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power on failure

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Last response: in Computer Brands
January 22, 2005 7:51:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.

When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the computer
behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged into
the USB ports, for these tests.

Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.

More about : power failure

Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 22, 2005 9:58:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Try reseating everything - memory, cards, CPU, etc.


Al wrote:
> Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.
>
> When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
> power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
> and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the computer
> behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged into
> the USB ports, for these tests.
>
> Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
> result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 22, 2005 5:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Could also be a failed capacitor on the motherboard. MSI Pentium III boards
were among those manufactured with substandard capacitors... Ben Myers

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 06:58:37 -0500, "Edward J. Neth" <ejn63@netscape.net> wrote:

>Try reseating everything - memory, cards, CPU, etc.
>
>
>Al wrote:
>> Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.
>>
>> When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
>> power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
>> and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the computer
>> behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged into
>> the USB ports, for these tests.
>>
>> Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
>> result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.
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Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 22, 2005 10:09:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Somone else mentioned a failed capacitor and this is the usual cause.
Look for a capacitor(s) with a buldged out top, usually with a dark
stain on top as well. I have seen several of these. Usually on the
large capacitors near the processor.

Despite the fact that these boards are multi laryered it is not too
hard to change these out . Requires someone with advanced, but not
genius ability. My friend did his, and he hasn't soldered in years.

I had a recent failure on my sister's computer with identical problem
as yours, only fan would turn much less, before stopping.

It was under waranty & I sent it away. There was no report of nature
of repair, only that the bios was flashed to newest version.
This suggests that the bios chip was changed. There was no phyisical
evidence of repair on the boord and there was no sign of capacitor
damage before repair.
This was on an early Asus P4 board.
A replacement bd was only about $75 CAN wholesale, but I see similar
prices at Newegg etc.

Good luck


On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:51:33 GMT, Al <none@no.com> wrote:

>Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.
>
>When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
>power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
>and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the computer
>behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged into
>the USB ports, for these tests.
>
>Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
>result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 22, 2005 11:03:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

The same MSI boards are readily available on eBay as surplus new (or unused,
depending on how you look at these things) for less than $50. Given the choice
between buying a replacement or de-soldering blown caps and re-soldering caps of
exactly the same specifications, I think I would opt for buying a replacement.
Getting the same caps is a challenge outweighed only by the difficulty of
de-soldering, re-soldering, and extensive post-operative testing. But then, I
am not known for my adeptness with a soldering iron, and I am known for finding
the quickest path to a problem resolution... Ben Myers

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:09:10 GMT, gg <noway@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Somone else mentioned a failed capacitor and this is the usual cause.
>Look for a capacitor(s) with a buldged out top, usually with a dark
>stain on top as well. I have seen several of these. Usually on the
>large capacitors near the processor.
>
>Despite the fact that these boards are multi laryered it is not too
>hard to change these out . Requires someone with advanced, but not
>genius ability. My friend did his, and he hasn't soldered in years.
>
>I had a recent failure on my sister's computer with identical problem
>as yours, only fan would turn much less, before stopping.
>
>It was under waranty & I sent it away. There was no report of nature
>of repair, only that the bios was flashed to newest version.
>This suggests that the bios chip was changed. There was no phyisical
>evidence of repair on the boord and there was no sign of capacitor
>damage before repair.
>This was on an early Asus P4 board.
>A replacement bd was only about $75 CAN wholesale, but I see similar
>prices at Newegg etc.
>
>Good luck
>
>
>On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:51:33 GMT, Al <none@no.com> wrote:
>
>>Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.
>>
>>When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
>>power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
>>and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the computer
>>behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged into
>>the USB ports, for these tests.
>>
>>Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
>>result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 23, 2005 12:07:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Listen to Ed and Ben, they're always right. (sorry guys, take it when it's
offered!)
<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:41f2af05.17862120@nntp.charter.net...
> The same MSI boards are readily available on eBay as surplus new (or
unused,
> depending on how you look at these things) for less than $50. Given the
choice
> between buying a replacement or de-soldering blown caps and re-soldering
caps of
> exactly the same specifications, I think I would opt for buying a
replacement.
> Getting the same caps is a challenge outweighed only by the difficulty of
> de-soldering, re-soldering, and extensive post-operative testing. But
then, I
> am not known for my adeptness with a soldering iron, and I am known for
finding
> the quickest path to a problem resolution... Ben Myers
>
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:09:10 GMT, gg <noway@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Somone else mentioned a failed capacitor and this is the usual cause.
> >Look for a capacitor(s) with a buldged out top, usually with a dark
> >stain on top as well. I have seen several of these. Usually on the
> >large capacitors near the processor.
> >
> >Despite the fact that these boards are multi laryered it is not too
> >hard to change these out . Requires someone with advanced, but not
> >genius ability. My friend did his, and he hasn't soldered in years.
> >
> >I had a recent failure on my sister's computer with identical problem
> >as yours, only fan would turn much less, before stopping.
> >
> >It was under waranty & I sent it away. There was no report of nature
> >of repair, only that the bios was flashed to newest version.
> >This suggests that the bios chip was changed. There was no phyisical
> >evidence of repair on the boord and there was no sign of capacitor
> >damage before repair.
> >This was on an early Asus P4 board.
> >A replacement bd was only about $75 CAN wholesale, but I see similar
> >prices at Newegg etc.
> >
> >Good luck
> >
> >
> >On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:51:33 GMT, Al <none@no.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.
> >>
> >>When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
> >>power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
> >>and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the
computer
> >>behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged
into
> >>the USB ports, for these tests.
> >>
> >>Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
> >>result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.
> >
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 23, 2005 1:18:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Unfortunately, the boards have the same faulty capacitors as the
originals do, so if they're old-stock, or used, they're likely to fail
in the same way, and given the age and deterioration of the electrolyte
in the caps over time (or use), probably sooner than the original.

There are people who will replace the caps for the same $50 or so with a
guarantee (http://www.motherboardrepair.com) - given that except for the
faulty caps, the boards are fine, I'd take that route before replacing
with another board containing faulty caps.

If you're willing to do some case modification, there are some
manufacturers whose boards were not affected by the cap issues - ASUS,
among them.


Ben Myers wrote:
> The same MSI boards are readily available on eBay as surplus new (or unused,
> depending on how you look at these things) for less than $50. Given the choice
> between buying a replacement or de-soldering blown caps and re-soldering caps of
> exactly the same specifications, I think I would opt for buying a replacement.
> Getting the same caps is a challenge outweighed only by the difficulty of
> de-soldering, re-soldering, and extensive post-operative testing. But then, I
> am not known for my adeptness with a soldering iron, and I am known for finding
> the quickest path to a problem resolution... Ben Myers
>
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:09:10 GMT, gg <noway@hotmail.com> wrote:
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 23, 2005 8:15:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

You're right about the faulty caps on any of the MSI boards. On balance, I
think that the best solution is another brand of replacement motherboard.

.... Ben Myers

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:18:33 -0500, "Edward J. Neth" <ejn63@netscape.net> wrote:

>Unfortunately, the boards have the same faulty capacitors as the
>originals do, so if they're old-stock, or used, they're likely to fail
>in the same way, and given the age and deterioration of the electrolyte
>in the caps over time (or use), probably sooner than the original.
>
>There are people who will replace the caps for the same $50 or so with a
>guarantee (http://www.motherboardrepair.com) - given that except for the
>faulty caps, the boards are fine, I'd take that route before replacing
>with another board containing faulty caps.
>
>If you're willing to do some case modification, there are some
>manufacturers whose boards were not affected by the cap issues - ASUS,
>among them.
>
>
>Ben Myers wrote:
>> The same MSI boards are readily available on eBay as surplus new (or unused,
>> depending on how you look at these things) for less than $50. Given the choice
>> between buying a replacement or de-soldering blown caps and re-soldering caps of
>> exactly the same specifications, I think I would opt for buying a replacement.
>> Getting the same caps is a challenge outweighed only by the difficulty of
>> de-soldering, re-soldering, and extensive post-operative testing. But then, I
>> am not known for my adeptness with a soldering iron, and I am known for finding
>> the quickest path to a problem resolution... Ben Myers
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:09:10 GMT, gg <noway@hotmail.com> wrote:
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 24, 2005 2:00:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Al wrote:

> Gateway Essential 950c, FlexATX MB and SFX PSU. No added cards.
>
> When I press the power switch, it will only come on momentarily - the
> power indicator light is yellow and the PS fan spins a couple of times,
> and that's it. I tried another working ATX power supply, and the computer
> behaves exactly the same. No printer, mouse, keyboard etc is plugged into
> the USB ports, for these tests.
>
> Is there some common cause, beside the power supply, that is known to
> result in this failure in Gateways? Thanks.

An improper ground from a misaligned mounting screw or contact with the
case could cause similar behavior.
January 29, 2005 9:10:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:18:33 -0500, "Edward J. Neth" <ejn63@netscape.net>
wrote:

yes, it did turn out to be bad Taiwanese caps, as in http://badcaps.net, so
it's been an education.

>There are people who will replace the caps for the same $50 or so with a
>guarantee (http://www.motherboardrepair.com) - given that except for the
>faulty caps, the boards are fine,

yes, that is, if the bad caps didn't result in damage to other components. And
there's the rub: I can't find suitable caps locally (i.e., low ESR, 105
Celsius, and at or somewhat above capacitance value). Ordering online means
you're generally paying big shipping costs, which kill you on a small
purchase.

5 were bulged, and I wanted to replace those to see if I could start, then
replace all others >1000uF if I could startup. I've already removed the bad
caps.

So now I have to decide whether to spend maybe $30+ on caps, which might not
result in a running computer - or else try find a new flex board for this
machine with a cpu/ram upgrade (please see new thread).

>I'd take that route before replacing
>with another board containing faulty caps.

thanks to all for the replies.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 29, 2005 10:01:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

The combination of $30 for replacement caps and the time and effort to unsolder
the bad ones and solder in the new ones would quickly get me thinking of other
possibilities. You have no guarantee that the board will work properly. Some
other components could have been taken out when the caps began to bulge.

The flex ATX form factor offers limited choices for upgrades. I've seen an Asus
Pentium 4 flex ATX board, and Asus stuff is pretty good.

Measure the dimensions inside the computer case to see whether a microATX board
will fit. MicroATX is a little larger and typically offers more expansion
(slots, memory, IDE connectors) than flex. IBM's flex ATX cases fall just short
of the dimensions needed to take a microATX board, but maybe Gateway's flex case
is a little bigger? ... Ben Myers

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:10:47 GMT, none@no.com (Al) wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:18:33 -0500, "Edward J. Neth" <ejn63@netscape.net>
>wrote:
>
>yes, it did turn out to be bad Taiwanese caps, as in http://badcaps.net, so
>it's been an education.
>
>>There are people who will replace the caps for the same $50 or so with a
>>guarantee (http://www.motherboardrepair.com) - given that except for the
>>faulty caps, the boards are fine,
>
>yes, that is, if the bad caps didn't result in damage to other components. And
>there's the rub: I can't find suitable caps locally (i.e., low ESR, 105
>Celsius, and at or somewhat above capacitance value). Ordering online means
>you're generally paying big shipping costs, which kill you on a small
>purchase.
>
>5 were bulged, and I wanted to replace those to see if I could start, then
>replace all others >1000uF if I could startup. I've already removed the bad
>caps.
>
>So now I have to decide whether to spend maybe $30+ on caps, which might not
>result in a running computer - or else try find a new flex board for this
>machine with a cpu/ram upgrade (please see new thread).
>
>>I'd take that route before replacing
>>with another board containing faulty caps.
>
>thanks to all for the replies.
January 29, 2005 11:58:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:01:59 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

>Measure the dimensions inside the computer case to see whether a microATX board
>will fit. MicroATX is a little larger and typically offers more expansion
>(slots, memory, IDE connectors) than flex. IBM's flex ATX cases fall just short
>of the dimensions needed to take a microATX board, but maybe Gateway's flex case
>is a little bigger?

Thanks, Ben. The available space inside the case measures 7 3/4" by 9" (The
9" is along the back side, the 7 3/4" is front-to-back.)

This is a kind of flip-top model, where the brackets for the drives hinge up
out of the way for access to the MB. When flipped down, the drive brackets
latch down onto a standing piece of case metal. That piece of standing metal
is what limits the size of any MB to be put in there. But, I could conceivably
undercut some of that metal away and still leave the latching function - and
accomodate maybe an inch or so more, to 9x9"

Seen sidewise, from the PSU side, something like this:


Xooooooooooooooooo
Xooooooooooooooooo <---- drive brackets flipped down
X
X XXXXX
X X <---- the standing metal
X X
X X ================================== <---- MB (x-section)
X X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <---- 'floor' of the case


However, when flipped down, the drive brackets also limit the height of any MB
that might go in there.

I've just read that the mounting holes shoud be the same for micro and flex,
so that woud be break if it turns out to be true.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
January 30, 2005 12:19:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000 (More info?)

Yes, the mounting holes are the same for flex and micro ATX boards. There are
some smallish microATX boards which may fit.

Intel made a D810EMO flexATX board, Socket 370, but extremely limited with only
a single DIMM socket and no slots. That one may work for you... Ben Myers

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:58:56 GMT, none@no.com (Al) wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:01:59 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
>Myers) wrote:
>
>>Measure the dimensions inside the computer case to see whether a microATX board
>>will fit. MicroATX is a little larger and typically offers more expansion
>>(slots, memory, IDE connectors) than flex. IBM's flex ATX cases fall just short
>>of the dimensions needed to take a microATX board, but maybe Gateway's flex case
>>is a little bigger?
>
>Thanks, Ben. The available space inside the case measures 7 3/4" by 9" (The
>9" is along the back side, the 7 3/4" is front-to-back.)
>
>This is a kind of flip-top model, where the brackets for the drives hinge up
>out of the way for access to the MB. When flipped down, the drive brackets
>latch down onto a standing piece of case metal. That piece of standing metal
>is what limits the size of any MB to be put in there. But, I could conceivably
>undercut some of that metal away and still leave the latching function - and
>accomodate maybe an inch or so more, to 9x9"
>
>Seen sidewise, from the PSU side, something like this:
>
>
>Xooooooooooooooooo
>Xooooooooooooooooo <---- drive brackets flipped down
>X
>X XXXXX
>X X <---- the standing metal
>X X
>X X ================================== <---- MB (x-section)
>X X
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <---- 'floor' of the case
>
>
>However, when flipped down, the drive brackets also limit the height of any MB
>that might go in there.
>
>I've just read that the mounting holes shoud be the same for micro and flex,
>so that woud be break if it turns out to be true.