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Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

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Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:57:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling

the insignificant reference you can find in the bottom of HL2 back
cover to "internet required" is totally insuficient to describe what
$team is and does and requires, so this move Germany made is very
welcome

but also Germany makes reference to shifts in the traditional way
of selling games that also have to be addressed, like not being able
to sell it in the 2nd hand market or the fee you must pay valve to
change cd-key ownership
Germany looked at much more than the simple "internet required" but
to the brother picture of that $team is trying to do

we now hope every country in the world will follow Germany path and
much more investigation will be made to valve and $team, cause we
won a battle but not the war! we must go on and continue fighting
cause it ain't over yet

links follow about the news

Is the Half-Life 2 EULA illegal?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105

The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
(in german)
http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
(german translated)
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecont...

ps: a big thanks to olddog that first post this great breaking news

--
test

More about : germany makes valve change hl2 box

Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:57:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
> distributor). How can you get those two confused?

And do you have any comment to make on the article itself? (Other than
the Altavista translation is a bugger to read? "Necessityness"!)

I think it's a fair claim - the retail box should say clearly that the
game requires online registration for all modes of play, including
single-player, because this is a new concept and the public won't
necessarily be aware of it.

For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
because people need to be aware of the important differences it
introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:57:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:
>
> >For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
> >because people need to be aware of the important differences it
> >introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
>
> Why?
> The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
> anything.

The enforceability of EULAs is unknown until a court rules on it. And
so far, courts have treated each case on its own merits, so there is no
definitive answer as to whether they are enforceable or not. Arguably,
you have "digitally signed" or knowingly indicated your agreement when
you installed the game. Whether or not it is enforceable, or is just a
readme, it claims some authority in how you use the product, and
therefore should be accessible to the user.
Related resources
February 10, 2005 10:31:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:57:57 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
*plonk*
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 1:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:

<snip>
> Is the Half-Life 2 EULA illegal?
> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105
>
> The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
> (in german)
> http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
> (german translated)
> http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecont...

I thought the point was the EULA was only in English? It also sounds
like the box just has to say the game is transferable only if you sell
your user account back....

When does the Gothic 2 expansion hit American shores...that is the
question ;-)
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 1:19:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:

> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
distributor). How can you get those two confused?
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 1:49:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2steam" wrote

> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
> Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
> the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
> labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling
>
So instead of forcing the shops to follow the consumer rights which in many
countries forces the shop a money back garantie if the sold item is
deffective
The go for the publisher ?

The inquirer describes that you can deliver back the game and get your money
back whether the package is broken or not - this is also the case in DK -
and probably other countries

An action like this will probably be the most effective above all

Just my two cents

- Peter
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 1:58:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:193m011cfu8msdq2sq5iv2lq28fu6k4oia@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:57:57 +0000, sayNO2steam
> <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
> you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
> *plonk*

What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
interesting information in those links.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 1:58:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Jim Vieira" <whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote in message
news:Z6HOd.15226$0h5.14299@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> > >Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
> > Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
> > you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
> > *plonk*
> What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
> centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
> made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
> interesting information in those links.

The Steam fanatics will grab hold of the smallest detail in order to derail
criticism of their beloved Steam. Valve can do absolutely no wrong, you see.

Yes Vivendi is the publisher but VALVE is the one that made these draconian
rules regarding selling Steam-infected games. Can't sell the game without
paying $10 to Valve? They deserve a lawsuit for that one alone.
February 10, 2005 2:00:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:58:01 GMT, "Jim Vieira"
<whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote:

>What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
>centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
>made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
>interesting information in those links.

It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
facts he is and should just STFU.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 2:00:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:0gfm01trtm6ia3d0938v4hn8g3lifjtcrh@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:58:01 GMT, "Jim Vieira"
> <whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote:
>
>>What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
>>centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
>>made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
>>interesting information in those links.
>
> It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
> statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
> Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
> facts he is and should just STFU.
> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Valve publish it through Steam.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 2:28:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
>because people need to be aware of the important differences it
>introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.

Why?
The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
anything.
February 10, 2005 3:02:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:55:53 -0500, "HockeyTownUSA"
<magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote:

>Valve publish it through Steam.

a) They sell and distribute it through Steam.
b) There isn't a box to change the wording on.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 3:07:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>> Why?
>> The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
>> anything.
>
>The enforceability of EULAs is unknown until a court rules on it. And
>so far, courts have treated each case on its own merits, so there is no
>definitive answer as to whether they are enforceable or not.

True, there is room for doubt, and the software industry has been
lobbying HARD for several years to get shrinkwrap-licenses/EULA's
accepted.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 3:57:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:

> The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
> (in german)
> http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
> (german translated)
> http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecont...
> 2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u....
> n

Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that publishers
will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting information like
this on any new games in that category

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 5:36:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

HockeyTownUSA wrote:
>
>
> Valve publish it through Steam.
>
>

Which doesn't come in a box ...
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 5:40:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:31:29 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
wrote:


>Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
>you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
>*plonk*

Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 5:42:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:00:36 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
wrote:


>It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
>statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
>Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
>facts he is and should just STFU.

Vivendi didn't foist Steam upon us dork, Valve did.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 6:11:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Gandalf Parker wrote:
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:
>
>
>>The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
>>(in german)
>>http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
>>(german translated)
>>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecont...
>>2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u....
>>n
>
>
> Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that publishers
> will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting information like
> this on any new games in that category

Not only that. The Consumer Protection Association explicitly demands
that Vivendi and Valve change the setup of their games so that the game,
and the steam account, can be sold to a third party without any penalty.
I don't know if they will be successful, but they have a lot of clout
here in Germany. IIRC, this is the first time this organization has
become active on the video sector. A very good sign.

Werner







>
> Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 6:23:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> Spake Unto All:

>> It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
>> statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
>> Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
>> facts he is and should just STFU.

>Valve publish it through Steam.

In retail boxes? Those sneaky bastards!
February 10, 2005 6:54:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

In <110mvi6blcg9gaf@news.supernews.com> "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> writes:


>The Steam fanatics will grab hold of the smallest detail in order to derail
>criticism of their beloved Steam. Valve can do absolutely no wrong, you see.

>Yes Vivendi is the publisher but VALVE is the one that made these draconian
>rules regarding selling Steam-infected games. Can't sell the game without
>paying $10 to Valve? They deserve a lawsuit for that one alone.


I'm pretty sure they don't need a lawsuit as sales for their steam
next game will surely drop. I know lots of people who won't buy any
steam game again (me included). Once bitten ,twice shy.

--
Henrik Schmidt Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel
Institut fuer Informatik +49 (431) 880 75 - 50 Fax or 43 Phone
Olshausenstr. 40 http://www.ks.informatik.uni-kiel.de
24098 Kiel, Germany email: hbs@ks.informatik.uni-kiel.de
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 8:01:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Werner Arend <nefar@arcor.de> wrote in
news:cufqd8$q7f$1@news1.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de:

> Gandalf Parker wrote:
>> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>>The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
>>>(in german)
>>>http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
>>>(german translated)
>>>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecont...
>>>%
>>>2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u....
>>>e n
>>
>>
>> Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that
>> publishers will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting
>> information like this on any new games in that category
>
> Not only that. The Consumer Protection Association explicitly demands
> that Vivendi and Valve change the setup of their games so that the
> game, and the steam account, can be sold to a third party without any
> penalty. I don't know if they will be successful, but they have a lot
> of clout here in Germany. IIRC, this is the first time this
> organization has become active on the video sector. A very good sign.

Im not sure if that will go over. The game yes, in fact I think that has
already been fought a few times. But there are many non-computer accounts
which cannot be resold so I think the legal system will look to those as
a precedent.

In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
them.

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 9:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:

> $team

Why are you spelling Steam like that? How do Valve make money off Steam
in a way that annoys you? Electronic distribution is an option that some
wish to take and has nothing at all to do with authentication or
wharever silly thing you are all upset about.
February 10, 2005 10:09:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In article <Xns95F95C1BAA41Bgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:

>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
>the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
>tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
>them.

That is absolutely correct.

What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution? What
guarantees or rights does she possess?
February 10, 2005 10:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Chadwick wrote:
> Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
>
>>sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>>
>>How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
>>distributor). How can you get those two confused?
>
>
> And do you have any comment to make on the article itself? (Other than
> the Altavista translation is a bugger to read? "Necessityness"!)
>
> I think it's a fair claim - the retail box should say clearly that the
> game requires online registration for all modes of play, including
> single-player, because this is a new concept and the public won't
> necessarily be aware of it.
>
> For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
> because people need to be aware of the important differences it
> introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
>

Agreed on one point Chadwick. Vivendi's box should be clearer that
online authentication is required for single player (and Valve should
relent if they instructed Vivendi on the wording). They should perhaps
also consider giving an idea of how long this might take on 56k dial up
(as many download sites currently do with other files) and warn that
this could be considerably longer when patches also need to be
downloaded. Haven't read the rest - never sell a game - never buy
second hand. No probs whatsoever with Steam. Will buy future Steam games.

--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"

Bertrand Russell
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 10:54:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Walter Mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> abagooba zoink larblortch news:cufo0t
$vde$01$2@news.t-online.com:

> HockeyTownUSA wrote:
>>
>>
>> Valve publish it through Steam.
>>
>>
>
> Which doesn't come in a box ...

No, steam come in kettle.
Anonymous
February 10, 2005 11:56:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly jeff@work.com (Jeff) Spake Unto All:

>>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
>>the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
>>tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
>>them.
>
>That is absolutely correct.
>
>What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution? What
>guarantees or rights does she possess?

The same as always: a license to use.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 12:36:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com...
> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
> Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
> the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
> labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling
>

This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although "sayNO2steam",
who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
the publisher is VU Games. VU Games is not Valve which is the developer of
HL2. VU Games is the same old standard publisher that we've been dealing
with for the last several years. This publisher has robbed the developer
of HL2 (Valve) of royalties, and is now being less than honest with single
player customers about setting up and playing HL2 single player component.

In fact, I'm still waiting for a picture posted on the web by difool that
compares the VU Games CEO to Stalin, or Pol Pot, or Josef Mengele...


> the insignificant reference you can find in the bottom of HL2 back
> cover to "internet required" is totally insuficient to describe what
> $team is and does and requires, so this move Germany made is very
> welcome
>
> but also Germany makes reference to shifts in the traditional way
> of selling games that also have to be addressed, like not being able
> to sell it in the 2nd hand market or the fee you must pay valve to
> change cd-key ownership
> Germany looked at much more than the simple "internet required" but
> to the brother picture of that $team is trying to do
>
> we now hope every country in the world will follow Germany path and
> much more investigation will be made to valve and $team, cause we
> won a battle but not the war! we must go on and continue fighting
> cause it ain't over yet
>

The publisher of HL2 is VU Games. They're the ones that are being less
than honest about what's on the HL2 box.

As to the war, it's just a matter of time. One day soon, CD/DVDs will be
setting next to the abacas, slide rule, 8 inch floppy, and the 8-track in a
museum.

<snip>
> ps: a big thanks to olddog that first post this great breaking news
>

No need to thank me. Cause my next pc game is going to be box-free,
gas-free, save the envirnoment, .... which means I'm looking forward to the
next Steam released game. ;) 

ps Are you difool? The same person that's called me: stupid, Steam
lover, ignorant, dumb, dumber, dumbest, selfish, uncaring, ....? Cause
there's no need to thank me for pointing out ground breaking news about
flaws in the PUBLISHERs game box. ;) 

> --
> test

test complete.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 12:36:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Jamie_Manic" wrote :
>
> Why are you spelling Steam like that? How do Valve make money off Steam in
> a way that annoys you? Electronic distribution is an option that some wish
> to take and has nothing at all to do with authentication or wharever silly
> thing you are all upset about.

Yeah electronic distribution has been a defacto standard for many years now
To mention a couple in the Enterprise Business
SAP, Legato, VMWare and our own company for that matters

Valve may have taken the wrong step and forgot all those people who only
wanted the SP version - imho they should have made the darn thing playable
without Steam
If anyone then opted for patch etc it would have been ok with the Steam
thing - imho

But face it at least the last three to years HL has been the foundation of a
rapidly growing online gaming business for FPS
A business you have to face and address the demands
Valve decided to introduce Steam

Steampowered kan be found as early as May 2002
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.steampowered.com

And here's the first press release about Steam from Valve, dated March 2002
http://web.archive.org/web/20021209154806/www.steampowe...

- Peter
February 11, 2005 12:43:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:36:05 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com>
wrote:

>This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although "sayNO2steam",
>who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
>the publisher is VU Games.

Sorry OldDog, this is a fact free thread. I tried to point it out, but
DiF***wits cronies informed me that mere facts weren't important and
all that mattered was that FUD is spread far and wide.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:12:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:37ln01t77odv81uk6t76rflvriuk0ksrgs@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:36:05 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although
"sayNO2steam",
> >who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
> >the publisher is VU Games.
>
> Sorry OldDog, this is a fact free thread. I tried to point it out, but
> DiF***wits cronies informed me that mere facts weren't important and
> all that mattered was that FUD is spread far and wide.
> --

"Just the facts, ma'am" ;) 

ps leave your opinion on the ground and step away from the car with your
hands in the air.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:41:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

jeff@work.com (Jeff) wrote in news:cugbh3$jp2$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu:

> In article <Xns95F95C1BAA41Bgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf
> Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You
>>buy the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a
>>CD, tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for
>>all of them.
>
> That is absolutely correct.
>
> What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution?
> What guarantees or rights does she possess?

He owns nothing and gains no rights by it. Thats not really going to be a
problem. If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
the game. All priveleges about the game are spelled out and allowed
seperate.

On a DirectDownload purchase his rights to the game are the same, but he
has no media ownership rights. He gained the program by a "service
contract" and once that action is complete his rights are pretty few.

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:41:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

>He owns nothing and gains no rights by it. Thats not really going to be a
>problem. If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
>the game.

I'm sorry. Did UCITA or some other simlar law pass? Until they do,
and even if they do, I'll regard the doctrine of first sale
in high esteem, and hold to certain English Common Law principles such
as "a meeting of the minds". Ethically, a license tossed into a box
has as much meaning to me as toilet paper.

Any reply whatsoever to this message indicates your agreement to sign
over all future equity in your house to me.

*woof*

C//
February 11, 2005 1:42:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:40:51 -0800, Chris Pound
<Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote:

>Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.

Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?</aliens>
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 2:00:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:8non01thhf5kerrdjugl146tr24c44lf28@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:40:51 -0800, Chris Pound
> <Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote:
>
>>Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.
>
> Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?</aliens>
> --
Affirmative</newt>
February 11, 2005 2:33:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"Courageous" <dontwant@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ilpn01hknd24flqfp4r3d3r2nijfah01no@4ax.com...
>
>>He owns nothing and gains no rights by it. Thats not really going to be a
>>problem. If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
>>the game.
>
> I'm sorry. Did UCITA or some other simlar law pass? Until they do,
> and even if they do, I'll regard the doctrine of first sale
> in high esteem, and hold to certain English Common Law principles such
> as "a meeting of the minds". Ethically, a license tossed into a box
> has as much meaning to me as toilet paper.
>
> Any reply whatsoever to this message indicates your agreement to sign
> over all future equity in your house to me.
>
> *woof*
>
> C//
>

But..

D'OH
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 2:33:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

>> Any reply whatsoever to this message indicates your agreement to sign
>> over all future equity in your house to me.

>But.. D'OH

*bellowing diabolical laughter*
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 3:53:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

"Courageous" <dontwant@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ilpn01hknd24flqfp4r3d3r2nijfah01no@4ax.com...
>
> >He owns nothing and gains no rights by it. Thats not really going to be a
> >problem. If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
> >the game.
>
> I'm sorry. Did UCITA or some other simlar law pass? Until they do,
> and even if they do, I'll regard the doctrine of first sale
> in high esteem, and hold to certain English Common Law principles such
> as "a meeting of the minds". Ethically, a license tossed into a box
> has as much meaning to me as toilet paper.
>
> Any reply whatsoever to this message indicates your agreement to sign
> over all future equity in your house to me.
>
> *woof*
>
> C//
>

Aggghhh! You made me look up UCITA! And the doctrine of first sale!!!

But it was interesting stuff. ;) 

http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/copycorner32Anne.htm

http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/ucita101.html

The first sale doctrine is one of the most important copyright law
principles for libraries.

U.C.I.T.A., the Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act, a model law
proposed by the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform Laws, would
further validate these take-it-or-leave licenses.

ps the house key is in the mail.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 4:53:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Chris Pound <Chris@invalid.noemail> Spake Unto All:

>>It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
>>statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
>>Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
>>facts he is and should just STFU.
>
>Vivendi didn't foist Steam upon us dork, Valve did.

Moron. That isn't what this thread is about the box design which Valve
DIDN'T do is.

BTW, you forgot the "s" after "dork".

Jeez, is it a prerequisite to have an IQ below 80 to be an
anti-steamer?



--
The US employs divide-and-conquer against EU
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-02/10/content_25...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981499.stm
http://www.fsfinalword.com/archive/Divide_and_conquer.h...

The US is no longer our ally: Federalize NOW!
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 4:53:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.> Spake Unto All:

>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:40:51 -0800, Chris Pound
><Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote:
>
>>Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.
>
>Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?</aliens>

Amazing, isn't it. And all in the last month or so.

There's something about steam which motivates the truly genuinely
*stupid* to come here to bitch and moan.

More than likely that their accounts got banned for piracy, cheating,
or carding.


--
The US employs divide-and-conquer against EU
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-02/10/content_25...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981499.stm
http://www.fsfinalword.com/archive/Divide_and_conquer.h...

The US is no longer our ally: Federalize NOW!
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 4:53:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Courageous <dontwant@spam.com> Spake Unto All:

>as "a meeting of the minds". Ethically, a license tossed into a box
>has as much meaning to me as toilet paper.

I really, truly, agree with you. The idea that shrinkwraps/EULAs are
binding contracts is repulsive, and the motivation, that the
technology does not allow for an easy way to have the user sign
documents, is frankly silly.
However, in just the last two years the software companies massive
lobbying has started to pay off, and right now it seems as if
shrinkwraps/EULAs may soon be accepted as legally binding.

EULA: All Your Base Are Belong To Us. Reading this post indicates
acceptance of these terms.


--
The US employs divide-and-conquer against EU
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-02/10/content_25...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981499.stm
http://www.fsfinalword.com/archive/Divide_and_conquer.h...

The US is no longer our ally: Federalize NOW!
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 5:00:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

It seems that all this bad publicity is from newbies to HL. Those of us
who've been on HL, CS and DOD for years (5 years) had our ears to the ground
and KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT.

Sure, Steam was a new and a pain at first but we quickly adapted.

Every negative detail I've read in this NG was exposed PRIOR TO HL2's
RELEASE.

SO, if your sorry ass found it's way here on the NG's you should've already
know what was up. If your sorry ass recieved HL2 for Chistmas... well, I
understand your newbie 'tude.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 6:53:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"- - : R A T B o y : - -" <- - : R A T B o y : - -@shovit_dude.com> wrote in
message news:LkUOd.39786$uA.4379@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> It seems that all this bad publicity is from newbies to HL. Those of us
> who've been on HL, CS and DOD for years (5 years) had our ears to the
ground
> and KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT.
>
> Sure, Steam was a new and a pain at first but we quickly adapted.
>
> Every negative detail I've read in this NG was exposed PRIOR TO HL2's
> RELEASE.
>
> SO, if your sorry ass found it's way here on the NG's you should've
already
> know what was up. If your sorry ass recieved HL2 for Chistmas... well, I
> understand your newbie 'tude.
>
>

This sorry ass got it for Xmas. For some sorry ass reason, my wife thought
that I would enjoy it. I did the first time thru. For some sorry ass
reason, I quit about 25% thru my 2nd time.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 6:57:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

OldDog wrote:
> "- - : R A T B o y : - -" <- - : R A T B o y : - -@shovit_dude.com> wrote in
> message news:LkUOd.39786$uA.4379@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
>>It seems that all this bad publicity is from newbies to HL. Those of us
>>who've been on HL, CS and DOD for years (5 years) had our ears to the
>
> ground
>
>>and KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT.
>>
>>Sure, Steam was a new and a pain at first but we quickly adapted.
>>
>>Every negative detail I've read in this NG was exposed PRIOR TO HL2's
>>RELEASE.
>>
>>SO, if your sorry ass found it's way here on the NG's you should've
>
> already
>
>>know what was up. If your sorry ass recieved HL2 for Chistmas... well, I
>>understand your newbie 'tude.
>>
>>
>
>
> This sorry ass got it for Xmas. For some sorry ass reason, my wife thought
> that I would enjoy it. I did the first time thru. For some sorry ass
> reason, I quit about 25% thru my 2nd time.
>

That must be a real sore ass you've got there. :) 
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 8:11:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:53:55 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:



>Moron. That isn't what this thread is about the box design which Valve
>DIDN'T do is.
>
>BTW, you forgot the "s" after "dork".
>
>Jeez, is it a prerequisite to have an IQ below 80 to be an
>anti-steamer?

dork=singular
dorks=plural
dork=you (singular)
your IQ must be below 60
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 8:42:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Chris Pound wrote:
> > dork=singular
> dorks=plural
> dork=you (singular)
> your IQ must be below 60

If you'd been aiming the comment an individual, you'd have needed a
comma:
- Vivendi didn't foist Steam upon us, dork, Valve did

IQ heading for the low 40s...
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 12:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

Jeff wrote:

> In article <Xns95F95C1BAA41Bgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>
>>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
>>the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
>>tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
>>them.
>
>
> That is absolutely correct.
>
> What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution? What
> guarantees or rights does she possess?

Same as alway.

On that note, what is the big push with she rather than they, them, us,
and we?
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 12:41:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Chris Pound <Chris@invalid.noemail> writes:

> Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.

Yes, and Valve are very up front about HL2 using Steam. It's the
makers of the retail boxes - i.e. the publisher VU Games - that have
made a boo-boo with the box.
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:33:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005, OldDog wrote:

> The publisher of HL2 is VU Games. They're the ones that are being less
> than honest about what's on the HL2 box.

Hello? AFAIK VU Games was fighting in court to prevent the whole Steam
issue in the first place. I bet if Valve would let them, there would be
retail versions without Steam, which of course would lower Steam sales
which Valve is not interested in...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
February 11, 2005 1:41:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:9tQOd.39702$uA.21861@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>

> This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although
"sayNO2steam",
> who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
> the publisher is VU Games. VU Games is not Valve which is the developer
of
> HL2. VU Games is the same old standard publisher that we've been dealing
> with for the last several years. This publisher has robbed the developer
> of HL2 (Valve) of royalties, and is now being less than honest with single
> player customers about setting up and playing HL2 single player component.

As others have pointed out, Valve is the developer of Steam and it is they
who made it mandatory for retail-boxed copies as well. Vivendi has to make
changes to the box becasue of Valve. Vivendi are opposing Steam only because
it is affecting their share of the profits when the game is sold only
through Steam; basically they're doing the right thing for their own
benefit.
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