox XV6600 (Microsoft Pocket PC PDA),
BlackBerry 7250 (RIM BlackBerry device), LG VX8100, Samsung i730, and Treotm
650. The specific Bluetooth functionality included for each of these devices
can be found in the Bluetooth profile section below."

Again, the implication of full functionality is lacking.

"Which profiles does Verizon Wireless currently include?

Rather than discuss specific profiles, Verizon Wireless has found it more
helpful to our customers to discuss Bluetooth functionality. Refer to the
Bluetooth chart for functionality included on each of our Bluetooth-enabled
devices. "

Again, no claim of full functionality.

And the chart? It gives a model-by-model description of the functionality
available. Now, let's go to the product description for the E815 as an
example:

"*The E815 supports Bluetooth Profiles for wireless headsets, hands-free
accessories. Phonebook/datebook synchronization with optional Motorola Phone
Tools. It does not support all object exchange (OBEX) profiles. Accessories
and Phone Book Tool sold separately. See Bluetooth for details."

Not as small print, but as part of the description. All other BT phones
carry the same disclaimer.

I could post more, but it is abundantly clear- only an idiot would buy a
phone assuming full bluetooth when all documentation indicates otherwise.

And Larry- thanks for proving my earlier point about certain people feeling
entitled to more than they deserve. I suspect that your antics add about a
buck a year to every state tax bill to cover the cost of your pomposity.
The last thing we need here is a legal cut and paster that doesn't
understand everything they post. As I said- a little knowledge is a
dangerous thing.

Larry · Aug 9, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in news:EYidnXt55O5nbGrfRVn-uw@adelphia.com:

> Can you point out the statute that gives control of the
> Verizon network to the consumer and not the Company?

The network is not warrantied. Bluetooth has nothing to do with their
network. Bluetooth is a communication system between Bluetooth items. The
lawsuit's contention is Bluetooth is a set of tools, a functionality every
other manufacturer provides. When one buys a Bluetooth item, just the word
implies ("implied warranty of suitability for a particular purpose"). The
crippling negates Bluetooth's operation. This violates the Bluetooth
operability of the unit. The unit is then not ready for sale.

It would be the same as a dishwasher. Just the word dishwasher describes
to the consumer a functionality. If you buy a "dishwasher", there is no
need to completely describe in every detail in a legal document what you,
the consumer buying a "dishwasher" expects. You expect it to do certain
functions. When you get it home, you find the company has hobbled the
"dishwasher" and it will actually only wash glasses. It fails miserably to
wash plates and pots and pans...it only washes glasses. Do you think the
jurists will side with the company that it doesn't, as a "dishwasher" need
to wash plates and pots, too? Do we need to spell that out in legal
details in the warranty and advertising? No. Normal prudent humans
brought up in our society expect a "dishwasher" to wash everything used to
prepare foods, even the grates from the gas grille. That it only washes
glasses is unacceptable to the jurist, the only person in the suit that
matters. The same with Bluetooth. Bluetooth isn't a communication system
with earphones ONLY. Bluetooth communicates and is operable with all kinds
of Bluetooth-enabled items. Anything less is unacceptable because the
consumer expects the word "Bluetooth" to do these things.

I bet the jurist agrees....don't you? The recall will follow to have
Bluetooth uncrippled, by force, of course.

--
Larry

Larry · Aug 9, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in
news:EYidnXt55O5nbGrfRVn-uw@adelphia.com:

> WE MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
> INCLUDING, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, ANY IMPLIED
> WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
> CONCERNING YOUR SERVICE OR YOUR WIRELESS PHONE. WE CAN'T PROMISE
> UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE SERVICE AND DON'T AUTHORIZE ANYONE TO MAKE
> ANY WARRANTIES ON OUR BEHALF. THIS DOESN'T DEPRIVE YOU OF ANY WARRANTY
> RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE AGAINST ANYONE ELSE."
>

You see this on every item on every limited warranty. However, read the
FTC manual. It means nothing. The two implied warranties are in full
force for the length of the limited warranty, no matter what it says.

15USC50 section 2308(a) states:

"TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > § 2308

§ 2308. Implied warranties

(a) Restrictions on disclaimers or modifications
No supplier may disclaim or modify (except as provided in subsection (b) of
this section) any implied warranty to a consumer with respect to such
consumer product if

(1) such supplier makes any written warranty to the consumer with respect
to such consumer Product, or

(2) at the time of sale, or within 90 days thereafter, such supplier enters
into a service contract with the consumer which applies to such consumer
product."

and the reference to (b) which says:

"(b) Limitation on duration
For purposes of this chapter (other than section 2304 (a)(2) of this
title), implied warranties may be limited in duration to the duration of a
written warranty of reasonable duration, if such limitation is conscionable
and is set forth in clear and unmistakable language and prominently
displayed on the face of the warranty."

Total disclaiming of implied warranties, as you can plainly read, is not
permitted just because the merchant and manufacturer want them to be. This
is Federal Law. What amazes me is how easy it is to read....(c;

--
Larry

Larry · Aug 9, 2005

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott" <how.do@you.do> wrote in
news:EYidnXt55O5nbGrfRVn-uw@adelphia.com:

> "Bluetooth
> Bluetooth is a low bandwidth, wireless networking technology designed
> primarily to replace cables for communication between personal
> computing and communication devices. It is intended to be used for
> both voice and data communications. With Bluetooth, you can make
> hands-free calls virtually whenever and wherever you want. To use
> Bluetooth technology, you'll need a Bluetooth-capable device and
> headset. "
>
>

They even admit it. The communications between the phone and personal
computer devices is what is at issue, right?...(c;

--
Larry

Bluetooth crippling.

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