The combined net worth of the richest 0.00014% of the population in the US accounts for 2.4% of the total net worth of all Americans. The richest 0.5% of the population in the US accounts for 27% of the total net worth of all Americans.
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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>
America's richest people have seen a 10 per cent increase in their net worth over the past year, the latest list of individual fortunes in Forbes magazine reveals.
The latest Forbes 400 list is further evidence that the affluent are thriving under President Bush even as unemployment continues to rise and the income of average workers remains stagnant.
gee under the bush tax cut i am lucky if my "revenue" increases at all, something just doesn't seem right.
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
not all all they deserve all the money they have earned. what is interesting that in a time of economic hardship for many people, they have not suffered in fact they have prospered, and in large part thanks to the bush tax cut for the uber rich.
in a time when we our in a massive budget deficit (the largest ever) do we really need to increase the wealth of the wealthiest people in america? i have an idea, take the tax break for the uber rich and use it to pay for this fiasco in iraq. it won't cover all the cost's, but we could get a nice chunk of change from them.
someday money will be a forgotten evil
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
I don't know the numbers so these might be wrong. I do know that I got nothing from the bush tax cut since I didn't pay any taxes. Seemed to make a whole lot of sense to me.
So if you make:
50K you get about $387 back
100K you get about $1500 back
500K you get about $12000 back
1M you get about $30000 back
3B you get about $108M back
Seems fair. It would have been more fair if there was a flat percentage though instead of the rich getting a few more percent off their taxes than the middle class. The poor on the other hand don't pay taxes so they shouldn't get anything back.
HOWEVER, this might not have been the best approach. I'm not an economics expert so I don't know.
It really depends on where you believe that money is the most usefull. Do you think it's usefull to put money into food, clothes, and bills? Or do you think investing it into businesses and companies is better? I have no idea. Maybe a compromise?
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
If you earn $1 million, you are earning 20 times what someone who earns $50,000, yet you get 78 times more back on the refund. That makes sense to you?
Yes, it is better to put money into food, clothes, and bills, because that is what makes more jobs. That is what Bush is saying his tax cuts are for, giving more buying power to the middle class so they can buy more stuff, create jobs, and make economy prosper. But, in reality this tax cut gives a substantially higher portion to the rich who will just put it in a bank and get richer. It doesn't compute.
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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>
money should be spent developing people so we can have a future. the way the system works is the rich stay rich, the poor stay poor and occasionally a few new people get added to the rich club.
that is the real evil in this country. people who are poor stay poor because the system doesn't encourage nor want poor people to improve their position in life.
why is it that so little emphasis is actually placed on education by people who matter. they only want people educated enough to work the shite jobs with out realizing how exploited they are.
if everyone were educated walmart would go out of business because no educated person would put up with that bullshit. likewise for mcdonalds so on and so forth.
back to the original thing. the people who make more money have should help out those less fortunate. if you really have 20 billion dollars to your name, you could donate more money to charity each year than you and i will see in our lifetime and do a world of good to those who actually need it.
why is it that we have corporate wellfare? shouldn't we have social wellfare? corporations have a responsibility to not only the employees but the good of the community of which they are based. they get these huge tax breaks and for what, so ceo bob smith can make a gagillion dollars each year and shameless pay his minions absurd amounts of money meanwhile stiffing the people who actually work to make that happen.
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
Not to drift too far off topic, but can I ask a stupid question?
How hard is it for you and the people you know, with educations or without educations, to get a $50K job?
It's not that hard. I work with 20 year olds who are making that and they don't have a college education.
Granted, it's sales and most got the job by referal. Nonetheless, it's not that hard. It gets a lot harder when you try to hit 6+ digits.
The Government isn't holding them back. The system isn't holding them back. I just don't believe that.
BUT, I do agree that our system isn't perfect. Capitalism is a dirty game. I have no doubts, and enough experience, to know that the rich get richer by screwing the little guy. I'm convinced that it's the best we have though. I've been thinking alot about this lately and I'm sorry to say that I don't have the answers. Just giving the poor money isn't one of them though. That's called socialism and people that live like that are LAZY. That's a big pet peeve of mine.
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
I definitly think a flat percentage back would have been much more fair. I'm not an economic expert though. So what is fair to the little guy might not be that great for the economy.
I look at the economy and I see it getting better now. The DJIA is at a 18 month high and is almost back to 10,000. The dollar is doing a bit better.
Can any of us really say for sure what's good for the economy? Any one in this forum a economist. I know numbers but I can't tell you what's gonna be the best for this country's economy.
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
a bit about myself. i started working for the telephone company when i was 21, am now 27. i will make 50+ this year and i couldn't tell you where most of it is because it goes so quickly. anyways i don't have a college education, not complete anyways and i make a very decent living.
this is where some things start to come into focus. the company i work for constantly threatens to take my job away, takes away extras (coffee & hot chocolate) because of the economy, slashes our education benefits, grossly violates the union contract on a daily basis so on and so forth.
now i am one of the people who makes this company sucessful, and that is how i am rewarded. meanwhile on the other hand we have mr edward whitacre jr who despite having driven our stock price to the lowest it has been in years received in 2001 compensation totaling 72 million dollars. whats wrong with that picture
i believe in socialism, but i believe that you should have to put forth your fair share or you go. everybody works everybody benefits. just like i think everybody should serve a minimum of 2 years in the military, right out of high school. make everyone serve their county, no exceptions, if you are disabled you can do office work.
i never said the government holds people back it is the system in which people are ensared that does. the rich don't want the not rich to become rich. the best way to exploit someone or a group of people is to ensure they remain undeducated about the system.
we could fix many of the problems in this country rather easily. many of these people who are poor would work for secure living environment and three meals a day. there is so much we should/could/would/ but aren't doing.
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
It's all about WHO you know, not what you know. I'm finding that out. It bothers me in so many ways.
Your 50K will get eaten by a lot of taxes. No doubt.
Do you have any idea how much of that 50K you would keep in a socialist country though? Once you figure that out you'll back off the socialist ideas a bit.
Sweden was an eye opener for me. I couldn't believe the taxes. I think we need to find a better way than just handing money to everyone, taxing everyone, and losing the motivation and enthusiasm for hard work that built the USA.
Your 50K might not do much, but it does a lot more than anywhere else.
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
i propose a system where all basic needs are met, food, shelter, clothing, education.
you work and those are provided for you. we would have efficient mass transit so not individual vehicles would be needed. of course everyone would have a bicycle.
also everybody gets a computer, mp3 player tv so on and so forth, but you have to work in order to receive.
i am talking about getting rid of money. it is truly one of the great evils and the ultimate trap.
you have to look at quality of life, what is more important to you, money or quality of life. i for one would prefer quality over quantity
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
this is not communism, socialism yes, comunism no.
i envision a society based off equlity.
think with all the people in the usa alone. no longer if everyone worked would you have to work 40 hour work weeks. who knows maybe you have rotating job functions in fact you do, something different each week or month or what not.
you receive and education, training, allow families to grow and develop.
it all comes down to equality and balance. getting rid of money might not solve all problems but it would solve quite a few. no need to murder people to get stuff you don't have because you already have it.
when are we going to start living for humanity instead of living for the almighty dollar?
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
That's not going to work ever. At least not on this planet. I suppose on a space ship where there were different ranks, better food, and bigger rooms...then that might work for a reward system.
That's Star Trek isn't it?
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
but most of all people have to leg go of in order to understand. i don't care for star trek much so i hope not. i simply want a society where no one person is more important than another. united we stand divided we fall. either humanity will learn to unite or we will destroy ourselves, or aliens will anyways. i of firm belief that if there is intelligent life out there they have probably put a do not enter sign at the edge of our galaxy warning them not to come near us
<font color=purple><b><i>The Principle's of the Lust are easy to understand. Do what feel, feel until the end</b></i></font color=purple>
It will take a thousand years. First we need to get rid of racism and inequality. It's gonna take at least a thousand years before we've all inbred enough. And that's just the USA.
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
I tell ya what. You go for this and make it happen. And when you do, drop me a line and give me directions, and I'll come check out your society. We'll sit on your porch sippin' bourbon and watching Satan iceskate.
The problem is that you are right, the rich get rich by screwing everyone else. They thrive because they are disgustingly greedy, and in our capitalist society where ther stock market is king, all that matters to these people is profit. PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT. Hey, is there any more profit?
That's all they care about. They don't care about providing a good service at a good price that benefits not only thie pocket books, but society as a whole. They care about increasing profits and adding more zeros to their bank balance, that's all.
There's something with rich people... Why do they feel they need to be so rich? What can you really do with $10 billion that you can't do with $5 billion? It has to be something... I think it's that seeing more zeros on their bank statement just gives them the biggest fvcking boners they could ever get. That has to be it. Greed controls them and everything they do. It sucks.
Don't get me wrong, I have a little greed in me to. I want to make money and buy cool stuff. But what differs me from these corporate sickos is that I won't use, abuse, trick, con, and exploit other people in order to get it. The worst is that for most of them, paying their fair share of taxes on their fortune doesn't sit well with them either, so they lie and cheat when it comes to that too.
I know not all richers are that way, but there is something wrong with so many of those people that are like that.
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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>
If you earn $1 million, you are earning 20 times what someone who earns $50,000, yet you get 78 times more back on the refund. That makes sense to you?
It makes sense to me! Look, say the 50 grand guy paid $2k in tax, but the 1m guy paid $156k. Now say you both got ALL your taxes back, aka 100%. The rich guy got 78x as much back, even though he only made 20x as much money.
This is possible because rich people who don't find ways to cheat on taxes pay a much larger percentage of their income than middle class. Ever heard of the 50% tax bracket? Refers to people who make over $100k a year paying around 30% in federal and 20% in state income tax.
Let's round that 78 to 80 (which is actually in YOUR favor, not mine). 80 is 20x4. So say the $50k guy has a full family of 5 and pays fairly low taxes because of his exemptions, 401k contribuitons, etc. Say he pays 8% federal because his income after deductions is small. Now say the rich guy pays 32% flat rate (the exemptions don't help him much because he's RICH)! Now, when I went to school, 8x4=32!
<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
If you earn $1 million, you are earning 20 times what someone who earns $50,000, yet you get 78 times more back on the refund. That makes sense to you?
It makes sense to me! Look, say the 50 grand guy paid $2k in tax, but the 1m guy paid $156k. Now say you both got ALL your taxes back, aka 100%. The rich guy got 78x as much back, even though he only made 20x as much money.
This is possible because rich people who don't find ways to cheat on taxes pay a much larger percentage of their income than middle class. Ever heard of the 50% tax bracket? Refers to people who make over $100k a year paying around 30% in federal and 20% in state income tax.
Let's round that 78 to 80 (which is actually in YOUR favor, not mine). 80 is 20x4. So say the $50k guy has a full family of 5 and pays fairly low taxes because of his exemptions, 401k contribuitons, etc. Say he pays 8% federal because his income after deductions is small. Now say the rich guy pays 32% flat rate (the exemptions don't help him much because he's RICH)! Now, when I went to school, 8x4=32!
You see a lot of deception comming from the left whenever a tax break is made. You have to understand that if someone says "everyone will be getting a 3% tax break compared to what they paid last year", it's going to give back larger number to people who are taxed at a higher rate to begin with, and the difference in the original rate is what scews the numbers!
<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
Umm, it's more like the $50k guy (assuming no deductions except for the $7,000 everyone gets) paid about $10,750 (25% bracket) and the $1m guy paid $350,000 (35% bracket) in federal income tax).
So, previously whereas the $1m guy is making 20 times more than the $50k guy, he pays 32 times as much in taxes, yet still gets 78 times as much back under Bush's tax cuts. That doesn't make sense.
The problem is that Bush is saying this is a tax cut for the middle class to stimulate the economy, whereas the majority of this tax money goes to the wealthiest people in the country who don't need it, who will just put it in a bank or trust fund. I am not against tax cuts when these tax cuts can be afforded. The problem with these tax cuts is that they do not realisticly reflect the purpose Bush has led the American people to believe they were passed for.
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<font color=blue> "Trying is the first step towards failure." </font color=blue>
The more money you have, the more you want or feel you need. It's never enough. Ask anyone, whether they make $20K or $250K. Where do you draw the line between the average joe rich guy and the greedy bastard rich guy?
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
That's possible. But the people who cry the most about tax breaks say things like "The richest people are getting MILLIONS in tax break while the poorest people get NOTHING"! Wow, I'm among the poorest people, I make less than Welfare pays. I pay no taxes! So why would I expect to get a tax break?
In fact, with the Home Heating credit and the Earned Income credit, I pay no taxes and still get money "back"! Last year I didn't qualify for the Earned Income credit because I didn't make enough money...hmm.
<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
For the last couple of years I've gotten back <b>MORE</b> than I paid in taxes due to being a college student and getting some kind of college tax credit.
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
I was a college student and didn't qualify for those tax incentives because there are so many rules it was almost written like "everyone but Crashman gets this".
<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
Tricks of the trade. I've been getting my taxes, since they're not very complicated, done on campus. The accounting students do it and then the professors check it. They are awesome. First of all I get my taxes done free and they try to hook my up in every way possible.
I'm not even in college now but I'm gonna keep going to them until I have a house and need a real accountant for deductions and mortgatge interest stuff.
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<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">12 bit... The way games are meant to be played!</A>
Yes, I had a very slick CPA get me back over $500 more than I paid one year when I paid taxes.
Problem is, you have to have a certain income to get the stupid college tax credit.
<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
So there you go, you just nailed down one of the inequalities in the system. The very poor are discouraged from attaining higher education. They don't want you to better yourself. Why is that?
There was a case here in Ontario, Canada where a single mother on welfare got student loans and went to University. Just before she graduated the welfare board said "oh your student loans count as income, therefore we're re-accessing your benifits and you now owe us $32,000. Pay up now or go to jail and have your 6 year old daughter sent into foster care."
How the hell can a loan count as income? How can the welfare board penalize her for trying to get an education so she can pull herself off welfare? You think they'd want people to pull themselves off welfare. Now she has to come up with $32,000 within a year and also try to pay off her student loans.
What their saying is that people like Crash and people like her are only good for getting jobs at McDonalds. Don't ever try to better youself because they'll just push you right back down.
That 0.5% of Americans who account for 27% of the wealth, do you really think that they pay 27% of the governemnt taxes as well? No, the majority of the tax money comes from the middle class. Sure a billionare may bitch amd moan because he has to pay 5 million in taxes, but for every billionare there are 5 million middle class who are paying $5,000 in taxes. You do the math.
So in conclusion the rich/governments want the poor to stay poor as a cheep source of labor, the middle class to pay all the taxes, and the rich to keep getting richer.
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