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swapping 9800pro for 6800GT - problem

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Anonymous
November 6, 2004 4:56:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance leap
for games seems worth the extra outlay.

Today, after researching which version of the 6800s to get I've come
across the 'broken' video hardware problem of the 6800. I use my PC to
play DVDs and other video files frequently so this is a problem.

I have a week to decide which card to swap the 9800 to. I can't decide.
The 6800 seemed perfect, but by all accounts is busted. I don't want an
ATi card, so my choice is pretty limited. What do I do?!

I was thinking of swapping the card to the cheapest Nvidia AGP card I
could find and purchase a 'fixed' version of the 6800 at a later date or
a 6600 AGP when/if they come out.

Are there any other Nvidia cards with similar performance to the 6800 GT
with fixed video hardware out, prefeably now or soon?

Thank you
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 4:56:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

The question is whether the features advertised here:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html

work now, or will ever be made to work for a 6800 card.

I have a 6800GT in an Athlon64 3500+ based system. In WinDVD6, with hardware
acceleration turned *off*, CPU utilization is on the order of 5-15% while
displaying a standard DVD (as shown by Task Manager in XP SP2). I'm using
the 66.81 drivers. Turning hardware acceleration *on* seems to give no clear
reduction in CPU utilization. Maybe other DVD player software would give
more interesting results.

With the "Step Into Liquid" HD WMV disk, it's 30-40%.

Would that keep you from buying the card?

Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.

"OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v43fiF2hkp9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
>I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
> originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
> quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance leap
> for games seems worth the extra outlay.
>
> Today, after researching which version of the 6800s to get I've come
> across the 'broken' video hardware problem of the 6800. I use my PC to
> play DVDs and other video files frequently so this is a problem.
>
> I have a week to decide which card to swap the 9800 to. I can't decide.
> The 6800 seemed perfect, but by all accounts is busted. I don't want an
> ATi card, so my choice is pretty limited. What do I do?!
>
> I was thinking of swapping the card to the cheapest Nvidia AGP card I
> could find and purchase a 'fixed' version of the 6800 at a later date or a
> 6600 AGP when/if they come out.
>
> Are there any other Nvidia cards with similar performance to the 6800 GT
> with fixed video hardware out, prefeably now or soon?
>
> Thank you
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 6:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

[This followup was posted to alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia and a
copy was sent to the cited author.]

In article <2v43fiF2hkp9rU1@uni-berlin.de>, sa@Sa.com says...
> I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
> originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
> quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance leap
> for games seems worth the extra outlay.
>
> Today, after researching which version of the 6800s to get I've come
> across the 'broken' video hardware problem of the 6800. I use my PC to
> play DVDs and other video files frequently so this is a problem.
>
> I have a week to decide which card to swap the 9800 to. I can't decide.
> The 6800 seemed perfect, but by all accounts is busted. I don't want an
> ATi card, so my choice is pretty limited. What do I do?!
>
> I was thinking of swapping the card to the cheapest Nvidia AGP card I
> could find and purchase a 'fixed' version of the 6800 at a later date or
> a 6600 AGP when/if they come out.
>
> Are there any other Nvidia cards with similar performance to the 6800 GT
> with fixed video hardware out, prefeably now or soon?
>
> Thank you
>
What problem are you referring too? I'm about to buy a machine with a
6800 GT. I haven't heard or read about any problems before I saw your
post.

Please let me know what the issue is.

Thanks
Related resources
November 6, 2004 6:38:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

the issue is moot unless you are trying to use it for encoding/decoding you
will still be able to watch DVD's with software like WinDVD
"OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v43fiF2hkp9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
>I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
> originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
> quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance leap
> for games seems worth the extra outlay.
>
> Today, after researching which version of the 6800s to get I've come
> across the 'broken' video hardware problem of the 6800. I use my PC to
> play DVDs and other video files frequently so this is a problem.
>
> I have a week to decide which card to swap the 9800 to. I can't decide.
> The 6800 seemed perfect, but by all accounts is busted. I don't want an
> ATi card, so my choice is pretty limited. What do I do?!
>
> I was thinking of swapping the card to the cheapest Nvidia AGP card I
> could find and purchase a 'fixed' version of the 6800 at a later date or a
> 6600 AGP when/if they come out.
>
> Are there any other Nvidia cards with similar performance to the 6800 GT
> with fixed video hardware out, prefeably now or soon?
>
> Thank you
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 8:46:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

>
> What problem are you referring too? I'm about to buy a machine with a
> 6800 GT. I haven't heard or read about any problems before I saw your
> post.
>
> Please let me know what the issue is.
>
> Thanks

There is an account of the problem on www.anandtech.com and other
hardware sites. I didn't bookmark, but heres one snippet.

http://www.tcmagazine.info/modules.php?name=News&file=a...
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 8:50:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

c wrote:
> the issue is moot unless you are trying to use it for encoding/decoding you
> will still be able to watch DVD's with software like WinDVD

I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the
PC to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance
of the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 8:58:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Bob Knowlden wrote:
> The question is whether the features advertised here:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html
>
> work now, or will ever be made to work for a 6800 card.
>
> I have a 6800GT in an Athlon64 3500+ based system. In WinDVD6, with hardware
> acceleration turned *off*, CPU utilization is on the order of 5-15% while
> displaying a standard DVD (as shown by Task Manager in XP SP2). I'm using
> the 66.81 drivers. Turning hardware acceleration *on* seems to give no clear
> reduction in CPU utilization. Maybe other DVD player software would give
> more interesting results.
>
> With the "Step Into Liquid" HD WMV disk, it's 30-40%.
>
> Would that keep you from buying the card?
>
> Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
>

You have a very high spec PC and I imagine it makes less difference for
you as the burden of the process is taken up by the fast processor.


It probably wouldn't keep me from buying the card if it was £50, but
spending upto £300 on a card which has hardware faults is not easy.
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 9:08:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <2v4fkaF2gjnsgU1@uni-berlin.de>, nkbob@comcast.net says...
> The question is whether the features advertised here:
>
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html
>
> work now, or will ever be made to work for a 6800 card.
>
> I have a 6800GT in an Athlon64 3500+ based system. In WinDVD6, with hardware
> acceleration turned *off*, CPU utilization is on the order of 5-15% while
> displaying a standard DVD (as shown by Task Manager in XP SP2). I'm using
> the 66.81 drivers. Turning hardware acceleration *on* seems to give no clear
> reduction in CPU utilization. Maybe other DVD player software would give
> more interesting results.
>
> With the "Step Into Liquid" HD WMV disk, it's 30-40%.
>
> Would that keep you from buying the card?
>
> Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
>
> "OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v43fiF2hkp9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
> > originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
> > quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance leap
> > for games seems worth the extra outlay.
> >
> > Today, after researching which version of the 6800s to get I've come
> > across the 'broken' video hardware problem of the 6800. I use my PC to
> > play DVDs and other video files frequently so this is a problem.
> >
> > I have a week to decide which card to swap the 9800 to. I can't decide.
> > The 6800 seemed perfect, but by all accounts is busted. I don't want an
> > ATi card, so my choice is pretty limited. What do I do?!
> >
> > I was thinking of swapping the card to the cheapest Nvidia AGP card I
> > could find and purchase a 'fixed' version of the 6800 at a later date or a
> > 6600 AGP when/if they come out.
> >
> > Are there any other Nvidia cards with similar performance to the 6800 GT
> > with fixed video hardware out, prefeably now or soon?
> >
> > Thank you
>
>
>
Let me ask a follow up question. I'm mainly into games but I also want
to create DVD's from my vast VCR tape collection. If I'm reading all
the research correctly, this issue is only relative to HD video and will
not be a problem for normal low def encoding. Is that correct???

The system I'm looking to buy is also a Athlon64 3500+ based system. Do
you think I will have a problem?

Thanks!
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 9:09:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <MPG.1bf6dd567bc11507989686@news-server.nycap.rr.com>,
funnel@REMOVE-THIS.berkshire.rr.com says...
> In article <2v4fkaF2gjnsgU1@uni-berlin.de>, nkbob@comcast.net says...
> > The question is whether the features advertised here:
> >
> > http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html
> >
> > work now, or will ever be made to work for a 6800 card.
> >
> > I have a 6800GT in an Athlon64 3500+ based system. In WinDVD6, with hardware
> > acceleration turned *off*, CPU utilization is on the order of 5-15% while
> > displaying a standard DVD (as shown by Task Manager in XP SP2). I'm using
> > the 66.81 drivers. Turning hardware acceleration *on* seems to give no clear
> > reduction in CPU utilization. Maybe other DVD player software would give
> > more interesting results.
> >
> > With the "Step Into Liquid" HD WMV disk, it's 30-40%.
> >
> > Would that keep you from buying the card?
> >
> > Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
> >
> > "OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v43fiF2hkp9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > >I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
> > > originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
> > > quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance leap
> > > for games seems worth the extra outlay.
> > >
> >
> Let me ask a follow up question. I'm mainly into games but I also want
> to create DVD's from my vast VCR tape collection. If I'm reading all
> the research correctly, this issue is only relative to HD video and will
> not be a problem for normal low def encoding. Is that correct???
>
> The system I'm looking to buy is also a Athlon64 3500+ based system. Do
> you think I will have a problem?
>
No, you won't have a problem. People are reading way too much into this.
The video processor on the 6800 series may at some point be able to
*assist* the CPU during the DVD compliant MPEG2 encoding process. The
idea is to improve the speed of the encoding.

Currently my P4 3.2E CPU encodes at approximately 1.75X real time. If
the help from the 6800 series video processor could cut that down to
real time that would be great (i.e. 1 hr. video, 1 hr. encode).

However, if that never happens its not that big of a deal to me.
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 9:58:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v4h6mF2h3o9aU1@uni-berlin.de...
>c wrote:
>> the issue is moot unless you are trying to use it for encoding/decoding
>> you will still be able to watch DVD's with software like WinDVD
>
> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the PC
> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance of
> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?

Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 10:52:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:58:31 GMT, Pete D wrote:
D
>>
>> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the PC
>> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance of
>> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
>
> Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.

I didn't originally think so until C mentioned it.
No-one seems to know for 100% how this hardware fault is effecting a
system. There is obviously a problem though judging by Nvidia statements on
the matter.
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 10:52:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Correct. Encoding movies uses the CPU. Decoding uses the video card. So,
encoding will not be affected by the 6800GTs (NV43 and 45-based cards have a
functional WMV decoder) affected by this hardware booboo.

"OVS" <Ovs@spam.com> wrote in message
news:60w3e7pqyeba$.1gmvwoi3q621y.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:58:31 GMT, Pete D wrote:
> D
>>>
>>> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the
>>> PC
>>> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance of
>>> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
>>
>> Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.
>
> I didn't originally think so until C mentioned it.
> No-one seems to know for 100% how this hardware fault is effecting a
> system. There is obviously a problem though judging by Nvidia statements
> on
> the matter.
Anonymous
November 6, 2004 10:52:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"RaceFace" <nospam@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:V7djd.3638$wj7.17235@news1.mts.net...
> Correct. Encoding movies uses the CPU. Decoding uses the video card.
> So, encoding will not be affected by the 6800GTs (NV43 and 45-based cards
> have a functional WMV decoder) affected by this hardware booboo.

I'm pretty sure it was supposed to do hardware encoding but the drivers
aren't out, or some such thing. Or maybe that's just the 6600.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 12:01:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"OVS" <Ovs@spam.com> wrote in message
news:60w3e7pqyeba$.1gmvwoi3q621y.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:58:31 GMT, Pete D wrote:
> D
>>>
>>> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the
>>> PC
>>> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance of
>>> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
>>
>> Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.
>
> I didn't originally think so until C mentioned it.
> No-one seems to know for 100% how this hardware fault is effecting a
> system. There is obviously a problem though judging by Nvidia statements
> on
> the matter.

It is basicly an "extra" feature that does not matter that much.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 12:04:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"OVS" <Ovs@spam.com> wrote in message
news:60w3e7pqyeba$.1gmvwoi3q621y.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:58:31 GMT, Pete D wrote:
> D
>>>
>>> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the
>>> PC
>>> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance of
>>> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
>>
>> Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.
>
> I didn't originally think so until C mentioned it.
> No-one seems to know for 100% how this hardware fault is effecting a
> system. There is obviously a problem though judging by Nvidia statements
> on
> the matter.

I swapped from a 9800 Pro to a plain 6800 and the improvement is huge,
around 60% better in 3D and flawless in 2D. I have the Leadtek card,
A400TDH.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 12:04:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

It won't use the card to decode wmv's, and hd wmv's in particular, which are
a bear for the cpu.

It was supposed to but it's broken.

However that was an extra over standard features.
--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 7:01:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:o Yajd.20925$K7.1014@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "OVS" <Ovs@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:60w3e7pqyeba$.1gmvwoi3q621y.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:58:31 GMT, Pete D wrote:
> > D
> >>>
> >>> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use the
> >>> PC
> >>> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance
of
> >>> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
> >>
> >> Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.
> >
> > I didn't originally think so until C mentioned it.
> > No-one seems to know for 100% how this hardware fault is effecting a
> > system. There is obviously a problem though judging by Nvidia statements
> > on
> > the matter.
>
> It is basicly an "extra" feature that does not matter that much.

It's not an "extra" feature. This feature was advertised, publicised,
and *heavily* marketed before and during the launch of the card.
Here's what the my Leadtek 6800GT box says:
"Support MPEG 1/2/4 encode/decode and WMV9 decode"
"The Industry's First On Chip Video Processor delivers unmatched
video performace and features"

The MPEG 2 decode supposedly works, but not in the drivers I'm using: 61.77,
but the WMV9 decode does not work at all as far as I know. Playing the
Step Into Liquid 1080 file is impossible on my computer. It gives me 3.3
frames per second, with 100% CPU usage.
The Encoding feature needs to be worked on with collaboration with software
makers such as Adobe, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not an "extra" feature that doesn't work,
it's a feature I paid for and expected to get. If it doesn't work by the
end of the month (as Nvidia have stated will happen), then I'm returning
it for a refund and holding onto the money until they release versions
of the card that work properly.

So to the Original Poster, my advise is gon't get a 6800 card until
this problem is remedied, unless all you want to do is play games and
watch DVDs.

Vu.

btw - my system specs for those interested:
AMD Athlon XP2600+
Gigabyte GA-7DXR+
1GB RAM (PC2100)
Leadtek 6800GT
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 10:39:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Running the same file I run around 49% idle with a 6800 plain with a
Northwood 2.8Gig. 70.41 driver.

"Vu" <v_le@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:G6hjd.22164$K7.12648@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
> news:o Yajd.20925$K7.1014@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "OVS" <Ovs@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:60w3e7pqyeba$.1gmvwoi3q621y.dlg@40tude.net...
>> > On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:58:31 GMT, Pete D wrote:
>> > D
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll mostly be using it for games and DVD playback, but I also use
>> >>> the
>> >>> PC
>> >>> to encode video (mostly Homevids) to DVD format. Will the perfomance
> of
>> >>> the encoding be vastly slower compared to using a ATi 9800 Pro?
>> >>
>> >> Encoding does not use the card and will not be affected.
>> >
>> > I didn't originally think so until C mentioned it.
>> > No-one seems to know for 100% how this hardware fault is effecting a
>> > system. There is obviously a problem though judging by Nvidia
>> > statements
>> > on
>> > the matter.
>>
>> It is basicly an "extra" feature that does not matter that much.
>
> It's not an "extra" feature. This feature was advertised, publicised,
> and *heavily* marketed before and during the launch of the card.
> Here's what the my Leadtek 6800GT box says:
> "Support MPEG 1/2/4 encode/decode and WMV9 decode"
> "The Industry's First On Chip Video Processor delivers unmatched
> video performace and features"
>
> The MPEG 2 decode supposedly works, but not in the drivers I'm using:
> 61.77,
> but the WMV9 decode does not work at all as far as I know. Playing the
> Step Into Liquid 1080 file is impossible on my computer. It gives me 3.3
> frames per second, with 100% CPU usage.
> The Encoding feature needs to be worked on with collaboration with
> software
> makers such as Adobe, etc.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, it's not an "extra" feature that doesn't work,
> it's a feature I paid for and expected to get. If it doesn't work by the
> end of the month (as Nvidia have stated will happen), then I'm returning
> it for a refund and holding onto the money until they release versions
> of the card that work properly.
>
> So to the Original Poster, my advise is gon't get a 6800 card until
> this problem is remedied, unless all you want to do is play games and
> watch DVDs.
>
> Vu.
>
> btw - my system specs for those interested:
> AMD Athlon XP2600+
> Gigabyte GA-7DXR+
> 1GB RAM (PC2100)
> Leadtek 6800GT
>
>
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 11:22:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
up to 90-100 per cent.

--

Vu.
November 7, 2004 4:32:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"WhoKnows" <funnel@REMOVE-THIS.berkshire.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bf6dd567bc11507989686@news-server.nycap.rr.com...
> In article <2v4fkaF2gjnsgU1@uni-berlin.de>, nkbob@comcast.net says...
>> The question is whether the features advertised here:
>>
>> http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html
>>
>> work now, or will ever be made to work for a 6800 card.
>>
>> I have a 6800GT in an Athlon64 3500+ based system. In WinDVD6, with
>> hardware
>> acceleration turned *off*, CPU utilization is on the order of 5-15% while
>> displaying a standard DVD (as shown by Task Manager in XP SP2). I'm using
>> the 66.81 drivers. Turning hardware acceleration *on* seems to give no
>> clear
>> reduction in CPU utilization. Maybe other DVD player software would give
>> more interesting results.
>>
>> With the "Step Into Liquid" HD WMV disk, it's 30-40%.
>>
>> Would that keep you from buying the card?
>>
>> Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
>>
>> "OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v43fiF2hkp9rU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> >I have a faulty ATi 9800 Pro which I have just received an RMA for. I
>> > originally intened to swap the card for a Nvidia 6800 GT. The excess is
>> > quite a lot, but I'm sick with dealing with ATI and the performance
>> > leap
>> > for games seems worth the extra outlay.
>> >
>> > Today, after researching which version of the 6800s to get I've come
>> > across the 'broken' video hardware problem of the 6800. I use my PC to
>> > play DVDs and other video files frequently so this is a problem.
>> >
>> > I have a week to decide which card to swap the 9800 to. I can't decide.
>> > The 6800 seemed perfect, but by all accounts is busted. I don't want an
>> > ATi card, so my choice is pretty limited. What do I do?!
>> >
>> > I was thinking of swapping the card to the cheapest Nvidia AGP card I
>> > could find and purchase a 'fixed' version of the 6800 at a later date
>> > or a
>> > 6600 AGP when/if they come out.
>> >
>> > Are there any other Nvidia cards with similar performance to the 6800
>> > GT
>> > with fixed video hardware out, prefeably now or soon?
>> >
>> > Thank you
>>
>>
>>
> Let me ask a follow up question. I'm mainly into games but I also want
> to create DVD's from my vast VCR tape collection. If I'm reading all
> the research correctly, this issue is only relative to HD video and will
> not be a problem for normal low def encoding. Is that correct???

Yes, that is correct.

Its amazing how much "noise" there is about this "problem" on the web. It
only affects HD WMV files. Everything else works perfectly. And the HD WMV
problem will be improved later with new drivers.

I wonder how many people really do have HDTV's for this to be a problem
anyway!

Chip
November 7, 2004 4:39:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"OVS" <sa@Sa.com> wrote in message news:2v4hmhF2h7hd6U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Bob Knowlden wrote:
>> The question is whether the features advertised here:
>>
>> http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_on-chip-video.html
>>
>> work now, or will ever be made to work for a 6800 card.
>>
>> I have a 6800GT in an Athlon64 3500+ based system. In WinDVD6, with
>> hardware acceleration turned *off*, CPU utilization is on the order of
>> 5-15% while displaying a standard DVD (as shown by Task Manager in XP
>> SP2). I'm using the 66.81 drivers. Turning hardware acceleration *on*
>> seems to give no clear reduction in CPU utilization. Maybe other DVD
>> player software would give more interesting results.
>>
>> With the "Step Into Liquid" HD WMV disk, it's 30-40%.
>>
>> Would that keep you from buying the card?
>>
>> Address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
>>
>
> You have a very high spec PC and I imagine it makes less difference for
> you as the burden of the process is taken up by the fast processor.
>
>
> It probably wouldn't keep me from buying the card if it was £50, but
> spending upto £300 on a card which has hardware faults is not easy.
>

Don't let it bother you. This is a completely over-hyped issue. Yes there
may be 1 or 3 people around who bought their card specifically to watch HD
WMV's on their HDTV. Do you know anyone who falls into that category? I
don't. I don't even own an HDTV and I don't know anyone who does.

Every other aspect of the card works perfectly as advertised. Even the HD
WMV's issue will be improved soon with new drivers.

And even if it *wasn't* improved, you can still watch HD WMV's without
problem with the card: its just that the CPU utilization is higher than
people would like. But with any P4 with Hyper Threading, or with a good
(2GHz +) Athlon, you can watch smooth, skip-free HD WMVs even with a
"broken" 6800. Just avoid Windows Media Player 10, which is a complete pig
on CPU usage. NVDVD, Nero Showtime etc all give me 75%-80% CPU and perfect
playback. This will probably drop to < 50% with new drivers.

This is no big deal and should never have been hyped to the extent that it
has.

Chip.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 4:39:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:2v6mp0F2iom9gU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Don't let it bother you. This is a completely over-hyped issue. Yes
> there may be 1 or 3 people around who bought their card specifically to
> watch HD WMV's on their HDTV. Do you know anyone who falls into that
> category? I don't. I don't even own an HDTV and I don't know anyone who
> does.
>
> Every other aspect of the card works perfectly as advertised. Even the HD
> WMV's issue will be improved soon with new drivers.
>
> And even if it *wasn't* improved, you can still watch HD WMV's without
> problem with the card: its just that the CPU utilization is higher than
> people would like. But with any P4 with Hyper Threading, or with a good
> (2GHz +) Athlon, you can watch smooth, skip-free HD WMVs even with a
> "broken" 6800. Just avoid Windows Media Player 10, which is a complete
> pig on CPU usage. NVDVD, Nero Showtime etc all give me 75%-80% CPU and
> perfect playback. This will probably drop to < 50% with new drivers.
>
> This is no big deal and should never have been hyped to the extent that it
> has.
>
> Chip.

Stupid question... but how do you use NVDVD to play an HD WMV? Burn it to a
DVD and watch it that way? Seems to be skirting the issue.

Also.. the point was we SHOULDN'T be getting 75-80% CPU usage. If the card
wasn't broken, we'd be getting 5-15% CPU usage. Just because you don't know
anyone that needs that feature of the card to work doesn't mean this isn't a
problem.

New drivers will NOT improve this issue either. It's a hardware problem.
The WMV decoder doesn't work. Drivers will not fix that, unless they've
found a way for drivers to modify silicon. Initially it was rumored there
was a driver fix, but all the recent articles have said that this isn't
possible, and will not happen.

On the box of my eVGA 6800GT, there's a blurb from nVidia that lists, among
other things, "Better Videos: Playback High Definition videos / Smooth
stutter-free playback" To me that implies that the video card will enable
such things. The fact is that it doesn't, and thus doesn't work as
advertised, makes me mad. Even though I *may* not use this feature, I
should be able to if I want to, because it was advertised as being able to
do it.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 5:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

RaceFace wrote:

>
> "Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:2v6mp0F2iom9gU1@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> Don't let it bother you. This is a completely over-hyped issue. Yes
>> there may be 1 or 3 people around who bought their card specifically to
>> watch HD WMV's on their HDTV. Do you know anyone who falls into that
>> category? I don't. I don't even own an HDTV and I don't know anyone
>> who does.
>>
>> Every other aspect of the card works perfectly as advertised. Even the
>> HD WMV's issue will be improved soon with new drivers.
>>
>> And even if it *wasn't* improved, you can still watch HD WMV's without
>> problem with the card: its just that the CPU utilization is higher than
>> people would like. But with any P4 with Hyper Threading, or with a good
>> (2GHz +) Athlon, you can watch smooth, skip-free HD WMVs even with a
>> "broken" 6800. Just avoid Windows Media Player 10, which is a complete
>> pig on CPU usage. NVDVD, Nero Showtime etc all give me 75%-80% CPU and
>> perfect playback. This will probably drop to < 50% with new drivers.
>>
>> This is no big deal and should never have been hyped to the extent that
>> it has.
>>
>> Chip.
>
> Stupid question... but how do you use NVDVD to play an HD WMV? Burn it to
> a
> DVD and watch it that way? Seems to be skirting the issue.

IIRC NVDVD plays files just fine. Also does a decent job of decoding ATSC.

> Also.. the point was we SHOULDN'T be getting 75-80% CPU usage. If the
> card
> wasn't broken, we'd be getting 5-15% CPU usage. Just because you don't
> know anyone that needs that feature of the card to work doesn't mean this
> isn't a problem.
>
> New drivers will NOT improve this issue either. It's a hardware problem.
> The WMV decoder doesn't work. Drivers will not fix that, unless they've
> found a way for drivers to modify silicon. Initially it was rumored there
> was a driver fix, but all the recent articles have said that this isn't
> possible, and will not happen.

Not a "driver fix" but a microcode fix. Might or might not be doable
depending on exactly what the problem is.

> On the box of my eVGA 6800GT, there's a blurb from nVidia that lists,
> among
> other things, "Better Videos: Playback High Definition videos / Smooth
> stutter-free playback" To me that implies that the video card will enable
> such things. The fact is that it doesn't, and thus doesn't work as
> advertised, makes me mad. Even though I *may* not use this feature, I
> should be able to if I want to, because it was advertised as being able to
> do it.

WMV and HD are different issues. All HD is not WMV and all WMV is not HD.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 9:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"RaceFace" <nospam@myplace.com> wrote
> Even though I *may* not use this feature, I should be able to if I want
> to, because it was advertised as being able to do it.

Yes, I don't see why the apologists can't grasp that. Guess they are
saturated from the typical pc failings such that they no longer allow
themselves to expect complete products.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 10:48:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Why would I want to do that?

"Vu" <v_le@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
> up to 90-100 per cent.
>
> --
>
> Vu.
>
>
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 10:48:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:G_ujd.24598$K7.17997@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Why would I want to do that?
>
> "Vu" <v_le@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
>> up to 90-100 per cent.

Perhaps to discover the effect on those with AMD's?


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
November 8, 2004 12:33:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"RaceFace" <nospam@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:Rerjd.3796$wj7.18757@news1.mts.net...
>
> "Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:2v6mp0F2iom9gU1@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> Don't let it bother you. This is a completely over-hyped issue. Yes
>> there may be 1 or 3 people around who bought their card specifically to
>> watch HD WMV's on their HDTV. Do you know anyone who falls into that
>> category? I don't. I don't even own an HDTV and I don't know anyone
>> who does.
>>
>> Every other aspect of the card works perfectly as advertised. Even the
>> HD WMV's issue will be improved soon with new drivers.
>>
>> And even if it *wasn't* improved, you can still watch HD WMV's without
>> problem with the card: its just that the CPU utilization is higher than
>> people would like. But with any P4 with Hyper Threading, or with a good
>> (2GHz +) Athlon, you can watch smooth, skip-free HD WMVs even with a
>> "broken" 6800. Just avoid Windows Media Player 10, which is a complete
>> pig on CPU usage. NVDVD, Nero Showtime etc all give me 75%-80% CPU and
>> perfect playback. This will probably drop to < 50% with new drivers.
>>
>> This is no big deal and should never have been hyped to the extent that
>> it has.
>>
>> Chip.
>
> Stupid question... but how do you use NVDVD to play an HD WMV? Burn it to
> a DVD and watch it that way? Seems to be skirting the issue.

Just open the file and it plays.

> Also.. the point was we SHOULDN'T be getting 75-80% CPU usage. If the
> card wasn't broken, we'd be getting 5-15% CPU usage. Just because you
> don't know anyone that needs that feature of the card to work doesn't mean
> this isn't a problem.

I agree the CPU utlization should be lower. Clearly there is a "problem" in
that respect. Whether that equates to a problem that actually matters, very
much depends on each person's point of view.

> New drivers will NOT improve this issue either. It's a hardware problem.
> The WMV decoder doesn't work.

You state these as facts, but there is no conclusive evidence that this is
true. What nVidia are saying is that the hardware *does* enable the
acceleration of HD WMV's, but that the capability is not enabled in the
current drivers. Whether this is true, we don't know. But that's what they
are saying. The only admission of any potential fault from them was that
they said that the early versions of the silicon are not offloading as much
work off the CPU as they had hoped for. Whatever that means.

> Drivers will not fix that, unless they've found a way for drivers to
> modify silicon. Initially it was rumored there was a driver fix, but all
> the recent articles have said that this isn't possible, and will not
> happen.

See above. What you say may be true. Equally, it may not.

> On the box of my eVGA 6800GT, there's a blurb from nVidia that lists,
> among other things, "Better Videos: Playback High Definition videos /
> Smooth stutter-free playback" To me that implies that the video card will
> enable such things.

I don't mean to be picky, but actually, it does. Its only WMV's that have
the problem. I do agree with you though that the chips really should do
what they were advertised as doing, and nVidia did actually say that they
would enable accelerated decoding of HD WMV's.

> The fact is that it doesn't, and thus doesn't work as advertised,

.... yet.

> makes me mad. Even though I *may* not use this feature, I should be able
> to if I want to, because it was advertised as being able to do it.

I do understand that. I feel the same in fact, and I have made my
disappointment known on other forums. My only point here was that when you
objectively analyze the situation, the problem - for the vast majority of
people - is not that big a deal. Its a bit of a bandwaggon that people are
jumping on.

If someone genuinely bought their card because they wanted a card to decode
HD WMV's, they have solid grounds to be unhappy and to complain. Unless of
course, new drivers do fix the problem.

Chip
Anonymous
November 8, 2004 9:58:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

>> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
>>> up to 90-100 per cent.
>
> Perhaps to discover the effect on those with AMD's?
>
>

HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Anonymous
November 8, 2004 9:58:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:LlPjd.28329$K7.5499@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
>>>> up to 90-100 per cent.
>>
>> Perhaps to discover the effect on those with AMD's?
>>
>>
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Heh. Well, for the record, I wasn't making fun. :-) I run an AMD. I just
thought that was the point. Though I'm not really sure.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
November 9, 2004 1:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:xlTjd.90633$bk1.16807@fed1read05...
>
> "Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
> news:LlPjd.28329$K7.5499@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>>> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
>>>>> up to 90-100 per cent.
>>>
>>> Perhaps to discover the effect on those with AMD's?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> HAHAHAHAHAHA!
> Heh. Well, for the record, I wasn't making fun. :-) I run an AMD. I just
> thought that was the point. Though I'm not really sure.

I can't figure out whether the low (e.g.50%) CPU utilization with Intel HT
processors is wrong, i.e. its really nearer 100%, and is being incorrectly
reported by Windoze. Or whether it really is 50% or less.

Both scenarios seem unlikely. Scenario 1 seems unlikely since all CPU
monitoring tools seem to be saying the same thing, and we have the empical
evidence of smooth playback and no dropped frames on Intel HT kit.

On the other hand, scenario 2 seems unlikely since we know Intel CPU's are
not 2x more powerful than AMD CPU's.

Very puzzling.

Chip
Anonymous
November 9, 2004 1:32:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:2vbkhpF2jinj7U1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
> news:xlTjd.90633$bk1.16807@fed1read05...
>>
>> "Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>> news:LlPjd.28329$K7.5499@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>>>> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
>>>>>> up to 90-100 per cent.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps to discover the effect on those with AMD's?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> HAHAHAHAHAHA!
>> Heh. Well, for the record, I wasn't making fun. :-) I run an AMD. I just
>> thought that was the point. Though I'm not really sure.
>
> I can't figure out whether the low (e.g.50%) CPU utilization with Intel HT
> processors is wrong, i.e. its really nearer 100%, and is being incorrectly
> reported by Windoze. Or whether it really is 50% or less.
>
> Both scenarios seem unlikely. Scenario 1 seems unlikely since all CPU
> monitoring tools seem to be saying the same thing, and we have the empical
> evidence of smooth playback and no dropped frames on Intel HT kit.
>
> On the other hand, scenario 2 seems unlikely since we know Intel CPU's are
> not 2x more powerful than AMD CPU's.
>
> Very puzzling.
>
> Chip

Perhaps I can shed some light. With my p4 3.06HT, and Media Player 10,
running the Step Into Liquid Demo gets me 50-60% CPU showing up. Yes, more
than 50, even though the MP10 process is only running on one virtual CPU.
Since it's stuttering.. I'm assuming the CPU usage really is close to 100%,
and the task manager is just reporting it semi-inaccurately.
November 9, 2004 1:44:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> and we have the empical evidence ...

or empirical, even. LOL
November 9, 2004 6:55:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"RaceFace" <nospam@myplace.com> wrote in message
news:2c4kd.4954$wj7.22577@news1.mts.net...
>
>
>
> "Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:2vbkhpF2jinj7U1@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> "Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
>> news:xlTjd.90633$bk1.16807@fed1read05...
>>>
>>> "Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>>> news:LlPjd.28329$K7.5499@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>>>>>> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>>> Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
>>>>>>> up to 90-100 per cent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps to discover the effect on those with AMD's?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HAHAHAHAHAHA!
>>> Heh. Well, for the record, I wasn't making fun. :-) I run an AMD. I just
>>> thought that was the point. Though I'm not really sure.
>>
>> I can't figure out whether the low (e.g.50%) CPU utilization with Intel
>> HT processors is wrong, i.e. its really nearer 100%, and is being
>> incorrectly reported by Windoze. Or whether it really is 50% or less.
>>
>> Both scenarios seem unlikely. Scenario 1 seems unlikely since all CPU
>> monitoring tools seem to be saying the same thing, and we have the
>> empical evidence of smooth playback and no dropped frames on Intel HT
>> kit.
>>
>> On the other hand, scenario 2 seems unlikely since we know Intel CPU's
>> are not 2x more powerful than AMD CPU's.
>>
>> Very puzzling.
>>
>> Chip
>
> Perhaps I can shed some light. With my p4 3.06HT, and Media Player 10,
> running the Step Into Liquid Demo gets me 50-60% CPU showing up. Yes,
> more than 50, even though the MP10 process is only running on one virtual
> CPU. Since it's stuttering.. I'm assuming the CPU usage really is close to
> 100%, and the task manager is just reporting it semi-inaccurately.
>

Thanks. That does indeed shed a lot of light. I hadn't realized that it
stuttered on Intel too. I think it must be running at close to 100% then.
Which would make sense I guess.

Chip
Anonymous
November 9, 2004 7:16:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> I can't figure out whether the low (e.g.50%) CPU utilization with
> Intel HT processors is wrong, i.e. its really nearer 100%, and is
> being incorrectly reported by Windoze. Or whether it really is 50% or
> less.

> Both scenarios seem unlikely. Scenario 1 seems unlikely since all CPU
> monitoring tools seem to be saying the same thing, and we have the

All CPU monitoring tools get their data from the same system calls.

This has to do with the way Windows sees a HT system. It sees two
processors, so 100% CPU usage means that both of the virtual processors are
being utilized to the max. A typical single-threaded application cannot
run on both processors, so when the program is running to the max, you'll
see figures around and slightly above 50% because the single-threaded
program is using 100% of it's single processor (100% / 2 = 50%) and some
other programs are lightly using the second processor.
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 7:14:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Because when it does jump up to 90% then you know your video processor
isn't working, as Nvidia advertised.

Vu.


"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:G_ujd.24598$K7.17997@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Why would I want to do that?
>
> "Vu" <v_le@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2Xkjd.22916$K7.20470@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Run it without Hyperthreading. The CPU usage will probably jump
> > up to 90-100 per cent.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Vu.
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
November 13, 2004 7:19:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> >
> > Perhaps I can shed some light. With my p4 3.06HT, and Media Player 10,
> > running the Step Into Liquid Demo gets me 50-60% CPU showing up. Yes,
> > more than 50, even though the MP10 process is only running on one
virtual
> > CPU. Since it's stuttering.. I'm assuming the CPU usage really is close
to
> > 100%, and the task manager is just reporting it semi-inaccurately.
> >
>
> Thanks. That does indeed shed a lot of light. I hadn't realized that it
> stuttered on Intel too. I think it must be running at close to 100% then.
> Which would make sense I guess.

I also have a Dual 1GHz PIII system, and when I play the Step Into Liquid
demo
it's performance is worse than my 2600+ Athlon, although the CPU usage never
goes above about 60%. However the rest of that system is pretty slow:
Geforce 2 mx400, 1GB PC133 SDRAM, etc

Vu.
!