How Long Until All GSM/No TDMA?

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?
--
PeteCresswell
35 answers Last reply
More about long tdma
  1. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Yes.


    "(Pete Cresswell)" <x@y.z> wrote in message
    news:67pj901p3grommdlaga7843uqsgc5jkas7@4ax.com...
    > Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?
    > --
    > PeteCresswell
  2. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <LuBmc.10678$cb.1833@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
    "Paw-Paw" <Paw-Paw@granpa.com> wrote:

    > Yes.

    Top posting is bad.

    So, if you can possibly expand on that, WHEN is the end coming for TDMA?

    At some point, they'd have to tell me to go pound sand with my old
    Nation account and Nokia 3360 phone--the one that works anywhere. They
    haven't even come close to doing so.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    I may be wrong but I have read here before about this subject. I think
    people have said TDMA service will be around for about another 6-8 years...
    Again thats what I have read here....It looks like 800amps is still around
    in some parts and thats the old analog system......

    sorry if I am wrong....correct me.....


    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-62257A.23024406052004@news.usenetserver.com...
    > In article <LuBmc.10678$cb.1833@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
    > "Paw-Paw" <Paw-Paw@granpa.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Yes.
    >
    > Top posting is bad.
    >
    > So, if you can possibly expand on that, WHEN is the end coming for TDMA?
    >
    > At some point, they'd have to tell me to go pound sand with my old
    > Nation account and Nokia 3360 phone--the one that works anywhere. They
    > haven't even come close to doing so.
    >
  4. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    >Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?

    No.

    --
    John S.
    e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
  5. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    >So, if you can possibly expand on that, WHEN is the end coming for TDMA?

    Probably not before I retire!

    --
    John S.
    e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
  6. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    > It looks like 800amps is still around
    > in some parts and thats the old analog system......

    And in what parts is it no longer around? :-)

    I am sure the FCC would be really interested to know about
    any companies that are dropping AMPS coverage. :-O
  7. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    "N9WOS" <n9wos@nobug.att.net> wrote in message news:<GTFmc.49869$Xj6.847669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
    > > It looks like 800amps is still around
    > > in some parts and thats the old analog system......
    >
    > And in what parts is it no longer around? :-)
    >
    > I am sure the FCC would be really interested to know about
    > any companies that are dropping AMPS coverage. :-O

    Exactly.

    As AMPS is still the FCC mandated technology through the end of the
    sunset period, a Cellular licensee's CGSA is defined entirely by the
    extent of its AMPS footprint. Deployment of any alternative
    technology (e.g. CDMA, GSM) in isolation is currently immaterial to
    CGSA determination. And any complete removal of AMPS, resulting in a
    decrease in coverage area, would prompt a major modification filing w/
    the FCC. As such, the area previously served by AMPS would be
    subtracted from the licensee's CGSA. The previously served area would
    then be classified as unserved, upon which the original licensee would
    forfeit all rights to deploy or provide any Cellular service - AMPS or
    alternative - in the unserved area. And the unserved area would
    become available for any potential entrant to submit application to
    serve.

    Thus, in order to avoid conceding any licensed geography, Cellular
    licensees have to conscientiously maintain at least a bare minimum
    AMPS capacity at each & every site whose 32 dBu contours define its
    CGSA. The unfortunate caveat is that the FCC does not dictate what
    proportion of the 25 MHz license must be dedicated to AMPS versus any
    alternative technology, such that the bare minimum could potentially
    decline to only one AMPS channel per relevant site/sector.

    Andrew
    --
    Andrew Shepherd
    cinema@ku.edu
    cinema@sprintpcs.com
    http://www.wirelesswavelength.com/
  8. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Bottom posting is DUMB. I hate scrolling down.

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
    news:elmop-62257A.23024406052004@news.usenetserver.com...
    > In article <LuBmc.10678$cb.1833@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
    > "Paw-Paw" <Paw-Paw@granpa.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Yes.
    >
    > Top posting is bad.
    >
    > So, if you can possibly expand on that, WHEN is the end coming for TDMA?
    >
    > At some point, they'd have to tell me to go pound sand with my old
    > Nation account and Nokia 3360 phone--the one that works anywhere. They
    > haven't even come close to doing so.
    >
  9. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    On Sat, 08 May 2004 05:42:42 GMT, "Truthicle" <thetruth@thetruth.com>
    wrote:

    >Bottom posting is DUMB. I hate scrolling down.

    Well, maybe if the people who post would clean up their posts and not
    include each and every bit of the previous 10 messages including any
    footer and header they find you wouldn't have that problem. If you
    prefer to have your email exchanges like a game of Jeopardy that's
    your choice.

    If you cannot keep up with internet standards that have been in place
    for years it's probably best that you don't get on the net and leave
    it for people who do now how to use the net and are familiar with
    email conventions.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply
  10. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    >Bottom posting is DUMB. I hate scrolling down.

    Yeah, people are lazy and do not snip. At least with top posting you don't have
    to find the end of the message. I find snipping all but a few lines works the
    best.

    7-11 just came out with a new prepaid plan that uses the Cingular TDMA network.
    It's gonna be around for some time, although the capacity will continue to drop
    over time.
    --
    Dave
    Visit my New England Cell Phone Page at
    http://markson.net/cell_phones.htm
    (to reply take out the "remove" in my e-mail)
  11. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Since there is not FCC mandated continuance of tdma, it will
    probably come soon after they have deployed gsm throughout their entire
    network.
    The next question is "How long until they launch WCDMA?, and "How
    long until all WCDMA, no tdma?".

    (Pete Cresswell) wrote:
    > Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?
  12. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Oops, sorry, meant "all WCDMA, no gsm?".


    Jerome Zelinske wrote:

    > Since there is not FCC mandated continuance of tdma, it will
    > probably come soon after they have deployed gsm throughout their entire
    > network.
    > The next question is "How long until they launch WCDMA?, and "How
    > long until all WCDMA, no tdma?".
    >
    > (Pete Cresswell) wrote:
    >
    >> Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    > Since there is not FCC mandated continuance of tdma, it will
    > probably come soon after they have deployed gsm throughout their entire
    > network.

    It can use the same control channels as AMPS uses, and can
    interchangeably operate on voice channels with no system changes.

    So as long as they have AMPS, it would be stupid to get rid of TDMA.

    > The next question is "How long until they launch WCDMA?, and "How
    > long until all WCDMA, no GSM?".

    And that is """"""assuming"""""" they go to WCDMA.
    With they said they were not doing until they seen a market for it.
    Which they currently do not.

    So, at this time, GSM with EDGE is the end game.
    That is their end target.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Well, I talked to the cingular rep in Alabama, and they will be rolling
    out GSM there shortly.(In the next month) At that time, I would suspect
    that they will stop selling TDMA phones into that market.

    That would mean a slow death of the TDMA and amps in that market becuase
    cingular only sells one Gait phone.

    So, I would suspect that within a year or two, tdma will be withdrawn.

    IMHO
    Chip

    N9WOS wrote:
    >> Since there is not FCC mandated continuance of tdma, it will
    >>probably come soon after they have deployed gsm throughout their entire
    >>network.
    >
    >
    > It can use the same control channels as AMPS uses, and can
    > interchangeably operate on voice channels with no system changes.
    >
    > So as long as they have AMPS, it would be stupid to get rid of TDMA.
    >
    >
    >> The next question is "How long until they launch WCDMA?, and "How
    >>long until all WCDMA, no GSM?".
    >
    >
    > And that is """"""assuming"""""" they go to WCDMA.
    > With they said they were not doing until they seen a market for it.
    > Which they currently do not.
    >
    > So, at this time, GSM with EDGE is the end game.
    > That is their end target.
    >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    > Well, I talked to the cingular rep in Alabama, and they will be rolling
    > out GSM there shortly.(In the next month) At that time, I would suspect
    > that they will stop selling TDMA phones into that market.

    As normal.

    > That would mean a slow death of the TDMA and amps in that market becuase
    > cingular only sells one Gait phone.

    ?????
    There is two.
    The Nokia 6340i
    And the Ericsson T62u

    > So, I would suspect that within a year or two, tdma will be withdrawn.

    It isn't that easy.
    You will not have everyone upgrade to GSM in under two years.
    Heck.... there is still people running around with analog bag phones
    that have been in service for 20+ years.

    There will be a large TDMA population for years to come.
    They will keep enough channels to do handle the load.
    If they dropped TDMA coverage,
    the AMPS channels would be overwhelmed.

    They will either have to increase the amps channel capacity to handle
    the dislodged TDMA user population, or keep the required amount
    of TDMA channels to handle the usage.

    I would say that when TDMA usage gets so low that the AMPS channels
    can handle the extra usage, they will terminate the TDMA channels and
    shuffle all the stragglers over to the analog channels.
    Or have the base station that is capable of using the channel for TDMA
    or amps depending on the cell phone that is calling.
    The latter will be more likely.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    The very first Paragraph in my Cingular contract:

    "NETWORK REPLACEMENT NOTICE- Cingular Wireless is replacing its existing
    wireless technology with the Global System for Mobil Communications (GSM).
    We may upgrade the system in your area sometime in the next 12 to 24 months.
    When we do, it may be necessary to replace your existing phone. We will be
    presenting you with various options as the time to convert approaches.
    (applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)

    CUSTOMER INITIALS"


    none of that means anything to me- I have a GSM plan and phone anyway.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    "> We may upgrade the system in your area sometime in the next 12 to 24
    months.
    > When we do, it may be necessary to replace your existing phone. We will
    be
    > presenting you with various options as the time to convert approaches.
    > (applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)

    Ow...... that is what you are talking about.

    That is primarily referring to people in areas where they only have PCS
    coverage.
    In some of those areas, they are dropping TDMA PCS and will only have GSM
    left.
    They don't have enough PCS bandwidth to run both system properly

    But.......
    That does not apply to the entire network.
    Just a few parts of it.
    Not enough to justify the statement that
    TDMA will be discontinued completely,
    like some are implying.

    Is some parts, it will vanish.
    But in the majority of the coverage area, it will be around for years.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    > Is some parts, it will vanish.
    > But in the majority of the coverage area, it will be around for years.
    >
    Talking to people I know that works for Cingular- and the reason I chose a
    GSM package-

    Cingular is planning on going total GSM and is in the process of changing
    over now.

    (applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)

    I'm thinking that means the named states are the only ones that require that
    statement in the contract. Otherwise, why the Customer Initials?
  19. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    > Cingular is planning on going total GSM and is in the process of changing
    > over now.

    Cingular is planning to have GSM across the entire network.
    But that doesn't mean they will drop support for all other modes.
    They can't even think about that until 2008,
    when the amps requirement ends.

    > (applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA)
    >
    > I'm thinking that means the named states are the only ones that require
    that
    > statement in the contract. Otherwise, why the Customer Initials?

    If you look at the cingular network map, and where they have 800 Mhz
    coverage, and PCS only coverage, you will get the idea.

    The major places they only have PCS coverage to cover major population areas
    is.
    Shreveport Louisiana.
    Montgomery Alabama.
    Columbus Georgia
    Tampa, Sarasota, and ft. Myers Florida.
    Hattiesburg, Biloxi, and Gulfport Mississippi.

    Most of the other places have both 800 and PCS coverage.
    Plenty of room to operate TDMA and GSM.
    But those few places are weak spots.

    Notice the wording.
    "applicable within certain areas in FL, LA, MS, AL and GA"
    If it was state laws, then it would be worded.
    "Applicable within the states of FL, LA, MS, AL and GA"

    Heck, they have had 850 GSM fully deployed in Indiana for a year,
    But there has been no talk about dropping TDMA at all.
    They don't sell TDMA to contract customers.
    Only GSM or GAIT for them.
    But...............
    They have the TDMA phones in stock for prepaid users.

    It is kinda odd.
    You can only activate a TDMA phone for prepaid,
    and you can only activate a GSM phone for contract/billed usage.
    And that seems the way it's going to stay.

    Another note, on the prepaid TDMA coverage map,
    in the west side of Florida, there is a moderate amount of
    TDMA PCS only coverage that has vanished from the map.
    (The places where they switched to GSM only.)
  20. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    >With they said they were not doing until they seen a market for it.
    >Which they currently do not.
    >

    Actually, Cingular has now purchased a test setup from Nokia (week before last)
    and have it in their lab. Nokia feels that orders will be coming soon as they
    have demonstrated it to the Cingular CEO and others.

    AT&T has two systems already installed and they are testing it.

    As for a market, people want faster and faster access to the internet, their
    e-mail and so on.

    They will install it shortly I am sure.

    --
    John S.
    e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
  21. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    > Actually, Cingular has now purchased a test setup from Nokia (week before
    last)
    > and have it in their lab. Nokia feels that orders will be coming soon as
    they
    > have demonstrated it to the Cingular CEO and others.

    That doesn't indicate any thing out of the ordinary.
    It just helps them figure out what it takes to implement the system,
    and how much it would probably cost to install it.

    That is one of the two parts that is used to see if there
    is a big enough market to justify installing it.

    > AT&T has two systems already installed and they are testing it.

    From what I have read, they are still trying to settle on a bandwidth.
    They still can't figure out if they want to implement WCDMA
    in the full 5Mhz bandwidth.

    > As for a market, people want faster and faster access to the internet,
    their
    > e-mail and so on.

    There is always someone that want a bigger, faster connection.
    But five people in the continental US is not a large enough
    customer base to justify an installation of a nation wide network.

    > They will install it shortly I am sure.

    They will install it when there is a market for it.
    (translation)
    They will install it when there is enough users that
    will utilize the capabilities it has (above and beyond EDGE)
    to make it profitable.

    (ie)If 95% of potential customers will be satisfied with EDGE,
    and only 5% will demand WCDMA.
    That extra 5% will not bring the company enough money to
    justify the cost of implementing WCDMA.

    They would make more money by letting that 5% walk,
    and not wasting money to satisfy them.

    The only thing a company could possibly gain
    by implementing WCDMA is bragging rights.
    But it doesn't make the least bit of economical sense.

    And I have seen many people say that it will be about
    10 years or more before the market evolves enough for
    the majority of users to require anything above EDGE.
  22. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    (Pete Cresswell) wrote:
    > Is the end in sight for TDMA service under Cingular?

    well I just thought of quoting the cingular web page

    http://www.cingular.com/about/latest_news/04_04_20


    in this release it says that

    # Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
    percent network coverage in next 90 days
    # 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network


    At the end of the first quarter, more than 53 percent of Cingular's
    handsets in service were GSM capable, up from 22 percent a year earlier
    and 45 percent at the end of 2003. Approximately 66 percent of
    Cingular's total minutes are now carried on its GSM network. GSM
    provides the truest voice quality in wireless. GSM is the world's most
    popular wireless technology, and it provides customers the widest
    selection of handsets in the industry with features such as color
    screens, built-in cameras and the latest data services.

    I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
    suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
    switched.

    Chip
  23. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Ralph Blach <rblach@NOSPAMintrex..XXXnet> wrote in message news:<109t1c8nqfet6fc@corp.supernews.com>...

    > in this release it says that
    >
    > # Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
    > percent network coverage in next 90 days

    Which means GSM will be running on all of Cingular's towers.

    > # 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network

    Which would be impressive until you realize that all of Cingular's
    coverage in the Carolina's and west of the Rockies has always been GSM
    so probably 25% of their minutes have always been GSM!

    > I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
    > suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
    > switched.

    Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
    contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
    two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
    just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.

    As others have said, the fact that Cingular still sells TDMA prepaid
    phones, and that there's no good reason to dismantle TDMA in 800MHz
    markets (where analog is mandated for four more years) indicated TDMA
    will be around awhile- at least long enough to get your money's worth
    out of any TDMA contract started today.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Yes, once the gsm is totally launched and they stop signing up 2
    year tdma contracts it seems unlikely they would turn off the tdma for 2
    years, but that is no guaranty. PrePaid refills have a much shorter
    expiration date and they may also stop selling them well before the end
    of the two year contract expiration.


    Todd Allcock wrote:

    > Ralph Blach <rblach@NOSPAMintrex..XXXnet> wrote in message news:<109t1c8nqfet6fc@corp.supernews.com>...
    >
    >
    >>in this release it says that
    >>
    >># Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
    >>percent network coverage in next 90 days
    >
    >
    > Which means GSM will be running on all of Cingular's towers.
    >
    >
    >># 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network
    >
    >
    > Which would be impressive until you realize that all of Cingular's
    > coverage in the Carolina's and west of the Rockies has always been GSM
    > so probably 25% of their minutes have always been GSM!
    >
    >
    >>I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
    >>suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
    >>switched.
    >
    >
    > Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
    > contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
    > two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
    > just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.
    >
    > As others have said, the fact that Cingular still sells TDMA prepaid
    > phones, and that there's no good reason to dismantle TDMA in 800MHz
    > markets (where analog is mandated for four more years) indicated TDMA
    > will be around awhile- at least long enough to get your money's worth
    > out of any TDMA contract started today.
  25. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Todd Allcock wrote:

    > Ralph Blach <rblach@NOSPAMintrex..XXXnet> wrote in message news:<109t1c8nqfet6fc@corp.supernews.com>...
    >
    >
    >>in this release it says that
    >>
    >># Cingular's nationwide GSM/GPRS network overlay on track to achieve 100
    >>percent network coverage in next 90 days
    >
    >
    > Which means GSM will be running on all of Cingular's towers.
    >
    >
    >># 66 percent of Cingular's minutes now on its GSM/GPRS network
    >
    >
    > Which would be impressive until you realize that all of Cingular's
    > coverage in the Carolina's and west of the Rockies has always been GSM
    > so probably 25% of their minutes have always been GSM!
    >
    >
    >>I looked at alabamas phones, two were GSM(GAIT) and three were TDMA. I
    >>suspect that the TDMA phone will be dropped when the the network is
    >>switched.
    >
    >
    > Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
    > contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
    > two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
    > just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.

    Why not? What's wrong with supporting TDMA customers with a freebie for
    the preference of keeping good customers around? Besides, TDMA phones
    are cheap, and by the time that client wants to upgrade with a new
    contract, GSM phones will be a lot cheaper than now.

    >
    > As others have said, the fact that Cingular still sells TDMA prepaid
    > phones, and that there's no good reason to dismantle TDMA in 800MHz
    > markets (where analog is mandated for four more years) indicated TDMA
    > will be around awhile- at least long enough to get your money's worth
    > out of any TDMA contract started today.


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
    "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
    what we know." -- Richard Wilbur
  26. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    On Wed, 12 May 2004 21:27:32 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:

    >> Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
    >> contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
    >> two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
    >> just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.
    >
    >Why not? What's wrong with supporting TDMA customers with a freebie for
    >the preference of keeping good customers around? Besides, TDMA phones
    >are cheap, and by the time that client wants to upgrade with a new
    >contract, GSM phones will be a lot cheaper than now.

    I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
    being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
    now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
    phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
    now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
    don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
    that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
    which is certainly not 100% of the country.

    Paul (staying TDMA for now)
    Paul Goelz
    Rochester Hills, Michigan
  27. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    "> I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
    > being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
    > now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
    > phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
    > now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
    > don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
    > that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
    > which is certainly not 100% of the country.
    >
    > Paul (staying TDMA for now)
    > Paul Goelz
    > Rochester Hills, Michigan

    No big issue here. Just use a GAIT phone. The t62u is still being sold in
    Detroit area Cingular stores and on its website along with national GAIT
    calling plans.
    If it's bells, whistles and a color screen you want, you can have those too.
    Just get a second GSM-only phone like an SE t637. When you are at home in
    lower Michigan put the SIM in the t637 and use that. When you are heading
    for parts unknown, put the SIM in the t62u and you will get service most
    everywhere -- even in the UP where there is no GSM service now or even
    planned. You can use the same car and travel chargers for both phones and a
    GAIT SIM will work perfectly with the GSM-only phone.
    --- Cary
  28. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    "Paul Goelz" <123@abc.com> wrote in message
    news:7qkji094u3u7514928s28i6jf8gu4ijaas@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 12 May 2004 21:27:32 -0500, Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote:
    >
    > >> Probably, but since they're signing those TDMA customers to two-year
    > >> contracts, that tells us TDMA will stay in service there for at least
    > >> two more years, since Cingular wouldn't want to give away TDMA phones
    > >> just to have to swap them for GSM in the next 12 months.
    > >
    > >Why not? What's wrong with supporting TDMA customers with a freebie for
    > >the preference of keeping good customers around? Besides, TDMA phones
    > >are cheap, and by the time that client wants to upgrade with a new
    > >contract, GSM phones will be a lot cheaper than now.
    >
    > I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
    > being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
    > now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
    > phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
    > now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
    > don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
    > that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
    > which is certainly not 100% of the country.
    >
    > Paul (staying TDMA for now)
    > Paul Goelz
    > Rochester Hills, Michigan

    We have a family plan with 4 phones (TDMA). Our phones haven't been working
    for at least 7 months. We took one in to upgrade the phone In February. We
    are in New England and they stated that any phone that was an upgraded would
    be put on the GSM network. Even after two trade ins the new phone did not
    work at all in our house. So we have 3 old phones on TDMA whose service is
    so bad they barely work anymore in our house (this after having cellular
    with the same company for 6 years) and one that didn't work at all.

    The GSM phone now works at our house but barely. It drops service all the
    time and does not work in all places in our house. I feel like I have been
    gifting Cingular with a lot of money for about a year now. I do not want
    to pay them anything extra to upgrade the TDMA phones to GSM. The GSM does
    not work as well as the old TDMA phones do. They have ruined our
    coverage.

    I am angry and there doesn't seem to be a thing I can do about it except pay
    them money every month until the contract on the three phones that are TDMA
    expires and bite the bullet on the 4th phone.

    Turbo
    >
  29. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    The GAIT phones can be a mixed blessing. It seems that Cingular (at least
    with the Nokia 6340i defeated some of the interoperability featues.) In my
    area, analog service is occasionally needed to fill in the holes.
    Unfortunately, the preferences seem to be set such that the phone will
    attempt to use a marginal GSM connection before it tries anything else.
    After Cingular modified the Nokia programming, you cannot over-ride the
    automatic selection as you can with the standard Nokia programming.
    Currently, GSM, TDMA, and Analog service are necessary to completely cover
    my area. (Florida & Georgia). On the other hand, I've had service with
    first Bell South, and then it's successor Cingular, for about ten years.
    The cost of service for three phones has increased, and the cost per call
    has dropped, thanks to several of the plan features. I have the on Cingular
    nationwide service instead of the true nationwide service. So far, this has
    served me well, since there are very few areas that are covered only by
    another carrier.

    This is a far cry from 1999, when analog service still was the major
    coverage,and each little area had it's own fees to add to a call. Still, I
    seldom had problems with an analog connection, and constantly have quality
    problems on a daily basis with GSM and TDMA connections.

    "Cary" <cary@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:_62dnfCD9qbDm7fcRVn-sw@comcast.com...
    >
    > "> I really don't care too much about the cost. What I DO care about is
    > > being able to get service wherever I am. Not much of a problem right
    > > now with my TDMA phone. BIG problem if I were to switch to a GSM-only
    > > phone. In my mind that is the huge "gotcha" in switching to GSM right
    > > now. And statements from Cingular like "100% coverage in 90 days"
    > > don't tell the whole story. Even if Cingular achieves 100% coverage,
    > > that doesn't mean diddly outside of the Cingular coverage area.....
    > > which is certainly not 100% of the country.
    > >
    > > Paul (staying TDMA for now)
    > > Paul Goelz
    > > Rochester Hills, Michigan
    >
    > No big issue here. Just use a GAIT phone. The t62u is still being sold
    in
    > Detroit area Cingular stores and on its website along with national GAIT
    > calling plans.
    > If it's bells, whistles and a color screen you want, you can have those
    too.
    > Just get a second GSM-only phone like an SE t637. When you are at home in
    > lower Michigan put the SIM in the t637 and use that. When you are heading
    > for parts unknown, put the SIM in the t62u and you will get service most
    > everywhere -- even in the UP where there is no GSM service now or even
    > planned. You can use the same car and travel chargers for both phones and
    a
    > GAIT SIM will work perfectly with the GSM-only phone.
    > --- Cary
    >
    >
    >
  30. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <cgg76d$q5q$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> on Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:48:49 -0400,
    "chuckk" <nospam@email.compuserve.com> wrote:

    >The GAIT phones can be a mixed blessing. It seems that Cingular (at least
    >with the Nokia 6340i defeated some of the interoperability featues.) In my
    >area, analog service is occasionally needed to fill in the holes.
    >Unfortunately, the preferences seem to be set such that the phone will
    >attempt to use a marginal GSM connection before it tries anything else.
    >After Cingular modified the Nokia programming, you cannot over-ride the
    >automatic selection as you can with the standard Nokia programming.

    If true, the solution is to buy a standard unlocked phone (e.g., on eBay).

    >Currently, GSM, TDMA, and Analog service are necessary to completely cover
    >my area. (Florida & Georgia).

    GSM overlay should now pretty much equal TDMA.

    --
    Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
    John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
  31. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <WTOWc.9459$54.138329@typhoon.sonic.net>, spamfilter0
    @navasgroup.com says...
    > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
    >
    > In <cgg76d$q5q$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> on Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:48:49 -0400,
    > "chuckk" <nospam@email.compuserve.com> wrote:
    >
    > >The GAIT phones can be a mixed blessing. It seems that Cingular (at least
    > >with the Nokia 6340i defeated some of the interoperability featues.) In my
    > >area, analog service is occasionally needed to fill in the holes.
    > >Unfortunately, the preferences seem to be set such that the phone will
    > >attempt to use a marginal GSM connection before it tries anything else.
    > >After Cingular modified the Nokia programming, you cannot over-ride the
    > >automatic selection as you can with the standard Nokia programming.
    >
    > If true, the solution is to buy a standard unlocked phone (e.g., on eBay).
    >
    > >Currently, GSM, TDMA, and Analog service are necessary to completely cover
    > >my area. (Florida & Georgia).
    >
    > GSM overlay should now pretty much equal TDMA.
    >
    >
    Sorry John but I beg to differ. This is certainly not true in Texas and
    I'd bet elsewhere. Most of my traveling is away from big cities and in
    the last few months have been in at least a third of Tx and as far as I
    could tell NONE of the non-Cingular non-ATTWS carriers in those areas
    have converted from TDMA to GSM. In fact there is very little
    difference now than a year ago--the phone is on TDMA almost everywhere
    (analog in a very few really low out of the way spots). The only place
    I've seen GSM working is in cities over 20k and that's not new--T-Mobile
    has been there all along. The only difference is now the phone looks for
    GSM first since my home area has converted. Other than the known areas
    I've seen the phone on GSM only twice--once in far east Texas and last
    week near Possum Kingdom lake--both times the phone would not dial out
    as if the carrier involved does not have a roaming agreement with
    Cingular for GSM. Interestingly both times in a Cellular One
    West/Western Wireless CDMA area--strange. A GSM-only phone would be a
    paperweight in most of rural Texas.
    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
  32. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <MPG.1b965de42bf7d10298979f@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net> on Wed, 25 Aug 2004
    14:28:00 GMT, Jud Hardcastle <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com>
    wrote:

    >In article <WTOWc.9459$54.138329@typhoon.sonic.net>, spamfilter0
    >@navasgroup.com says...

    >> >Currently, GSM, TDMA, and Analog service are necessary to completely cover
    >> >my area. (Florida & Georgia).
    >>
    >> GSM overlay should now pretty much equal TDMA.
    >>
    >Sorry John but I beg to differ. This is certainly not true in Texas and
    >I'd bet elsewhere. Most of my traveling is away from big cities and in
    >the last few months have been in at least a third of Tx and as far as I
    >could tell NONE of the non-Cingular non-ATTWS carriers in those areas
    >have converted from TDMA to GSM.

    Fair enough -- I was referring only to on-network coverage for ATTWS and
    Cingular. I should have made that clear, but failed to do so. Out here in
    California the ATTWS + Cingular/T-Mobile GSM coverage is very good in most
    urban areas, along most major highways, and in nearby non-urban areas. (ATTWS
    has free roaming on Cingular, which shares infrastructure with T-Mobile.)
    It's only in relatively remote areas that coverage breaks down, and for me at
    least that isn't a problem. ( For emergency use, I could simply get a cheap
    AMPS phone and use it unactivated, although I'm thinking of giving myself a
    Personal EPIRB for Christmas. :) I nonetheless realize that GSM coverage can
    be a significant issue for other people and/or in other parts of the country.

    --
    Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
    John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
  33. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<HU2Xc.9605$54.140113@typhoon.sonic.net>...
    > Fair enough -- I was referring only to on-network coverage for ATTWS and
    > Cingular.
    I am beginning to thing the GSM map for Cingular nation is a
    distortion. Compare ATTWS map for the Michigan UP vs. Cingular.
    ATTWS shows much less coverage. I suspect ATTWS is more accurate,
    since my Siemens S56 couldn't find a network most of the time there.
    Basically GSM didn't really do me a lot of good, since we were mostly
    in smaller towns of the western UP. But Cingular's map showed the
    whole western half covered. My TDMA phone worked, but there was a
    time or two when I had to disconnect my car antenna, and get down to
    the floor pan under the dash to get the phone to go from Extended Area
    to ROAM, and then I got a great signal and could make a call.
  34. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <d88e5101.0408262045.442c5817@posting.google.com>,
    klugja@hotmail.com says...
    > John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<HU2Xc.9605$54.140113@typhoon.sonic.net>...
    > > Fair enough -- I was referring only to on-network coverage for ATTWS and
    > > Cingular.
    > I am beginning to thing the GSM map for Cingular nation is a
    > distortion. Compare ATTWS map for the Michigan UP vs. Cingular.
    > ATTWS shows much less coverage. I suspect ATTWS is more accurate,
    > since my Siemens S56 couldn't find a network most of the time there.
    > Basically GSM didn't really do me a lot of good, since we were mostly
    > in smaller towns of the western UP. But Cingular's map showed the
    > whole western half covered. My TDMA phone worked, but there was a
    > time or two when I had to disconnect my car antenna, and get down to
    > the floor pan under the dash to get the phone to go from Extended Area
    > to ROAM, and then I got a great signal and could make a call.
    >
    "Is a joke" would be more accurate. Someone at Cingular seems to think
    all their partners have converted already. I really don't understand
    why Cingular has pushed this "it's done" thing through so quickly. It's
    so inaccurate now that it can only rebound against them when they sell a
    new customer a GSM-only phone based on that map and he/she discovers it
    doesn't cover what they show. If they had gone slower, keeping the GAIT
    plans for those that need full coverage NOW, and gradually updated the
    GSM-only maps as areas came on board, it would have been fine--and much
    more "professional". Maybe they didn't think their salespeople and CSR
    reps were capable of understanding/explaining two systems to potential
    customers well enough to not confuse them.
    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
  35. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    "Jud Hardcastle" <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com> wrote in
    message news:MPG.1b9913dd5bbfb5af9897a5@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
    > In article <d88e5101.0408262045.442c5817@posting.google.com>,
    > klugja@hotmail.com says...
    >> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
    >> news:<HU2Xc.9605$54.140113@typhoon.sonic.net>...
    >> > Fair enough -- I was referring only to on-network coverage for ATTWS
    >> > and
    >> > Cingular.
    >> I am beginning to thing the GSM map for Cingular nation is a
    >> distortion. Compare ATTWS map for the Michigan UP vs. Cingular.
    >> ATTWS shows much less coverage. I suspect ATTWS is more accurate,
    >> since my Siemens S56 couldn't find a network most of the time there.
    >> Basically GSM didn't really do me a lot of good, since we were mostly
    >> in smaller towns of the western UP. But Cingular's map showed the
    >> whole western half covered. My TDMA phone worked, but there was a
    >> time or two when I had to disconnect my car antenna, and get down to
    >> the floor pan under the dash to get the phone to go from Extended Area
    >> to ROAM, and then I got a great signal and could make a call.
    >>
    > "Is a joke" would be more accurate. Someone at Cingular seems to think
    > all their partners have converted already. I really don't understand
    > why Cingular has pushed this "it's done" thing through so quickly. It's
    > so inaccurate now that it can only rebound against them when they sell a
    > new customer a GSM-only phone based on that map and he/she discovers it
    > doesn't cover what they show. If they had gone slower, keeping the GAIT
    > plans for those that need full coverage NOW, and gradually updated the
    > GSM-only maps as areas came on board, it would have been fine--and much
    > more "professional". Maybe they didn't think their salespeople and CSR
    > reps were capable of understanding/explaining two systems to potential
    > customers well enough to not confuse them.

    > --
    >
    ..... suspect it also price driven - Cingular can sell more GSM only phones
    cheaper so they assume they can get more people to sign on the dotted line.
    Who cares if the customer ends up royally pissed off! Afterall Cingular
    Marketing got them to committ - they did their job and got their sales
    bonuses. Its the boneheads at the Network end that dropped the ball.
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