Hardcore gamer is little upset.

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully take
advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express video
cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the case.



If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best performance at
this moment in time from your video card, you will go for an AGP slot video
card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see that the latest ASUS
motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore gamer "motherboard"
doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed PCI-Express video card is
not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in performance. I don't get
it...!?!



The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?



I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components as
available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard release
(A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little upset.

 

[Guest]

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"Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com>

> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components
> as available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard
> release (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little
> upset.

Simple answer: Don't buy asus!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:32us7cF3qpdllU1@individual.net...
> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
> slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
> advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
> now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully
> take advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express
> video cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the
> case.
>
>
>
> If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best performance
> at this moment in time from your video card, you will go for an AGP slot
> video card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see that the latest
> ASUS motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore gamer
> "motherboard" doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed PCI-Express
> video card is not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in performance. I
> don't get it...!?!
>
>
>
> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
> card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
> PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?
>
>
>
> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components
> as available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard
> release (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little
> upset.
>

Oh boy. I have been through these PCI-Express / AGP wars before. Get ready
for some hot debates.

Personally, I agree with you. I just bought an Athlon 64 machine with 8x AGP
earlier this year, and hope to at least get one video card upgrade in the
future, like say, about a year or so from now. Considering I have an X800 XT
PE that might be a tough performance to follow, but I'm sure it'll be there
in a year. To me, since 99% of the consumer PC's, which of course includes
gamers, have AGP in them right now, that is one hell of a customer base.
Even early adopters like myself won't be so ready to throw out their mobo,
memory, and processor just to get a future video card in PCI-express. I hope
nVidia and ATI see the light, and at least support AGP with their high-end
cards for at least another year or so until PCI-Express becomes more
commonplace.

 

[Andrew]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:26:32 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
<Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:

>The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
>slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
>advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
>now.

So how do you do SLI with AGP?
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

 

[Andrew]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:19:34 -0500, "Gareee©"
<gareeeNospam@charter.net> wrote:

>Simple answer: Don't buy asus!

Twat, *plonk*.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Ryan Atici left a note on my windscreen which said:

> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
> card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
> PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?

As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.

With regard to that board in particular - that's Asus' SLI board. Don't
expect any SLI motherboard to cater for AGP cards because nVidia's SLI
require PCI-E.
--
Stoneskin

[Insert sig text here]

 

[BillL]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Stoneskin" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c34a2f350611721989a5e@news.individual.net...
> Ryan Atici left a note on my windscreen which said:
>
>> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
>> card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
>> PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?
>
> As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.
>
> With regard to that board in particular - that's Asus' SLI board. Don't
> expect any SLI motherboard to cater for AGP cards because nVidia's SLI
> require PCI-E.
> --
> Stoneskin
>
> [Insert sig text here]

I guess it depends on future upgarde, if any, options?

At the moment I'm using a 9700 on a nforce2 mobo & XP2800+. In March I aim
to upgrade to a AMD64 s939 mobo why should I not go the PCI-E route (not
necessarily SLI though!)?

On the other paw if I had a current s754 / s939 board with a top of the line
AGP card I probably would hang on for a bit.

BillL

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

> Simple answer: Don't buy asus!

That's not the solution as all of the motherboard manufacturers are
following the ASUS footsteps.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

> As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.

Is that why PCI-Express video cards have to be paired to compete against 1
single high-end AGP video card?

 

[Andrew]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:46:03 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
<Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:

>> As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.
>
>Is that why PCI-Express video cards have to be paired to compete against 1
>single high-end AGP video card?

You really haven't a got clue do you. SLI enables much faster
performance than one card alone can do. A single cards performance is
down to the chipset, not the bus.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Exaclty -

If you put Ferrari tires, on a Hyundia , it will perform JUST like a Hyundia


"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:77gns0hoiv6gec9l3mr19ifthp8v5g0fsb@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:46:03 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
> <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>>> As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.
>>
>>Is that why PCI-Express video cards have to be paired to compete against 1
>>single high-end AGP video card?
>
> You really haven't a got clue do you. SLI enables much faster
> performance than one card alone can do. A single cards performance is
> down to the chipset, not the bus.
> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Reread your reviews. Two PCIe 6600GT cards are comparable to one AGP 6800GT
card. However, a PCIe 6800GT is just as fast as a AGP 6800GT.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:331e7fF3r2t8lU1@individual.net...
>
>
> > As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.
>
> Is that why PCI-Express video cards have to be paired to compete against 1
> single high-end AGP video card?
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:26:32 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
<Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:

>The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
>slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
>advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
>now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully take
>advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express video
>cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the case.
>

Please very carefully read the following article:-

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2300

Smart people are doing $$-smart things with this new technology
<<right now>>............and this will not be the last word in
tweaking the virtues of PCI-Express. AGP will go the way of the
dodo, but it will take some time...there is still lots of money to be
made with performance upgrades of existing systems.

PCI-Express technically has similar flexibility to the original PCI,
but far greater bandwidth. The forced limitation of a single AGP-
slot has vanished (if the MB/chipset manufacturers provide
the multiple-slot hooks for PCI-express ).

( Rest of original posting deleted.............. )

John Lewis

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Ryan Atici wrote:
> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video
> card slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer
> any advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video
> cards for now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new
> technology will fully take advantage of the new PCI-Express video
> card and make the PCI-Express video cards superior over AGP video
> cards, but for now, that's not the case.

Fine.

> If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best
> performance at this moment in time from your video card, you will go
> for an AGP slot video card.

Why? A PCI-Express X800 will perform the same as an AGP X800. It's not
really about the bus that it's attached to.

> Having said all that, I am disappointed
> to see that the latest ASUS motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be
> a hardcore gamer "motherboard" doesn't have an AGP video card slot
> when indeed PCI-Express video card is not yet as good as an AGP slot
> video card in performance. I don't get it...!?!

Of course PCI-Express cards are "as good" as AGP.

> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP
> video card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when
> indeed PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in
> performance?

No, not really.

I would like to see all parallel busses gone from PCs, with serial buses
taking over everything. The more aggressively this is pushed, the better.

PCI and AGP SHOULD be replaced by PCI-Express.
PATA should be replaced with SATA.
parallel ports should be replaced by USB (or whatever).

They are all good things.

> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best
> components as available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS
> motherboard release (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video
> card, I am little upset.

So buy a PCI-Express card.

Or buy a board that has AGP.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:26:32 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
> <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>>The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
>>slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
>>advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
>>now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully
>>take advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express
>>video cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the
>>case.
>>
>
> Please very carefully read the following article:-
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2300
>
> Smart people are doing $$-smart things with this new technology
> <<right now>>............and this will not be the last word in
> tweaking the virtues of PCI-Express. AGP will go the way of the
> dodo, but it will take some time...there is still lots of money to be
> made with performance upgrades of existing systems.

That "$$-smart thing" doesn't impress me much. Be interesting to see how it
works in the real world.
>
> PCI-Express technically has similar flexibility to the original PCI,
> but far greater bandwidth.

So does PCI-X and it doesn't sacrifice backwards-compatibility to get it.

> The forced limitation of a single AGP-
> slot has vanished (if the MB/chipset manufacturers provide
> the multiple-slot hooks for PCI-express ).

> ( Rest of original posting deleted.............. )
>
> John Lewis

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Ben Pope wrote:

> Ryan Atici wrote:
>> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video
>> card slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer
>> any advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video
>> cards for now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new
>> technology will fully take advantage of the new PCI-Express video
>> card and make the PCI-Express video cards superior over AGP video
>> cards, but for now, that's not the case.
>
> Fine.
>
>> If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best
>> performance at this moment in time from your video card, you will go
>> for an AGP slot video card.
>
> Why? A PCI-Express X800 will perform the same as an AGP X800. It's not
> really about the bus that it's attached to.
>
>> Having said all that, I am disappointed
>> to see that the latest ASUS motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be
>> a hardcore gamer "motherboard" doesn't have an AGP video card slot
>> when indeed PCI-Express video card is not yet as good as an AGP slot
>> video card in performance. I don't get it...!?!
>
> Of course PCI-Express cards are "as good" as AGP.
>
>> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP
>> video card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when
>> indeed PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in
>> performance?
>
> No, not really.
>
> I would like to see all parallel busses gone from PCs, with serial buses
> taking over everything. The more aggressively this is pushed, the better.
>
> PCI and AGP SHOULD be replaced by PCI-Express.
> PATA should be replaced with SATA.
> parallel ports should be replaced by USB (or whatever).
>
> They are all good things.

This smacks of theology. Parallel is good, serial is good. They are good
for different things though. In fact PCI Express is parallel in a sense.
x16 means 16 separate wire pairs. They've just found a way to loosen up
the timing a little by adding complexity.
>
>> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best
>> components as available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS
>> motherboard release (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video
>> card, I am little upset.
>
> So buy a PCI-Express card.
>
> Or buy a board that has AGP.
>
> Ben

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 

[minotaur]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Andrew wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:19:34 -0500, "Gareee©"
> <gareeeNospam@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Simple answer: Don't buy asus!
>
>
> Twat, *plonk*.

Then buy what? no 6800GT or Ultra cards are available to purchase
anywhere for PCI Express, nor is the X800XT PE.
Good luck actualy buying one, the closest you shall get to one is in a
review.

 

[minotaur]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Andrew wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:26:32 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
> <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
>>slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
>>advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
>>now.
>
>
> So how do you do SLI with AGP?

Put all of the chips on one card. Thats how 3DFX's Voodoo's GPU
structure was, multiple cores remember?
The more cores, the higher model your Voodoo card was etc..

 

[minotaur]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Sept1967 wrote:
> Exaclty -
>
> If you put Ferrari tires, on a Hyundia , it will perform JUST like a Hyundia
>
>
> "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
> news:77gns0hoiv6gec9l3mr19ifthp8v5g0fsb@4ax.com...
>
>>On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:46:03 -0500, "Ryan Atici"
>><Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>As far as I was aware PCI-E isn't any less performance over AGP.
>>>
>>>Is that why PCI-Express video cards have to be paired to compete against 1
>>>single high-end AGP video card?
>>
>>You really haven't a got clue do you. SLI enables much faster
>>performance than one card alone can do. A single cards performance is
>>down to the chipset, not the bus.
>>--
>>Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
>>Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
>>please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
>>Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
>
>
>

Stuff SLI, reduce the latency and put multiple GPU's on the one card.
Worked well for 3DFX! and they only had to produce one GPU type because
of that.