Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

9800pro->XT 2D problems

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 2:53:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.

I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
one day, another day it may not happen at all.

Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?

System: XP 2400+, ASUS A7V266E, 768MB Ram, Win XP, Catalyst 4.11 drivers.

More about : 9800pro problems

Anonymous
November 30, 2004 2:53:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

It boggles my mind why people take the risk of flashing the 9800Pro to XT
when the only real difference is clock speed.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Knut Nilsen" <knu-nils@online.nospam> wrote in message
news:%LNqd.73122$Vf.3487455@news000.worldonline.dk...
> I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
> instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
> worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
> getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
> running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.
>
> I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
> errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
> apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
> not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
> boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
> one day, another day it may not happen at all.
>
> Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?
>
> System: XP 2400+, ASUS A7V266E, 768MB Ram, Win XP, Catalyst 4.11 drivers.
>
>
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 10:08:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Knut Nilsen" <knu-nils@online.nospam> wrote in message
news:%LNqd.73122$Vf.3487455@news000.worldonline.dk...
> I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
> instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
> worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
> getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
> running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.
>
> I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
> errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
> apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
> not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
> boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
> one day, another day it may not happen at all.
>
> Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?

Well, ya overclocks things, ya takes yer chances. Perhaps the 2D part of the
chip core doesn't like the extra heat. You may want to remove the
heatsink/fan assembly and make sure there is a good contact patch of thermal
spooge between the base of the heatsink and the VPU core top. Sometimes it
ain't too well-covered. I use Arctic Silver, just enough to fill the very
small gap without getting everywhere else...

But first, you may want to reflash it to the original clocks to make sure
you didn't b0rk something...

>
> System: XP 2400+, ASUS A7V266E, 768MB Ram, Win XP, Catalyst 4.11 drivers.
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 3:26:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

First of One wrote:
> It boggles my mind why people take the risk of flashing the 9800Pro to XT
> when the only real difference is clock speed.
>
Not 100% right. There are feature differences in the Pro and XT; the
original 9800Pro was based on the R350 chip, while the XT is based on
the R360 chip. Newer pro's also have the R360 chip, but their BIOS
firmware 'believes' that they are R350's and treats them as such. So my
9800Pro was actually a 'crippled' XT - with R350 BIOS and less and
cheaper RAM.

When I flashed the 9800Pro to XT, I 'underclocked' it; started running
it at the same clock speed as the Pro, in order not to overheat the RAM.
Still, it had a approx 10-15% performance increase on the benchmarks I
ran, (3Dmark and aquamark), and I could actually measure frame rate
increase in Doom3. Then, as I carefully increased the speed i saw only a
slight performance increase. I now run it at 412 / 338 which is
standard XT speed for the VPU but standard Pro speed for the RAM - the
RAM doesn't overclock well, but I have run the VPU at 466 without
problems. However, varying clock speed has very little impact on the
benchmark results.

My experience very much confirms what they have found at
http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=3&var1=92...
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 3:28:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Nerdillius Maximus wrote:
> "Knut Nilsen" <knu-nils@online.nospam> wrote in message
> news:%LNqd.73122$Vf.3487455@news000.worldonline.dk...
>
>>I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
>>instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
>>worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
>>getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
>>running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.
>>
>>I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
>>errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
>>apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
>>not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
>>boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
>>one day, another day it may not happen at all.
>>
>>Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?
>
>
> Well, ya overclocks things, ya takes yer chances. Perhaps the 2D part of the
> chip core doesn't like the extra heat. You may want to remove the
> heatsink/fan assembly and make sure there is a good contact patch of thermal
> spooge between the base of the heatsink and the VPU core top. Sometimes it
> ain't too well-covered. I use Arctic Silver, just enough to fill the very
> small gap without getting everywhere else...
>
> But first, you may want to reflash it to the original clocks to make sure
> you didn't b0rk something...
>
>
>>System: XP 2400+, ASUS A7V266E, 768MB Ram, Win XP, Catalyst 4.11 drivers.
>>
>>
>
>
>
You're probably right about the heatsink/fan thing. A pity there's no
temperature probe on the Pro...
Anonymous
November 30, 2004 8:48:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello!

I recently upgraded to a stock 9600XT myself. I am having exact same
symptoms with my machine, where 3D performance is rock stable and there
occur VPU recoveries every once in a while in 2D, MS Word or iExplorer
being the worst (but not only) offenders. The card isn't overclocked or
modded in any way, and no matter which drivers are used the problem
seems to remain.

Unfortunately I didn't manage to resolve the issue myself, but reading
your post I do believe the problem lies with the mainboard, as mine is
the Asus A7V266-C so it's not that far removed from yours (XP1800+,
768MB). I hope some other people who may have similar problems may write
in to determine if that is indeed the source of the problem.

Greetings,

-Gregor


Knut Nilsen wrote:
> I upgraded my Connect3D 9800Pro 128MB to an XT following the
> instructions on www.rojakpot.com, tested it thoroughly, everything
> worked flawlessly. Until a week or two later, when I suddenly start
> getting VPU Reckover errors - not when running 3D apps or games, but
> running 'ordinary' programs like iExplorer or MS Word.
>
> I can play games for hours, no problems at all. I have never seen any
> errors when running games or 3D apps. But when running normal desktop
> apps, I get random VPU Reckover errors. Can't seem to find a pattern -
> not related to a special application or action, it can happen just after
> boot up or it can happen after 12 hours, it can happen 4 times in a row
> one day, another day it may not happen at all.
>
> Anyone seen anything even remotely like this?
>
> System: XP 2400+, ASUS A7V266E, 768MB Ram, Win XP, Catalyst 4.11 drivers.
>
>
Anonymous
December 1, 2004 3:41:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Gregor Veble wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I recently upgraded to a stock 9600XT myself. I am having exact same
> symptoms with my machine, where 3D performance is rock stable and there
> occur VPU recoveries every once in a while in 2D, MS Word or iExplorer
> being the worst (but not only) offenders. The card isn't overclocked or
> modded in any way, and no matter which drivers are used the problem
> seems to remain.
>
> Unfortunately I didn't manage to resolve the issue myself, but reading
> your post I do believe the problem lies with the mainboard, as mine is
> the Asus A7V266-C so it's not that far removed from yours (XP1800+,
> 768MB). I hope some other people who may have similar problems may write
> in to determine if that is indeed the source of the problem.
>

Interesting. I did some googling for ati xp and the kt266 chipset, but
didn't find anything. However, it seems to me that the drivers crash
somehow; I've sometimes experienced that the screen just goes black, and
I normally have to reboot, but sometimes I can get back to working, and
then 2D acceleration is off (i.e. the screen redraws real slowly) and
the ATI icon on the taskbar is gone.

I did try to completely remove (using Driver Cleaner 3) and reinstall
the drivers - no good results. But I've found a way of reproducing the
error - try starting MS Word, and press CTRL-H to open the Find and
Replace dialog (it sort of pops up from the bottom right of the word
window). Press cancel, then press CTRL-H again; repeat two or three
times. Then the system hangs and the VPU recover error appears - at
least for me.

I'll try disabling some of the 2D acceleration features, and see what
happens.

If you can reproduce the error the same way as I do, could you send an
error report to ATI and post the response you get, if any? I probably
won't get any - I've voided my warranty, i guess..... :-)


Knut
Anonymous
December 1, 2004 1:37:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Knut Nilsen wrote:
>
> Interesting. I did some googling for ati xp and the kt266 chipset, but
> didn't find anything. However, it seems to me that the drivers crash
> somehow; I've sometimes experienced that the screen just goes black, and
> I normally have to reboot, but sometimes I can get back to working, and
> then 2D acceleration is off (i.e. the screen redraws real slowly) and
> the ATI icon on the taskbar is gone.
>
> I did try to completely remove (using Driver Cleaner 3) and reinstall
> the drivers - no good results. But I've found a way of reproducing the
> error - try starting MS Word, and press CTRL-H to open the Find and
> Replace dialog (it sort of pops up from the bottom right of the word
> window). Press cancel, then press CTRL-H again; repeat two or three
> times. Then the system hangs and the VPU recover error appears - at
> least for me.
>
> I'll try disabling some of the 2D acceleration features, and see what
> happens.
>
> If you can reproduce the error the same way as I do, could you send an
> error report to ATI and post the response you get, if any? I probably
> won't get any - I've voided my warranty, i guess..... :-)
>
>
> Knut


Hello!

Thanks for the tip, that was something I was looking for, a consistent
way to crash it. I did play a bit with graphics acceleration (though not
much) and that didn't seem to make much of a difference, but if I can
test it consistently that might help. I will play and let you know.

-Gregor
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 12:11:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Gregor Veble wrote:

>
>
> Hello!
>
> Thanks for the tip, that was something I was looking for, a consistent
> way to crash it. I did play a bit with graphics acceleration (though not
> much) and that didn't seem to make much of a difference, but if I can
> test it consistently that might help. I will play and let you know.
>
> -Gregor

It is definitely related to window drawing/resizing. I have disabled
'full window dragging' and animation during window
minimizing/maximizing, and it has reduced the crash frequency, although
it still occurs from time to time.

Had any luck with your testing, yet?

Knut
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 1:07:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

So... you get a temperature sensor and a stupid-conservative Overdrive
panel. These are not useful features and certainly do not impact image
quality.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Knut Nilsen" <knu-nils@online.nospam> wrote in message
news:gNYqd.73172$Vf.3493642@news000.worldonline.dk...
> Not 100% right. There are feature differences in the Pro and XT; the
> original 9800Pro was based on the R350 chip, while the XT is based on
> the R360 chip. Newer pro's also have the R360 chip, but their BIOS
> firmware 'believes' that they are R350's and treats them as such. So my
> 9800Pro was actually a 'crippled' XT - with R350 BIOS and less and
> cheaper RAM.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 2:34:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

First of One wrote:
> So... you get a temperature sensor and a stupid-conservative Overdrive
> panel. These are not useful features and certainly do not impact image
> quality.
>
No, I got a 10-15% higher performance on all tests that I ran, even at
equal clock speeds (referenced to testing with an overclocked pro before
flashing). There are minor differences between the R350 and R360 chip.
And, by the way, I didn't get the temp sensor; it's not supported on the
128MB PCB. But as you say, they're not very useful - except a temp
sensor would probably be nice.

I'll probably have to flash it back anyway, if I can't get the 2D crash
problem to disappear. But it was worth trying, anyway...
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 1:54:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello!

I didn't get much time during the weekend, but at least I tested the
opening and closing of the Replace window in Word, and indeed, after a
few of such iterations the whole thing goes into the kind of error I am
experiencing.

What I also tried is something I've seen suggested, namely NOT using the
Hyperion VIA AGP driver but the one that comes with XP SP2, supposedly
there's some standard incompatibilities that may occur othrewise.
Unfortunately, that didn't seem to cure anything. Did you by any chance
run this card before XP SP2 and had the same issues? I only got mine
after SP2 was already on my machine.

Now, a lot of people say it can be related with the power supply, such
instabilities, but I am inclined to believe it would then also appear
during gameplay where the card is stressed highest, but since the
performance is then rock solid I don't believe that's an issue.
Admittedly my supply is probably not amongst the best (don't even know
what it is to be honest), so I am wondering if you perhaps ruled out
this option yourself? It might be that the window resizes put quite some
strain on AGP which the games don't to that extent, and that this is
what is causing probs.

Greetings,

-Gregor

Knut Nilsen wrote:
>
>
> It is definitely related to window drawing/resizing. I have disabled
> 'full window dragging' and animation during window
> minimizing/maximizing, and it has reduced the crash frequency, although
> it still occurs from time to time.
>
> Had any luck with your testing, yet?
>
> Knut
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 9:25:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Gregor Veble wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I didn't get much time during the weekend, but at least I tested the
> opening and closing of the Replace window in Word, and indeed, after a
> few of such iterations the whole thing goes into the kind of error I am
> experiencing.

So, I would say we see the same problem - interesting since the 9600xt
that you use has a differeng GPU than mine (RV360 vs R360).

>
> What I also tried is something I've seen suggested, namely NOT using the
> Hyperion VIA AGP driver but the one that comes with XP SP2, supposedly
> there's some standard incompatibilities that may occur othrewise.
> Unfortunately, that didn't seem to cure anything. Did you by any chance
> run this card before XP SP2 and had the same issues? I only got mine
> after SP2 was already on my machine.

I have not used the Hyperion drivers, only the ones that come with XP
SP2. I have only used the card with XP SP2. I do not think it is related
to the AGP drivers.

>
> Now, a lot of people say it can be related with the power supply, such
> instabilities, but I am inclined to believe it would then also appear
> during gameplay where the card is stressed highest, but since the
> performance is then rock solid I don't believe that's an issue.
> Admittedly my supply is probably not amongst the best (don't even know
> what it is to be honest), so I am wondering if you perhaps ruled out
> this option yourself? It might be that the window resizes put quite some
> strain on AGP which the games don't to that extent, and that this is
> what is causing probs.
>

I have an Antec sonata case with an Antec 380W PSU; should be more than
sufficient. Never saw anything like this until I flashed the card into
an 9800xt.

It could be an AGP voltage problem; I have seen something about that
being a potential problem. However, I can't adjust the AGP voltage on
the A7V266-E motherboard.

Since you have found a consistent way to crash your bord, I would
suggest that you report the problem to ati tech support. I'd be very
interested in any feedback you get...

Knut
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 2:16:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Gregor Veble" <gregor.veble@uni-mb.si> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:coi87r$34l$1@planja.arnes.si...
> Hello!
>
> I recently upgraded to a stock 9600XT myself. I am having exact same
> symptoms with my machine, where 3D performance is rock stable and there
> occur VPU recoveries every once in a while in 2D, MS Word or iExplorer
> being the worst (but not only) offenders. The card isn't overclocked or
> modded in any way, and no matter which drivers are used the problem
> seems to remain.

I have the same issue..
In my case the card is a Gecube 9800 Pro 128 MB, and it happens as depicted
in Knut Nielsen's 04/12 message.
3d behaviour is rock solid, while in 2d normal use i experience random vpu
recover messages; i tried lowering agp speed from 8x to 4x, and disabling
fast write, but it was pointless. Never tried to play with agp voltage
settings, but i think it's already set up to 1.5v (think lowering would
help?).

Crashes happen mostly when moving around windows, scrolling big sidebars
(i.e. a sidebar of a window full of objects), browsing file and mail folders
(indeed, i experience crashes either while using outlook).


> Unfortunately I didn't manage to resolve the issue myself, but reading
> your post I do believe the problem lies with the mainboard, as mine is
> the Asus A7V266-C so it's not that far removed from yours (XP1800+,
> 768MB). I hope some other people who may have similar problems may write
> in to determine if that is indeed the source of the problem.


It's not the mobo model, just because i don't have the A7V266-C, but may be
the manufacturer (Asus).
Chipsets from these 2 boards are deeply different (i think, checking asus
web table).
Initially i thought of a faulty card, but after reading your messages, that
showed an extremely similal behaviour, are making me hope it's just a dirver
issue.

I forgot to say i use ati original catalyst ver 4.11, while i'm not using
SP2, but i think i will format and install, just to give it a try.
Maybe non-original drivers would help, otherwise i could try with Gecube's,
but i think they're just ati's remarked.

Hope that someone, from ati or asus, would make available a fix, just
because it's starting to piss me off.

If needed i could run some tests, to check if we can reproduce similar
behaviour of our machines, and shrink the range of possible causes.

Bye,
larss

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 2:54:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

nusit wrote:
>
> I have the same issue..
> In my case the card is a Gecube 9800 Pro 128 MB, and it happens as depicted
> in Knut Nielsen's 04/12 message.
> 3d behaviour is rock solid, while in 2d normal use i experience random vpu
> recover messages; i tried lowering agp speed from 8x to 4x, and disabling
> fast write, but it was pointless. Never tried to play with agp voltage
> settings, but i think it's already set up to 1.5v (think lowering would
> help?).
>
Did you mod the card (i.e. flash bios to an XT, like I did)? If not,
have you contacted ATI tech support?


> Crashes happen mostly when moving around windows, scrolling big sidebars
> (i.e. a sidebar of a window full of objects), browsing file and mail folders
> (indeed, i experience crashes either while using outlook).
>
Looks very much like my problem.
>
> It's not the mobo model, just because i don't have the A7V266-C, but may be
> the manufacturer (Asus).
> Chipsets from these 2 boards are deeply different (i think, checking asus
> web table).
> Initially i thought of a faulty card, but after reading your messages, that
> showed an extremely similal behaviour, are making me hope it's just a dirver
> issue.

Which motherboard do you have?

Knut
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 4:23:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello, Knut!
You wrote on Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:54:10 +0100:

KN> Did you mod the card (i.e. flash bios to an XT, like I did)? If not,
KN> have you contacted ATI tech support?

Nope for both.
I was starting sharing the info i gathered and try to solve the problem with
you guys.
If becomes clear that without a direct help from ati or asus we'll
accomplish nothing, il give them a call.

KN> Looks very much like my problem.

I hope it's a driver issue and not a card fault. The fact that our sympthoms
are so similar drives me to the former case.

KN> Which motherboard do you have?

A7N8X-E Asus mobo.

Let me know if you make any progress; alternatively we could join to write
down two lines for the ati's/asus' tech support.

larss
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 10:45:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello, Knut!
You wrote on Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:54:10 +0100:

KN> nusit wrote:

[megasnip]

BTW, have you checked http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3968.html ?

larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
results.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 11:15:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

larss wrote:

>
> BTW, have you checked http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3968.html ?
>
Yes, I have now :-) Seems like ATI acknowledge there is a problem, but
they don't seem to have a clear idea about what causes it. The solutions
they offer are pretty consistent with other tips and tricks for solving
'general' crashes and problems with ATI's cards. I'll take a look at the
BIOS settings, though, and disabling the AGP Write setting, and do some
tests again.

> larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
> results.
>

Great! Looking forward to your post!


Knut
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 10:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

larss wrote:

> BTW, have you checked http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3968.html ?
>
> larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
> results.
>

Well, I did some tests, too. New 4.12 drivers didn't help (not that I
expected them to). Disabling AGP writes didn't help. BIOS experiments next.

Knut
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 7:17:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Knut Nilsen" <knu-nils@online.nospam> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Knjxd.76379

>> larss, who's making some test to solve the issue and soon will post the
>> results.
>>
>
> Well, I did some tests, too. New 4.12 drivers didn't help (not that I
> expected them to).

I did the same. And accomplished nothing.
Actually i developed the definitive cure, according to some posts and
articles i've read around the net.
The only effective solution (made drop to zero the number of vpu recover
crashes) was COMPLETELY DISABLE hardware acceleration on the 3d panel of the
videocard.
Of course a solution this radical is someway impraticable, because will
force the user to continuely toggle from unaccelerated (for 2d purposes) to
accelerate when 3d gaming.

Unfortunately (or not, depends on the point of view), i had a serious
hardware problem with my Asus motherboard, so i had to make it substitute.
I've chosen to change brand, Abit, also to see if this it's somehow related
to our problem (looking around seems that ati+asus+winxp is the lethal
combination; for sure the combo Ati+winxp is involved, with this
modification i'll be able to isolate the involvement of the motherboard).

This Wednesday i'll put my hands on the new mobo; test sessions will be
resumed shortly after.

bye and, if we don't catch sooner, happy Christmas :) 

larss
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 9:21:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

larss wrote:
> I did the same. And accomplished nothing.
> Actually i developed the definitive cure, according to some posts and
> articles i've read around the net.
> The only effective solution (made drop to zero the number of vpu recover
> crashes) was COMPLETELY DISABLE hardware acceleration on the 3d panel of the
> videocard.
> Of course a solution this radical is someway impraticable, because will
> force the user to continuely toggle from unaccelerated (for 2d purposes) to
> accelerate when 3d gaming.
Absolutely. Haven't tested this, but it doesn't seem unlikely that the
problems go away when you disable accelleration. Funny that the 2D
problem goes away when disabling 3D acceleration...not a viable
workaroung, though.

>
> Unfortunately (or not, depends on the point of view), i had a serious
> hardware problem with my Asus motherboard, so i had to make it substitute.
> I've chosen to change brand, Abit, also to see if this it's somehow related
> to our problem (looking around seems that ati+asus+winxp is the lethal
> combination; for sure the combo Ati+winxp is involved, with this
> modification i'll be able to isolate the involvement of the motherboard).
>
Well, as far as I can see, yours and my motherboard are very different -
mine is an old one, with VIA KT266 chipset, while I believe your
have Nvidia chipset. So there's no reason they should give the same
error. Gregor (further up in this thread), who had a similar problem,
have a very similar motherboard to mine, though. That's why I thought it
was motherboard related at first.

> This Wednesday i'll put my hands on the new mobo; test sessions will be
> resumed shortly after.
>

Well, good luck. I'll be waiting for the report.

> bye and, if we don't catch sooner, happy Christmas :) 
>

Merry Christmas to you, too!

Knut
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 5:30:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello, Knut!
You wrote on Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:21:17 +0100:

KN> Well, good luck. I'll be waiting for the report.

And here we are.
I have good news and bad news.

Good news are that issues mentioned above have completely disappeared. No
more lockups, no restart, no damn VPU Recovers willing to send reports back
to Ati. This, both with 2d and 3d applications, scrolling windows, using
Outlook (i've even tried your "find and replace dialog" trick, and had no
issues). So far i've tried just one 3d app, Deus Ex (i love this game!) and
it's rock solid, while used to crash often before.

Bad news is that i've changed a lot of hards&softs, so i'm unable to exactly
pinpoint which step had been the key one. Now i have this new mobo, Abit AN7
(http://www.abit.com.tw/page/it/motherboard/motherboard_...
that seems to share a lot of components with the Asus i've previously owned,
mainly the nVIDIA2 chipset), with two new PC400 DDR ram sticks; i've
formatted and reinstalled windows XP along with the service pack 2 (that i
didn't before).

Any of these steps could have been the main one, but any of them has pros
and cons: ram could have been faulty, but it's strange that has also appened
to you; mobo has the same chipset of the old one, so buying it intentionally
could have no effects (other than spending money for nothing). On the
software side, you could try a fresh format with immediate installation of
the sp2.

If you could try your card on another mobo (can't you borrow it from
somebody?) we could narrow the range of causes.

larss

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Anonymous
January 3, 2005 1:01:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

larss wrote:
>
> Bad news is that i've changed a lot of hards&softs, so i'm unable to exactly
> pinpoint which step had been the key one. Now i have this new mobo, Abit AN7
> (http://www.abit.com.tw/page/it/motherboard/motherboard_...
> that seems to share a lot of components with the Asus i've previously owned,
> mainly the nVIDIA2 chipset), with two new PC400 DDR ram sticks; i've
> formatted and reinstalled windows XP along with the service pack 2 (that i
> didn't before).

Good to see that it has worked! I did some testing myself, and I am
pretty sure it's a RAM issue. I changed my RAM setting to
'overconservative' (i.e. disabled SPD and set RAM timings a bit
_slower_), and guess what - the problems went away. To be honest, I'm
not sure if SPD works correctly on my motherboard; I can't get SPD
values out of any kind of diagnostics software, only in the BIOS, and
that tends to vary (!). Gonna get some new, better RAM and see if that
improves things. If not, then a new motherboard, like you did.

>
> Any of these steps could have been the main one, but any of them has pros
> and cons: ram could have been faulty, but it's strange that has also appened
> to you; mobo has the same chipset of the old one, so buying it intentionally
> could have no effects (other than spending money for nothing). On the
> software side, you could try a fresh format with immediate installation of
> the sp2.
>

Well, at first I thought it was the VIA chipset, seeing that there was
another guy with the same problem and the same chipset, but then you
came along and destroyed that with your nvidia motherboard :-) I'm
pretty confident it has to do with RAM timings. Funny, though, that my
3D apps, including Half-Life 2 and Doom3, have been rock solid all the
time, the only problem I had was the 2D issue.

Now, I have another problem, which happened at the same time as this was
resolved - after the last Half-Life 2 patch, HL2 crashes on me.... Never
had the famous 'stutter' problem until I got the 'stutter problem
fix'.... :-P But that's another story, I guess.

Knut
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 2:18:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello!

Just revisited this thread after a while... indeed, I can report the
same results, setting RAM to slightly more conservative settings indeed
seemed to stabilize the system, minimizing and maximizing the replace
window in Word now does not bring the driver to a halt. It seems the ATi
drivers must utilize some more powerful functions than nVidia ones as I
had a GF Ti4200 card before and it gave me no such issues on the same
system.

Thank you for your research, it has really been helpful, perhaps
something for ATi to add to their knowledge base :) 

-Gregor


Knut Nilsen wrote:
> larss wrote:
>
>>
>> Bad news is that i've changed a lot of hards&softs, so i'm unable to
>> exactly pinpoint which step had been the key one. Now i have this new
>> mobo, Abit AN7
>> (http://www.abit.com.tw/page/it/motherboard/motherboard_...
>> that seems to share a lot of components with the Asus i've previously
>> owned, mainly the nVIDIA2 chipset), with two new PC400 DDR ram sticks;
>> i've formatted and reinstalled windows XP along with the service pack
>> 2 (that i didn't before).
>
>
> Good to see that it has worked! I did some testing myself, and I am
> pretty sure it's a RAM issue. I changed my RAM setting to
> 'overconservative' (i.e. disabled SPD and set RAM timings a bit
> _slower_), and guess what - the problems went away. To be honest, I'm
> not sure if SPD works correctly on my motherboard; I can't get SPD
> values out of any kind of diagnostics software, only in the BIOS, and
> that tends to vary (!). Gonna get some new, better RAM and see if that
> improves things. If not, then a new motherboard, like you did.
>
>>
>> Any of these steps could have been the main one, but any of them has
>> pros and cons: ram could have been faulty, but it's strange that has
>> also appened to you; mobo has the same chipset of the old one, so
>> buying it intentionally could have no effects (other than spending
>> money for nothing). On the software side, you could try a fresh format
>> with immediate installation of the sp2.
>>
>
> Well, at first I thought it was the VIA chipset, seeing that there was
> another guy with the same problem and the same chipset, but then you
> came along and destroyed that with your nvidia motherboard :-) I'm
> pretty confident it has to do with RAM timings. Funny, though, that my
> 3D apps, including Half-Life 2 and Doom3, have been rock solid all the
> time, the only problem I had was the 2D issue.
>
> Now, I have another problem, which happened at the same time as this was
> resolved - after the last Half-Life 2 patch, HL2 crashes on me.... Never
> had the famous 'stutter' problem until I got the 'stutter problem
> fix'.... :-P But that's another story, I guess.
>
> Knut
Anonymous
January 4, 2005 1:56:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Hello, Knut!
You wrote on Sun, 02 Jan 2005 22:01:02 +0100:

KN> I can't get SPD values out of any kind of diagnostics software, only in
KN> the BIOS, and that tends to vary (!).

Ta-na-na-na-nanna.....Ghostbusters!

KN> Gonna get some new, better RAM and see if that improves things. If
KN> not, then a new motherboard, like you did.

Actually, i didn't try to bungle with memory settings just because, in the
old Asus bios, i had this global "conservative" feature, and i thought was
pointless to go lower with timings.

KN> Now, I have another problem, which happened at the same time as this
KN> was resolved - after the last Half-Life 2 patch, HL2 crashes on me....
KN> Never had the famous 'stutter' problem until I got the 'stutter problem
KN> fix'.... :-P But that's another story, I guess.

Sorry, i still didn't have the chance to lay my hands on HL2.
As soon as i will, we'll be able to regroup the team to solve this new
issue; until then, bye!

larss
!