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are nvidia serious about no more agp

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 3:12:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.


under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card

i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
quickly

More about : nvidia agp

Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 3:12:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

epaton wrote:

> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.

It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram PCI-Express
down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.

> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly

"So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with AGP.
There may be a few out there but they're rare.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
July 21, 2005 3:12:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> epaton wrote:
>
> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> > so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> > expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram PCI-Express
> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>
> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
> >
> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> > free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> > quickly
>
> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with AGP.
> There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>
>

Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
feeder boxes for their kids.

Bill
Related resources
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 3:12:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Bill wrote:

> In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
> jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> epaton wrote:
>>
>> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
>> > just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning
>> > that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a
>> > graphics card.
>>
>> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
>> PCI-Express
>> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>>
>> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
>> > card
>> >
>> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
>> > in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should
>> > shift quickly
>>
>> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with
>> AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>>
>>
>
> Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> feeder boxes for their kids.

Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you unaware
that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP slot?

> Bill

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
July 21, 2005 3:12:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> >> epaton wrote:
> >>
> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
> >> > just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning
> >> > that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a
> >> > graphics card.
> >>
> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
> >> PCI-Express
> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
> >>
> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> >> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
> >> > card
> >> >
> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
> >> > in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should
> >> > shift quickly
> >>
> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine with
> >> AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> > feeder boxes for their kids.
>
> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you unaware
> that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP slot?
>
> > Bill
>
>

Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
upgrade those either.

So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
graphics slots in them?

Bill
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 3:16:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Everybody" you know? 80% of OEM boxes are sold to businesses. It doesn't
matter if they use integrated graphics. If the mobo has an PCIe slot and no
AGP slot, then there's no possibility of upgrading to an AGP video card for
those machines.

Retail sales are quite insignificant compared to OEM sales. Remember not so
long ago when X800XT cards were in tight supply? ATi openly acknowledged
most of the cards were being funneled to the likes of Dell (for its high-end
XPS machines) and Alienware.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

"Bill" <spamtrap@tinlc.lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d489ad2a7eeca0d989786@news.supernews.com...
> Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> feeder boxes for their kids.
>
> Bill
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 3:22:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

It's not as bad as you think. Replacing the mobo costs $150. The CPU and RAM
carry over. Meanwhile you are dumping $500 on a 7800. It's all a matter of
perspective, when the video card accounts for half the cost of the
machine...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
>
> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 5:37:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Bill wrote:

> In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
> jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
>> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> >> epaton wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure
>> >> > its just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little
>> >> > concerning that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just
>> >> > for a graphics card.
>> >>
>> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
>> >> PCI-Express
>> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>> >>
>> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>> >> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a
>> >> > 7800 card
>> >> >
>> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices
>> >> > are in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800
>> >> > should shift quickly
>> >>
>> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine
>> >> with AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
>> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
>> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
>> > feeder boxes for their kids.
>>
>> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
>> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you
>> unaware that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP
>> slot?
>>
>> > Bill
>>
>>
>
> Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
> with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
> upgrade those either.

You are not grokking the concept. It is not that one cannot upgrade PCI
Express machines, it is that even the most sophisticated ones cannot take
an AGP board. You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.

> So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
> graphics slots in them?

There is no such thing as a "PCI Express graphics slot" any more than there
is a "PCI graphics slot". PCI Express is intended to be the successor to
PCI as well as AGP. As for "all the new PCs", there are "new PCs" that
don't have _any_ slots. So what?

I don't really understand what point you think you're making. If it is your
contention that the existence of machines with video built into the chipset
means that no PCI Express video boards are being sold, then consider that
that same argument applies to AGP. So by your reasoning no video boards of
any kind are being sold and I guess that ATI and nvidia both need to
declare bankruptcy.

If nvidia thought that there was any kind of major market for an AGP 7800,
do you think that they are too stupid to recognize the fact? They have
access to accurate sales figures for AGP vs PCI Express GPUs--they sell
both and one may assume that they know how many of each they have sold.

By the way, if there were "few PCI Express buyers" then the prices would not
be "in free fall". In electronics "free fall" comes from the economies of
scale that occur with high sales volume. By the reasoning that "free fall"
indicates lack of popularity one could argue that nobody uses 100TX or wifi
or gigabit or 250 gig disks or LCD monitors or myriad other components. It
costs almost the same to make a million chips as it does to make one
chip--most of the cost is in the setup. So the more chips you make the
lower the cost per chip will be.

> Bill

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 5:37:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote

> You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
> but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
> really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.

Take a look at this little baby:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
July 21, 2005 4:42:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <dbndlv01c8p@news3.newsguy.com>,
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> >> Bill wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
> >> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
> >> >> epaton wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure
> >> >> > its just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little
> >> >> > concerning that the expect people to upgrade their whole system just
> >> >> > for a graphics card.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
> >> >> PCI-Express
> >> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
> >> >>
> >> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> >> >> > pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a
> >> >> > 7800 card
> >> >> >
> >> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices
> >> >> > are in free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800
> >> >> > should shift quickly
> >> >>
> >> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine
> >> >> with AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold
> >> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
> >> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
> >> > feeder boxes for their kids.
> >>
> >> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express then
> >> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you
> >> unaware that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP
> >> slot?
> >>
> >> > Bill
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
> > with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
> > upgrade those either.
>
> You are not grokking the concept.

I grok the concept. You haven't answered my question. I repeat. Do you
have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold actually
use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board graphics?

> It is not that one cannot upgrade PCI
> Express machines, it is that even the most sophisticated ones cannot take
> an AGP board. You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
> but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
> really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.
>
> > So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
> > graphics slots in them?
>
> There is no such thing as a "PCI Express graphics slot" any more than there
> is a "PCI graphics slot".

So you can stick a pci-express graphics card into any pci-express slot
and get full performance out of it. Cool.

> PCI Express is intended to be the successor to
> PCI as well as AGP. As for "all the new PCs", there are "new PCs" that
> don't have _any_ slots. So what?

Then they would have as little an upgrade path for graphics as the PCs
sold with no AGP slots or pci-express slots able to take pci express
graphics cards.

>
> I don't really understand what point you think you're making.

Actually I'm not trying to make any point. I was just seeking a datum
out of curiousity. See above.

> If it is your
> contention that the existence of machines with video built into the chipset
> means that no PCI Express video boards are being sold, then consider that
> that same argument applies to AGP.

I'm contending nothing, having insufficient data to do so.

> So by your reasoning no video boards of
> any kind are being sold and I guess that ATI and nvidia both need to
> declare bankruptcy.

I have said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

>
> If nvidia thought that there was any kind of major market for an AGP 7800,
> do you think that they are too stupid to recognize the fact?

I think Nvidia is smart enough to make an AGP 7800 if they realize the
market is there. I don't think they're stupid enough to pass up a
profit if the profit is sizable enough. How may AGP 7800 do you think
would have to be sold to make the issue of an AGP 7800 profitable?

> They have
> access to accurate sales figures for AGP vs PCI Express GPUs--they sell
> both and one may assume that they know how many of each they have sold.

They just may be waiting a while before they put out an AGP 7800, just
like they waited to put out the AGP GeForce 6600.

Below, I think you're replying to "eapton" not me. Check the
attributions.

>
> By the way, if there were "few PCI Express buyers" then the prices would not
> be "in free fall". In electronics "free fall" comes from the economies of
> scale that occur with high sales volume. By the reasoning that "free fall"
> indicates lack of popularity one could argue that nobody uses 100TX or wifi
> or gigabit or 250 gig disks or LCD monitors or myriad other components. It
> costs almost the same to make a million chips as it does to make one
> chip--most of the cost is in the setup. So the more chips you make the
> lower the cost per chip will be.
>
> > Bill
>
>

Bill
July 21, 2005 5:00:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

it is not nvidia it is the companies that make the boards.
if there is no market for agp it will be gone.

"epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
>
> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 6:51:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <pan.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com>, epaton says...
> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its just
> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>
>
> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800 card
>
> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are in
> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
> quickly
>
Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
supports the new CPUS.



--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2005 6:51:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote

>>
> Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
> supports the new CPUS.

Sorry, um, tough guy. BIOS updates are flying fast and furiously. I'd be
surprised if there are many nforce 3's that won't run x2's.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
spam@uce.gov
Thanks, robots.
July 21, 2005 8:14:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <ElTDe.75424$Qo.38986@fed1read01>, nobody@nobody.there
says...
>
> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>
> > Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
> > supports the new CPUS.
>
> Sorry, um, tough guy. BIOS updates are flying fast and furiously. I'd be
> surprised if there are many nforce 3's that won't run x2's.
>
>

Funny, I posting from a MB that supports dual core processors and it
has an AGP card. An AV8 3rd Eye.

Bill
July 21, 2005 9:32:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Conor wrote:
> Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
> supports the new CPUS.
>

But that is the problem.There aren't any new AGP boards for intel CPUs(
there are many sck939 nForce3 and now the ULI hybrids) ,but there is
still a big market of AGP based customers that will want to upgrade.
I myself have a P4 2.8@3.2 , 1GB DDR400 and a 9700Pro. I don't need to
upgrade yet but would like to in a few months and I have my eye on a
7800 vanilla that is yet to be anounced.The card is rumored to be
somewhere beetwen a 6800GT and Ultra but with some new improvements in
video-processing and other things that would make it faster than the
6800 series.
I think AGP based 7800 cards are bound to show but we'll have to wait
longer than for their PCI-E counterparts. But 7800GTX definitely won't
be released in AGP.

--
Glitches are BAD!!!
Beware...

ICQ:275699535
July 21, 2005 10:07:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

there is a market for agp. as a matter of fact you can still find video
cards that work on the old pci slot. No card manufacturer is that stupid to
limit its sales.the problem is that maybe the agp will not have enough
bandwith to handle the new top of the line video cards that sell for $500.
we will probably see new video card that sell for under $300 with agp.



"BigJim" <woody10277@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Z56dnfAWfssrSULfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> it is not nvidia it is the companies that make the boards.
> if there is no market for agp it will be gone.
>
> "epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
> news:p an.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
>> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
>> just
>> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that the
>> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>>
>>
>> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
>> card
>>
>> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
>> in
>> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
>> quickly
>
>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 12:47:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

The mobo is in a unique niche, though. It's useful only to people currently
running AthlonXP processors wishing to upgrade to Athlon64, while keeping
their current RAM and AGP video card.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:GjHDe.67060$Qo.65060@fed1read01...
> Take a look at this little baby:
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471
July 22, 2005 2:14:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

I agree to a point but have you seen any new pci old type cards be produced.
"vinny" <vinny0505@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:QvRDe.158$Ho3.1@trndny01...
> there is a market for agp. as a matter of fact you can still find video
> cards that work on the old pci slot. No card manufacturer is that stupid
> to limit its sales.the problem is that maybe the agp will not have enough
> bandwith to handle the new top of the line video cards that sell for $500.
> we will probably see new video card that sell for under $300 with agp.
>
>
>
> "BigJim" <woody10277@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Z56dnfAWfssrSULfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>> it is not nvidia it is the companies that make the boards.
>> if there is no market for agp it will be gone.
>>
>> "epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
>> news:p an.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
>>> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
>>> just
>>> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that
>>> the
>>> expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics card.
>>>
>>>
>>> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>>> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
>>> card
>>>
>>> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
>>> in
>>> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
>>> quickly
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 2:37:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

> Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
> supports the new CPUS.
>
>

yeah im the dumbass because i woulnt be buying a new pc every time i fancy
running a graphics heavy game faster on my 8 month old pc, after all we
know modern games are cpu limited dont we and fitting a fast graphics card
to an even older system would make no difference too its gameing
performance would it.


pci-express offers little advantage over agp at the moment apart from sli,
anantech just did a review with a board which had agp and pci-express and
tested it pretty much shows agp aint bandwidth limited

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471&p=8


as to it being up to manufactures whether they produce agp versions cast
their mind back to the release of the 6600's where all the manufactures
released agp versions about the same time, a cynic might thing nvidia who
produce the pciexpress/agp bridge could be holding onto them or enforcing
some sort of contact clause.

it getting to be a bit off a nonissue since theres deals with 7800gtx
going for £280 its soon going to be so cheap upgrade costs will become a
nonissue
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 7:00:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <ElTDe.75424$Qo.38986@fed1read01>, Ed Light says...
>
> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>
> > Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
> > supports the new CPUS.
>
> Sorry, um, tough guy. BIOS updates are flying fast and furiously. I'd be
> surprised if there are many nforce 3's that won't run x2's.
>
Now try buying one.


--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 7:00:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4b0c6c554d2a6f98a47d@news.individual.net...
> In article <ElTDe.75424$Qo.38986@fed1read01>, Ed Light says...
>>
>> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> >>
>> > Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
>> > supports the new CPUS.
>>
>> Sorry, um, tough guy. BIOS updates are flying fast and furiously. I'd be
>> surprised if there are many nforce 3's that won't run x2's.
>>
> Now try buying one.

newegg has 22 nforce 3 boards.


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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 7:01:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <pan.2005.07.20.23.45.11.764179@null.com>, epaton says...


> it getting to be a bit off a nonissue since theres deals with 7800gtx
> going for £280 its soon going to be so cheap upgrade costs will become a
> nonissue
>
Precisely. And with a PCI-e motherboard available for £50 and your CPU,
Ram and HDD carrying over, what is the problem? Just go but a new
motherboard.

--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 7:02:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4b0cb36260599898a47e@news.individual.net...
> In article <pan.2005.07.20.23.45.11.764179@null.com>, epaton says...
>
>
>> it getting to be a bit off a nonissue since theres deals with 7800gtx
>> going for £280 its soon going to be so cheap upgrade costs will become a
>> nonissue
>>
> Precisely. And with a PCI-e motherboard available for £50 and your CPU,
> Ram and HDD carrying over, what is the problem? Just go but a new
> motherboard.

1. Costs money. Not all have it.
2. Has few pci slots. Some have many pci cards to insert.
3. What can you put in the little slots? They might as well not be there.
4. PCI-e boards are still teething. You can be the guinea pig, or skip them
this year.

--
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 7:46:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <Jr7Ee.90680$Qo.16649@fed1read01>, Ed Light says...
>
> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4b0cb36260599898a47e@news.individual.net...
> > In article <pan.2005.07.20.23.45.11.764179@null.com>, epaton says...
> >
> >
> >> it getting to be a bit off a nonissue since theres deals with 7800gtx
> >> going for £280 its soon going to be so cheap upgrade costs will become a
> >> nonissue
> >>
> > Precisely. And with a PCI-e motherboard available for £50 and your CPU,
> > Ram and HDD carrying over, what is the problem? Just go but a new
> > motherboard.
>
> 1. Costs money. Not all have it.
> 2. Has few pci slots. Some have many pci cards to insert.
> 3. What can you put in the little slots? They might as well not be there.
> 4. PCI-e boards are still teething. You can be the guinea pig, or skip them
> this year.
>
1) If you can't afford £50, you have better things to spend your money
on so you couldn't afford a PC in the first place.

2)?? Many have 5.

--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 22, 2005 7:46:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote

> 1) If you can't afford £50, you have better things to spend your money
> on so you couldn't afford a PC in the first place.

I shouldn't answer a bigot, I guess.

If you really wanted a pc and were disabled or retired you could:

Cut you own hair.
Not do laundry (coin operated).
Not bathe so your clothes won't wear out in the laundry and need replacing.
Not subscribe to a newspaper.

That ought to do it.

Maybe you wouldn't want a pc too badly.


--
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2005 10:16:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

I've read about this, but this is a reference motherboard, not even a
prototype. The AGP bridge also doesn't even have to be implemented. This
isn't a motherboard that you can buy now and I don't think you'll ever be
able to buy a PCIe/AGP motherboard.

--
there is no .sig
"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:GjHDe.67060$Qo.65060@fed1read01...
>
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote
>
>> You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
>> but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
>> really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.
>
> Take a look at this little baby:
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471
>
>
> --
> Ed Light
>
> Smiley :-/
> MS Smiley :-\
>
> Send spam to the FTC at
> uce@ftc.gov
> Thanks, robots.
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2005 10:16:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Doug" <pigdos@nospam.com> wrote

>I don't think you'll ever be able to buy a PCIe/AGP motherboard.

Watch Asrock. They love combinations, like 754/939.


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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2005 10:23:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

It's not true that everyone's CPU will carry over, there are people out
there, like me, who still have Athlon XP (socket A) systems. Will all older
Pentium IV's work in the newer motherboards?

--
there is no .sig
"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:Jr7Ee.90680$Qo.16649@fed1read01...
>
> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4b0cb36260599898a47e@news.individual.net...
>> In article <pan.2005.07.20.23.45.11.764179@null.com>, epaton says...
>>
>>
>>> it getting to be a bit off a nonissue since theres deals with 7800gtx
>>> going for £280 its soon going to be so cheap upgrade costs will become a
>>> nonissue
>>>
>> Precisely. And with a PCI-e motherboard available for £50 and your CPU,
>> Ram and HDD carrying over, what is the problem? Just go but a new
>> motherboard.
>
> 1. Costs money. Not all have it.
> 2. Has few pci slots. Some have many pci cards to insert.
> 3. What can you put in the little slots? They might as well not be there.
> 4. PCI-e boards are still teething. You can be the guinea pig, or skip
> them this year.
>
> --
> Ed Light
>
> Smiley :-/
> MS Smiley :-\
>
> Send spam to the FTC at
> spam@uce.gov
> Thanks, robots.
>
>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 5:24:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:fPBEe.108370$Qo.7843@fed1read01...
>
> "Doug" <pigdos@nospam.com> wrote
>
>>I don't think you'll ever be able to buy a PCIe/AGP motherboard.
>
> Watch Asrock. They love combinations, like 754/939.
>
>

Yep, but nobody wishing to build a quality rig would choose Asrock for a
motherboard. I think most gamers would prefer stability and value over
flakiness and dodgy and gimmicky features.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 5:24:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

In article <42e2ef7c$1@news.orcon.net.nz>, Alameda says...

>
> Yep, but nobody wishing to build a quality rig would choose Asrock for a
> motherboard. I think most gamers would prefer stability and value over
> flakiness and dodgy and gimmicky features.
>
Asrock is Asus.


--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 5:24:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote
> Yep, but nobody wishing to build a quality rig would choose Asrock for a
> motherboard. I think most gamers would prefer stability and value over
> flakiness and dodgy and gimmicky features.

Asrocks are ok. They're an Asus offshoot.

--
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 5:34:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:Jr7Ee.90680$Qo.16649@fed1read01...
>
> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4b0cb36260599898a47e@news.individual.net...
>> In article <pan.2005.07.20.23.45.11.764179@null.com>, epaton says...

> 3. What can you put in the little slots? They might as well not be there.

May I answer this little query? I for one, can't wait for the Ageia PPU to
come out this year and these are designed to fit into the PCI-E x1 slot to
complement your video card and take the load off your GPU to devote
everything to processing physics alone. The implications of this is pretty
cool - it will enable detail to be "blown up" into minute pieces as opposed
to the tiny chunks we currently see, massive explosions will be able to be
carried out onscreen without any slowdown in framerate, it's going to
totally revolutionise the immersion aspects of a game - even particle
effects like rain and wind or flesh movements on a human character will be
processed by the Ageia PPU.

This "little slot" that in your eyes may as well not be there, could hold
the key to the next advancement in graphics realism and immersion - and
probably already gives the PC a built-in advantage over the upcoming Xbox360
and PS3. Do some Googling and read up on it. Download some movies
demonstrating it. Read up on their presentation at E3 2005. There's no
excuse for being ignorant.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 5:34:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote

> and PS3. Do some Googling and read up on it. Download some movies
> demonstrating it. Read up on their presentation at E3 2005. There's no
> excuse for being ignorant.

Why should I do anything for a snob?


--
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 5:41:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Cutting through all the hype, in order for the Ageia PPU to work:

1. The PPU will have to go into production first,
2. with good driver support,
3. with OpenGL or DirectX extensions to support off-loading the physics,
4. and show a distinct performance benefit over on-video-card processing

Any incompetency in the above steps, and the thing becomes a doorstop. The
technology is even more vulnerable to commercial failure if its only
application is gaming. It'll be a long time before the concept can be made
to work practically, perhaps longer than the useful lifespan of current
motherboards...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:42e2f1bc$1@news.orcon.net.nz...
> May I answer this little query? I for one, can't wait for the Ageia PPU to
> come out this year and these are designed to fit into the PCI-E x1 slot to
> complement your video card and take the load off your GPU to devote
> everything to processing physics alone. The implications of this is pretty
> cool - it will enable detail to be "blown up" into minute pieces as
> opposed to the tiny chunks we currently see, massive explosions will be
> able to be carried out onscreen without any slowdown in framerate, it's
> going to totally revolutionise the immersion aspects of a game - even
> particle effects like rain and wind or flesh movements on a human
> character will be processed by the Ageia PPU.
>
> This "little slot" that in your eyes may as well not be there, could hold
> the key to the next advancement in graphics realism and immersion - and
> probably already gives the PC a built-in advantage over the upcoming
> Xbox360 and PS3. Do some Googling and read up on it. Download some movies
> demonstrating it. Read up on their presentation at E3 2005. There's no
> excuse for being ignorant.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 8:23:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4d0a5f3bb1ba3e98a4b5@news.individual.net...
> In article <42e2ef7c$1@news.orcon.net.nz>, Alameda says...
>>
> Asrock is Asus.
>

**breaks egg, throws on one's face**

I've always had the feeling it's like the 'cheapened wing' of Asus - - - -
but upon further investigation, I see they actually have a reasonably good
reputation. I take back what I said. Funny what happens if you lump a whole
lot of brands together, like the likes of ECS, Axper, the so-called
'low-end'. It's all about perception, and sometimes those perceptions are
misguided . :/ 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 8:23:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote

>> Asrock is Asus.

> **breaks egg, throws on one's face**
>
> I've always had the feeling it's like the 'cheapened wing' of Asus - - - -
> but upon further investigation, I see they actually have a reasonably good
> reputation.

They have a little via-based km266 pro (socket A) for $40 (at newegg) that's
loaded! 333 fsb, 4 x usb 2.0, free modem, integrated video of course, agp
slot, you can change the multiplier with jumpers (you supply jumpers) --
it's neato. A friend got it and it flies. No problems at all running a
mobile xp. They put one cap too near the socket though. Makes it challenging
to choose a heatsink. I see Arctic Cooling has a new one out that goes
straight up, then flares out to clear caps. I'm glad socket A is ending.

--
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 8:53:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:bKEEe.110466$Qo.64137@fed1read01...
>
> "Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote
>
>> and PS3. Do some Googling and read up on it. Download some movies
>> demonstrating it. Read up on their presentation at E3 2005. There's no
>> excuse for being ignorant.
>
> Why should I do anything for a snob?
>

I'm suggesting do it for yourself, for your own enlightenment. I don't see
how knowledge of the Ageia PPU is 'snobbish' - you asked for a practical use
for the x1 slots and I gave a concrete answer. I guess there are other
advancements around the corner too, don't knock it.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2005 8:53:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:42e32054@news.orcon.net.nz...
>
> "Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
> news:bKEEe.110466$Qo.64137@fed1read01...
>>
>> "Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote
>>
>>> and PS3. Do some Googling and read up on it. Download some movies
>>> demonstrating it. Read up on their presentation at E3 2005. There's no
>>> excuse for being ignorant.
>>
>> Why should I do anything for a snob?
>>
>
> I'm suggesting do it for yourself, for your own enlightenment. I don't see
> how knowledge of the Ageia PPU is 'snobbish' - you asked for a practical
> use for the x1 slots and I gave a concrete answer. I guess there are other
> advancements around the corner too, don't knock it.

Well, you're telling me, "there's no excuse for being ignorant." That's kind
of offensive, don't you see?

It's nice that you're informing me, but then to chide me for not knowing is
pretty crude.
--
Ed Light

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>
>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 25, 2005 12:13:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:tnGEe.110515$Qo.28984@fed1read01...
>
> "Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:42e32054@news.orcon.net.nz...
>>
>> "Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
>> news:bKEEe.110466$Qo.64137@fed1read01...
>>>
>>> "Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote
>>>
>>>> and PS3. Do some Googling and read up on it. Download some movies
>>>> demonstrating it. Read up on their presentation at E3 2005. There's no
>>>> excuse for being ignorant.
>>>
>>> Why should I do anything for a snob?
>>>
>>
>> I'm suggesting do it for yourself, for your own enlightenment. I don't
>> see how knowledge of the Ageia PPU is 'snobbish' - you asked for a
>> practical use for the x1 slots and I gave a concrete answer. I guess
>> there are other advancements around the corner too, don't knock it.
>
> Well, you're telling me, "there's no excuse for being ignorant." That's
> kind of offensive, don't you see?
>

It wasn't intentional. People are ignorant of a lot of things, myself
included. That's humanity for you. Please don't take offense to it.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 25, 2005 12:13:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Alameda" <nothing@nowhere.net> wrote

>> Well, you're telling me, "there's no excuse for being ignorant." That's
>> kind of offensive, don't you see?
>>
>
> It wasn't intentional. People are ignorant of a lot of things, myself
> included. That's humanity for you. Please don't take offense to it.

Oh. Sorry. Kind of flame-sensitive this week!


--
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 25, 2005 1:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"Ed Light" <nobody@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:JkIEe.110520$Qo.32987@fed1read01...
>
> Oh. Sorry. Kind of flame-sensitive this week!
>

That's ok - I was meaning people in general are ignorant of such new
technologies. Take care :) 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 28, 2005 8:36:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Ed Light wrote:
> 3. What can you put in the little slots? They might as well not be there.

At the moment, not much, but they should eventually be useful for card
like add-in SATA or SCSI controllers as well as gigabit Ethernet cards,
all of which are bottlenecked by a standard PCI bus interface.

--
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To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2005 12:49:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

"First of One" <daxinfx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tbqdnYYpIb59Tn7fRVn-gQ@rogers.com...
> Cutting through all the hype, in order for the Ageia PPU to work:
>
> 1. The PPU will have to go into production first,
> 2. with good driver support,
> 3. with OpenGL or DirectX extensions to support off-loading the physics,
> 4. and show a distinct performance benefit over on-video-card processing
>
> Any incompetency in the above steps, and the thing becomes a doorstop. The
> technology is even more vulnerable to commercial failure if its only
> application is gaming.

Well, gaming is what it's built for. If you're not into gaming, chances are
you won't be picking up one of these babies.

I don't know how you can say with certainty it's "vulnerable to commercial
failure". Sony have confirmed that the Ageia PPU *WILL* be an essential part
of the Playstation 3, so I'd say their future is set as fairly bright
already.

And interestingly, just like you have concerns over "showing a distinct
performance benefit over on-video-card processing", the console fanboy camp
are currently discussing the same thing - saying "oh the Cell chip with its
7 cores is already powerful enough to do everything itself, it doesn't need
this" - but the point is clear - if you have a piece of hardware totally
dedicated to doing one thing and doing it well, the advantages over
on-video-card processing are pretty obvious.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2005 5:06:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Bill wrote:

> In article <dbndlv01c8p@news3.newsguy.com>,
> jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > In article <dbn1c60983@news2.newsguy.com>,
>> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> >> Bill wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article <dbmqam01aj@news4.newsguy.com>,
>> >> > jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid says...
>> >> >> epaton wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure
>> >> >> > its just so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little
>> >> >> > concerning that the expect people to upgrade their whole system
>> >> >> > just for a graphics card.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's Intel that expects that. They're the ones trying to cram
>> >> >> PCI-Express
>> >> >> down everybody's throat. And they're succeeding.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly
>> >> >> > priced pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would
>> >> >> > discrase a 7800 card
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that
>> >> >> > prices are in free fall and the depressing effect on the
>> >> >> > remaining 6800 should shift quickly
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "So few PCI Express buyers"? Try to find a new name-brand machine
>> >> >> with AGP. There may be a few out there but they're rare.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being
>> >> > sold
>> >> > actually use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board
>> >> > graphics? Everybody I know that's buying new PCs are getting bottom
>> >> > feeder boxes for their kids.
>> >>
>> >> Doesn't matter. If most of the machines being sold have PCI Express
>> >> then
>> >> there is no market for AGP upgrades for those machines. Or are you
>> >> unaware that in general machines with PCI Express do not have an AGP
>> >> slot?
>> >>
>> >> > Bill
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that some bottom feeder PCs
>> > with built in AGP graphics chips have no AGP slot for a card. Can't
>> > upgrade those either.
>>
>> You are not grokking the concept.
>
> I grok the concept. You haven't answered my question. I repeat. Do you
> have any idea as to what percentage of the new PCs being sold actually
> use plug in pci-express cards instead of built in/on board graphics?

Every single one of them from Dell, Hewlett-Packard, or IBM that uses a
plug-in video board.

>> It is not that one cannot upgrade PCI
>> Express machines, it is that even the most sophisticated ones cannot take
>> an AGP board. You can have AGP in a machine or you can have PCI Express,
>> but you can't have both unless you're willing to settle for one or two
>> really oddball Taiwanese motherboards of dubious stability.
>>
>> > So do all the new PCs with built in graphics chips have pci-express
>> > graphics slots in them?
>>
>> There is no such thing as a "PCI Express graphics slot" any more than
>> there is a "PCI graphics slot".
>
> So you can stick a pci-express graphics card into any pci-express slot
> and get full performance out of it. Cool.

Into any PCI Express x8 or better slot. Actually IIRC PCI Express X2
outperforms AGP.

>> PCI Express is intended to be the successor to
>> PCI as well as AGP. As for "all the new PCs", there are "new PCs" that
>> don't have _any_ slots. So what?
>
> Then they would have as little an upgrade path for graphics as the PCs
> sold with no AGP slots or pci-express slots able to take pci express
> graphics cards.

And if they have no slots then they don't figure into the AGP market any
more than they do into the PCI Express market.

>> I don't really understand what point you think you're making.
>
> Actually I'm not trying to make any point. I was just seeking a datum
> out of curiousity. See above.
>
>> If it is your
>> contention that the existence of machines with video built into the
>> chipset means that no PCI Express video boards are being sold, then
>> consider that that same argument applies to AGP.
>
> I'm contending nothing, having insufficient data to do so.
>
>> So by your reasoning no video boards of
>> any kind are being sold and I guess that ATI and nvidia both need to
>> declare bankruptcy.
>
> I have said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I see.

>> If nvidia thought that there was any kind of major market for an AGP
>> 7800, do you think that they are too stupid to recognize the fact?
>
> I think Nvidia is smart enough to make an AGP 7800 if they realize the
> market is there. I don't think they're stupid enough to pass up a
> profit if the profit is sizable enough. How may AGP 7800 do you think
> would have to be sold to make the issue of an AGP 7800 profitable?

I have no idea--nvidia does not share their internal cost figures with me.
Or with you.

>> They have
>> access to accurate sales figures for AGP vs PCI Express GPUs--they sell
>> both and one may assume that they know how many of each they have sold.
>
> They just may be waiting a while before they put out an AGP 7800, just
> like they waited to put out the AGP GeForce 6600.
>
> Below, I think you're replying to "eapton" not me. Check the
> attributions.
>
>>
>> By the way, if there were "few PCI Express buyers" then the prices would
>> not
>> be "in free fall". In electronics "free fall" comes from the economies
>> of
>> scale that occur with high sales volume. By the reasoning that "free
>> fall" indicates lack of popularity one could argue that nobody uses 100TX
>> or wifi
>> or gigabit or 250 gig disks or LCD monitors or myriad other components.
>> It costs almost the same to make a million chips as it does to make one
>> chip--most of the cost is in the setup. So the more chips you make the
>> lower the cost per chip will be.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2005 5:16:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Doug wrote:

> I've read about this, but this is a reference motherboard, not even a
> prototype. The AGP bridge also doesn't even have to be implemented. This
> isn't a motherboard that you can buy now and I don't think you'll ever be
> able to buy a PCIe/AGP motherboard.

Well, actually you can. Newegg has them in stock, refurbished, for 44
bucks. <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...;

Not a board that I would recommend to anyone, but it does exist. There are
a couple of other variants as well.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2005 5:35:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Conor wrote:

> In article <ElTDe.75424$Qo.38986@fed1read01>, Ed Light says...
>>
>> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> >>
>> > Err dumbass, AGP is dead. Good luck finding an AGP motherboard that
>> > supports the new CPUS.
>>
>> Sorry, um, tough guy. BIOS updates are flying fast and furiously. I'd be
>> surprised if there are many nforce 3's that won't run x2's.
>>
> Now try buying one.

Buying one what? Nforce 3? Old technology, nforce _4_ has been shipping
for quite some time. Or perhaps you mean a dual-core Athlon64? Newegg has
those in stock starting at 537 bucks. They also have K8T800 boards with X2
support and AGP slots.

The caveat with either is that it has to be a Socket 939 board. Most
nforce3 boards are socket 754.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2005 5:37:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

vinny wrote:

> there is a market for agp. as a matter of fact you can still find video
> cards that work on the old pci slot.

Yes, and all PCI Express machines of which I am aware have "old PCI slots"
that will take those boards, but they do _not_ have AGP slots.

> No card manufacturer is that stupid
> to limit its sales.the problem is that maybe the agp will not have enough
> bandwith to handle the new top of the line video cards that sell for $500.
> we will probably see new video card that sell for under $300 with agp.

No, the problem is that it won't be long before between low memory bandwidth
and slow processors there won't be any _point_ in putting a high end video
board in an AGP machine.

> "BigJim" <woody10277@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Z56dnfAWfssrSULfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>> it is not nvidia it is the companies that make the boards.
>> if there is no market for agp it will be gone.
>>
>> "epaton" <epaton@null.com> wrote in message
>> news:p an.2005.07.20.00.25.55.381605@null.com...
>>> apparently nvidia arent planning a on having an agp 7800, im sure its
>>> just
>>> so they can clear their 6800 stock but it is a little concerning that
>>> the expect people to upgrade their whole system just for a graphics
>>> card.
>>>
>>>
>>> under a year ago i dont think you could even buy a sensibly priced
>>> pci-express board and i doubt any agp amd64 rig would discrase a 7800
>>> card
>>>
>>> i guess the good bit is theirs so few pci-expess buyers that prices are
>>> in
>>> free fall and the depressing effect on the remaining 6800 should shift
>>> quickly
>>
>>

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--John
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2005 3:20:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia (More info?)

Ed Light wrote:

>
> "Conor" <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4b0cb36260599898a47e@news.individual.net...
>> In article <pan.2005.07.20.23.45.11.764179@null.com>, epaton says...
>>
>>
>>> it getting to be a bit off a nonissue since theres deals with 7800gtx
>>> going for £280 its soon going to be so cheap upgrade costs will become a
>>> nonissue
>>>
>> Precisely. And with a PCI-e motherboard available for £50 and your CPU,
>> Ram and HDD carrying over, what is the problem? Just go but a new
>> motherboard.
>
> 1. Costs money. Not all have it.

Now let's see, they can afford 300 bucks for a video board but not 50 bucks
for a motherboard? Then maybe they don't need the video board all that
badly either.

> 2. Has few pci slots. Some have many pci cards to insert.

Then get a board with enough PCI slots. Although if they're that poor then
how did they afford all the PCI boards?

> 3. What can you put in the little slots? They might as well not be there.

There are a number of PCI Express RAID controllers and NICs available. PCI
doesn't have enough bandwidth to get full performance out of gigabit, PCI
Express does. Also at least one PCI Express firewire board is available.
More stuff coming. Understand--PCI Express is intended to replace PCI.

> 4. PCI-e boards are still teething. You can be the guinea pig, or skip
> them this year.

While I'd agree with that assessment to some extent they've been in use for
a while, all the major brands have sold large numbers of PCI Express
machines, and I don't see any large number of complaints.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
!