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Gateway 500S / XP Home / SP2 install problems, failures.

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Anonymous
January 13, 2005 8:00:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Has/is anyone seeing or read of issues with problems installing SP2 on this
model? The reason I ask is that I've now seen two of these machines (nearly
identically configured) that choke/fail on the initial reboot after the SP2
install.

This would include doing so after a CLEAN install of XP Home with nothing
added before the install, so as to rule out file corruption, spyware,
application conflicts, etc.

The only thing I have not tried on either machine (neither belongs to me) is
a flashBIOS update, which I am reluctant to perform.

Both of these machines are P4 1.8/2.2GHz/256mb PC2100 DDR/and have nearly
matching optical drives etc.

What am I missing here? Comments appreciated.


Stew
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 3:40:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

I don't know if this problem is common to these machines but I had the same
experience with my 500S, in September '04, when I tried updating to SP2 from
Microsoft's CD. Twice, after the install, my only solution was to reformat.
I spent several hours on the phone with Gateway and was very impressed with
their help. Even after being raised to higher levels of support, their only
solution was to reformat and bring my updates back to SP1 status. After
doing that, I installed all further updates with the exception of SP2.
That's where I stand today and I have never had another problem. I will
never install SP2 on this machine.

It's interesting that after speaking to several reps at Gateway, my problem
was not unique. They blamed Microsoft and in turn Microsoft was blaming
them, as well as Dell, HP, etc. for these install problems. I was offered
another option whereby if I x'ed & o'ed the drive, a higher level of support
would call me back and go through the entire install process. The only
problem was I would be put on a wait list and I probably would not hear from
anyone for 10-14 days. This level of support was only dealing with problems
with the SP2 install. This meant I would be without use of the computer
during this time. My decision was, I'll stick with SP1. Case closed!

I bought this computer in February '02. I have always kept up with all
driver updates, Windows updates, virus updates, etc. The only thing I have
never gone near is the BIOS updates. I never had a problem before this and
never had to call Gateway before this. The whole experience was very
frustrating. In answer to your final question the only thing you are missing
is the SP2 update and I'm living happily without it!

500S P4 1.8 512MB

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:53DFd.2211$BP1.533@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Has/is anyone seeing or read of issues with problems installing SP2 on
this
> model? The reason I ask is that I've now seen two of these machines
(nearly
> identically configured) that choke/fail on the initial reboot after the
SP2
> install.
>
> This would include doing so after a CLEAN install of XP Home with nothing
> added before the install, so as to rule out file corruption, spyware,
> application conflicts, etc.
>
> The only thing I have not tried on either machine (neither belongs to me)
is
> a flashBIOS update, which I am reluctant to perform.
>
> Both of these machines are P4 1.8/2.2GHz/256mb PC2100 DDR/and have nearly
> matching optical drives etc.
>
> What am I missing here? Comments appreciated.
>
>
> Stew
>
>
January 14, 2005 9:26:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:40:45 GMT, "WDS" <WDS@reply.via.newsgroup.only>
wrote:

>I don't know if this problem is common to these machines

The SP2 Abortion is a common cause of system destruction to many
systems and is not just brand, chipset, etc. specific. M$ tech
themselves have been quoted as telling crashed system owners that they
just don't know why SP2 will not work with their system.

The biggest problem is an arrogant attitude by M$ and those cloned
little mouthpieces of theirs out there running around trying to put a
warm fuzzy face on SP2. M$ and those MVP clones keep pushing their
idea that they put a piece of software out on the market and if
existing systems that are already running just fine crash because of
their upgrade, then it is the system's fault, not the upgrade. If
existing software already on the market that is and has been running
just fine fails with the installation of SP2, then the fault is the
existing software that was already running just fine, NOT SP2. See
the attitude I am talking about?

Go onto M$ NG's and see what most of these cloned M$ MVP's say when
SP2 brings a system to its knees. "Well, your system must have
problems" or "your system is incompatible with SP2" or other sorted
displays of M$ bull. Never does it ever enter their cloned little
brains that Hey!, the system/software was running just fine before
SP2, then it must be SP2 that was not compatible with the
system/software instead of the system/software not being compatible
with SP2. And..... If you point that obvious observation out to
them, then get ready for a good bucket of M$ flaming and character
assassination coming back at you. Then after you complain about the
personal attacks, then come back and say "what attacks" even when
quoting the actual attack.

If you developed a piece of software and when putting it on the
market, found that it brought a big amount of systems to their knees,
do you think the public would buy the argument that it was the fault
of their systems, systems that were already running just fine? You
could if you had a bunch of mindless clones (M$ calls them MVPs) out
their trying to brain wash an already easily manipulated public into
thinking the whole mess was their fault and the faults of their sorry
systems.

10 to 1 some M$ MVP will lurk by here and jump all over this message.
They will first misquote what was said, then lie about misquoting even
when quoting what was misquoted in their attack. Then they will tell
you that your system is at fault for running just fines before SP2 and
not after SP2 because SP2 is M$ and M$ is their God of Gods.

The best advice I read about installing SP2 on systems that SP2 was
incompatible with (M$ calls if systems that are incompatible with
SP2), is to do a complete system restore and load ONLY XP. If other
software applications are loaded automatically with your specific
restoration process, then uninstall them. All you should have
installed, loaded and running is XP and whatever drivers are needed
for your system to function at the most basic level. Then, install
the dreaded SP2 update and see if it takes. If the system blows, then
SP2 is not compatible with your already running system (M$ calls it
your system not being compatible with SP2).

Remember, when SP2 was first thrown on the public, Corporate HQ of IBM
and the US DOD sent notices out to all involved in their higher
echelon that SP2 was to NOT be attempted. They didn't want their
networks brought to their knees and when it comes to the DOD, neither
do we. I don't know about IBM Corporate now but an associate that
still works with DOD says that most of their high level nets are still
not running SP2.

According to him, they already have On-Property M$ reps subcontracted
to supply 24/7 hands on systems maintenance. They instructed these M$
Reps to do SP2 upgrades to systems on some Pentagon nets one computer
at a time. They had so many failures at the start that they halted
any further attempts on the rest of the systems. On the systems that
SP2 brought down in the initial try to install SP2, he said that the
M$ reps had no idea why on about half of those systems and could not
get SP2 to take no matter what. In other words, not even M$ knew why
on half the failed SP2 attempts.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 14, 2005 11:18:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

"WDS" <WDS@reply.via.newsgroup.only> wrote in message
news:h5PFd.14215$w62.154@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>I don't know if this problem is common to these machines but I had the same
> experience with my 500S, in September '04, when I tried updating to SP2
> from
> Microsoft's CD. Twice, after the install, my only solution was to
> reformat.
> I spent several hours on the phone with Gateway and was very impressed
> with
> their help. Even after being raised to higher levels of support, their
> only
> solution was to reformat and bring my updates back to SP1 status. After
> doing that, I installed all further updates with the exception of SP2.
> That's where I stand today and I have never had another problem. I will
> never install SP2 on this machine.
>
> It's interesting that after speaking to several reps at Gateway, my
> problem
> was not unique. They blamed Microsoft and in turn Microsoft was blaming
> them, as well as Dell, HP, etc. for these install problems. I was offered
> another option whereby if I x'ed & o'ed the drive, a higher level of
> support
> would call me back and go through the entire install process. The only
> problem was I would be put on a wait list and I probably would not hear
> from
> anyone for 10-14 days. This level of support was only dealing with
> problems
> with the SP2 install. This meant I would be without use of the computer
> during this time. My decision was, I'll stick with SP1. Case closed!
>
> I bought this computer in February '02. I have always kept up with all
> driver updates, Windows updates, virus updates, etc. The only thing I have
> never gone near is the BIOS updates. I never had a problem before this and
> never had to call Gateway before this. The whole experience was very
> frustrating. In answer to your final question the only thing you are
> missing
> is the SP2 update and I'm living happily without it!
>
> 500S P4 1.8 512MB
>

<snip>

WDS,

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'm not 'blaming' the machines as both
are solid systems with a lot to like. The first 500S I experienced this
problem with I dismissed as a fluke or perhaps some quirky piece of hardware
in that particular system. So much so that it took me a bit to realize that
it was SP2 that had crashed the second 500S (before the owner dropped it off
to me) 8 weeks later.

I, not unlike you, have updated the machines fully to SP1a with all security
updates and have 'turned off' the SP2 auto/notify/download in WinUpdate, and
informed both owners that they're not to bring it down or install it.

Had I not attempted the SP2 install immediately after clean XP installs I
would've likely placed the blame on some other piece of software.

These are the only machines that've experienced this kind of problem that
I've personally seen - granted, out of only about 3 dozen that I've updated.
As the other poster noted, there are plenty of other systems (home and
corporate) that don't like SP2 as well.

Thanks again,

Stew
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 7:06:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Great rant! Couldn't have ranted better myself! I agree completely. Today I
just rolled back a relatively new Dell Centrino-powered notebook to SP1, because
it got all hosed up by SP2 and could not connect to the internet. My suspicion
is that a computer needs to be absolutely clean and free of viruses, malware,
spyware and other nasties to have a snowball's chance in hell of working with
SP2. I will also guess that there was much discussion in the corridors of
Redmond about how to con more people into using SP2, and that Microbloat's
recent acquisition of Giant anti-spyware and some threat removal tools is an
attempt to paint a picture (caricature? cartoon?) of a company that has taken
security and reliability to heart. Horsefeathers! ... Ben Myers

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:26:58 GMT, ".@." <.@.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:40:45 GMT, "WDS" <WDS@reply.via.newsgroup.only>
>wrote:
>
>>I don't know if this problem is common to these machines
>
>The SP2 Abortion is a common cause of system destruction to many
>systems and is not just brand, chipset, etc. specific. M$ tech
>themselves have been quoted as telling crashed system owners that they
>just don't know why SP2 will not work with their system.
>
>The biggest problem is an arrogant attitude by M$ and those cloned
>little mouthpieces of theirs out there running around trying to put a
>warm fuzzy face on SP2. M$ and those MVP clones keep pushing their
>idea that they put a piece of software out on the market and if
>existing systems that are already running just fine crash because of
>their upgrade, then it is the system's fault, not the upgrade. If
>existing software already on the market that is and has been running
>just fine fails with the installation of SP2, then the fault is the
>existing software that was already running just fine, NOT SP2. See
>the attitude I am talking about?
>
>Go onto M$ NG's and see what most of these cloned M$ MVP's say when
>SP2 brings a system to its knees. "Well, your system must have
>problems" or "your system is incompatible with SP2" or other sorted
>displays of M$ bull. Never does it ever enter their cloned little
>brains that Hey!, the system/software was running just fine before
>SP2, then it must be SP2 that was not compatible with the
>system/software instead of the system/software not being compatible
>with SP2. And..... If you point that obvious observation out to
>them, then get ready for a good bucket of M$ flaming and character
>assassination coming back at you. Then after you complain about the
>personal attacks, then come back and say "what attacks" even when
>quoting the actual attack.
>
>If you developed a piece of software and when putting it on the
>market, found that it brought a big amount of systems to their knees,
>do you think the public would buy the argument that it was the fault
>of their systems, systems that were already running just fine? You
>could if you had a bunch of mindless clones (M$ calls them MVPs) out
>their trying to brain wash an already easily manipulated public into
>thinking the whole mess was their fault and the faults of their sorry
>systems.
>
>10 to 1 some M$ MVP will lurk by here and jump all over this message.
>They will first misquote what was said, then lie about misquoting even
>when quoting what was misquoted in their attack. Then they will tell
>you that your system is at fault for running just fines before SP2 and
>not after SP2 because SP2 is M$ and M$ is their God of Gods.
>
>The best advice I read about installing SP2 on systems that SP2 was
>incompatible with (M$ calls if systems that are incompatible with
>SP2), is to do a complete system restore and load ONLY XP. If other
>software applications are loaded automatically with your specific
>restoration process, then uninstall them. All you should have
>installed, loaded and running is XP and whatever drivers are needed
>for your system to function at the most basic level. Then, install
>the dreaded SP2 update and see if it takes. If the system blows, then
>SP2 is not compatible with your already running system (M$ calls it
>your system not being compatible with SP2).
>
>Remember, when SP2 was first thrown on the public, Corporate HQ of IBM
>and the US DOD sent notices out to all involved in their higher
>echelon that SP2 was to NOT be attempted. They didn't want their
>networks brought to their knees and when it comes to the DOD, neither
>do we. I don't know about IBM Corporate now but an associate that
>still works with DOD says that most of their high level nets are still
>not running SP2.
>
>According to him, they already have On-Property M$ reps subcontracted
>to supply 24/7 hands on systems maintenance. They instructed these M$
>Reps to do SP2 upgrades to systems on some Pentagon nets one computer
>at a time. They had so many failures at the start that they halted
>any further attempts on the rest of the systems. On the systems that
>SP2 brought down in the initial try to install SP2, he said that the
>M$ reps had no idea why on about half of those systems and could not
>get SP2 to take no matter what. In other words, not even M$ knew why
>on half the failed SP2 attempts.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 3:09:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

....Partial message deleted
> The best advice I read about installing SP2 on systems that SP2 was
> incompatible with (M$ calls if systems that are incompatible with
> SP2), is to do a complete system restore and load ONLY XP. If other
> software applications are loaded automatically with your specific
> restoration process, then uninstall them. All you should have
> installed, loaded and running is XP and whatever drivers are needed
> for your system to function at the most basic level. Then, install
> the dreaded SP2 update and see if it takes. If the system blows, then
> SP2 is not compatible with your already running system (M$ calls it
> your system not being compatible with SP2).
>
Yet your only option to restore your drive is to use the system restore
supplied by the vendor. I was told by more than one place that Microsoft
requires the restore image to protect their software. Therefore you must
install all the programs that are in the image. I ended up purchasing the
windows media edition (which came on my computer) software so I can install
the operating system only, then add what I want.
I know it sounds like I am beating a dead horse but this situation, that
most companies are going to, is very annoying to me.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 10:52:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

"Pam" <pliggett@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
news:eK7Gd.3412$re1.1611@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> ...Partial message deleted
>> The best advice I read about installing SP2 on systems that SP2 was
>> incompatible with (M$ calls if systems that are incompatible with
>> SP2), is to do a complete system restore and load ONLY XP. If other
>> software applications are loaded automatically with your specific
>> restoration process, then uninstall them. All you should have
>> installed, loaded and running is XP and whatever drivers are needed
>> for your system to function at the most basic level. Then, install
>> the dreaded SP2 update and see if it takes. If the system blows, then
>> SP2 is not compatible with your already running system (M$ calls it
>> your system not being compatible with SP2).
>>
> Yet your only option to restore your drive is to use the system restore
> supplied by the vendor. I was told by more than one place that Microsoft
> requires the restore image to protect their software. Therefore you must
> install all the programs that are in the image. I ended up purchasing the
> windows media edition (which came on my computer) software so I can
> install the operating system only, then add what I want.
> I know it sounds like I am beating a dead horse but this situation, that
> most companies are going to, is very annoying to me.
>
>


These particular (500S) systems each had a Gateway-badged OS (only) CD of XP
Home, so additional image bloatware was not a concern.

That said, both discs are pre-SP1, so virtually ALL WinUpdates have to be
brought down - consider that for the remaining small minority out there
still using dialup.....ouch.

The reboots are frequent enough using broadband.


Stew
January 18, 2005 2:47:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 04:06:45 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

>My suspicion
>is that a computer needs to be absolutely clean and free of viruses, malware,
>spyware and other nasties to have a snowball's chance in hell of working with
>SP2.

Not a suspicion but pure fact. They even say this on one of their
kazillion of info pages on their site for those that would have
specifically been trying to find anything on it. HOWEVER!!!!! we
must remember that those fools set this whole thing up at first to be
automatically downloaded and installed by all those out there that had
the misfortune of having their M$ update options set as such (I think
it is set that way by default). So all these mom and pop computers
out there that were covered up with spyware, adware, a virus or two
here and there and a few trojans thrown in to keep it level.... well
they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell when this nasty thing
installed on their systems behind their backs. They don't keep up
with what's current, they don't know what a NG is and they don't read
computer or trade mags. They just bought this thing to send email to
the kids, balance the check book and keep up with their pork futures.
Then Big Bill came along and stuck a big (probably little) hard one
right in their arse and they didn't even get a kiss after all was said
and done.

Story on AM Tech Talk show about some people who's computers just quit
working and they just turned them off and stuck them in the closet and
gave up on computers. Later, problem was found to be that SP2 had
been put on their computers via the auto-update and bombed there
systems out. They had no idea what had happened much less what SP2
was. They just thought it was the usual thing about computers are
good for a year or two and then blow up by design or something like
that.

Did you see the look on that fools face when they were demonstrating
the new media player at some convention and the system locked up HARD.
If they still had a blue screen of death, it would have been radiating
blue all over the place. And don't be fooled because you don't see
the Blue Screen of Death any more. The reasons for the Blue Screen of
Death are still there, they just did away with the blue screen because
of all the hype it was getting. You know... Windoze = Blue Screen of
Death thingy.....

I was lucky and got by mostly unscaved on my two systems. Lost the
ability for the windows time sync to connect but I use AtomicTimer to
do that for me and the other system locked me out for a few days until
I got a REG fix to get around that. Stuff Mom and Pop have no idea
about who gave up and threw the box away or took it into a repair shop
and paid a Minimum of $35/hr to fix Big Bill's global blunder.

BTW, for anyone that wants to upgrade their XP installation CD to
XP-SP2, you can do what is called SlipStreaming a new bootable CD.
The instructions are
at:http://www.theeldergeek.com/slipstreamed_xpsp2_cd.htm

I made one each for my desktop and laptop. Since I do a complete
restoration/reinstallation on both at least once/year, this will save
me some time.

Regards,
!