Gforce 4 mx

[rene]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Hi there,

Is it possible to play 'prince of persia, the sands of time' (
requires Geforce 3 or higher ) on a Windows XP PC ( including a Gforce
4 MX videocard )

Kind regards, Rene & his children

 

[zulu]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Rene" <rvissers@hetnet.nl> skrev i en meddelelse
news:7d9f9387.0412281001.70ae136e@posting.google.com...
> Hi there,
>
> Is it possible to play 'prince of persia, the sands of time' (
> requires Geforce 3 or higher ) on a Windows XP PC ( including a Gforce
> 4 MX videocard )
>
> Kind regards, Rene & his children

Probably not. GF4 MX is only DX7, whereas GF3 is DX8.

A second hand GF4 Ti would be an nice inexpensive upgrade.

Zulu

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Zulu wrote:
> "Rene" <rvissers@hetnet.nl> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:7d9f9387.0412281001.70ae136e@posting.google.com...
>
>>Hi there,
>>
>>Is it possible to play 'prince of persia, the sands of time' (
>>requires Geforce 3 or higher ) on a Windows XP PC ( including a Gforce
>>4 MX videocard )
>>
>>Kind regards, Rene & his children
>
>
> Probably not. GF4 MX is only DX7, whereas GF3 is DX8.
>
> A second hand GF4 Ti would be an nice inexpensive upgrade.
>
> Zulu
>
>

Yeah, ok, both of those cards support at least directx 8.0
the geforce3 supports 8.0 v1.1 and below, and geforce4 supports 8.1....
I think you got your lines crossed?

 

[zulu]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> skrev i en meddelelse
news:V0iAd.22759$Tn1.807796@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Zulu wrote:
>> "Rene" <rvissers@hetnet.nl> skrev i en meddelelse
>> news:7d9f9387.0412281001.70ae136e@posting.google.com...
>>
>>>Hi there,
>>>
>>>Is it possible to play 'prince of persia, the sands of time' (
>>>requires Geforce 3 or higher ) on a Windows XP PC ( including a Gforce
>>>4 MX videocard )
>>
>> Probably not. GF4 MX is only DX7, whereas GF3 is DX8.
>>
>> A second hand GF4 Ti would be an nice inexpensive upgrade.
>>
>> Zulu
>
> Yeah, ok, both of those cards support at least directx 8.0
> the geforce3 supports 8.0 v1.1 and below, and geforce4 supports 8.1....

And?

> I think you got your lines crossed?

Crossed what?

Read my post againg please.

GF4 MX is feature-wise just a higher clocked GF2 = only DX7.
Whereas GF3 and GF4 Ti are DX8.

The game requires at least a GF3 = it requires a DX8 card.

I sugest that Rene buys a second hand GF4 Ti because it gives best bang for
the bucks...

See my point?

Zulu

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Zulu wrote:
> "Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:V0iAd.22759$Tn1.807796@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>>Zulu wrote:
>>
>>>"Rene" <rvissers@hetnet.nl> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>news:7d9f9387.0412281001.70ae136e@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi there,
>>>>
>>>>Is it possible to play 'prince of persia, the sands of time' (
>>>>requires Geforce 3 or higher ) on a Windows XP PC ( including a Gforce
>>>>4 MX videocard )
>>>
>>>Probably not. GF4 MX is only DX7, whereas GF3 is DX8.
>>>
>>>A second hand GF4 Ti would be an nice inexpensive upgrade.
>>>
>>>Zulu
>>
>>Yeah, ok, both of those cards support at least directx 8.0
>>the geforce3 supports 8.0 v1.1 and below, and geforce4 supports 8.1....
>
>
> And?

And, the gf4 mx is NOT directx 7, it's 8, I know, I use a gf4 mx440.
>
>
>>I think you got your lines crossed?
>
>
> Crossed what?
>
> Read my post againg please.
>
> GF4 MX is feature-wise just a higher clocked GF2 = only DX7.
> Whereas GF3 and GF4 Ti are DX8.
>

ti's are dx8.1 gf2 is dx7 gf4 mx's are 8.1 buth with slower core and
memory/bandwidth.
> The game requires at least a GF3 = it requires a DX8 card.
>
> I sugest that Rene buys a second hand GF4 Ti because it gives best bang for
> the bucks...
>
> See my point?
>
> Zulu
>

No, I don't see your point... Rene asked if prince of persia would run
on a gf4 mx, not if he should buy another card. Reread rene's post please.

Rene, you can run prince of persia with this card, but you may have to
drop ALL details to low, turn off aa and af, and you might have to get a
software shader (much like the old directx software renderer). Zulu, you
are correct in suggesting the they purchase a ti, that would be a good
investement, but what if they can't spend the money right now, or just
don't want to upgrade yet (maybe upgrading entire computer in near future)?

Your answer, although logical, is purely subjective.

 

[zulu]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> skrev i en meddelelse
news:ZMkAd.20072$nV.622369@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> And, the gf4 mx is NOT directx 7, it's 8, I know, I use a gf4 mx440.
>
> ti's are dx8.1 gf2 is dx7 gf4 mx's are 8.1 buth with slower core and
> memory/bandwidth.

GF4 MX is only partial DX8, as it as based on the NV17 core and only
supports vertex shading 1.1 partially. It has no support for pixel shaders.

Quote from http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=1583&p=6:
" More specifically, the GeForce4 MX features no DirectX 8 pixel shaders and
only limited support for vertex shaders. The chip does support NVIDIA's
Shading Rasterizer (NSR) from the original GeForce2 but that's definitely a
step back from the programmable nature of the GeForce3 core. "

Read here as well:
http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=3&var1=88&var2=0

That means, that most games that requires a DX8 based card, will not run
with a GF4 MX.

Zulu

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Zulu wrote:
> "Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:ZMkAd.20072$nV.622369@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>>And, the gf4 mx is NOT directx 7, it's 8, I know, I use a gf4 mx440.
>>
>>ti's are dx8.1 gf2 is dx7 gf4 mx's are 8.1 buth with slower core and
>>memory/bandwidth.
>
>
> GF4 MX is only partial DX8, as it as based on the NV17 core and only
> supports vertex shading 1.1 partially. It has no support for pixel shaders.

My mistake...
>
> Quote from http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=1583&p=6:
> " More specifically, the GeForce4 MX features no DirectX 8 pixel shaders and
> only limited support for vertex shaders. The chip does support NVIDIA's
> Shading Rasterizer (NSR) from the original GeForce2 but that's definitely a
> step back from the programmable nature of the GeForce3 core. "
>
> Read here as well:
> http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=3&var1=88&var2=0
>
> That means, that most games that requires a DX8 based card, will not run
> with a GF4 MX.
>
> Zulu
>
>

Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of
course) at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all
games that "require directx 9.0a and above".

Which would lead me to believe that rene should be able to run prince of
persia. Ok, the gf4 has PARTIAL dx8 support, but remember that this
doesn't really have any bearing on if the game runs or not, simply if it
runs better/smoother. As long as dx8 is installed, I see no viable
problems running any game.

I myself would try out half life 2, but I've been hearing/reading too
many horror stories about nvidia drivers not being optomized for it, so
in that case, I can't really pipe up about it.

My advice to rene, install directx8 (you probably already have it, if
not, it's on the disc) and play away... If it doesn't meet up to your
standards, then look to getting a better card.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> wrote in message
news:4QmAd.21025$nV.643422@news20.bellglobal.com...

>>
>> That means, that most games that requires a DX8 based card, will not run
>> with a GF4 MX.
>>
>> Zulu
>
> Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
> REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of course)
> at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all games that
> "require directx 9.0a and above".
>

The key point here is weather they *require* a DX8/9 card or *recommend* a
DX8/9 card. There are a few games out there that *require* a DX8 card.
None (that I know of yet) that *require* a DX9 card. A few examples are
Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell 2. This is on a hardware level and is
different to requiring DX9 software to run the game. Alot of games
*require* DX9 software but will fall back to DX7 hardware to play, like all
those you mention above.

BTW. I've played HL2 on a XP2200+ 512Meg RAM and GF4MX420SE and it plays.
Looks damn ugly compared to my 9800pro but it does play.

> Which would lead me to believe that rene should be able to run prince of
> persia. Ok, the gf4 has PARTIAL dx8 support, but remember that this
> doesn't really have any bearing on if the game runs or not, simply if it
> runs better/smoother. As long as dx8 is installed, I see no viable
> problems running any game.

The problem that you can't see is this specific game requires pixel shaders
which the GF4MX can't do. Therefore, will not play. The game had no option
to fall back and drop the pixel shaders. It won't work. You can try and
fake the pixel shaders using a 3rd party app like 3d analyze but at the end
of the day the card would have been slow playing the game in the first place
if it could play it, if you are going to start faking hardware requirements
in software it is going to be worse than slow.

>
> I myself would try out half life 2, but I've been hearing/reading too many
> horror stories about nvidia drivers not being optomized for it, so in that
> case, I can't really pipe up about it.

Give it a go. Great game. Just don't play it on a dx8/9 card cause you
will be very disappointed with the quality of a dx7 card afterwards.

>
> My advice to rene, install directx8 (you probably already have it, if not,
> it's on the disc) and play away... If it doesn't meet up to your
> standards, then look to getting a better card.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

cowboyz wrote:
> "Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> wrote in message
> news:4QmAd.21025$nV.643422@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
>
>>>That means, that most games that requires a DX8 based card, will not run
>>>with a GF4 MX.
>>>
>>>Zulu
>>
>>Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
>>REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of course)
>>at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all games that
>>"require directx 9.0a and above".
>>
>
>
> The key point here is weather they *require* a DX8/9 card or *recommend* a
> DX8/9 card. There are a few games out there that *require* a DX8 card.
> None (that I know of yet) that *require* a DX9 card. A few examples are
> Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell 2. This is on a hardware level and is
> different to requiring DX9 software to run the game. Alot of games
> *require* DX9 software but will fall back to DX7 hardware to play, like all
> those you mention above.
>
> BTW. I've played HL2 on a XP2200+ 512Meg RAM and GF4MX420SE and it plays.
> Looks damn ugly compared to my 9800pro but it does play.
>
>
>>Which would lead me to believe that rene should be able to run prince of
>>persia. Ok, the gf4 has PARTIAL dx8 support, but remember that this
>>doesn't really have any bearing on if the game runs or not, simply if it
>>runs better/smoother. As long as dx8 is installed, I see no viable
>>problems running any game.
>
>
> The problem that you can't see is this specific game requires pixel shaders
> which the GF4MX can't do. Therefore, will not play. The game had no option
> to fall back and drop the pixel shaders. It won't work. You can try and
> fake the pixel shaders using a 3rd party app like 3d analyze but at the end
> of the day the card would have been slow playing the game in the first place
> if it could play it, if you are going to start faking hardware requirements
> in software it is going to be worse than slow.
>
>
>>I myself would try out half life 2, but I've been hearing/reading too many
>>horror stories about nvidia drivers not being optomized for it, so in that
>>case, I can't really pipe up about it.
>
>
> Give it a go. Great game. Just don't play it on a dx8/9 card cause you
> will be very disappointed with the quality of a dx7 card afterwards.
>
>
>>My advice to rene, install directx8 (you probably already have it, if not,
>>it's on the disc) and play away... If it doesn't meet up to your
>>standards, then look to getting a better card.
>
>
>

You're right, I'm wrong.... I'm just gonna get a 6600 and be done with
it!

 

[DaveL]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

This will be a more common complaint in this NG as more games require DX8
hardware. Calling the MX a "GF4" was a major screw up by Nvidia. We knew
it back then. Now the unwashed masses will find out the hard way.

DaveL


"cowboyz" <me@here.now> wrote in message
news:cqteqv$ld5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> "Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> wrote in message
> news:4QmAd.21025$nV.643422@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> >>
> >> That means, that most games that requires a DX8 based card, will not
run
> >> with a GF4 MX.
> >>
> >> Zulu
> >
> > Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
> > REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of
course)
> > at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all games
that
> > "require directx 9.0a and above".
> >
>
> The key point here is weather they *require* a DX8/9 card or *recommend* a
> DX8/9 card. There are a few games out there that *require* a DX8 card.
> None (that I know of yet) that *require* a DX9 card. A few examples are
> Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell 2. This is on a hardware level and is
> different to requiring DX9 software to run the game. Alot of games
> *require* DX9 software but will fall back to DX7 hardware to play, like
all
> those you mention above.
>
> BTW. I've played HL2 on a XP2200+ 512Meg RAM and GF4MX420SE and it plays.
> Looks damn ugly compared to my 9800pro but it does play.
>
> > Which would lead me to believe that rene should be able to run prince of
> > persia. Ok, the gf4 has PARTIAL dx8 support, but remember that this
> > doesn't really have any bearing on if the game runs or not, simply if it
> > runs better/smoother. As long as dx8 is installed, I see no viable
> > problems running any game.
>
> The problem that you can't see is this specific game requires pixel
shaders
> which the GF4MX can't do. Therefore, will not play. The game had no
option
> to fall back and drop the pixel shaders. It won't work. You can try
and
> fake the pixel shaders using a 3rd party app like 3d analyze but at the
end
> of the day the card would have been slow playing the game in the first
place
> if it could play it, if you are going to start faking hardware
requirements
> in software it is going to be worse than slow.
>
> >
> > I myself would try out half life 2, but I've been hearing/reading too
many
> > horror stories about nvidia drivers not being optomized for it, so in
that
> > case, I can't really pipe up about it.
>
> Give it a go. Great game. Just don't play it on a dx8/9 card cause you
> will be very disappointed with the quality of a dx7 card afterwards.
>
> >
> > My advice to rene, install directx8 (you probably already have it, if
not,
> > it's on the disc) and play away... If it doesn't meet up to your
> > standards, then look to getting a better card.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

DaveL wrote:

> This will be a more common complaint in this NG as more games require
> DX8 hardware. Calling the MX a "GF4" was a major screw up by Nvidia.
> We knew it back then. Now the unwashed masses will find out the hard
> way.

Yeah, I bought one on the recommendation of a local retailer and returned it
the next day for a Ti. It cost nearly double but the performance was
infinitely better.

--
dvus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> wrote in message
>
> You're right, I'm wrong....

Its not about right or wrong. It is a very common mistake thinking the
GF4MX is in the same class as the other GF4s. And really it should be.
NVidia should have called the GF4MX a GF2MX Ultra. It has its market and
are good cards for dual display and the like but just not for some games.

>I'm just gonna get a 6600 and be done with it!

That will fix it. ;-)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:22:38 -0500, Browser Joe <i.dont@think.so>
wrote:

>
>Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
>REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of
>course) at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all
>games that "require directx 9.0a and above".

You've mixed up two entirely different things. Doom 3 only requires a
DirectX 9 *compatible* card. Meaning that there simply has to be dx9
drivers out for the card and nothing more. It doesn't require a
DirectX 9 *compliant* card which would be only those cards with the
dx9 feature set in hardware. World of difference between the two
definitions. Very very few games require you to have a full dx8 or
dx9 compliant video card which is why you can get by using a dx7
compliant card like a GF4MX with dx9 compatible drivers (anything from
the release 40 series or higher basically).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

SevenSamurai wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:22:38 -0500, Browser Joe <i.dont@think.so>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
>>REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of
>>course) at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all
>>games that "require directx 9.0a and above".
>
>
> You've mixed up two entirely different things. Doom 3 only requires a
> DirectX 9 *compatible* card. Meaning that there simply has to be dx9
> drivers out for the card and nothing more. It doesn't require a
> DirectX 9 *compliant* card which would be only those cards with the
> dx9 feature set in hardware. World of difference between the two
> definitions. Very very few games require you to have a full dx8 or
> dx9 compliant video card which is why you can get by using a dx7
> compliant card like a GF4MX with dx9 compatible drivers (anything from
> the release 40 series or higher basically).
>
>

You're about 2 days too late.... I've realized that already... Read the
other posts regarding this topic...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> Very very few games require you to have a full dx8 or
> dx9 compliant video card which is why you can get by using a dx7
> compliant card like a GF4MX with dx9 compatible drivers (anything from
> the release 40 series or higher basically).

Interestingly enough, Prince of Persia does require full DX8.

From http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.htm?pId=4

Video Card: 64 MB GeForce™ 3 or higher, or ATI® Radeon™ 8500 or higher,
Matrox Parhelia™. (GeForce4 MX not supported)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Unfortunately, so does the new 'Chronicles of Riddick" game I got for
Christmas...My brandy-new PC came with a GF4MX and I can't play it.

Have to go buy a new card....Anyone need a 6 day old GF4MX? heh....Actually,
I think it's integrated, so I'm kidding....I'm on a budget and thanks to a
recommendation on this NG, am leaning towards a Leadtek Nvidia 6600GT APG -
Any thoughts/comments/concerns? My PC can handle it, although my power
supply is 300W, which is the minimum Nvidia recommends...

Scott


"Lachoneus" <lachoneus@nonexistent.net> wrote in message
news:cr1ldf$i23$1@news.xmission.com...
> > Very very few games require you to have a full dx8 or
> > dx9 compliant video card which is why you can get by using a dx7
> > compliant card like a GF4MX with dx9 compatible drivers (anything from
> > the release 40 series or higher basically).
>
> Interestingly enough, Prince of Persia does require full DX8.
>
> From http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.htm?pId=4
>
> Video Card: 64 MB GeForce™ 3 or higher, or ATI® Radeon™ 8500 or higher,
> Matrox Parhelia™. (GeForce4 MX not supported)
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:31:10 -0800, "DaveL" <dave1027@comcast.net>
wrote:

What about we poor people who bought a computer with a GF2 graphics
card. The reasoning being to buy a cheap graphics card and then buy a
better one when Doom 3 came out. Either dx9 is emulated by directx or
we don't play the game.

>This will be a more common complaint in this NG as more games require DX8
>hardware. Calling the MX a "GF4" was a major screw up by Nvidia. We knew
>it back then. Now the unwashed masses will find out the hard way.

>"cowboyz" <me@here.now> wrote in message
>news:cqteqv$ld5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

>> "Browser Joe" <i.dont@think.so> wrote in message
>> news:4QmAd.21025$nV.643422@news20.bellglobal.com...

>> >> That means, that most games that requires a DX8 based card, will not
>run
>> >> with a GF4 MX.

>> > Though that sounds ok in theory, it doesn't work in usage... Maybe I got
>> > REALLY lucky, but, I have no problems running doom3 (low detail of
>course)
>> > at 35fps, nhl/nba/fifa/tigerwoods 2005, which in turn, are all games
>that
>> > "require directx 9.0a and above".

>> The key point here is weather they *require* a DX8/9 card or *recommend* a
>> DX8/9 card. There are a few games out there that *require* a DX8 card.
>> None (that I know of yet) that *require* a DX9 card. A few examples are
>> Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell 2. This is on a hardware level and is
>> different to requiring DX9 software to run the game. Alot of games
>> *require* DX9 software but will fall back to DX7 hardware to play, like
>all
>> those you mention above.

[snip]

>> > My advice to rene, install directx8 (you probably already have it, if
>not,
>> > it's on the disc) and play away... If it doesn't meet up to your
>> > standards, then look to getting a better card.


Sig:
Work saves us from three great evils: boredom, vice and need. -Voltaire,
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