Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (
More info?)
I already said that it would actually be the card that I would recommend as
long as the price was good. If not I'd still consider a 7500 class card for
the reasons I already stated. The argument about cpu's overtook the cards.
Mike
"Asestar" <a s e s t a r @ s t a r t . n o> wrote in message
news:k8Huc.84357$BD3.10647512@juliett.dax.net...
> You know, 8500 is DX8.1 capable card. So those pixelshader can be used in
> Morrowind to display fantastic / realistic looking water, lava, Kwama
egg's
> and much more effects.
> All this is not possible under 7500 or below.
> So why not recommend OP a card that can help make his game look better?
> Isn't this exactly what's driving the gfx card industry forward?
>
>
> "Mike P" <mike@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:Giwuc.50990$Np3.2202420@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > If you check my first post you'll see I said to draw your own
> conclusions...
> > Again, an 8500 will not perform near it's potential in a p3 800. While
> this
> > isn't a reason to avoid geting one on a good deal it is a reason to
avoid
> > paying top dollar based on reviews of how fast that card is because that
> can
> > be misleading. Lesser cards such as the 7500 are worth considering for
> that
> > cpu if money is tight because the difference won't be that big.
> >
> > As for your first post, Ripflex was far out but so were you in inferring
> > that a 1.2G cpu is a reasonable place to leave a cpu, which is the only
> way
> > to read it.
> >
> > And, again, because my system was much like his, I gave a useful
benchmark
> > on what to expect from a card that was mentioned in this string as a
good
> > upgrade. Again, AMD vs Intel differences, etc. are not relevant because
> he
> > is not upgrading the rest of his system.
> >
> > > >> Rebuffing a completley spurious argument that all games
> > > >> post May this year will require such a high spec system?
> > > >>
> > > You nicely ignored this point didn't you?
> >
> > Yes I did, because again it isnt releveant to what I'm saying.
> >
> > "...The point is tha it's not always/just the CPU that can be a
> > bottleneck in a system. It would be more relevant if you
> > could post experience of upgrading just the CPU in the same
> > base system. ..."
> >
> > It doesn't matter what the bottleneck is because he isn't changing
> anything.
> > For the same reason, it wouldn't be more helpful to post only a cpu
> upgrade
> > difference because the issue is how an 8500 will perform in his system,
> and
> > what I was pointing out was that it will be choked badly; it doesn't
> matter
> > what component does it (although it is a combination of all things -
> slower
> > chipset, slower fsb, slower ram, slower cpu).
> >
> > I'm not going further with the string analysis.
> > In a nutshell, so you can understand:
> >
> > - A 1.2Ghz cpu, regardless of memory or chipset, is not a realistic
gaming
> > cpu. Therefore, even though a 2G cpu may not be necessary, not much can
be
> > expected of a p3 800 for gaming.
> > - The p3 800 wil not provide the 8500 enough power to run as it is
> reported
> > to. This is worth noting because the 8500 was suggested earlier.
> Ironically
> > I think it wopuld be a good card for the OP as long as he didnt pay much
> > more than he coulkd get a 7500 class card.
> > - Newer celerons are purposely crippled with higher cache latencies, etc
> to
> > avoid the competition p2 and p3 cpus got from them... AMD xp+ cpu's are
> more
> > bandwidth hungry than cpu cycle hungry and respond better to fsb boosts
> than
> > cpu speed... DDR ram is faster than original sdram (I benched both types
> in
> > an ecs k7s5a and ran 3dmark2001 6% faster with ddr)... etc, etc, etc...
> BUT
> > none of this requires mentioning to support the fact that I ran an 8500
in
> a
> > system with almost identical performance to the OP's (that era cpu used
> > sdram and similar performing chipset)... AND I know this to be true
> because
> > I installed the same video card (in an all around faster xp1700+ system)
> and
> > got huge performance increase, which shows that the video card was very
> much
> > held back by a system much like the OP's - the reasons for that are
> > irrelevant because my point is that the p3 800 is a huge bottleneck for
> the
> > 8500, and a slower card will perform much closer to the 8500 than normal
> for
> > a newer (but still dated) system.
> >
> > So, as I stated in my first post, draw your own conclusions on that.
> >
> > My point, which I didn't want to bother to fully explain, is that the p3
> 800
> > wil not run fast video cars like they are meant to be, and a slightly
> lesser
> > card could be considered without a big drop in performance. This is
> > pertinent to your post because you were inferring that a 1.2GHz cpu is
> > sufficient for a new game like HL2; if this were the case, (disregarding
> the
> > issue about the variety of 1.2G cpu's), then a p3 800 would seem to be
> able
> > to fare pretty well for gaming, in which case... why not get a really
nice
> > speed boost and get a 9800pro...
> >
> > The OP can, if he chooses use the information I gave when choosing a new
> > card because I gave a benchmark of how a similar system to his worked
with
> a
> > specific gaming card, and noted that it did work near it's potential.
> >
> > Anyway I've said all I have to say on this matter... I'm sure most
people
> > have long lost interest in this dispute even more so than me...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "Lithurge" <bogorfspam@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94F9D32683629ds34543dsffds@130.133.1.4...
> > > "Mike P" <mikepos@nbnetNospaM.nb.ca> wrote in
> > > news:AIpuc.50767$Np3.2190789@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:
> > >
> > > > My point is that a celeron 900 is very close in performance
> > > > to his, and the board, sdram etc would be too. So he can
> > > > see from my single experience, which is very similar to
> > > > what his will be, My single experience provides direct >
> > > comparison
> > > > to the OP.
> > >
> > > But what relation did this bear to my original post? Just
> > > imagine somebody newly posted to a newsgroup ' all games
> > > coming out from next month will require a 2ghz processor, 1gb
> > > ram & a 256mb graphics card'
> > >
> > > See what I responed to now?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There is no need to go into the willful crippling of the
> > > > later celerons (which I think is what got you confused
> > > > about the cel900), AMD architecture vs Intel, etc, etc
> > > > because it isn't relevant.
> > > >
> > > > ... and the first time you showed ignorance was when you
> > > > posted :
> > > >
> > > > "...Nice gross generalisation there, especially as Gabe
> > > > Newell was quoted in PCZone's latest issue as indicating
> > > > once you get over 1.2 ghz processor you won't see much
> > > > improvement in Half Life 2 so long as you have 256mb ram &
> > > > a DX9 card. "
> > >
> > > Hello put it back in the original context (outlined above) &
> > > we see Gabes comments were if you have a specific system, not
> > > if you upgrade from one system to a completley different one.
> > > Let's carry on down shall we?
> > >
> > >
> > > > In your own words,
> > > > "... Of course you're
> > > >> also ignoring things like, new mobo, Ram speeds, relative
> > > >> speeds of AMD processors to Intel etc... "
> > > >
> > > > the 1.2Ghz quote you posted is very rellevant to such
> > > > things, whereas the
> > > > point I was making does not require getting into those
> > > > details.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The point is tha it's not always/just the CPU that can be a
> > > bottleneck in a system. It would be more relevant if you
> > > could post experience of upgrading just the CPU in the same
> > > base system.
> > >
> > > And as Asestar has already pointed out just because it may
> > > not run to it's full potential is not a reason to not upgrade
> > > your card. I did this with the original Geforce as it would
> > > improve the performance slightly over my current card.
> > > Although I acknowledge I was also planning a more thorough
> > > upgrade shrotly.
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Rebuffing a completley spurious argument that all games
> > > >> post May this year will require such a high spec system?
> > > >>
> > > You nicely ignored this point didn't you?
> > >
> > > It seems you're not 100% au fait about the use of snipping
> > > within usenet, if you reread my post you'll see I completley
> > > snipped the OP posters text. My point re Gabes quote was a
> > > reply to somebody saying 2ghz 512mb ram etc... was what all
> > > games post May would require.
> > >
> > > There is no logic that even fits this as being a response to
> > > the OP request for advice on a card that would prolong the
> > > life of his 800Mhz processor.
> > >
> > > You're posting of your experience, regardless of the crippled
> > > processor & all Celerons were crippled to a greater or lesser
> > > degree, is irrelevant to my original post. Try posting to the
> > > the correct post and don't tack it on to one that has little
> > > bearing on the original, it'll save confusion..
> > >
> > > And before you say something about the title I did not change
> > > it as it annoys a lot of people.
> >
> >
>
>
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