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SA - CJ's morality

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Anonymous
July 20, 2005 1:53:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

I've been crawling through the missions in SA at what I would have to say is
a leisurely pace. I've only just done "Madd Dogg's rhymes", and I'm about to
do "Burning Desire", and it made me think about CJ's morality.

He's supposed to be a bit of a good guy, and we're supposed to identify with
him because his Mum died, right? From what I've read, I think he goes after
revenge for his Mum's murder later on.

Does that sit awkwardly with anyone else, or is it just me? I mean, I've
just watched CJ stab a load of guards in the neck in order to steal a book
of lyrics from a rap star. The guards were only there doing their job, they
weren't bad guys as such. And then Madd Dogg's manager gets killed by
drowning because he badmouthed the guy who CJ stole the lyrics for? I don't
know about you, but I would probably be badmouthing him as well.

Tommy Vercetti was a bit of a psycho in his backstory, we knew that from the
start. We didn't expect much of him in terms of morality, because we knew he
was amoral. CJ, in contrast, is supposed to be fighting for his family and
friends, but he does a lot of senseless murder along the way, and it doesn't
quite fit in properly to me.

Does anyone else think the same way?

More about : morality

Anonymous
July 20, 2005 1:53:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Chris Wright wrote:
>
> I've been crawling through the missions in SA at what I would have to say is
> a leisurely pace. I've only just done "Madd Dogg's rhymes", and I'm about to
> do "Burning Desire", and it made me think about CJ's morality.
>
> He's supposed to be a bit of a good guy, and we're supposed to identify with
> him because his Mum died, right? From what I've read, I think he goes after
> revenge for his Mum's murder later on.
>
> Does that sit awkwardly with anyone else, or is it just me? I mean, I've
> just watched CJ stab a load of guards in the neck in order to steal a book
> of lyrics from a rap star. The guards were only there doing their job, they
> weren't bad guys as such. And then Madd Dogg's manager gets killed by
> drowning because he badmouthed the guy who CJ stole the lyrics for? I don't
> know about you, but I would probably be badmouthing him as well.
>
> Tommy Vercetti was a bit of a psycho in his backstory, we knew that from the
> start. We didn't expect much of him in terms of morality, because we knew he
> was amoral. CJ, in contrast, is supposed to be fighting for his family and
> friends, but he does a lot of senseless murder along the way, and it doesn't
> quite fit in properly to me.
>
> Does anyone else think the same way?

It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
showing its age.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 2:32:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

> It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
> knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
> Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
> showing its age.
>
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")

Yeah, I see what you mean. CJ's only ever known this sort of gang violence
and stuff, so his morality is based on looking after the gang and his
friends at all costs. Dog eat dog, and so on.

I can't really identify with it, but then I suppose I can't identify with
Vercetti either, having never spent 15 years in jail for multiple murders.
Tommy just seems to make more sense, that's all. He's a baddie and he makes
no secret of it, whereas CJ is trying to justify all the people he kills,
and if I was on a jury, I think I would vote to send him down.
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Anonymous
July 20, 2005 2:32:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Chris Wright wrote:
>
> > It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
> > knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
> > Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
> > showing its age.
> >
> > --
> > Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
>
> Yeah, I see what you mean. CJ's only ever known this sort of gang violence
> and stuff, so his morality is based on looking after the gang and his
> friends at all costs. Dog eat dog, and so on.
>
> I can't really identify with it, but then I suppose I can't identify with
> Vercetti either, having never spent 15 years in jail for multiple murders.
> Tommy just seems to make more sense, that's all. He's a baddie and he makes
> no secret of it, whereas CJ is trying to justify all the people he kills,
> and if I was on a jury, I think I would vote to send him down.

Well Carter gets his just deserts too, but there are many, myself
included who would have loved to see him walk away into the sunset.
It's a fight fire with fire thing. These are hard men but they know
where to draw a line. Rather like real crims will hand over or even
kill someone who murders children etc we all have our limits and CJ's
obviously are drawn around his family. He IS pretty evil though.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 2:40:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

In message <42de10d9$1@nntp.onyx.net>
"Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote:

> Does anyone else think the same way?

I do, definitely.

It's interesting to watch how the character basis has grown with the
games.

Claude (As we now know he's called) in GTAIII was just a small-time
hood who started doing "favours" for people. We don't find out it (And
I find it far fetched) if he takes over the city.

VC upped the ante with Tommy Vercetti's mob past and the numerous people
around the city he worked for or with. He ends up taking over
a lot of businesses whilst trying to get to the bottom of why the deal
at the start went wrong and then he gets revenge on his old boss for
'taking 15 years from me...'.

SA has an unbelievable amount of side stories. I say unbelievable as in
if you saw it in a film you'd question how close to reality it is (It's
a *GAME*, I AM aware of that!). CJ does have really questionable
morality. It's funny how you mention the 'Madd Dogg's Rhyme Book'
mission; you end up killing the very same person you nick it for later
on in the game just because CJ wants to help Madd Dogg get back on his
feet (No pun intended).

That's just one instance, I'll have to dig out my alpha and beta SA
story guides to have a really good look, I think I may have actually
asked the same question you did Chris.


Cheers,
Rob
--
..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
| / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
| \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 2:40:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Bram wrote:
> > It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
> > help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that whatever
> > anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without thinking.
> >
> He's quite the push-around indeed. I don't like that in his character, I
> prefer Tommy's cynical remarks he sometimes makes after getting a mission.
>
> The one thing that bothers me most is how his brother talks him back
> into becoming a low-life hood loser, going back to the life he's trying
> to get away from. It's almost as unbelievable as Star Wars III where
> Anakin suddenly becomes evil without any credibility whatsoever.
>
> Bram
> --
> http://www.stack.nl/~brama/gtastats.html

I think perhaps the storyline got padded out too much after all it's
got to fill 3 large cities. Can't help but wonder if some side
missions got included in the main mission (or excluded a reference is
made in a cut scene to a mission you don't have to do).

Yeah CJ is at times a total walk over, why get the rap book for OG
(apart from to create a mission later on to get it back)? It'd be fine
as side mission but part of the main missions? Which brings me back to
my first point...

Then again a lot of mission plots seemed daft in VC as I remember, but
the actions of Tommy fitted in better than those of CJ. I think R*
might of chickened out of making CJ a "bad ass mofo" so as not to get
political flak (remember the Haitians) about casting negative
stereotypes. If CJ had been more gansta than good guy the character
would of worked better for me.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 2:49:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

> Well Carter gets his just deserts too, but there are many, myself
> included who would have loved to see him walk away into the sunset.
> It's a fight fire with fire thing. These are hard men but they know
> where to draw a line. Rather like real crims will hand over or even
> kill someone who murders children etc we all have our limits and CJ's
> obviously are drawn around his family. He IS pretty evil though.
>
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> -------------------------------------------------------



He certainly is pretty evil in some of the missions. It seems that his
loyalty to Grove Street is pretty fierce, to the extent where he will kill a
relatively innocent person without having much justification for it. I'm
talking about the missions and story here rather than what CJ does when we
decide to steal a car and mow down the driver as he runs away. That stuff is
up to us, whereas the decisions CJ makes in the plot are his "real"
character.

I'm warming to this game now that I've decided to start playing through some
missions. So far there are some pretty inventive ones, which is better than
just having to race cars all the time, although I expect to see some of that
cropping up too from what I've read about later missions.

I suppose I'll just have to try to get that feeling of Grove Street loyalty
in my head by playing through the game some more.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 3:12:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

>
> That's just one instance, I'll have to dig out my alpha and beta SA
> story guides to have a really good look, I think I may have actually
> asked the same question you did Chris.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Rob


It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that whatever
anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without thinking.

I'm intrigued by your mention of alpha and beta story guides. Is there a way
I can get hold of them?

Cheers

Chris
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 3:29:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Chris Wright wrote:
>
> > Well Carter gets his just deserts too, but there are many, myself
> > included who would have loved to see him walk away into the sunset.
> > It's a fight fire with fire thing. These are hard men but they know
> > where to draw a line. Rather like real crims will hand over or even
> > kill someone who murders children etc we all have our limits and CJ's
> > obviously are drawn around his family. He IS pretty evil though.
> >
> > --
> > Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> > -------------------------------------------------------
>
> He certainly is pretty evil in some of the missions. It seems that his
> loyalty to Grove Street is pretty fierce, to the extent where he will kill a
> relatively innocent person without having much justification for it. I'm
> talking about the missions and story here rather than what CJ does when we
> decide to steal a car and mow down the driver as he runs away. That stuff is
> up to us, whereas the decisions CJ makes in the plot are his "real"
> character.
>
I agree, but when you hear the cops bragging about his mum and stuff
later you begin to realise that this really is CJ as good guy. They
make him look like a kitten. A lesser of two evils, so to speak.

> I'm warming to this game now that I've decided to start playing through some
> missions. So far there are some pretty inventive ones, which is better than
> just having to race cars all the time, although I expect to see some of that
> cropping up too from what I've read about later missions.
>
Yep, sadly there really are some a to b type missions but it wouldn't
be GTA without them. As has been pointed out it really is trying to
give a little bit of everything for everyone, with the modding and
clothes, feeding him and getting him fit, it's more like SIM Gangsta
than anything else. But it's a very inventive game and I still find
new things after so many run throughs I lost count.

> I suppose I'll just have to try to get that feeling of Grove Street loyalty
> in my head by playing through the game some more.

Grove Street are Back! :o )

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 4:12:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

> It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
> help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that whatever
> anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without thinking.
>
He's quite the push-around indeed. I don't like that in his character, I
prefer Tommy's cynical remarks he sometimes makes after getting a mission.

The one thing that bothers me most is how his brother talks him back
into becoming a low-life hood loser, going back to the life he's trying
to get away from. It's almost as unbelievable as Star Wars III where
Anakin suddenly becomes evil without any credibility whatsoever.

Bram
--
http://www.stack.nl/~brama/gtastats.html
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 7:10:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

In message <42de2388$1@nntp.onyx.net>
"Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote:

> I'm intrigued by your mention of alpha and beta story guides. Is there a way
> I can get hold of them?

Sure, help me sift through a great number of floppy disks marked "Odds
And Sods" :o P

The SA (And VC come to that) guides are kind of linked to the GTAIII
one I wrote aeons ago. With the release of SA on the XBox and PC I was
planning to merge them altogether as one rather hefty document but I
haven't had much spare time what with all me other projects.

I'll try and find the disk it's on though, it must be SOMEWHERE
close....


Cheers,
Rob
--
..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
| / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
| \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 7:16:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:

>
> It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
> knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
> Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
> showing its age.
>

and doesn't show the area where I live in a particularly good light. I know things were pretty Grim
Up North when it was filmed, but they made it look rancid
July 20, 2005 7:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

TV's mustrum_ridcully wrote:
> I think perhaps the storyline got padded out too much after all it's
> got to fill 3 large cities. Can't help but wonder if some side
> missions got included in the main mission (or excluded a reference is
> made in a cut scene to a mission you don't have to do).

Are there any references in the game to things that were removed?

--

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan

aa #2133
ap #19
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 8:06:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Pope Phil wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop wrote:
>
> >
> > It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
> > knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
> > Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
> > showing its age.
> >
>
> and doesn't show the area where I live in a particularly good light. I know things were pretty Grim
> Up North when it was filmed, but they made it look rancid

aye but that was deliberate. Apparently the book has it in Hull, much
more appropriate :o ) It's pretty cool looking at it now and trying to
work out exactly where they filmed

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 8:11:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

"Rob White" <mflt35@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:775f5c8d4d.Rob@aqus02.dsl.pipex.com...
> In message <42de10d9$1@nntp.onyx.net>
> "Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone else think the same way?
>
> I do, definitely.
>
> It's interesting to watch how the character basis has grown with the
> games.
>
> Claude (As we now know he's called) in GTAIII was just a small-time
> hood who started doing "favours" for people. We don't find out it (And
> I find it far fetched) if he takes over the city.
>
> VC upped the ante with Tommy Vercetti's mob past and the numerous people
> around the city he worked for or with. He ends up taking over
> a lot of businesses whilst trying to get to the bottom of why the deal
> at the start went wrong and then he gets revenge on his old boss for
> 'taking 15 years from me...'.
>
> SA has an unbelievable amount of side stories. I say unbelievable as in
> if you saw it in a film you'd question how close to reality it is (It's
> a *GAME*, I AM aware of that!). CJ does have really questionable
> morality. It's funny how you mention the 'Madd Dogg's Rhyme Book'
> mission; you end up killing the very same person you nick it for later
> on in the game


well thats that bit spoilt! Mind you can't say I liked OG Loc
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 8:38:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:
> Pope Phil wrote:
>
>>Paul Heslop wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
>>>knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
>>>Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
>>>showing its age.
>>>
>>
>>and doesn't show the area where I live in a particularly good light. I know things were pretty Grim
>>Up North when it was filmed, but they made it look rancid
>
>
> aye but that was deliberate. Apparently the book has it in Hull, much
> more appropriate :o ) It's pretty cool looking at it now and trying to
> work out exactly where they filmed
>

well, The Long Bar (the grim pub at the start) is long gone. the housing estate where Brit Ekland
lived is gone too.
For many years I've tried to work out how they ran from Dunston Staithes to the beach at the end of
the film - its about 20 miles at least.


did you know there's a Honk Kong movie of the same book?
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 8:40:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Chris Wright schrieb:

> It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
> help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that whatever
> anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without thinking.

Does he really kill Loc at the end of that mission? I doubt, CJ
just takes the rhyme book and that's it.
After all, Loc is a member of the "family", isn't he?

CU, Venty
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 8:40:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

"Martin Ebnoether" <martin.ebnoether@web.de> wrote in message
news:42de6275$0$1149$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
> Chris Wright schrieb:
>
>> It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
>> help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that
>> whatever anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without
>> thinking.
>
> Does he really kill Loc at the end of that mission? I doubt, CJ just takes
> the rhyme book and that's it.
> After all, Loc is a member of the "family", isn't he?
>
> CU, Venty

I was referring to what Rob said, I haven't seen CJ kill OG Loc myself so
far, and he certainly doesn't kill him at the end of the Mad Dogg's Rhymes
mission, because there are other OG Loc missions after that one. Maybe I
misunderstood what Rob meant.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 8:40:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Chris Wright wrote:
>
> "Martin Ebnoether" <martin.ebnoether@web.de> wrote in message
> news:42de6275$0$1149$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
> > Chris Wright schrieb:
> >
> >> It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
> >> help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that
> >> whatever anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without
> >> thinking.
> >
> > Does he really kill Loc at the end of that mission? I doubt, CJ just takes
> > the rhyme book and that's it.
> > After all, Loc is a member of the "family", isn't he?
> >
> > CU, Venty
>
> I was referring to what Rob said, I haven't seen CJ kill OG Loc myself so
> far, and he certainly doesn't kill him at the end of the Mad Dogg's Rhymes
> mission, because there are other OG Loc missions after that one. Maybe I
> misunderstood what Rob meant.

I don't think Loc dies, I think they start treating him as a dogsbody
after that mission where you chase him on the gokart etc. CJ does kill
Loc's manager though.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 10:15:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Pope Phil wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop wrote:
> > Pope Phil wrote:
> >
> >>Paul Heslop wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>It's Get Carter all over again, he IS moral, he just fights as he
> >>>knows how. If you've never watched Get Carter (the original, not the
> >>>Sty Stallone mess) you're missing one heck of a movie, though it is
> >>>showing its age.
> >>>
> >>
> >>and doesn't show the area where I live in a particularly good light. I know things were pretty Grim
> >>Up North when it was filmed, but they made it look rancid
> >
> >
> > aye but that was deliberate. Apparently the book has it in Hull, much
> > more appropriate :o ) It's pretty cool looking at it now and trying to
> > work out exactly where they filmed
> >
>
> well, The Long Bar (the grim pub at the start) is long gone. the housing estate where Brit Ekland
> lived is gone too.
> For many years I've tried to work out how they ran from Dunston Staithes to the beach at the end of
> the film - its about 20 miles at least.
>
> did you know there's a Honk Kong movie of the same book?

:o ) Complete fabrication. I never knew about that ferry running from
wherever to Wallsend either, the one they have a shoot out on. Sadly
we left here when I was about 12/13 and didn't return til quite
recently. I wish I'h had my camera and the wish to take pics when I
was a lad.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 12:49:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:

> :o ) Complete fabrication. I never knew about that ferry running from
> wherever to Wallsend either, the one they have a shoot out on. Sadly
> we left here when I was about 12/13 and didn't return til quite
> recently. I wish I'h had my camera and the wish to take pics when I
> was a lad.


Hebburn
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 1:43:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Pope Phil wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop wrote:
>
> > :o ) Complete fabrication. I never knew about that ferry running from
> > wherever to Wallsend either, the one they have a shoot out on. Sadly
> > we left here when I was about 12/13 and didn't return til quite
> > recently. I wish I'h had my camera and the wish to take pics when I
> > was a lad.
>
> Hebburn

quite a short distance really, on the film it looked like Newcastle to
Wallsend.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
July 21, 2005 3:23:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

"Diablos Rojos" <M.B.@tiscali.com> wrote in message
news:3k77ulFt2on3U1@individual.net...
>
> "Rob White" <mflt35@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:775f5c8d4d.Rob@aqus02.dsl.pipex.com...
>> In message <42de10d9$1@nntp.onyx.net>
>> "Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Does anyone else think the same way?
>>
>> I do, definitely.
>>
>> It's interesting to watch how the character basis has grown with the
>> games.
>>
>> Claude (As we now know he's called) in GTAIII was just a small-time
>> hood who started doing "favours" for people. We don't find out it (And
>> I find it far fetched) if he takes over the city.
>>
>> VC upped the ante with Tommy Vercetti's mob past and the numerous people
>> around the city he worked for or with. He ends up taking over
>> a lot of businesses whilst trying to get to the bottom of why the deal
>> at the start went wrong and then he gets revenge on his old boss for
>> 'taking 15 years from me...'.
>>
>> SA has an unbelievable amount of side stories. I say unbelievable as in
>> if you saw it in a film you'd question how close to reality it is (It's
>> a *GAME*, I AM aware of that!). CJ does have really questionable
>> morality. It's funny how you mention the 'Madd Dogg's Rhyme Book'
>> mission; you end up killing the very same person you nick it for later
>> on in the game
>
>
> well thats that bit spoilt! Mind you can't say I liked OG Loc
>
>

Don't believe everything you read, dude. It ain't always true.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 3:59:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Razor wrote:
>
> "Diablos Rojos" <M.B.@tiscali.com> wrote in message
> news:3k77ulFt2on3U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "Rob White" <mflt35@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> > news:775f5c8d4d.Rob@aqus02.dsl.pipex.com...
> >> In message <42de10d9$1@nntp.onyx.net>
> >> "Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Does anyone else think the same way?
> >>
> >> I do, definitely.
> >>
> >> It's interesting to watch how the character basis has grown with the
> >> games.
> >>
> >> Claude (As we now know he's called) in GTAIII was just a small-time
> >> hood who started doing "favours" for people. We don't find out it (And
> >> I find it far fetched) if he takes over the city.
> >>
> >> VC upped the ante with Tommy Vercetti's mob past and the numerous people
> >> around the city he worked for or with. He ends up taking over
> >> a lot of businesses whilst trying to get to the bottom of why the deal
> >> at the start went wrong and then he gets revenge on his old boss for
> >> 'taking 15 years from me...'.
> >>
> >> SA has an unbelievable amount of side stories. I say unbelievable as in
> >> if you saw it in a film you'd question how close to reality it is (It's
> >> a *GAME*, I AM aware of that!). CJ does have really questionable
> >> morality. It's funny how you mention the 'Madd Dogg's Rhyme Book'
> >> mission; you end up killing the very same person you nick it for later
> >> on in the game
> >
> >
> > well thats that bit spoilt! Mind you can't say I liked OG Loc
> >
> >
>
> Don't believe everything you read, dude. It ain't always true.

fur sure
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 6:01:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

towelie wrote:
> TV's mustrum_ridcully wrote:
> > I think perhaps the storyline got padded out too much after all it's
> > got to fill 3 large cities. Can't help but wonder if some side
> > missions got included in the main mission (or excluded a reference is
> > made in a cut scene to a mission you don't have to do).
>
> Are there any references in the game to things that were removed?
>
> --
>
> Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
> A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
> - Maynard James Keenan
>
> aa #2133
> ap #19

I think it's on one of the Truth missions at the airstrip where one of
the geeks mentions this'll be just like xyz where xyz is one of the
Zero (RC) missions in SF that you don't have to do to complete the main
strand of the game.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:39:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Yes, I remember this - It's the one where you nick a helicopter from
the military compound to the north-east, and you're shooting
helicopters with a minigun, "just like Berkley's RC barons". I had
attempted the first Zero mission about a dozen times at that point, so
I was not happy when I heard that!

Phil Hibbs.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 1:56:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

In message <42DE7665.1C6C6241@blueyonder.co.uk>
Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> aye but that was deliberate. Apparently the book has it in Hull, much
> more appropriate :o ) It's pretty cool looking at it now and trying to
> work out exactly where they filmed

<off-topic> Useless trivia: When Carter is travelling up to Newcastle,
he's reading a book called 'Jack's Return Home', the very same book the
film was based on.

There's alos a chap sitting across from him with a 'J' on his ring,
which is significant later on (Right at the end in fact).


Cheers,
Rob
--
..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
| / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
| \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 2:20:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Rob White wrote:
>
> In message <42DE7665.1C6C6241@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > aye but that was deliberate. Apparently the book has it in Hull, much
> > more appropriate :o ) It's pretty cool looking at it now and trying to
> > work out exactly where they filmed
>
> <off-topic> Useless trivia: When Carter is travelling up to Newcastle,
> he's reading a book called 'Jack's Return Home', the very same book the
> film was based on.
>
> There's alos a chap sitting across from him with a 'J' on his ring,
> which is significant later on (Right at the end in fact).
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
> --
> .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
> | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
> | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

Aye, I've read the little book about the film too - oh, and a handful
of cult film books, where it gets a mention. I wonder if any if that
stuff was intentional?

Jack's return home was the original title for Get Carter, the novel.
BTW, according to this page there are at least two other Carter books!

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Ted_Lewis.htm


--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 6:16:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

"Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote in message
news:42de10d9$1@nntp.onyx.net...

> He's supposed to be a bit of a good guy, and we're supposed to identify
with
> him because his Mum died, right?

It's easy to be a murderous criminal with strong family values - look at the
Krays.

The main character's tendency to switch allegiances at the drop of a hat is
central to the series. Usually you have to take someone out who you've been
working for earlier in the game. It's easy to see how this is the character
being "led" by others, but it's necessary as part of the storyline. If R*
didn't do it this way, they'd just have to find another mechanism for doing
it, and (after all) it's only a game...
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 8:53:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

"G Hardy" <gareth.hardy1@ntlwrold.com> wrote in message
news:o 6ODe.9613$Fx3.7960@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> "Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com> wrote in message
> news:42de10d9$1@nntp.onyx.net...
>
>> He's supposed to be a bit of a good guy, and we're supposed to identify
> with
>> him because his Mum died, right?
>
> It's easy to be a murderous criminal with strong family values - look at
> the
> Krays.
>
> The main character's tendency to switch allegiances at the drop of a hat
> is
> central to the series. Usually you have to take someone out who you've
> been
> working for earlier in the game. It's easy to see how this is the
> character
> being "led" by others, but it's necessary as part of the storyline. If R*
> didn't do it this way, they'd just have to find another mechanism for
> doing
> it, and (after all) it's only a game...
>
>
Yeah, it IS only a game, but this is a group for talking about it, isn't it?
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 9:51:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Porn movies have a thin plot too, but you dont hear anyone complaining ;) 
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 11:10:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:53:14 +0100, "Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com>
wrote:

>Does that sit awkwardly with anyone else, or is it just me? I mean, I've
>just watched CJ stab a load of guards in the neck in order to steal a book
>of lyrics from a rap star.

Don't fool yourself! It was *you* doing the stabbing, not CJ! You
didn't have to, you could have just run past them!



andyt
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 11:16:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Andy Turner wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:53:14 +0100, "Chris Wright" <nospam@chris.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Does that sit awkwardly with anyone else, or is it just me? I mean, I've
> >just watched CJ stab a load of guards in the neck in order to steal a book
> >of lyrics from a rap star.
>
> Don't fool yourself! It was *you* doing the stabbing, not CJ! You
> didn't have to, you could have just run past them!
>
> andyt

yep, Chris is a psycho!

:o )
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 2:10:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

GMpartsguy wrote:
>
> Porn movies have a thin plot too, but you dont hear anyone complaining ;) 

"Why, mr Plumberman, that IS a large tool you have! Oops, I just
dropped something and must bend down to pick it up, please excuse the
lack of panties."

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 2:11:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

> > Porn movies have a thin plot too, but you dont hear anyone complaining
;) 
>
> "Why, mr Plumberman, that IS a large tool you have! Oops, I just
> dropped something and must bend down to pick it up, please excuse the
> lack of panties."
>
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Heeheeeee.
Actually, Chris and Mustrum make good points. The 'morality' of CJ's role
in the game is much different and doesnt make sense at times. maybe even
Rockstar got lost in their own massive creation.
Oh well... It still wont hinder my ability to strafe highways with airborne
gunfire, or shoot hookers and those old slow people. Woooohooooooo !!!!!
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:45:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

GMpartsguy wrote:
>
> > > Porn movies have a thin plot too, but you dont hear anyone complaining
> ;) 
> >
> > "Why, mr Plumberman, that IS a large tool you have! Oops, I just
> > dropped something and must bend down to pick it up, please excuse the
> > lack of panties."
> >
> > --
> > Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Stop and Look
> > http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
>
> Heeheeeee.
> Actually, Chris and Mustrum make good points. The 'morality' of CJ's role
> in the game is much different and doesnt make sense at times. maybe even
> Rockstar got lost in their own massive creation.
> Oh well... It still wont hinder my ability to strafe highways with airborne
> gunfire, or shoot hookers and those old slow people. Woooohooooooo !!!!!

Hell no, the difference is it's a game, we're all reasonably able to
differentiate between real life gangstas and what we play and I for
one think GTA is one of the best games I have ever played and hope to
have many many more happy homicidal hours.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:26:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

In message <42E01D66.37F236DE@blueyonder.co.uk>
Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> "Why, mr Plumberman, that IS a large tool you have! Oops, I just
> dropped something and must bend down to pick it up, please excuse the
> lack of panties."

And the bastard is; they never do get round to fixing the plumbing.

Female porn stars must be very tolerant.


Cheers,
Rob
--
..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
| / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
| \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:26:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Rob White wrote:
>
> In message <42E01D66.37F236DE@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > "Why, mr Plumberman, that IS a large tool you have! Oops, I just
> > dropped something and must bend down to pick it up, please excuse the
> > lack of panties."
>
> And the bastard is; they never do get round to fixing the plumbing.
>
> Female porn stars must be very tolerant.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
> --
> .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
> | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
> | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

And the poor buggers can't even afford knickers either. They need
someone who knows how to use their tool rather than some bloke with a
dodgy perm and a big moustache carrying a radio casette with his
favourite collection of funky wah wah guitar songs.


--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 11:12:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

In message <42E0DC32.8E1F1107@blueyonder.co.uk>
Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> And the poor buggers can't even afford knickers either. They need
> someone who knows how to use their tool rather than some bloke with a
> dodgy perm and a big moustache carrying a radio casette with his
> favourite collection of funky wah wah guitar songs.

Leo Sayer?


Cheers,
Rob
--
..__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
| / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
| \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 11:13:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Rob White wrote:
>
> In message <42E0DC32.8E1F1107@blueyonder.co.uk>
> Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > And the poor buggers can't even afford knickers either. They need
> > someone who knows how to use their tool rather than some bloke with a
> > dodgy perm and a big moustache carrying a radio casette with his
> > favourite collection of funky wah wah guitar songs.
>
> Leo Sayer?
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
> --
> .__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
> | / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mflt35@dsl.pipex.com
> | \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.

heh heh...he wasn't man enough for a tash!

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
July 25, 2005 3:36:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Chris Wright wrote:
>
> It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
> help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that whatever
> anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without thinking.
>

I don't know if they changed it in the PC version, but CJ doesn't kill
OJ Loc, he just takes the rhyme book and humiliates him. The last we see
of OJ-Loc is CJ ordering him to go and make coffee for Mad Dogg and himself.

--
drbob

OE Users - check this out!
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 3:42:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

drbob wrote:
>
> Chris Wright wrote:
> >
> > It does seem bizarre that CJ ends up killing OG Loc after going so far to
> > help him out. Maybe he's just very easily led, so far it seems that whatever
> > anyone wants him to do, he just goes and does it without thinking.
> >
>
> I don't know if they changed it in the PC version, but CJ doesn't kill
> OJ Loc, he just takes the rhyme book and humiliates him. The last we see
> of OJ-Loc is CJ ordering him to go and make coffee for Mad Dogg and himself.
>
> --
> drbob
>
> OE Users - check this out!
> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

:o ) that's how i remember it too
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
July 25, 2005 4:04:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.grand-theft-auto (More info?)

Bram wrote:
>
> The one thing that bothers me most is how his brother talks him back
> into becoming a low-life hood loser, going back to the life he's trying
> to get away from. It's almost as unbelievable as Star Wars III where
> Anakin suddenly becomes evil without any credibility whatsoever.
>

CJ never really left that life. If you watch the backstory movie
("GTA:SA The Introduction"), which was distributed with a special
edition of the soundtrack cd, you discover that he was jacking cars adn
mugging people for a living in Liberty City. He ran away there due to
his guilt about his brothers death, not because he wanted to get out of
a life of crime.

--
drbob

OE Users - check this out!
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
!