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"Crippled" 9700pro

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Anonymous
April 3, 2005 4:01:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
from me.)

I've tried overclocking using ATI TrayTools and can barely get it to
310mhz with noticeble artifacting even in games. Even 300 Mhz
generates artifacts in the ATI Tools render screen.

Memory chips are 3.3ns Samsung parts which should be good to 300mhz by
spec and I'd expect a little more cause Samsung makes good parts. So
I wonder... could timings be intentionaly set up bad on this board in
order to cripple it?

What timings should I look to play with (in ATITools) to see if I can
get memory clock a little higher?

TIA...

More about : crippled 9700pro

April 3, 2005 8:09:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
news:ss3051drmhc2u5kljekf4jbsagk837kt2a@4ax.com...
>I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
> set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
> their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
> should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
> considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
> from me.)

Are you sure it's a 9800 Pro and not a 256bit 9800 SE with 4 pipelines?
Factory spec for the 4 pipeline 256bit 9800SE is 280Mhz memory, 325Mhz core.
The core on yours should be 380Mhz for a true 9800 Pro. What does Everest
say about the pipelines and speeds?
http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 8:09:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

ATITools reports it has 8 pipe's, 128Mb of 256 bit memory. Core is an
R300 clocked (default) at 325 Mhz. I can easily get 340Mhz with lite
artifacting on the core with stock (crummy) cooling. I replaced stock
cooler with a crystal orb and removed the spacer to allow full-core
contact for better cooling (god that HS gets hot though). I suppose I
could invest in an ArcticSilencer 1 but I don't know if it would help
enough for the cost.

ATITools calls it a 9700, but nothing else does and it's core is
clocked correct for a 9700pro. I have no idea whether, or how,
ATITools differentiates a 9700 from a 9700pro. I'd admit it could
actually be an "overclocked 9700".

But what's the diff?? overclocked 9700?? crippled 9700pro?? I still
would like to know if there are memory timings that could help me
exploit the capability of the 3.3ns Samsung memory.

And nothing even suggests a 9800, se, pro, or otherwise (isn't that an
R350 core??)

BuddyWh

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:09:01 GMT, "Augustus" <augustus@wrtt.net>
wrote:

>
>"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
>news:ss3051drmhc2u5kljekf4jbsagk837kt2a@4ax.com...
>>I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
>> set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
>> their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
>> should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
>> considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
>> from me.)
>
>Are you sure it's a 9800 Pro and not a 256bit 9800 SE with 4 pipelines?
>Factory spec for the 4 pipeline 256bit 9800SE is 280Mhz memory, 325Mhz core.
>The core on yours should be 380Mhz for a true 9800 Pro. What does Everest
>say about the pipelines and speeds?
>http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm
>
Related resources
April 3, 2005 8:12:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Augustus" <augustus@wrtt.net> wrote in message
news:xyU3e.164653$fc4.9268@edtnps89...
>
> "BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
> news:ss3051drmhc2u5kljekf4jbsagk837kt2a@4ax.com...
>>I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
>> set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
>> their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
>> should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
>> considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
>> from me.)

I forgot to point out that a 9800 Pro is never 310Mhz memory, but 340Mhz.
The straight non-pro 9800 is 310Mhz memory.
April 3, 2005 8:27:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
news:ss3051drmhc2u5kljekf4jbsagk837kt2a@4ax.com...
>I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
> set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
> their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
> should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
> considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
> from me.)

Dell used to ship a 9700TX card, which had 265/265 clockings if memory
serves me correctly. Basically just and underclocked straight 9700. I'm not
sure if they did the same trick with the 9700 Pro. You can try ramsinks on
the memory chips an see if that helps. Direct airflow over the card when you
do this should also help.
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:20:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Augustus" <augustus@wrtt.net> wrote in message
news:ZBU3e.164739$fc4.144697@edtnps89...
>
> "Augustus" <augustus@wrtt.net> wrote in message
> news:xyU3e.164653$fc4.9268@edtnps89...
> >
> > "BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
> > news:ss3051drmhc2u5kljekf4jbsagk837kt2a@4ax.com...
> >>I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
> >> set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
> >> their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
> >> should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
> >> considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
> >> from me.)
>
> I forgot to point out that a 9800 Pro is never 310Mhz memory, but 340Mhz.
> The straight non-pro 9800 is 310Mhz memory.

Which is all very interesting but the OP was asking about a 9700pro

Tony
April 3, 2005 9:20:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

non-pro 9800 is 310Mhz memory.
>
> Which is all very interesting but the OP was asking about a 9700pro
>
> Tony

Oops...sorry. For some reason my brain read and re-read 9800 Pro in his
post.
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:50:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
news:ss3051drmhc2u5kljekf4jbsagk837kt2a@4ax.com...
> I just bought a OEM-pack generic 9700pro off E-Bay. I found after
> set-up it is "crippled". Probably the kind of thing Dell would put in
> their systems... the memory is clocked at 279mhz vs 310mhz a pro
> should be. (vendor woulda taken it back, but price was OK even
> considering it's a cripple so I kept it. He didn't get a good review
> from me.)
>
> I've tried overclocking using ATI TrayTools and can barely get it to
> 310mhz with noticeble artifacting even in games. Even 300 Mhz
> generates artifacts in the ATI Tools render screen.
>
> Memory chips are 3.3ns Samsung parts which should be good to 300mhz by
> spec and I'd expect a little more cause Samsung makes good parts. So
> I wonder... could timings be intentionaly set up bad on this board in
> order to cripple it?
>
> What timings should I look to play with (in ATITools) to see if I can
> get memory clock a little higher?

You could try flashing a different bios. The "mufu" 9700 pro bios has
allowed some people to improve overclocking. The fly973000.bin file
available here is a version that is modified to 300/300 which is pretty
close to your current speeds. Choose NTSC or PAL version according to your
needs.

http://paddy007uk.freeservers.com/VGAbios/9700_flash_gu...

Tony
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:50:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:50:06 +0100, "TMack"
<REMOVETHECAPStonymackin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>You could try flashing a different bios. The "mufu" 9700 pro bios has
>allowed some people to improve overclocking. The fly973000.bin file
>available here is a version that is modified to 300/300 which is pretty
>close to your current speeds. Choose NTSC or PAL version according to your
>needs.

Thanks... but I've tried this too! My card uses a serial flash-rom
that has been hardware locked. I searched for the device mfr's part
spec... I THINK the lock can be cleared by lifting one pin of the
flash-rom and tieing it to Vdd.

Don't know this for sure, though, and I'm afraid to try until I do!
Until then, I'd like to stick with changing timing through the driver
(ATITools).

BuddyW
April 4, 2005 12:34:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
news:n28051larlg4vuvo4vopffj5fingrnq5o3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:50:06 +0100, "TMack"
> <REMOVETHECAPStonymackin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>You could try flashing a different bios. The "mufu" 9700 pro bios has
>>allowed some people to improve overclocking. The fly973000.bin file
>>available here is a version that is modified to 300/300 which is pretty
>>close to your current speeds. Choose NTSC or PAL version according to
>>your
>>needs.
>
> Thanks... but I've tried this too! My card uses a serial flash-rom
> that has been hardware locked. I searched for the device mfr's part
> spec... I THINK the lock can be cleared by lifting one pin of the
> flash-rom and tieing it to Vdd.
>
> Don't know this for sure, though, and I'm afraid to try until I do!
> Until then, I'd like to stick with changing timing through the driver
> (ATITools).
>
> BuddyW

are you sure its not just a standard 9700 - a non pro in other words. I have
a 9700 and the standard clock speeds are 275/270. oddly enough drivers
identify my card as a 9700pro but its not - definitely a 9700. maybe the
seller saw that in the drivers and advertised it as a Pro without checking
the actual speeds. its still a decent card - same pipelines and memory
bandwidth as a Pro just clocked slower.
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 12:34:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:34:46 GMT, "Sleepy" <nospam@here.com> wrote:

>are you sure its not just a standard 9700 - a non pro in other words. I have
>a 9700 and the standard clock speeds are 275/270. oddly enough drivers

The core is clocked at 325 in BIOS, which is 9700pro. I suppose it
could be an overclocked 9700 but it would have to have been done at
the factory since the BIOS is hardware locked.

BuddyWh
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:18:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:03:54 -0400, BuddyWh <root@localhost.> wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:50:06 +0100, "TMack"
><REMOVETHECAPStonymackin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>>You could try flashing a different bios. The "mufu" 9700 pro bios has
>>allowed some people to improve overclocking. The fly973000.bin file
>>available here is a version that is modified to 300/300 which is pretty
>>close to your current speeds. Choose NTSC or PAL version according to your
>>needs.

>Thanks... but I've tried this too! My card uses a serial flash-rom
>that has been hardware locked. I searched for the device mfr's part
>spec... I THINK the lock can be cleared by lifting one pin of the
>flash-rom and tieing it to Vdd.

>Don't know this for sure, though, and I'm afraid to try until I do!
>Until then, I'd like to stick with changing timing through the driver
>(ATITools).

How many open pipes you got ?
AIDa32 or whatever will tell you !

If it's a ' closed pipe ' card the Omega's will open the others, it's
a quick-n-dirty-fix

- no BIOS flash required
- install over old drivers works
- no need to ' clean out '
- ' roll back [ WinXP ] works
- try it

- if it [ Omega's ] does'nt offer you the option, your goosed !

>BuddyW

¸ô¶ó
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:18:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 21:18:27 GMT, borolad@myowseintheboro.org wrote:

>How many open pipes you got ?
>AIDa32 or whatever will tell you !

All 8 pipes are enabled... ATI Tray Tools HW info tool also tells you.

BuddyWh
April 4, 2005 3:00:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
news:5os051pqvcp1p7e238lck00u1h5cdcm749@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:34:46 GMT, "Sleepy" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
>
>>are you sure its not just a standard 9700 - a non pro in other words. I
>>have
>>a 9700 and the standard clock speeds are 275/270. oddly enough drivers
>
> The core is clocked at 325 in BIOS, which is 9700pro. I suppose it
> could be an overclocked 9700 but it would have to have been done at
> the factory since the BIOS is hardware locked.
>
> BuddyWh

just checked one of your earlier post - you indicate youre oc
with ATI Tray Tools so youre running it at 325/310 ? Then
theres no real problem ? I would check your memory is good
for that speed though - if they put on slow memory and you clock
it too high then you could kill your card slowly.
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 11:46:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:00:03 GMT, "Sleepy" <nospam@here.com> wrote:

>
>"BuddyWh" <root@localhost.> wrote in message
>news:5os051pqvcp1p7e238lck00u1h5cdcm749@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:34:46 GMT, "Sleepy" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
>>
>>>are you sure its not just a standard 9700 - a non pro in other words. I
>>>have
>>>a 9700 and the standard clock speeds are 275/270. oddly enough drivers
>>
>> The core is clocked at 325 in BIOS, which is 9700pro. I suppose it
>> could be an overclocked 9700 but it would have to have been done at
>> the factory since the BIOS is hardware locked.
>>
>> BuddyWh
>
>just checked one of your earlier post - you indicate youre oc
>with ATI Tray Tools so youre running it at 325/310 ? Then
>theres no real problem ? I would check your memory is good
>for that speed though - if they put on slow memory and you clock
>it too high then you could kill your card slowly.
>

True, it does 325/310 but with obvious artifacts. It does 300 but
there are artifacts in the ATI Tray Tools' render screen. It is
perfect at no better than about 290-295 or so.

The memory is 3.3ns Samsung. Samsung's data sheet for these parts
indicate a 300Mhz operating speed. That suggests there may be a
problem with the default BIOS timings, hence my desire to fiddle with
them using ATI Tray Tools.

I don't suppose I have any more of a problem than any one else trying
to squeeze the last FPS out of their system.

BuddyWh
!