Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:57:57 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
*plonk*
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
> distributor). How can you get those two confused?

And do you have any comment to make on the article itself? (Other than
the Altavista translation is a bugger to read? "Necessityness"!)

I think it's a fair claim - the retail box should say clearly that the
game requires online registration for all modes of play, including
single-player, because this is a new concept and the public won't
necessarily be aware of it.

For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
because people need to be aware of the important differences it
introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.

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"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:193m011cfu8msdq2sq5iv2lq28fu6k4oia@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:57:57 +0000, sayNO2steam
> <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
> you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
> *plonk*

What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
interesting information in those links.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:0gfm01trtm6ia3d0938v4hn8g3lifjtcrh@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:58:01 GMT, "Jim Vieira"
> <whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote:
>
>>What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
>>centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
>>made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
>>interesting information in those links.
>
> It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
> statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
> Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
> facts he is and should just STFU.
> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Valve publish it through Steam.

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sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:

> The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
> (in german)
> http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107 [...] 0,ht4u.php
> (german translated)
> http://babelfish.altavista.com/bab [...] l=http%3A%
> 2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_e
> n

Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that publishers
will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting information like
this on any new games in that category

Gandalf Parker

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Gandalf Parker wrote:
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:
>
>
>>The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
>>(in german)
>>http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
>>(german translated)
>>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%
>>2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_e
>>n
>
>
> Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that publishers
> will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting information like
> this on any new games in that category

Not only that. The Consumer Protection Association explicitly demands
that Vivendi and Valve change the setup of their games so that the game,
and the steam account, can be sold to a third party without any penalty.
I don't know if they will be successful, but they have a lot of clout
here in Germany. IIRC, this is the first time this organization has
become active on the video sector. A very good sign.

Werner







>
> Gandalf Parker

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In <110mvi6blcg9gaf@news.supernews.com> "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> writes:


>The Steam fanatics will grab hold of the smallest detail in order to derail
>criticism of their beloved Steam. Valve can do absolutely no wrong, you see.

>Yes Vivendi is the publisher but VALVE is the one that made these draconian
>rules regarding selling Steam-infected games. Can't sell the game without
>paying $10 to Valve? They deserve a lawsuit for that one alone.


I'm pretty sure they don't need a lawsuit as sales for their steam
next game will surely drop. I know lots of people who won't buy any
steam game again (me included). Once bitten ,twice shy.

--
Henrik Schmidt Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel
Institut fuer Informatik +49 (431) 880 75 - 50 Fax or 43 Phone
Olshausenstr. 40 http://www.ks.informatik.uni-kiel.de
24098 Kiel, Germany email: hbs@ks.informatik.uni-kiel.de

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Werner Arend <nefar@arcor.de> wrote in
news:cufqd8$q7f$1@news1.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de:

> Gandalf Parker wrote:
>> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>>The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
>>>(in german)
>>>http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
>>>(german translated)
>>>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A
>>>%
>>>2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_
>>>e n
>>
>>
>> Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that
>> publishers will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting
>> information like this on any new games in that category
>
> Not only that. The Consumer Protection Association explicitly demands
> that Vivendi and Valve change the setup of their games so that the
> game, and the steam account, can be sold to a third party without any
> penalty. I don't know if they will be successful, but they have a lot
> of clout here in Germany. IIRC, this is the first time this
> organization has become active on the video sector. A very good sign.

Im not sure if that will go over. The game yes, in fact I think that has
already been fought a few times. But there are many non-computer accounts
which cannot be resold so I think the legal system will look to those as
a precedent.

In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
them.

Gandalf Parker

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Chadwick wrote:
> Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
>
>>sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>>
>>How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
>>distributor). How can you get those two confused?
>
>
> And do you have any comment to make on the article itself? (Other than
> the Altavista translation is a bugger to read? "Necessityness"!)
>
> I think it's a fair claim - the retail box should say clearly that the
> game requires online registration for all modes of play, including
> single-player, because this is a new concept and the public won't
> necessarily be aware of it.
>
> For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
> because people need to be aware of the important differences it
> introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
>

Agreed on one point Chadwick. Vivendi's box should be clearer that
online authentication is required for single player (and Valve should
relent if they instructed Vivendi on the wording). They should perhaps
also consider giving an idea of how long this might take on 56k dial up
(as many download sites currently do with other files) and warn that
this could be considerably longer when patches also need to be
downloaded. Haven't read the rest - never sell a game - never buy
second hand. No probs whatsoever with Steam. Will buy future Steam games.

--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"

Bertrand Russell

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"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com...
> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
> Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
> the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
> labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling
>

This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although "sayNO2steam",
who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
the publisher is VU Games. VU Games is not Valve which is the developer of
HL2. VU Games is the same old standard publisher that we've been dealing
with for the last several years. This publisher has robbed the developer
of HL2 (Valve) of royalties, and is now being less than honest with single
player customers about setting up and playing HL2 single player component.

In fact, I'm still waiting for a picture posted on the web by difool that
compares the VU Games CEO to Stalin, or Pol Pot, or Josef Mengele...


> the insignificant reference you can find in the bottom of HL2 back
> cover to "internet required" is totally insuficient to describe what
> $team is and does and requires, so this move Germany made is very
> welcome
>
> but also Germany makes reference to shifts in the traditional way
> of selling games that also have to be addressed, like not being able
> to sell it in the 2nd hand market or the fee you must pay valve to
> change cd-key ownership
> Germany looked at much more than the simple "internet required" but
> to the brother picture of that $team is trying to do
>
> we now hope every country in the world will follow Germany path and
> much more investigation will be made to valve and $team, cause we
> won a battle but not the war! we must go on and continue fighting
> cause it ain't over yet
>

The publisher of HL2 is VU Games. They're the ones that are being less
than honest about what's on the HL2 box.

As to the war, it's just a matter of time. One day soon, CD/DVDs will be
setting next to the abacas, slide rule, 8 inch floppy, and the 8-track in a
museum.

<snip>
> ps: a big thanks to olddog that first post this great breaking news
>

No need to thank me. Cause my next pc game is going to be box-free,
gas-free, save the envirnoment, .... which means I'm looking forward to the
next Steam released game.

ps Are you difool? The same person that's called me: stupid, Steam
lover, ignorant, dumb, dumber, dumbest, selfish, uncaring, ....? Cause
there's no need to thank me for pointing out ground breaking news about
flaws in the PUBLISHERs game box.

> --
> test

test complete.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:37ln01t77odv81uk6t76rflvriuk0ksrgs@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:36:05 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although
"sayNO2steam",
> >who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
> >the publisher is VU Games.
>
> Sorry OldDog, this is a fact free thread. I tried to point it out, but
> DiF***wits cronies informed me that mere facts weren't important and
> all that mattered was that FUD is spread far and wide.
> --

"Just the facts, ma'am"

ps leave your opinion on the ground and step away from the car with your
hands in the air.

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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:00:36 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
wrote:


>It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
>statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
>Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
>facts he is and should just STFU.

Vivendi didn't foist Steam upon us dork, Valve did.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:8non01thhf5kerrdjugl146tr24c44lf28@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:40:51 -0800, Chris Pound
> <Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote:
>
>>Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.
>
> Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?</aliens>
> --
Affirmative</newt>

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It seems that all this bad publicity is from newbies to HL. Those of us
who've been on HL, CS and DOD for years (5 years) had our ears to the ground
and KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT.

Sure, Steam was a new and a pain at first but we quickly adapted.

Every negative detail I've read in this NG was exposed PRIOR TO HL2's
RELEASE.

SO, if your sorry ass found it's way here on the NG's you should've already
know what was up. If your sorry ass recieved HL2 for Chistmas... well, I
understand your newbie 'tude.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

OldDog wrote:
> "- - : R A T B o y : - -" <- - : R A T B o y : - -@shovit_dude.com> wrote in
> message news:LkUOd.39786$uA.4379@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
>>It seems that all this bad publicity is from newbies to HL. Those of us
>>who've been on HL, CS and DOD for years (5 years) had our ears to the
>
> ground
>
>>and KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT.
>>
>>Sure, Steam was a new and a pain at first but we quickly adapted.
>>
>>Every negative detail I've read in this NG was exposed PRIOR TO HL2's
>>RELEASE.
>>
>>SO, if your sorry ass found it's way here on the NG's you should've
>
> already
>
>>know what was up. If your sorry ass recieved HL2 for Chistmas... well, I
>>understand your newbie 'tude.
>>
>>
>
>
> This sorry ass got it for Xmas. For some sorry ass reason, my wife thought
> that I would enjoy it. I did the first time thru. For some sorry ass
> reason, I quit about 25% thru my 2nd time.
>

That must be a real sore ass you've got there.

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"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:9tQOd.39702$uA.21861@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>

> This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although
"sayNO2steam",
> who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
> the publisher is VU Games. VU Games is not Valve which is the developer
of
> HL2. VU Games is the same old standard publisher that we've been dealing
> with for the last several years. This publisher has robbed the developer
> of HL2 (Valve) of royalties, and is now being less than honest with single
> player customers about setting up and playing HL2 single player component.

As others have pointed out, Valve is the developer of Steam and it is they
who made it mandatory for retail-boxed copies as well. Vivendi has to make
changes to the box becasue of Valve. Vivendi are opposing Steam only because
it is affecting their share of the profits when the game is sold only
through Steam; basically they're doing the right thing for their own
benefit.

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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:36:05 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com>
wrote:

>
>"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com...
>> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>>
>> this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
>> Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
>> the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
>> labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling
>>
>
>This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although "sayNO2steam",
>who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
>the publisher is VU Games. VU Games is not Valve which is the developer of
>HL2. VU Games is the same old standard publisher that we've been dealing
>with for the last several years. This publisher has robbed the developer
>of HL2 (Valve) of royalties, and is now being less than honest with single
>player customers about setting up and playing HL2 single player component.
>

You need not worry. I suspect that VU will get out of any retail
distribution contract with Valve as fast as they can. You have
conveniently forgotten that Valve/VU litigation is still pending on
Valve's use of Steam as an alternate distribution without VU
approval.

In fact, I shall be very interested in seeing exactly who will
retail-distribute future Valve games. If Valve sticks with
on-line sales only, then they will surely die and their IP/key
technical personnel be cheaply bought out (and the company
disbanded) by a big retail distributor such as EA.

John Lewis

>In fact, I'm still waiting for a picture posted on the web by difool that
>compares the VU Games CEO to Stalin, or Pol Pot, or Josef Mengele...
>
>
>> the insignificant reference you can find in the bottom of HL2 back
>> cover to "internet required" is totally insuficient to describe what
>> $team is and does and requires, so this move Germany made is very
>> welcome
>>
>> but also Germany makes reference to shifts in the traditional way
>> of selling games that also have to be addressed, like not being able
>> to sell it in the 2nd hand market or the fee you must pay valve to
>> change cd-key ownership
>> Germany looked at much more than the simple "internet required" but
>> to the brother picture of that $team is trying to do
>>
>> we now hope every country in the world will follow Germany path and
>> much more investigation will be made to valve and $team, cause we
>> won a battle but not the war! we must go on and continue fighting
>> cause it ain't over yet
>>
>
>The publisher of HL2 is VU Games. They're the ones that are being less
>than honest about what's on the HL2 box.
>
>As to the war, it's just a matter of time. One day soon, CD/DVDs will be
>setting next to the abacas, slide rule, 8 inch floppy, and the 8-track in a
>museum.
>
><snip>
>> ps: a big thanks to olddog that first post this great breaking news
>>
>
>No need to thank me. Cause my next pc game is going to be box-free,
>gas-free, save the envirnoment, .... which means I'm looking forward to the
>next Steam released game.
>
>ps Are you difool? The same person that's called me: stupid, Steam
>lover, ignorant, dumb, dumber, dumbest, selfish, uncaring, ....? Cause
>there's no need to thank me for pointing out ground breaking news about
>flaws in the PUBLISHERs game box.
>
>> --
>> test
>
>test complete.
>
>

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Ceowulf wrote:
> This is true, Valve lost many customers (me also included). Unfortunately
> the money they made on the sales of HL2 will probably keep them going

Well yay for people like me who want to see a HL3 and all the other
stuff in the future.

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"GFree" <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4211374d@yorrell.saard.net...
> Ceowulf wrote:
> > This is true, Valve lost many customers (me also included).
Unfortunately
> > the money they made on the sales of HL2 will probably keep them going
> Well yay for people like me who want to see a HL3 and all the other
> stuff in the future.

I feel for Valve right now the same as I felt for Ion Storm after Deus Exbox
Invisible War was released: wake me when they're dead. And it came true!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

QQalextiQQ@videotron.few.useless.chars.ca (alexti) wrote in
news:Xns95FF1355F8AsfjshTTalextiFJFsdsi@205.237.233.50:

> "Fred At Home" <fredathome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote in
> news:420d223e$0$11122$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
>
>> The should make people take a simple test before allowing them access
>> to the WWW.
> In the years past it was exactly like that You had to write your own
> web browser first, before getting to the WWW (or news client before
> getting to the usenet).

One of my old rants....

It used to be that you had to learn DOS to get to and learn UNIX to get
to and learn Internet. We had some rude people but no stupid ones. Then
Windows created "user friendly" connections and we got "users" who could
only use a computer but knew nothing about it. Then AOL created
foolproof connections for those who couldnt figure out Windows and we
got fools. Then WebTV created idiot-proof connections and it seems to be
doing a great job of it. Now we have Xbox but Ive run out of words.

Gandalf Parker

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
>because people need to be aware of the important differences it
>introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.

Why?
The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
anything.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>> Why?
>> The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
>> anything.
>
>The enforceability of EULAs is unknown until a court rules on it. And
>so far, courts have treated each case on its own merits, so there is no
>definitive answer as to whether they are enforceable or not.

True, there is room for doubt, and the software industry has been
lobbying HARD for several years to get shrinkwrap-licenses/EULA's
accepted.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In article <Xns95F95C1BAA41Bgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:

>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
>the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
>tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
>them.

That is absolutely correct.

What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution? What
guarantees or rights does she possess?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

jeff@work.com (Jeff) wrote in news:cugbh3$jp2$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu:

> In article <Xns95F95C1BAA41Bgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf
> Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You
>>buy the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a
>>CD, tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for
>>all of them.
>
> That is absolutely correct.
>
> What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution?
> What guarantees or rights does she possess?

He owns nothing and gains no rights by it. Thats not really going to be a
problem. If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
the game. All priveleges about the game are spelled out and allowed
seperate.

On a DirectDownload purchase his rights to the game are the same, but he
has no media ownership rights. He gained the program by a "service
contract" and once that action is complete his rights are pretty few.

Gandalf Parker

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"Courageous" <dontwant@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ilpn01hknd24flqfp4r3d3r2nijfah01no@4ax.com...
>
>>He owns nothing and gains no rights by it. Thats not really going to be a
>>problem. If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
>>the game.
>
> I'm sorry. Did UCITA or some other simlar law pass? Until they do,
> and even if they do, I'll regard the doctrine of first sale
> in high esteem, and hold to certain English Common Law principles such
> as "a meeting of the minds". Ethically, a license tossed into a box
> has as much meaning to me as toilet paper.
>
> Any reply whatsoever to this message indicates your agreement to sign
> over all future equity in your house to me.
>
> *woof*
>
> C//
>

But..

D'OH