Vertical Sync In Windows

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Jonathan Trengrove wrote:

> Having recently had the pleasure of using Mac OS X it made me realise how
> much tearing of the native Windows 2D display i've tolerated for so long.
>
> I'm using a Geforce 4 Ti4600 at 1024x768x32 @ 100hz and there seems to be no
> way of ensuring that the display within Windows XP is vertically
> synchronised at all times. The vertical tearing which occurs is most
> noticable on Flash animation, when moving windows, or when browsing on
> websites.
>
> Vsync is on for both Direct3D and OpenGL but neither obviously effects
> windows. Anyone have any idea how I can solve this? Interestingly the
> tearing is lots of smaller choppier tears at 60hz-85hz on my monitor, but at
> 100hz the tear is an obvious long vertical "smooth" tear that works its way
> up the monitor accentuating the exact difference in timing which is occuring
> between the video output and the CRT refresh rate. This makes me think there
> is a master setting that the video card is outputting and its simply a case
> of finding that and setting the refresh rate to it to stop the tearing (I
> can easily set manual specific refresh values using Powerstrip).
>
> Any reply is appreciated in fixing this, most PCs i've ever seen exhibit
> this problem and its unsightly once you realise what to look for.
>
> If its simply a driver problem, does anyone have an email address for nVidia
> so I can request the addition of a Vsync toggle for windows into the next
> forceware edition?
>
> Cheers
> Jonathan
>
>

In all my years of "Windows expertise" (whatever that is), I've never
thought about this, but always noticed it. For me, I've always just set
the highest refresh rate possible, assuming VSync had to be on for the
GDI functions. I've seen different applications that can force VSync in
GDI mode, but never anything for Windows itself.

It might be a windowing limitation, but when dropping into Safe Mode or
with a VGA driver, redraws seem to be perfect, without tearing.

Linux window managers never seem to have this problem, or at least I've
not seen it in Fedora.

I'll do some looking around, but in the meantime, try lowering the
Graphics Acceleration slider down a notch or two. This should only
affect GDI functions and cursor handling.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

deimos wrote:

> Jonathan Trengrove wrote:
>
>> Having recently had the pleasure of using Mac OS X it made me realise how
>> much tearing of the native Windows 2D display i've tolerated for so long.
>>
>> I'm using a Geforce 4 Ti4600 at 1024x768x32 @ 100hz and there seems to
>> be no
>> way of ensuring that the display within Windows XP is vertically
>> synchronised at all times. The vertical tearing which occurs is most
>> noticable on Flash animation, when moving windows, or when browsing on
>> websites.
>>
>> Vsync is on for both Direct3D and OpenGL but neither obviously effects
>> windows. Anyone have any idea how I can solve this? Interestingly the
>> tearing is lots of smaller choppier tears at 60hz-85hz on my monitor,
>> but at
>> 100hz the tear is an obvious long vertical "smooth" tear that works
>> its way
>> up the monitor accentuating the exact difference in timing which is
>> occuring
>> between the video output and the CRT refresh rate. This makes me think
>> there
>> is a master setting that the video card is outputting and its simply a
>> case
>> of finding that and setting the refresh rate to it to stop the tearing (I
>> can easily set manual specific refresh values using Powerstrip).
>>
>> Any reply is appreciated in fixing this, most PCs i've ever seen exhibit
>> this problem and its unsightly once you realise what to look for.
>>
>> If its simply a driver problem, does anyone have an email address for
>> nVidia
>> so I can request the addition of a Vsync toggle for windows into the next
>> forceware edition?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>
> In all my years of "Windows expertise" (whatever that is), I've never
> thought about this, but always noticed it. For me, I've always just set
> the highest refresh rate possible, assuming VSync had to be on for the
> GDI functions. I've seen different applications that can force VSync in
> GDI mode, but never anything for Windows itself.
>
> It might be a windowing limitation, but when dropping into Safe Mode or
> with a VGA driver, redraws seem to be perfect, without tearing.
>
> Linux window managers never seem to have this problem, or at least I've
> not seen it in Fedora.
>
> I'll do some looking around, but in the meantime, try lowering the
> Graphics Acceleration slider down a notch or two. This should only
> affect GDI functions and cursor handling.

Well, found out some more...

It's a feature  

GDI and GDI+ both draw to a single buffer. Yep, it's that bad.
Apparently Longhorn will fix this issue that's been around since Win95
and before.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"deimos" <deimos@localhost.net> wrote in message
news:2nu0hbF4gs97U1@uni-berlin.de...
> deimos wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Trengrove wrote:
> >
> >> Having recently had the pleasure of using Mac OS X it made me realise
how
> >> much tearing of the native Windows 2D display i've tolerated for so
long.
> >>
> >> I'm using a Geforce 4 Ti4600 at 1024x768x32 @ 100hz and there seems to
> >> be no
> >> way of ensuring that the display within Windows XP is vertically
> >> synchronised at all times. The vertical tearing which occurs is most
> >> noticable on Flash animation, when moving windows, or when browsing on
> >> websites.
> >>
> >> Vsync is on for both Direct3D and OpenGL but neither obviously effects
> >> windows. Anyone have any idea how I can solve this? Interestingly the
> >> tearing is lots of smaller choppier tears at 60hz-85hz on my monitor,
> >> but at
> >> 100hz the tear is an obvious long vertical "smooth" tear that works
> >> its way
> >> up the monitor accentuating the exact difference in timing which is
> >> occuring
> >> between the video output and the CRT refresh rate. This makes me think
> >> there
> >> is a master setting that the video card is outputting and its simply a
> >> case
> >> of finding that and setting the refresh rate to it to stop the tearing
(I
> >> can easily set manual specific refresh values using Powerstrip).
> >>
> >> Any reply is appreciated in fixing this, most PCs i've ever seen
exhibit
> >> this problem and its unsightly once you realise what to look for.
> >>
> >> If its simply a driver problem, does anyone have an email address for
> >> nVidia
> >> so I can request the addition of a Vsync toggle for windows into the
next
> >> forceware edition?
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Jonathan
> >>
> >>
> >
> > In all my years of "Windows expertise" (whatever that is), I've never
> > thought about this, but always noticed it. For me, I've always just set
> > the highest refresh rate possible, assuming VSync had to be on for the
> > GDI functions. I've seen different applications that can force VSync in
> > GDI mode, but never anything for Windows itself.
> >
> > It might be a windowing limitation, but when dropping into Safe Mode or
> > with a VGA driver, redraws seem to be perfect, without tearing.
> >
> > Linux window managers never seem to have this problem, or at least I've
> > not seen it in Fedora.
> >
> > I'll do some looking around, but in the meantime, try lowering the
> > Graphics Acceleration slider down a notch or two. This should only
> > affect GDI functions and cursor handling.
>
> Well, found out some more...
>
> It's a feature  
>
> GDI and GDI+ both draw to a single buffer. Yep, it's that bad.
> Apparently Longhorn will fix this issue that's been around since Win95
> and before.

Cheers for the information!

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Jonathan Trengrove wrote:
> Having recently had the pleasure of using Mac OS X it made me realise how
> much tearing of the native Windows 2D display i've tolerated for so long.
>
> I'm using a Geforce 4 Ti4600 at 1024x768x32 @ 100hz and there seems to be no
> way of ensuring that the display within Windows XP is vertically
> synchronised at all times. The vertical tearing which occurs is most
> noticable on Flash animation, when moving windows, or when browsing on
> websites.
>
> Vsync is on for both Direct3D and OpenGL but neither obviously effects
> windows. Anyone have any idea how I can solve this? Interestingly the
> tearing is lots of smaller choppier tears at 60hz-85hz on my monitor, but at
> 100hz the tear is an obvious long vertical "smooth" tear that works its way
> up the monitor accentuating the exact difference in timing which is occuring
> between the video output and the CRT refresh rate. This makes me think there
> is a master setting that the video card is outputting and its simply a case
> of finding that and setting the refresh rate to it to stop the tearing (I
> can easily set manual specific refresh values using Powerstrip).
>
> Any reply is appreciated in fixing this, most PCs i've ever seen exhibit
> this problem and its unsightly once you realise what to look for.
>
> If its simply a driver problem, does anyone have an email address for nVidia
> so I can request the addition of a Vsync toggle for windows into the next
> forceware edition?
>
> Cheers
> Jonathan
>
>

The refresh rate is locked, it is locked to the refresh rate you specify
in Advanced Options/Monitor or in DXDiagnostics.. Yes it can be ugly at
60Hz and nasty on the eyes. That is what you get when you don't install
the drivers for your monitor or configure it to use the correct refresh
rates or colour options.

You don't get this problem as much on a Mac as they use a standard range
of monitors. Start throwing all sorts of monitors on a Mac and it is
sure to have the exact same problem when it finds something it dosn't
recognize.

I wouldn't call using a Mac a pleasure, ever seen the email clients
available? junk with poor support for Exchange and shall I mention
Notes? Before you say Eudora is great, ever support it? dumb thing can't
sort out IMAPI from POP and still ruins preferences till this day.

Cheers Minotaur (8*

Five years on and I can't believe this post is still so high up on Google when searching for my name! I agree, using Mac's is not a pleasure. I played about with a Hackintosh for a while, it was horrible. Windows XP never felt so good upon returning back.

Cheers
Jonathan

Changed my mind about this. Mac OS Ten is where to be  

JT