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Game default input maps

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November 23, 2003 10:33:57 PM

Ok I have played for years many different games both at home and online.
Many players that have played these games for years want to enhance the skill levels they possess so that they can move around in the game quickly.
I call them hackers but a few may be having the problem I am having right now and this is why a few of them have gone the route of script file's to cheat online.

You see I have a reasonable computer system and I can play all the first person shooter games very well in fact.
I just downloaded the demo, Call Of Duty, Danwnville demo.
The graphics as expected are simple and none thrilling....the player models are the same blocky Tony the Tiger figures. You can still see through the sprites like helmets and between the ears of the player models.
The weapons are clumsy and hard to use.
The command interface is not configured in such a way that you can work with the given equipment correctly.
As I Hunt in real life I know what it is like to use a Rifle fire a shot gun and wear a side arm.
The biggest beef I have about any of these new first person shooters that all of them seem to strive to achieve the quality of combat that a once silly download program called Day Of Defeat over the original Half Life CD. This game has evolved and has become online at least the best interactive game since the original Battlezone.

Why do they not let us configure how fast KEY-BINDS respond.
If I want to walk or Run why can' I set how fast those actions are.
If I want to slew left or right on the A and D key-binds why cant I set those for speed and responsiveness.

I always feel like I am fighting the game to perform actions that I can do so much faster. I used to play years ago game consoles like the old Sonic the Hedge Hog ect and always felt like I my reflexes were being held back.

I played as a Goalie for almost 15 years growing up, I have driven motorcycles for 20 years and I parachute.

I love the first person shooter games and I compete at the top levels of those games online in multiplayer but I always feel I could respond faster or quicker then the buttons respond. (accounting for connection issues) This is a different issue.

In Day Of Defeat I have the mouse control set to the highest level it can go I can turn around in a circle 2 times moving the mouse about 4 inches left or right. This lets me get into combat and stay alive.
In fact you get a good rhythm going and you can get 6 or 7 kills to a death when your in the zone.

The problem is the rest of the controls do not keep up. For flight Sims I have a Saitek Cyborg Evo joystick spent good money for it considering it is only a joystick and I move faster and REQUIRE faster response time from that input device... it responds to me anyways so slow I could go make coffee just waiting on it.

Game designers seem to keep most keys at specific rates however this might level the playing field for all online gamers and keep everyone performing within a specific boundary but it causes me physical and metal anguish because I can not move efficiently through the wonderful game maps they have written for these games.

It would be great if game designers got away from default keybind speeds and let users in the OPTIONS for these games create a User interface that matches the skills each player has.
If each player felt comfortable moving through the game environment with key-binds and mouse control that makes them more effective then we can really start to see online games flourish.

The only limit to a players skill set, is that set indirectly by the game manufacturers. and that is a bad thing.
I do not use script files to cheat online that would defeat the enjoyment of the game however for some players that I have come across online I can see how they are frustrated and default to script files that modify the game so they can move at the speed the brain is going and not the plodding mule steps built into the game.
I do not think they are right for doing it but I am beginning to see how they arrive at that location.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 24, 2003 4:58:42 PM

The slow responsiveness is caused by that infinitely inferior Athlon XP system you built yourself.

:smile:

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
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November 25, 2003 7:43:38 AM

Quote:
I played as a Goalie for almost 15 years growing up, I have driven motorcycles for 20 years and I parachute.

How does that figure in game playing?


<font color=blue>"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered" - George Best</font color=blue>
November 25, 2003 9:07:56 AM

I guess that detail slipped by you Rob.... Highly tuned reflexes.
A person cannot fail to tune the nervous system using it in advanced sporting activities.

You know space/environment awareness, physical balance and aptitudes that provide a machine with the ability to survive.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 25, 2003 9:12:40 AM

Key binds are about the last worry i have when playing online games as the lagg through internet (16ms) is more than enough.
O and your computer just not beeing able to keep up doesn't help either

If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 25, 2003 9:16:39 AM

games are enough to "fine tune your reflexes" as for the whole thing of being good at games, it just comes down to practice, sports don't really help in those things (maybe when you just start) it's all about knowing your computer and the game.

If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 25, 2003 9:53:36 AM

I did post that internet lag in the game was a different issue. My computer runs very well in fact it wins almost every map in Day Of defeat for the allies side as I tend not to play on the German team to much in fact never!!.
I do not have a computer problem the problem I have is my reflexes are above average and I find it hard waiting for input commands as my brain and body are racing ahead of the devices for input control.

That is why I would like to see game manufactures/programmers design the games so we can adjust how fast key binds respond.
In some games you can do this like flight simulations but the default keyboard commands generally are not programmable for side to side movement or forward or back speed.
I mean if you have the mental and physical skills to compete with the input devices cranked to the maximum settings then you should be able to play like that.

Most people including friends cant play like that, the mouse curser moves to fast for them and they cannot target or move around the game because they cant keep up to the computer.
When I get onto the P.C they sit and watch and are truly amazed at what I can do even if I feel like I am being held back.


»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 25, 2003 10:02:19 AM

TOX I disagree with you on that but not very strongly. I had a bad parachute jump back in 1987 I fractured both T2 and T3 vertebrae in my neck.
I hurt my right knee so bad on the landing that it was almost a week before I realized that I had fractured the vertebrae in my neck.
The Doctors recommended computer type games a physiotherapy to regain proper motor control. I had electro testing done at the time of the accident on both my left and right legs and left and right arms to check for similarity's and the Doctors told me the damage to my right arm and leg had very minimal consequence for me.
In fact the testing revealed that my left side not effected by the accident was well above normal reflex levels for the general population and that my right side had only been damaged down to the normal levels for most people.
The case study as they call it included my past physical exploits as in playing as a goalie for 15 years in competitive hockey and also from racing dirt bikes as a teen and to my training in parachuting.

I mean if you can't believe a Military Doctor who else can you Believe.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 25, 2003 2:32:07 PM

I think you answered your own question. Your reflexes are well above average, and the games are developped for the average person (or maybe a bit under that). The only reason that game developpers don't put this setting is just that it's not worth the trouble.

For the average guy the keys respond just Ok, so they don't think about it. For you the keys are too slow so you notice it. The best thing that developpers could do is to put the responsivness to the highest for everybody, so that people with good reflexes would have an advantage (which I find fair).

In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies
November 25, 2003 7:05:45 PM

Well not entirely I know of some friends who can compete at high levels for reaction time as well.
It is not entirely based on reflexes and I believe that most people do in fact think faster then the games are responding.
Lets take a simple example* If the A and the D keys are used for left and right movement of your player model those keys simply move left and right when the Key is pressed. How fast you press that key so it registers a press is only a small part of it.
How fast the player model actually moves in that direction is the problem.
If I press the ( A ) key to move left the player moves left at a set rate, this simply is not fast enough what we need is the ability in options like the mouse control sensitivity so we can make that left movement Faster.
In first person shooters this would let players that can control the player models at those speeds perform.
If a younger or new player cant handle the faster movements then they simply turn down the speed on the key until they feel comfortable.
Limiting other players to default input map key binds degrades the game and takes out the action part the game developers wanted to achieve in the first place.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 25, 2003 8:15:02 PM

Quote:
If I press the ( A ) key to move left the player moves left at a set rate, this simply is not fast enough what we need is the ability in options like the mouse control sensitivity so we can make that left movement Faster.


So what you're saying here is that you want an unfair advantage? If you can move faster than everyone else in the game, doesn't that present a problem to you? Unless we're talking about a game like Tribes where the scout moves much faster than the juggernaut... such variations in movement speed could lead to unfair advantages. The juggernaut in Tribes has more armor and bigger guns to balance his/her slow movement speed. Your suggestion adds no such balance... and gives the faster moving player a distinct advantage.

Unless I've misunderstood what you've said, this would never fly in FPS games. People complain as it is about others having unfair advantages.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
November 26, 2003 6:05:16 AM

At first I presumed you were talking about the reaction speed from pressing to the computer reacting. However from this post I saw that you meant the actual speed of the charaters in the game.

Just to be clear: in DOD or COD your are a normal soldier NOT superman.
The reason the characters move at a certain speed is to keep a level of realism in the game. I have no idea how realistic these speeds are in comparison to reallife combat, but the programmers have thought about the speed they set.
All the characters moving at the speed of light is:
1 not very realistic
2 makes em kinda hard to shoot (moving faster than the bullets
3 very hard for your computer to keep track of who's where

If you want a game that has those possibilities write to a software manufacturer or write your own software.

However your idea is not entirely stupis as I would like a system of some kind in games to be able to "upgrade" your character through training or combat. Another option is the opposite: if there is a very mixed bank of players one could make better players slower than the novices, and as a reward their kills and flags give them more points. This way new players don't get killed every 2 sec but are still low on the ranking.

Your brain is also faster than your body so it is also faster than the game.
I still don't see how you couple this to hacking everybody has this. For example: I aready know what I want to do when i reach the wall that doesn't mean i should be at the wall instantaneously.
Next you'll be complaing you can't shoot a sniper from 300 feet with a pistol while you can see him.


If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 26, 2003 7:34:51 AM

Well, I was in the army for 6 years, was 2nd sniper in my company, did over 100 parachute and freefall jumps, including HALO. Hasn't helped me in games!

<font color=blue>"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered" - George Best</font color=blue>
November 26, 2003 7:57:22 AM

You are getting to deep. No I believe the character models do not move as fast as they would in real life.
I do not expect to shoot anyone at 300 yards with a hand gun in fact the hackers use a speed hack that makes them hard to hit WITH a sniper rifle when they move through the game.
I simply want to be able to get my player model to manoeuvre as I would move and not feel like I am limited directly to the game design for default speeds.

I understand that everyone IS playing at the same speed in game and this make it realistic. Not to mention fair for all players.
However the hackers use script files to enable speed hacks above any sensible speeds and they use other scripts that enable them to see through walls and shoot targets with out aiming called aim bot hacks.
I am not into any of that lame stuff I simply want the player model to react in a normal manner and it feels as if they are running around with a boat anchor tied to their feet. AND NO I am not referring to internet connection or lag times.
Just to clear that up in Day Of Defeat Retail version from Activision you can pull down the console and type in NET_GRAPH 3 and observe your connection values in the lower right hand side of the monitor.
I get Zero Loss and Zero Choke as well as 100 FPS so there is no lag time involved in my connection to the game servers, other then the hidden standard packet loss that every computer has on a connection. With those good numbers that I get I should not have a connection issue causing lag in game.
On the other hand if I play any other first person shooter at home on the desktop connection issues are not even a factor.
I simply would like to see the option in a game to set rates of speed for the key_binds.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 26, 2003 8:01:21 AM

Well since you only had 100 jumps and only made second sniper that only proves your reflexes are below average.
P.S Civilians get a Licence at 100 jumps for parachuting what unit were you in ?
The Sunday only jumpers club !!
I had 100 jumps the first 9 months and 5 years later I lost track and my log books would take days to add up.

Oh I also trained American Jumpers how to cold weather jump.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 26, 2003 10:00:17 AM

I still see no explanation for your inconsistency.

First you say that hackers make their characters go at stupid speeds and you dispise of that, second you say you want to be able to influence combat characteristics of your character. I find this conflicting.

The movement speeds of the characters in games has hardly anything to do with reaction speeds, why do you thing everybody has autorun on? (where possible)
As for DOD I'd be able to keep up with my character running all the time too. The stamina bar goes down for a reason.

If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 26, 2003 7:22:26 PM

Quote:
Well since you only had 100 jumps and only made second sniper that only proves your reflexes are below average

Oh really? And how do you come to that bloody conclusion Einstein? I could take either your left or right testicle clean off from a distance of 500 feet or greater. You could've picked which one you wanted to lose. I was that accurate. I did over 100 jumps and can't remember the exact amount. What unit was I in? Parachute Regiment, 3rd Battalion. If my reflexes were that crap, I wouldn't have been picked for Pathfinder selection, an elite recon unit, where you get nominated by your CO. Don't think I'd have got very far if I was crap, do you? We did more than just jump out of planes in the army you know. During my Pathfinder training I HALO'd from 18,000ft with a 100lb rucksack strapped behind my thighs and my rifle lashed to my leg. Somehow, I doubt that's something you've ever done. Oh, and did I mention it was at night, too?

I made a light hearted comment and this is what I get? You arse.

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
November 26, 2003 8:19:05 PM

A 500 yard shot is a crap shoot since you rifle is cold and you could not fire it to warm the barrel because it would give your location away.
A coke can at half a mile is an easy target even in the wind if your rifle has had 3 rounds go through it.
You are such a great shot Try a pellet rifle with 700 FPS and hit a beer cap at 100 feet now that's skill. We used to do that from the barracks window after about 5 or 6 beers and not that low alcohol American beer we are talking about Canadian 5% stuff.
Talent is always overlooked and its always the loud ones that get promoted lol.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 28, 2003 5:36:27 PM

Quote:
I simply want to be able to get my player model to manoeuvre as I would move and not feel like I am limited directly to the game design for default speeds.


Everyone is 'limited' by the game's default speeds. This is what makes the game fair for everyone. Now, you want to be able to move and react faster, giving you an unfair advantage over everyone else. If it were real life, yes, by all means you'd have an advantage. In a game, however, you are not you... you are playing a character... and all the characters have roughly the same abilities in terms of movement speed and reaction time.

Last time I checked, there were no fat, out-of-shape soldiers running around in DoD.


<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
November 28, 2003 5:46:06 PM

You're forgetting the short sightedness. lol :wink:


If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 28, 2003 6:11:12 PM

O bugger I know I shouldn't respond to such inconsistency and stupidity but for you sod I'll make an exception:

Quote:
A 500 yard shot is a crap shoot since you rifle is cold and you could not fire it to warm the barrel because it would give your location away.
A coke can at half a mile is an easy target even in the wind if your rifle has had 3 rounds go through it.
You are such a great shot Try a pellet rifle with 700 FPS and hit a beer cap at 100 feet now that's skill. We used to do that from the barracks window after about 5 or 6 beers and not that low alcohol American beer we are talking about Canadian 5% stuff.

Now having read the above pay special attention to this:
Quote:
Talent is always overlooked and its always the loud ones that get promoted lol.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.

In this thread (and forum for that) the one screaming at the top of their lungs how great they are is none other than YOU ...... LOL


If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 28, 2003 6:47:26 PM

Don't waste your time, he lives in his own little fantasy world.

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
November 29, 2003 9:15:46 AM

hmmm... ppl seem to be forgetting a game is A GAME... ya know?? fun??!!

also in response to the first post where u spin twice with small mouse movements??? wtf??? any half decent player in any fps game i've seen turns mouse sensitivity down as its allows for a much steadier aim.

and also the "however for some players that I have come across online I can see how they are frustrated and default to script files that modify the game so they can move at the speed the brain is going and not the plodding mule steps built into the game."

lol... thats cheating.... justify it however u like... to edit a game to allow for yur self proclaimed brilliance is giving u an edge that everyone doesnt have.... a game is a GAME its like saying that in a game of football, cos i can kick a ball further than everyone else the goal posts I'm aiming at should be widened so i have a better chance of scoring...

"I'm the dog from the advert. Would you like to stroke my coat?"
November 29, 2003 10:39:01 AM

I realise it's a game, I don't mind if I get shot 10 times before I get to shoot someone due to lagg and a slow comp, it just gives me all the more satisfaction when I finally do cop some other guy!

It's just that I find it irritating when someone is cheating, what this ass doesn't realise is if everybody cheats the game will be about who's better in programming than who's better in gaming or has better stratagy. (this even plays a role in mindless shooting games)

If all else fails: Read The Manual
November 29, 2003 11:40:43 AM

And you've replied to me because.......?

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
November 30, 2003 2:37:32 AM

Too lazy to scroll up and click reply next to the post he was replying too? An attempt to confuse us? We shall never know!
December 1, 2003 7:30:45 AM

its all part of the master plan.... it begins by replying to the totally wrong person... soon. WORLD DOMINATION!!!! just havent figured out the middle bit yet.

"I'm the dog from the advert. Would you like to stroke my coat?"
December 1, 2003 8:51:44 AM

Hehehehe!

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
!