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23" or 30" display?

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  • Nvidia
  • DVI
  • Dual Link Dvi
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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Anonymous
August 10, 2004 8:19:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Hello,

I simply love the new Apple displays (23" at 1920x1200 and 30" at 2560x1600)
and planning to get one. Obviously I'll also replace my old GF4400TI with
something shinier - the question is, what should I get?

The 23" might or might not work with most DVI cards - AFAIK 1920x1200 is
outside of the normal DVI spec. Most 6800 cards claim up to 1600x1200 via
the DVI connector.

For the 30" screen I'd definitely need a dual-link DVI card. Not one with
two DVI outputs - some manufacturers like to call their dual-DVI-out cards
incorrectly dual-link, but one with an actual dual-link DVI connector where
all 24 pins are in use. There are a few out there for the PC but they're
high-end workstation cards, not really optimized for DX9 and suffer in Doom
3 compared to a 6800. Apple also has its new dual-link 6800 but
unfortunately that will not work in a Windows box.

So I have questions:

1. Does anyone use any 6800 (or 5900+) card via DVI in 1920x1200 or higher?
(If yes, what card? What drivers?) Any recommended models? Are there driver
issues? Or does it just work out of the box?

2. Does anyone know of a 5900+ or 6800 card with a real dual-link DVI
connector? I'd love to go for the 30" Apple display, but I want to play
games on it occasionally so a Quadro or something similar is not an option.

Thanks in advance!

Marton

More about : display

Anonymous
August 10, 2004 3:33:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Not a recommendation but warning: The apple displays does not allow you to
go into BIOS or any dos screens if you need to......
"Marton Anka" <marton at 03am dot com> wrote in message
news:41183079$0$73762$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Hello,
>
> I simply love the new Apple displays (23" at 1920x1200 and 30" at
> 2560x1600) and planning to get one. Obviously I'll also replace my old
> GF4400TI with something shinier - the question is, what should I get?
>
> The 23" might or might not work with most DVI cards - AFAIK 1920x1200 is
> outside of the normal DVI spec. Most 6800 cards claim up to 1600x1200 via
> the DVI connector.
>
> For the 30" screen I'd definitely need a dual-link DVI card. Not one with
> two DVI outputs - some manufacturers like to call their dual-DVI-out cards
> incorrectly dual-link, but one with an actual dual-link DVI connector
> where all 24 pins are in use. There are a few out there for the PC but
> they're high-end workstation cards, not really optimized for DX9 and
> suffer in Doom 3 compared to a 6800. Apple also has its new dual-link 6800
> but unfortunately that will not work in a Windows box.
>
> So I have questions:
>
> 1. Does anyone use any 6800 (or 5900+) card via DVI in 1920x1200 or
> higher? (If yes, what card? What drivers?) Any recommended models? Are
> there driver issues? Or does it just work out of the box?
>
> 2. Does anyone know of a 5900+ or 6800 card with a real dual-link DVI
> connector? I'd love to go for the 30" Apple display, but I want to play
> games on it occasionally so a Quadro or something similar is not an
> option.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Marton
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:12:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Marton Anka schrieb:
> For the 30" screen I'd definitely need a dual-link DVI card. Not one
with
> two DVI outputs - some manufacturers like to call their dual-DVI-out cards
> incorrectly dual-link, but one with an actual dual-link DVI connector where
> all 24 pins are in use. There are a few out there for the PC but they're
> high-end workstation cards, not really optimized for DX9 and suffer in Doom
> 3 compared to a 6800. Apple also has its new dual-link 6800 but
> unfortunately that will not work in a Windows box.

Hi,

I´m plannning to buy the 30" for PC use too. There are a few PC Cards
available like the QuadroFX 3000 or 4000. The 6800 DDL "Mac Edition" is
in fact a Quadro FX 4000 without CAD optimization. ATI has released the
new FireGL X3-256, an AGP Card based on the X800Pro with DualLink DVI
support. I planned to buy the QuadroFX 3000 but now I will wait until
the X3-256 is available.
Performance: The QuadroFX 3000 is based on the FX5900U and performs
almost like his consumer pendant in Direct3D and OpenGL. QuadroFX 4000:
GeForce 6800U. FireGL X3-256: Radeon X800 Pro.

Denis
Related resources
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Marshall Lai schrieb:

> Not a recommendation but warning: The apple displays does not allow you to
> go into BIOS or any dos screens if you need to......

Not an issue with all videocards. It seems that most ATI Cards (but not
all, there are some users who have no problems) in combination with the
Cinema Displays can´t display these low res screens. There are nVidia
card owners at the apple forum who have no problem to see the boot
process with their Cinema Displays.

Denis
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:16:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Marton Anka wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I simply love the new Apple displays (23" at 1920x1200 and 30" at 2560x1600)
> and planning to get one. Obviously I'll also replace my old GF4400TI with
> something shinier - the question is, what should I get?
>
> The 23" might or might not work with most DVI cards - AFAIK 1920x1200 is
> outside of the normal DVI spec. Most 6800 cards claim up to 1600x1200 via
> the DVI connector.
>
> For the 30" screen I'd definitely need a dual-link DVI card. Not one with
> two DVI outputs - some manufacturers like to call their dual-DVI-out cards
> incorrectly dual-link, but one with an actual dual-link DVI connector where
> all 24 pins are in use. There are a few out there for the PC but they're
> high-end workstation cards, not really optimized for DX9 and suffer in Doom
> 3 compared to a 6800. Apple also has its new dual-link 6800 but
> unfortunately that will not work in a Windows box.
>
> So I have questions:
>
> 1. Does anyone use any 6800 (or 5900+) card via DVI in 1920x1200 or higher?
> (If yes, what card? What drivers?) Any recommended models? Are there driver
> issues? Or does it just work out of the box?

I used a BFG6800u OC with my Apple 23" HDTV Cinema, worked ine. The only
prob I had is that it wouldn't play Call of Duty in full screen,
1600x1200. When fs was checked,
it would map the pixels 1-to-1 to the left side of the screen, and you
could see your desktop on the right. At lower res, it would do fs.
Maybe this is cause CoD doesn't have a 1920x1200 option, or perhaps
cause it's uses the Quake3 engine. Ut2004 and Far Cry both run fs at
1920x1200. Question is, would Doom3 run fs at 1600x1200? I no longer
have the card, so can't test. However, I will be getting another 6800u
, I will have it thurs (Aug. 12).
I'll report back after I try D3.
Only thing to add is that the two DVI ports on the
BG work differently. One shows video immediately during post.
The other showed nothing until I was into windows.

Jeff B
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:19:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Marton Anka schrieb:
> The 23" might or might not work with most DVI cards - AFAIK 1920x1200 is
> outside of the normal DVI spec. Most 6800 cards claim up to 1600x1200 via
> the DVI connector.

With reduced blanking it is no problem to drive 1920x1200@60Hz via
SingleLink DVI. An other possibility is to lower the refresh rate.
That´s why I´m driving my SyncMaster 240T with 1920x1200@52Hz. No
problem at all.


Denis
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Denis Freund <denisfreund@cityweb.de> wrote in message news:<2ns00uF40nekU2@uni-berlin.de>...
> Marton Anka schrieb:
> > The 23" might or might not work with most DVI cards - AFAIK 1920x1200 is
> > outside of the normal DVI spec. Most 6800 cards claim up to 1600x1200 via
> > the DVI connector.
>
> With reduced blanking it is no problem to drive 1920x1200@60Hz via
> SingleLink DVI. An other possibility is to lower the refresh rate.
> That´s why I´m driving my SyncMaster 240T with 1920x1200@52Hz. No
> problem at all.
>
>
> Denis

Note the "outside of normal DVI spec." Still there are not really any
consumer cards that have dual link capability. I believe Nvidia will
have one in the next few months. Which means until then max
resolution on the 30" one is outside of possibility. Although maybe
there is some kind of mod if you want to run at like 15hz ;) 

Eric
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:22:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Marton Anka schrieb:
> The 23" might or might not work with most DVI cards - AFAIK
1920x1200 is
> outside of the normal DVI spec. Most 6800 cards claim up to 1600x1200 via
> the DVI connector.

With reduced blanking it is no problem to drive 1920x1200@60Hz via
SingleLink DVI. An other possibility is to lower the refresh rate.
That´s why I´m driving my SyncMaster 240T with 1920x1200@52Hz. No
problem at all.

BTW: The Apple 30" also won´t run with 2560x1600@60Hz because this would
need more bandwith than DL DVI can deliver (2x165MHz). It will run with
2560x1600@~50Hz.


Denis
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:42:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Jeff B schrieb:
> Maybe this is cause CoD doesn't have a 1920x1200 option, or perhaps
> cause it's uses the Quake3 engine. Ut2004 and Far Cry both run fs at
> 1920x1200. Question is, would Doom3 run fs at 1600x1200? I no longer
> have the card, so can't test. However, I will be getting another 6800u

No, CoD is no problem in 1920x1200 (tested it myself):

"First of all, if anyone wants to know how to run WideScreen this is how
you will want to do it for Doom3/Quake3 or any Quake3 engine based game.

1. Open up the config file for the appropriate game. For Doom 3 its
DoomConfig.cfg and for Quake 3 its q3config.cfg. Use a text editor like
wordpad to open it.

2. Edit line seta r_mode to show value of -1. seta r_mode "-1"

3. Edit line seta r_customWidth to show value of width: seta
r_customWidth "1920"

4. Edit line seta r_customHeight: seta r_customHeight "1200"

5. Last thing, when you load up the game, hit ` and Ctrl and Alt at the
same time to bring up the console menu, then type g_fov 120 (but you can
use any value to make it look right to you). I would suggest 100-130,
just try some and see how it looks."

The correction of the fov is very important (also in UT Engine based
game) because otherwise you see no improvement in visible surface and
suffer from distortion.

Denis
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:46:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Denis Freund schrieb:
> The correction of the fov is very important (also in UT Engine based
> game) because otherwise you see no improvement in visible surface and
> suffer from distortion.

edit: The FOV must be corrected in Farcry too (with a special tool):
Search for it here:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/phpBB2/

Denis
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 11:47:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Denis Freund wrote:
> Denis Freund schrieb:
>
>> The correction of the fov is very important (also in UT Engine based
>> game) because otherwise you see no improvement in visible surface and
>> suffer from distortion.
>
>
> edit: The FOV must be corrected in Farcry too (with a special tool):
> Search for it here:
> http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/phpBB2/
>
> Denis
>

The link took me to a forum, but there was no patch. Since I haven't
played FC or D3 yet, I'd like to know how to fix. Do you have
a link to the patch/tool?

Jeff B
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 2:23:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Thanks everyone for the responses!

So maybe I should be looking into an FX4000 and a 30" Apple. Close to $5000
though... pretty pricey - the 23" solution would only run about $2500.

Did I misunderstand something, or can I use the 30" monitor with a
single-link DVI connector at full resolution @ 50Hz?

I mean, 50Hz is not bad on an LCD... And I can always get a new video card
when one becomes available at a more reasonable price. Monitors last almost
forever (I've been using my ViewSonic for 5 years now) whereas videocards
get obsolete every year or so, if you want to stay at the high end.

-Marton
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:13:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Eric Witte schrieb:
> Note the "outside of normal DVI spec." Still there are not really any
> consumer cards that have dual link capability. I believe Nvidia will
> have one in the next few months. Which means until then max
> resolution on the 30" one is outside of possibility. Although maybe
> there is some kind of mod if you want to run at like 15hz ;) 

Well, DL DVI is full inside DVI spec and there are cards with DL DVI. I
think nVidia wants sell their QuadroFX series for the PC market, so they
won´t bring out a DL consumer card. The first samples of the 6800U had
DL DVI, but the manufacturers cut down one transmitter.

Denis
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:15:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Marton Anka schrieb:
> Did I misunderstand something, or can I use the 30" monitor with a
> single-link DVI connector at full resolution @ 50Hz?

No you will need DL DVI, but even this isn´t sufficient for
2560x1600@60Hz. So the display will run at ~50Hz with DL DVI. I think I
will get the Radeon X3 card for the screen.

Denis
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:19:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Eric Witte schrieb:
> Note the "outside of normal DVI spec." Still there are not really any
> consumer cards that have dual link capability. I believe Nvidia will
> have one in the next few months. Which means until then max
> resolution on the 30" one is outside of possibility. Although maybe
> there is some kind of mod if you want to run at like 15hz ;) 

Well, DL DVI is full inside DVI spec and there are cards with DL DVI. Of
course no real consumer cards as you said. But I think nVidia wants sell
their QuadroFX series for the PC market, so they won´t bring out a DL
consumer card (at least nVidia Germany said that). The first samples of
the 6800U had DL DVI, but the manufacturers cut down one transmitter.
You can still see the free place on the back side of the card.
But also ATI has now one card with DL DVI, the new FireGl X3. I think I
will go this way to drive the display at its native resolution on my PC.

Denis
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:19:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Denis Freund <denisfreund@cityweb.de> wrote in message news:<2nsvm5F4ce0aU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> Eric Witte schrieb:
> > Note the "outside of normal DVI spec." Still there are not really any
> > consumer cards that have dual link capability. I believe Nvidia will
> > have one in the next few months. Which means until then max
> > resolution on the 30" one is outside of possibility. Although maybe
> > there is some kind of mod if you want to run at like 15hz ;) 
>
> Well, DL DVI is full inside DVI spec and there are cards with DL DVI. Of
> course no real consumer cards as you said. But I think nVidia wants sell
> their QuadroFX series for the PC market, so they won´t bring out a DL
> consumer card (at least nVidia Germany said that). The first samples of
> the 6800U had DL DVI, but the manufacturers cut down one transmitter.
> You can still see the free place on the back side of the card.
> But also ATI has now one card with DL DVI, the new FireGl X3. I think I
> will go this way to drive the display at its native resolution on my PC.
>
> Denis

There are supposed to be consumer cards soon. From what I remember in
August. Of course its not a basic card. It will be a $500 6800
varient.

Eric
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:19:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Eric Witte schrieb:
> There are supposed to be consumer cards soon. From what I remember in
> August. Of course its not a basic card. It will be a $500 6800
> varient.

Would be nice, have you any further information about this?

Denis
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 8:22:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Denis Freund <denisfreund@cityweb.de> wrote in message news:<2nu9s5F4m7r0U1@uni-berlin.de>...
> Eric Witte schrieb:
> > There are supposed to be consumer cards soon. From what I remember in
> > August. Of course its not a basic card. It will be a $500 6800
> > varient.
>
> Would be nice, have you any further information about this?
>
> Denis

I'm having trouble finding information about the PC version. Apple
has a 6800 Ultra DDL that just came out.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleS...

Its possible that this is the card, and it is compatible with the PC.
Just that Apple is the only one allowed to sell it now.

Eric
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 3:36:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Eric Witte schrieb:
> I'm having trouble finding information about the PC version. Apple
> has a 6800 Ultra DDL that just came out.
>
> http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleS...
>
> Its possible that this is the card, and it is compatible with the PC.
> Just that Apple is the only one allowed to sell it now.

Yes it´s a DL card, but it isn´t compatible with a PC. As I said, I
think that nVidia wants to sell their QuadroFX series for the PC market,
else they (better: the card manufacturers - but I think they did it
because nVidia told them to do so) wouldn´t have removed the second TDMS
Transmitter from the 6800 series. The train of thought is easy to
follow: Who buys a display that needs DL DVI can afford a workstation
card too. The Radeon X3 is a good alternative, which I will make use of.

Denis
!