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Does the ability to use cached logon expire?

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Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 12:26:48 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Hello,

Some of my laptop users claim that they can not use cached logons. I've
check the config in AD and in the registry on the latop, it defaults to 10.

Any tips?

Thx
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 12:26:49 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Yes, once they've logged on 10 times with the "cached" credentials, they
need to log on to the Domain to reset it.

--
Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your service!
"Google is your Friend!"
www.google.com

***********************************************

<workinghard@news.postalias> wrote in message
news:eMIjgWWCFHA.1260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Hello,
>
> Some of my laptop users claim that they can not use cached logons. I've
> check the config in AD and in the registry on the latop, it defaults to
10.
>
> Any tips?
>
> Thx
>
>
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 10:01:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Hello,

Do you refer to the CachedLogonsCount in the registry key? You can change
the number of previous logon attempts that a server will cache. By default,
Windows NT will remember the 10 most recent logon attempts. The valid range
of values for this parameter is 0 to 50. A value of 0 turns off logon
caching and any value above 50 will only cache 50 logon attempts.

In other word, if you set the key to 10, the server will allow 10 user
account to rememeber the cache information, however, the 11th user account
cannot use the cached mode to logon since it exceeds the max user account
who are permitted to use cached logon.

Therefore, you can increase key to 50 to allow 50 user accounts to use
cached logon.

For more details, please refer to the following article:

Cached Logon Information
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=172931

As Admiral said " they've logged on 10 times with the "cached"
credentials", I guess you may have refer to the help and support center,
which explains the "Interactive Logon" as follows:

"Determines the number of times a user can log on to a Windows domain using
cached account information".

I believe this has misleaded you to believe 10 refers to the 10 times after
the user attempt to logon. I am sorry to say the Help and support center
has incorrectly addressed this explanation. This has been been updated,
however, we have a published KB article to correct this.

The following is the correct version of the first sentence of the Help
topic that is described in the "Symptoms" section:
Determines the number of different unique users who can log on to a Windows
domain by using cached account information.

For more details, please refer to the following article:
"Interactive Logon: Number of Previous Logons to Cache" Help Topic Contains
Incorrect Information
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825805

Any update, let us get in touch!

Best regards,

Rebecca Chen

MCSE2000 MCDBA CCNA


Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

=====================================================

When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.

=====================================================
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 2:10:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Admiral Q wrote:

> Yes, once they've logged on 10 times with the "cached"
> credentials, they need to log on to the Domain to reset it.
Hi

That is incorrect.

Note that the CachedLogonsCount is a number indicating for how many
users the computer should remember cached credentials for, and not
how many times a user can log on with cached credentials in a row
(because that is unlimited and cannot be changed)...


More here:

Microsoft Windows 2000 Security Hardening Guide
Chapter 5 - Security Configuration
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/prodtech/win2...

<quote>
Disable Caching of Logon Information

Security Objective: Windows 2000 has the capability to cache logon
information. If the Domain Controller cannot be found during logon
and the user has logged on to the system in the past, it can use
those credentials to log on. This is extremely useful, for example,
on portable computers, which need to be used when the user is away
from the network. The CachedLogonsCount Registry valued determines
how many user account entries Windows 2000 saves in the logon cache
on the local computer. The logon cache is a secured area of the
computer and the credentials are protected using the strongest form
of encryption available on the system. If the value of this entry
is 0, Windows 2000 does not save any user account data in the logon
cache. In that case, if the user's Domain Controller is not
available and a user tries to log on to a computer that does not
have the user's account information, Windows 2000 displays the
following message:

The system cannot log you on now because the domain <Domain-name>
is not available.

If the Administrator disables a user's domain account, the user
could still use the cache to log on by disconnecting the net cable.
To prevent this, Administrators may disable the caching of logon
information. The default setting allows caching of 10 sets of
credentials.

Recommendation: Set this to at least 2 to ensure that the system
is usable while the domain controllers are down or unavailable.
</quote>



--
torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.m...
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 2:28:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Hello,

So what this means is that (with a value of 10 for CachedLogonsCount) only
the first 10 users who have ever logged in to that machine use cached
credentials to logon to that machine. Number 11 is out of luck. And may I
conlcude that those first 10 users can log in with cached credentials
indefinitly? I believe this is the case. What happend is that some of our
mobile users claim that they have logged in to the laptop a fortnight ago,
after them perhaps a dozen people logged in (common laptop for application
intervention accross the country) and that after that they could no longer
log in which is a scenario that I think should not happen. I think that
since he was one of the first 10 log on to the laptop he should be able to
log in using cached credentials. Hence my questions if the ability to use
cached credentials can expire.

Thanks to both of you for your help, I appreciate it.


"Rebecca Chen [MSFT]" <v-rebc@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:NZJVq4bCFHA.644@cpmsftngxa10.phx.gbl...
> Hello,
>
> Do you refer to the CachedLogonsCount in the registry key? You can change
> the number of previous logon attempts that a server will cache. By
> default,
> Windows NT will remember the 10 most recent logon attempts. The valid
> range
> of values for this parameter is 0 to 50. A value of 0 turns off logon
> caching and any value above 50 will only cache 50 logon attempts.
>
> In other word, if you set the key to 10, the server will allow 10 user
> account to rememeber the cache information, however, the 11th user account
> cannot use the cached mode to logon since it exceeds the max user account
> who are permitted to use cached logon.
>
> Therefore, you can increase key to 50 to allow 50 user accounts to use
> cached logon.
>
> For more details, please refer to the following article:
>
> Cached Logon Information
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=172931
>
> As Admiral said " they've logged on 10 times with the "cached"
> credentials", I guess you may have refer to the help and support center,
> which explains the "Interactive Logon" as follows:
>
> "Determines the number of times a user can log on to a Windows domain
> using
> cached account information".
>
> I believe this has misleaded you to believe 10 refers to the 10 times
> after
> the user attempt to logon. I am sorry to say the Help and support center
> has incorrectly addressed this explanation. This has been been updated,
> however, we have a published KB article to correct this.
>
> The following is the correct version of the first sentence of the Help
> topic that is described in the "Symptoms" section:
> Determines the number of different unique users who can log on to a
> Windows
> domain by using cached account information.
>
> For more details, please refer to the following article:
> "Interactive Logon: Number of Previous Logons to Cache" Help Topic
> Contains
> Incorrect Information
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825805
>
> Any update, let us get in touch!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rebecca Chen
>
> MCSE2000 MCDBA CCNA
>
>
> Microsoft Online Partner Support
> Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
>
> =====================================================
>
> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
> that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
>
> =====================================================
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 4:42:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

workinghard@news.postalias wrote:

> Hello,
>
> So what this means is that (with a value of 10 for CachedLogonsCount) only
> the first 10 users who have ever logged in to that machine use cached
> credentials to logon to that machine. Number 11 is out of luck. And may I
> conlcude that those first 10 users can log in with cached credentials
> indefinitly? I believe this is the case.
Hi

I would think Windows will remember the 10 most *recent* logon
attempts (for different users), this way it is the oldest logon
cache entries that will be purged when the allowed number is
surpassed.


--
torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.m...
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 3, 2005 11:11:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

I be danged - I stand corrected - thanks.

--
Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your service!
"Google is your Friend!"
www.google.com

***********************************************

"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" <Torgeir.Bakken-spam@hydro.com> wrote in message
news:#DcwyjdCFHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Admiral Q wrote:
>
> > Yes, once they've logged on 10 times with the "cached"
> > credentials, they need to log on to the Domain to reset it.
> Hi
>
> That is incorrect.
>
> Note that the CachedLogonsCount is a number indicating for how many
> users the computer should remember cached credentials for, and not
> how many times a user can log on with cached credentials in a row
> (because that is unlimited and cannot be changed)...
>
>
> More here:
>
> Microsoft Windows 2000 Security Hardening Guide
> Chapter 5 - Security Configuration
>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/prodtech/win2...
>
> <quote>
> Disable Caching of Logon Information
>
> Security Objective: Windows 2000 has the capability to cache logon
> information. If the Domain Controller cannot be found during logon
> and the user has logged on to the system in the past, it can use
> those credentials to log on. This is extremely useful, for example,
> on portable computers, which need to be used when the user is away
> from the network. The CachedLogonsCount Registry valued determines
> how many user account entries Windows 2000 saves in the logon cache
> on the local computer. The logon cache is a secured area of the
> computer and the credentials are protected using the strongest form
> of encryption available on the system. If the value of this entry
> is 0, Windows 2000 does not save any user account data in the logon
> cache. In that case, if the user's Domain Controller is not
> available and a user tries to log on to a computer that does not
> have the user's account information, Windows 2000 displays the
> following message:
>
> The system cannot log you on now because the domain <Domain-name>
> is not available.
>
> If the Administrator disables a user's domain account, the user
> could still use the cache to log on by disconnecting the net cable.
> To prevent this, Administrators may disable the caching of logon
> information. The default setting allows caching of 10 sets of
> credentials.
>
> Recommendation: Set this to at least 2 to ensure that the system
> is usable while the domain controllers are down or unavailable.
> </quote>
>
>
>
> --
> torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
> Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
> the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.m...
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 4, 2005 3:39:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Thank you Torgeir, Your input is -as always - appreciated, can we get
confirmation on this issue?


"Torgeir Bakken (MVP)" <Torgeir.Bakken-spam@hydro.com> wrote in message
news:%23EIlL5eCFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> workinghard@news.postalias wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> So what this means is that (with a value of 10 for CachedLogonsCount)
>> only the first 10 users who have ever logged in to that machine use
>> cached credentials to logon to that machine. Number 11 is out of luck.
>> And may I conlcude that those first 10 users can log in with cached
>> credentials indefinitly? I believe this is the case.
> Hi
>
> I would think Windows will remember the 10 most *recent* logon
> attempts (for different users), this way it is the oldest logon
> cache entries that will be purged when the allowed number is
> surpassed.
>
>
> --
> torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
> Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
> the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.m...
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
February 4, 2005 11:41:12 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.security_admin (More info?)

Torgeir's understanding is correct that tge 10 most *recent* logon attempts
(for different users), the system will cache the 10 last users. Therefore,
it follows FIFO, which mean the 11user will cause the 1st user cache will
be purged.

HTH!

Best regards,

Rebecca Chen

MCSE2000 MCDBA CCNA


Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

=====================================================

When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.

=====================================================
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
!