Sound physics

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

With HL2 being praised for its physics engine, I've wondered why Valve
didn't carry that through with sound. Has anyone else noticed that sound
travels instantly in the game? Since it would be ridiculously easy to
implement - delay a sound based in its distance from the player - I have
to assume that someone at Valve at least tried it and decided not to use
it. Perhaps because it would be unnoticeable for most sound events. Even
still, imagine seeing a gunship explode just prior to hearing the
explosion. It wouldn't be that much different than watching fireworks and
we all know how that goes. Moving objects would possibly create a doppler
effect, yet Far Cry does doppler effects.

So what do you think? Would speed-of-sound physics make the game even
more immersive or be a waste of effort? (Please, no comments about
stuttering.)


--
sda_mail Scott | Yields over 30 blasts or
@comcast.net Amspoker | 80 gentle honks per charge!
^ my email |

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Yes, considering the vast expanses this is a concept that should have made
it into the game...


"Scott Amspoker" <see_sig@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vhmju01gqko00e6ugu2ev8mvhcn251pqk3@4ax.com...
>
> With HL2 being praised for its physics engine, I've wondered why Valve
> didn't carry that through with sound. Has anyone else noticed that sound
> travels instantly in the game? Since it would be ridiculously easy to
> implement - delay a sound based in its distance from the player - I have
> to assume that someone at Valve at least tried it and decided not to use
> it. Perhaps because it would be unnoticeable for most sound events. Even
> still, imagine seeing a gunship explode just prior to hearing the
> explosion. It wouldn't be that much different than watching fireworks and
> we all know how that goes. Moving objects would possibly create a doppler
> effect, yet Far Cry does doppler effects.
>
> So what do you think? Would speed-of-sound physics make the game even
> more immersive or be a waste of effort? (Please, no comments about
> stuttering.)
>
>
> --
> sda_mail Scott | Yields over 30 blasts or
> @comcast.net Amspoker | 80 gentle honks per charge!
> ^ my email |

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Scott Amspoker" <see_sig@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vhmju01gqko00e6ugu2ev8mvhcn251pqk3@4ax.com
> With HL2 being praised for its physics engine, I've wondered why Valve
> didn't carry that through with sound. Has anyone else noticed that
> sound travels instantly in the game? Since it would be ridiculously
> easy to implement - delay a sound based in its distance from the
> player - I have to assume that someone at Valve at least tried it and
> decided not to use it. Perhaps because it would be unnoticeable for
> most sound events. Even still, imagine seeing a gunship explode just
> prior to hearing the explosion. It wouldn't be that much different
> than watching fireworks and we all know how that goes. Moving
> objects would possibly create a doppler effect, yet Far Cry does
> doppler effects.
>
> So what do you think? Would speed-of-sound physics make the game even
> more immersive or be a waste of effort? (Please, no comments about
> stuttering.)

I think the game does use doppler. It does use echoes, and sounds from
impacts and detonations are delayed a bit. At least on MY system they
are. There are a lot of settings for the sounds. You don't have menu
access to as many sound variables as you do graphics. Sound setting
selections are generally automatic it seems.
McG.

 

[shawk]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Scott Amspoker wrote:
> With HL2 being praised for its physics engine, I've wondered why Valve
> didn't carry that through with sound. Has anyone else noticed that sound
> travels instantly in the game? Since it would be ridiculously easy to
> implement - delay a sound based in its distance from the player - I have
> to assume that someone at Valve at least tried it and decided not to use
> it. Perhaps because it would be unnoticeable for most sound events. Even
> still, imagine seeing a gunship explode just prior to hearing the
> explosion. It wouldn't be that much different than watching fireworks and
> we all know how that goes. Moving objects would possibly create a doppler
> effect, yet Far Cry does doppler effects.
>
> So what do you think? Would speed-of-sound physics make the game even
> more immersive or be a waste of effort? (Please, no comments about
> stuttering.)
>
>
Scott, haven't played for a while (determined to finish the other games
on the shelf) but this might already be in there. Only example I can
think of at the moment is throwing the mines into the sea from the
cliffs with the GG and getting an 'echoed' explosion back. Was that
instantaneous? I'll have to try it later.

Shaun

--
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Scott Amspoker wrote:
> With HL2 being praised for its physics engine, I've wondered why Valve
> didn't carry that through with sound. Has anyone else noticed that sound
> travels instantly in the game? Since it would be ridiculously easy to
> implement - delay a sound based in its distance from the player - I have
> to assume that someone at Valve at least tried it and decided not to use
> it. Perhaps because it would be unnoticeable for most sound events. Even
> still, imagine seeing a gunship explode just prior to hearing the
> explosion. It wouldn't be that much different than watching fireworks and
> we all know how that goes. Moving objects would possibly create a doppler
> effect, yet Far Cry does doppler effects.
>
> So what do you think? Would speed-of-sound physics make the game even
> more immersive or be a waste of effort? (Please, no comments about
> stuttering.)
>
>

What kind of sounds did you notice being instantanaeous?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Walter Mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>What kind of sounds did you notice being instantanaeous?

Any number of things done from a distance. Shoot an exploding barrel from
as far away as possible. Shawk mentioned throwing mines into the sea from
the cliffs. I just went in and tried that. The visual of the water
exploding coincides with the sound effect. Watch distant striders firing
their guns. (I'll bet those huge thumpers would be another example if
somebody wants to check.)

I noticed this matter quite some time ago when playing the game. I bring
it up now because yesterday I was watching somebody across a 4-lane street
hammering a fence and there was a noticeable sound delay even though the
distance wasn't that great. It made me think once again of the physics of
HL2.

Granted, distances seem exaggerated in HL2 and objects are closer than
they appear. But I'm certainly not *perceiving* any sound delay even in
situations where I think it would be quite noticeable. (And let's not
talk about echoes and such, that's a different matter entirely.)

I don't think it has to do with sound cards or configurations (though it's
possible). This type of game engine must maintain a list of scheduled
events. The difference between triggering a sound now and scheduling it
to be triggered in 300ms seems trivial enough not to be dependant on
hardware or drivers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching at Valve about this or anything. I'm
just curious because:

1. I'm under the impression that there is no sound delay implemented

2. I'm suspect that such a feature would not be burdensome to implement

3. I speculate that such a feature was considered and deliberately left
out.

4. I could be wrong about all of the above.


--
sda_mail Scott | Yields over 30 blasts or
@comcast.net Amspoker | 80 gentle honks per charge!
^ my email |

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Scott Amspoker" <see_sig@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vhmju01gqko00e6ugu2ev8mvhcn251pqk3@4ax.com...
>
> With HL2 being praised for its physics engine, I've wondered why Valve
> didn't carry that through with sound. Has anyone else noticed that sound
> travels instantly in the game? Since it would be ridiculously easy to
> implement - delay a sound based in its distance from the player - I have
> to assume that someone at Valve at least tried it and decided not to use
> it. Perhaps because it would be unnoticeable for most sound events. Even
> still, imagine seeing a gunship explode just prior to hearing the
> explosion. It wouldn't be that much different than watching fireworks and
> we all know how that goes. Moving objects would possibly create a doppler
> effect, yet Far Cry does doppler effects.
>
> So what do you think? Would speed-of-sound physics make the game even
> more immersive or be a waste of effort? (Please, no comments about
> stuttering.)

HL1 used to do "realistic" sound physics of a sort with the Aureal 3D engine.
IIRC, echoes generated by A3D were "real" reflections from surfaces, not the
simulated reverb of EAX. Sadly A3D is no longer with us The directional
sound effects with just a set of headphones were brilliant, and useful in CS &
TFC.

I think there is something of a simulated delay when you shoot the gunships. At
least, I'm fairly sure the explosion sounds don't directly match the visuals.
Even though the landscape is more open than in HL1, I don't think the distances
are really far enough to bother with these kind of effects. The CPU overhead
would be large for such a minimal effect.

A somewhat different point, but I have been very disappointed with the footstep
sounds in HL2. In HL1 the footstep sounds were one of the initial joys of the
game, running up and down along the metal catwalks in the Hazard Course just to
hear the noise it made Maybe the sounds were a little OTT, but in HL2 you
can barely hear the footsteps unless you are landing from a jump, and they don't
make any distinctive sounds when walking on unusual surfaces, unless it is water
or sludge. In particular, the roof tiles in the rooftop chase sequence make no
distinctive sound whatsoever (ever walked on roof tiles?), and neither do the
metal beams and walkways under the bridge. After making such efforts with this
in HL1, I wonder why they decided not to bother this time.

--
Paul

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Paul Catley"

> A somewhat different point, but I have been very disappointed with the
> footstep
> sounds in HL2. In HL1 the footstep sounds were one of the initial joys of
> the
> game, running up and down along the metal catwalks in the Hazard Course
> just to
> hear the noise it made

HL1 rulez and still does

- Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:04:34 -0700, Scott Amspoker
<see_sig@nospam.com> wrote:

>Walter Mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>

>Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching at Valve about this or anything. I'm
>just curious because:
>
>1. I'm under the impression that there is no sound delay implemented
>
>2. I'm suspect that such a feature would not be burdensome to implement
>
>3. I speculate that such a feature was considered and deliberately left
>out.
>
>4. I could be wrong about all of the above.

Have you tried playing online yet? The first thing I noticed on the MP
maps was any real sense of where sounds were coming from, and how far
away they were. I can be on the building in dm_overwatch and not have
a clue whether distant gunshots are inside, outside, above or below
me. It's not quite as bad as a game like Serious Sam, but it's not
great for a game like HL2.

--
steve <AT> steveevans <DOT> org

 

[shawk]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Scott Amspoker wrote:

> Shawk mentioned throwing mines into the sea from
> the cliffs. I just went in and tried that. The visual of the water
> exploding coincides with the sound effect. Watch distant striders firing
> their guns. (I'll bet those huge thumpers would be another example if
> somebody wants to check.)
>

Thanks for that - wasn't sure but thought that if it was implemented
anywhere that'd be the place.

--
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Steve Evans wrote:
>
> Have you tried playing online yet? The first thing I noticed on the MP
> maps was any real sense of where sounds were coming from, and how far
> away they were. I can be on the building in dm_overwatch and not have
> a clue whether distant gunshots are inside, outside, above or below
> me. It's not quite as bad as a game like Serious Sam, but it's not
> great for a game like HL2.

And yet HL1 was brilliant for positional audio.

--
Paul

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Have you looked at your sound setup? (headphones,5.1, 7.1, etc.) It may
be that it's just mis-setup.

-Acercanto
user: forestman domain: vt.edu


> Paul Catley wrote:
> Steve Evans wrote:
>
>>Have you tried playing online yet? The first thing I noticed on the MP
>>maps was any real sense of where sounds were coming from, and how far
>>away they were. I can be on the building in dm_overwatch and not have
>>a clue whether distant gunshots are inside, outside, above or below
>>me. It's not quite as bad as a game like Serious Sam, but it's not
>>great for a game like HL2.
>
>
> And yet HL1 was brilliant for positional audio.
>
> --
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

I still use A3D in Half-Life. Its not so good with speakers - but if you
have s decent set of headphones it's really positional.

Civilian_Target

Paul Catley wrote:

> HL1 used to do "realistic" sound physics of a sort with the Aureal 3D engine.
> IIRC, echoes generated by A3D were "real" reflections from surfaces, not the
> simulated reverb of EAX. Sadly A3D is no longer with us The directional
> sound effects with just a set of headphones were brilliant, and useful in CS &
> TFC.