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Vista Service Pack 3

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October 25, 2009 10:51:31 AM

Windows 7 isn't an OS, its a Service Pack. And SP's are usually FREE! So why are we being charged £150+ for this one?

Its a marketing scam and everyone is onboard - TV, Magazines and the gullible general public.

This is how much work Microsoft has done;

1. Windows Vista<
2. Windows Vist<
3. Windows Vis<
4. Windows Vi<
5. Windows V<
6. Windows <

7. Windows 7

Seven simple steps to fooling everybody.

The things I've read about and seen are sheer lies.

- Faster Internet! (Uses Internet Explorer 8, which you can download on XP or Vista)
- XP Mode (You can buy XP AND Vista for cheaper than Windows 7 Professional)
- Aero Peek (comes with Vista)
- Less demanding on RAM than Vista (No, its near identical)

Phrases like 'Ease of use' and words such as 'convenient' are perfect examples of the claimed "improvements" over Vista - they got nothing!

PC Gamer even showed that on Far Cry 2 @ 1920x1200 Vista was 5fps faster (20fps compared to 7's 15fps), so maybe Dx11 is even more sluggish than Dx10.

My feeling is that the smart people will dual boot XP and Vista, and save themselves a good £50+ and the people who think that dual boot is too technical a term will buy Windows 7 Professional (as Windows 7 Home Ed doesn't have XP Mode).

All the changes of Windows 7 could have been added into Vista's next Service Pack, and the ones that can't be added are not needed.

P.S. I know i can "upgade" from Vista for £80, but I'm not gunna. Are you?


More about : vista service pack

a b $ Windows 7
October 25, 2009 1:01:24 PM

they are updating the kernel as well from 6.0 to 6.1 (kind of like 2000->xp went from 5.0 to 5.1)

XP mode is nice for people/businesses that need XP functionality and are worried about EOL (End Of Life)

I haven;t experience any game slowdown (and yes i tested)

less non-critical/non-needed services off by default, which means none of that tweaking you had to do in vista

i get 2 full copies through school (and i am using that $30 one for my laptop) so i will be switching, at the same hand, if i didn't get them for free/cheap i would just stay with vista, also keep in mind is that this doesn't raise the price of new computers

probably one of the reasons that his seems like an update is that M$ is making their release time shorter (ie from about 5 yrs to 2.5-3 yrs), so really you should be fine getting every other windows
a b $ Windows 7
October 25, 2009 4:06:35 PM

jayce85 said:
Windows 7 isn't an OS, its a Service Pack. And SP's are usually FREE! So why are we being charged £150+ for this one?

Its a marketing scam and everyone is onboard - TV, Magazines and the gullible general public.

This is how much work Microsoft has done;

1. Windows Vista<
2. Windows Vist<
3. Windows Vis<
4. Windows Vi<
5. Windows V<
6. Windows <

7. Windows 7

Seven simple steps to fooling everybody.

The things I've read about and seen are sheer lies.

- Faster Internet! (Uses Internet Explorer 8, which you can download on XP or Vista)
- XP Mode (You can buy XP AND Vista for cheaper than Windows 7 Professional)
- Aero Peek (comes with Vista)
- Less demanding on RAM than Vista (No, its near identical)

Phrases like 'Ease of use' and words such as 'convenient' are perfect examples of the claimed "improvements" over Vista - they got nothing!

PC Gamer even showed that on Far Cry 2 @ 1920x1200 Vista was 5fps faster (20fps compared to 7's 15fps), so maybe Dx11 is even more sluggish than Dx10.

My feeling is that the smart people will dual boot XP and Vista, and save themselves a good £50+ and the people who think that dual boot is too technical a term will buy Windows 7 Professional (as Windows 7 Home Ed doesn't have XP Mode).

All the changes of Windows 7 could have been added into Vista's next Service Pack, and the ones that can't be added are not needed.

P.S. I know i can "upgade" from Vista for £80, but I'm not gunna. Are you?

Well if your not going to buy it I suppose MS are really going to be in the crapper, that £80 is what's going to break them for sure. :sarcastic: 
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a b $ Windows 7
October 26, 2009 7:01:49 PM

Quote:
My feeling is that the smart people will dual boot XP and Vista, and save themselves a good £50+ and the people who think that dual boot is too technical a term will buy Windows 7 Professional (as Windows 7 Home Ed doesn't have XP Mode).


Well this smart person isn't going to dual-boot... not because it's too technical (currently dual-booting Vista and 7 RC... after having created a second partition on my RAID array with Ubuntu's LiveCD.), but because I won't need to. I don't need to run XP... as everything I have runs quite nicely in Vista / 7. Why waste time setting up a unnecessary dual-boot scenario? I don't have a plethora of free time and I don't want to waste what I have doing something that I don't need.

The only reason that I dual-boot with Vista and the 7 RC is because I've never thought that running a pre-release version of Windows as my primary OS was a good idea. Besides, until recently, my printer wouldn't work with 7... so if I wanted to print from the laptop, I had to be in Vista. Now that the issue has been fixed with newer drivers... I can be confident that Win 7 will fulfill my needs.
October 27, 2009 7:50:14 AM

Far Cry 2 does not use DX11. Its still DX10. And most game tests were done on pretty early software meaning drivers had yet to be finalized for Windows 7.

Over time, there will be tweaks and updates to put 7 beyond Vista.

I have it but TBH the best thing is the new task bar. That alone is worth getting it.

And screw upgrading. Clean install all the way.
a b $ Windows 7
October 27, 2009 8:12:15 AM

Some prefer it, some do not. Yes, it is Vista done right, but it isn't a service pack by any means. New GUI, DX11, kernel update (as mentioned), SSD support, etc... That kind of stuff would surely never ever come in a SP. Plain and simple, it is a new OS, but not as dramatic as the changes from XP to Vista.
October 27, 2009 8:18:17 AM

I'm still yet to hear anything that makes Windows 7 worth the price tag.

Why are you willing to spend money on a new Microsofts new OS after claiming to have been let down by Vista? Doesn't that REWARD Microsoft for messing up?

I had one XP PC for over 4years, the OS was fine and the upgrades keep it running smooth. Now it seems you need a new PC every other year, with a new OS!?

I recently built a Vista rig, and I'm yet to be convinced that a £80+ OS makeover is worth it.

October 27, 2009 8:54:57 AM

I personally thing MS should offer it EXTREMELY cheap to the Vista owners. Why? Obvious, MS messed up with Vista and as consumers go, we should not of had to pay the price. You can have an argument about people using the software illegally and MS is way beyond that and will just make everyone pay.
October 27, 2009 8:58:54 AM

I got it free. I upgraded. I did the same with Vista. Had I not got either OS free I'd still be on XP as MS hasn't offered me anything I can't live without, except better SSD support.
October 27, 2009 9:23:11 AM

It's a case of don't want it then don't buy it.

The differences might be incremental and could honestly be fitted as a rather large service pack. From a marketing standpoint 'Vista' is a tarnished name and they'd be putting in a lot more dollars to resurrect the name than marketing a new one.

Feeding people with the idea: 'Windows 7 is the greatest thing since toasted bread' is a lot easier since Windows 7 is a new concept than trying to say 'Windows Vista is now faster, leaner, easier! Please try it, pretty please?'

Win 7 is worth the price when moving from XP, from Vista however is really up to your pocket.
October 27, 2009 9:23:52 AM

Wow... it's so bloody expensive...

I'll give Microsoft my money gladly, as they have served me well for many years.

Think of it this way... last time I went out to the movies, I ate beforehand ($20), I saw the movie ($25), I ate again ($25), took a cab home ($20), and bought Win7 Home x64 OEM ($110)...
Hmm... just a day out, costs as much as the OS about...

Stop your bitching.
October 27, 2009 9:29:02 AM

OMG ur all barking up the wrong tree.....

the reason they have done it isnt to make the money per copy its because

vista had a bad name in the past... and no matter how good they make it, it still has a bad rep.

win 7 is here so average joe is told by thier I.T friend thats a good OS go buy that and for companies to not worry about upgrading thier whole IT systems to it

can u blame MS cause ppl aint smart enough to work out vista is now actually a nice OS? its peoples fault we have win 7 not MS
October 27, 2009 9:29:09 AM

That is why I hire the DVD ($7) and eat at home ($0). :D 
October 27, 2009 10:02:29 AM

Wish I just used someones .edu email account and gotten it for $30 though...
October 27, 2009 10:36:46 AM

randomizer said:
That is why I hire the DVD ($7) and eat at home ($0). :D 


That's moer that I would spend tbh - have to hired out a movie for years now.... Just watch whatever the cable box has on demand (free mind you)
a b $ Windows 7
October 27, 2009 2:20:06 PM

Why will I be buying it? Because I wasn't stupid enough to buy Vista. If anything Vista was the waste of time, not Windows 7.

There were a large number of technological advances Microsoft were developing (ReadyBoost, Superfetch, Bitlocker, their own GPU-ehanced UI, etc.) that were basically sitting on the shelf because there was no OS to put it in, since Vienna was going to be so far away (late 2009/early 2010).

So Vista was cobbled together to fill the void between the ageing XP and the shiny Vienna. And what a mistake it was - we all know the backlash.

And now, lo and behold, Vienna has been released late 2009 just like they always planned, and it is good.

I never bought Vista because I didn't need it - yes I'm a designer and I like and make shiny things, but I had no use for the eye-candy that is Aero (especially as Microsoft can't even rip off OSX properly), wasn't running a system advanced enough to benefit from ReadyBoost or Superfetch, and I'm not stupid enough to carry data on a portable system sensitive enough to require Bitlocker. to me. Vista was the unnecessary upgrade.

Now though, my new system will be running SSDs, serious graphics horsepower to embrace DX10.1 and DX11 and 12GB RAM (at least), and Windows 7 has all the goods to fully utilise all this.
October 27, 2009 4:40:07 PM

LePhuronn said:
Why will I be buying it? Because I wasn't stupid enough to buy Vista. If anything Vista was the waste of time, not Windows 7.


Vista and Windows 7 are near identical. So to slate one and not the other is illogical.

To then say you have no need for "eye-candy" and then admit to wanting run Windows 7, which packs even more useless gadgets is hypocrisy.

SSDs are no way near good enough to being worth the price tag, which is proberly why you want them to complement your over-priced Windows 7.

XP takes an age to partition HDDs and install. Vista makes this process a breeze. Vista brought huge, much needed change (and yes borrowed from Apple's OS X). Windows 7 is a FIX, nothing more than an update of Vista.

"What a mistake it was"... What are you talking about!? Windows 7 is nothing more than a shallow marketing scam, and you've been fooled by it.

PCs are all about 'bang per buck' and quite frankly Windows 7 is not £100 better than Vista. Thats the point I'm trying to make.







a b $ Windows 7
October 27, 2009 4:56:04 PM

...so don't use it. Problem solved.


Next!!
October 27, 2009 5:07:00 PM

Reason WHY to upgrade to windows 7 if your not running a p4 rig:

* New kernels: Windows Memory manager, "Dispatcher", better media playback.

* New GUI that helps keep things simple and easy to access: You can pin progams to the task bar much more efficiently then in previous versions of windows by little little icons. Also it no longer uses quicklaunch which caused issues in the past.

* DX 11: .... you should know about this, if you don't perhaps you shouldn't have written this post. Yes Vista is also getting DX 11, but most of the core changes such as Memory manger, dispatches, and media kernels are not present.

* Benchmarks are unreliable at the moment simply because only 1 can do DX 11 benchmarks, and that isnt even out yet. Not to mention no benchmark uses full use of the system (in terms of more then FPS but loading time/rendering/etc). So yes the results are similar in the end simply because of the uselessness of the synthetics..

* Isolated running programs: They have done a better job at keeping programs isolated, so if they crash they don't crash Explorer or Desktop. Vista had this of course, however the level of implementation often amplified crashes by making Window's permissions control freeze while working out rights thus freezing desktop, task manages and anything else.. Most of this was fixed in Service pack 1/2. But Windows 7 out of the box already carries even further isolation, you could call it sandbox but it really isnt sand box.

* Student discounts take the price down to a low price of $30 which is even less expensive then the Ultimate steal for microsoft office (then again office ultimate runs a few hundred dollars...)

* Default: Non-critical features are turned off, a few performance features are left on such as superfetch.

* Multitouch tablet/monitor compatibility "out of the box"

* Aero shake features, this helps tremendously with managing files. Specially useful in larger screens.

* More responsive; due to kernel changes.

* Supports better networking; you can easily set up computers across a network, or across remote desktop to share files.

* Security has been beefed up: I need to research more of this, I forgot what I read in the developer forums.

* A few other key implementations were also brought on under the hood however I have not yet researched these enough to find out whether or not they were helpful or meaningful in any way.



October 27, 2009 10:57:01 PM

jayce85 said:
SSDs are no way near good enough to being worth the price tag

You have not used an SSD, this is clear.
a b $ Windows 7
October 27, 2009 11:14:32 PM

Hasn't used Vista or Windows 7 either, for that matter.
October 28, 2009 4:43:28 AM

@ AsAnAthiest
Better networking?
Homegroup doesn't count (great for sharing libraries, bad for sharing an entire HDD).
Though I'm pro Win7, WinXP had easier networking... don't have rights this, wrong username that...
October 28, 2009 5:29:01 AM

Win 7 networking is ok as long as all PCs use Win 7, otherwise it's just another hurdle to getting a network up.
October 28, 2009 6:53:03 AM

I needed some good comedy, thank you badge.
October 28, 2009 12:38:23 PM

anamaniac said:
@ AsAnAthiest
Better networking?
Homegroup doesn't count (great for sharing libraries, bad for sharing an entire HDD).
Though I'm pro Win7, WinXP had easier networking... don't have rights this, wrong username that...


Homegroup is a form of networking, and to be honest a quite efficient way to share media. If your in need for a full on network, your stuck taking the same steps as before with Vista or XP. Now even thought your using the "same" steps the networking has been enhanced in forms for security, as well as performance.

Google: Windows 7 Guide, and search there "For IT professionals". It has enough information to satisfy your nogin.
October 28, 2009 2:51:58 PM

No one mentioned that there's going to be a REAL Vista Service Pack 3!!
October 28, 2009 3:18:29 PM

psycho sykes said:
No one mentioned that there's going to be a REAL Vista Service Pack 3!!


When? There's no mention of it on Microsoft's website.

And Microsoft's priority has been Windows 7, not "fixing" Vista.

My origional point was that Windows 7 has addressed and resolved all Vista's "issues", WITHOUT addressing and resolving Vista's issues!
a b $ Windows 7
October 28, 2009 3:39:45 PM

jayce85 said:
When? There's no mention of it on Microsoft's website.

And Microsoft's priority has been Windows 7, not "fixing" Vista.

My origional point was that Windows 7 has addressed and resolved all Vista's "issues", WITHOUT addressing and resolving Vista's issues!

Service pack 3 for Vista is probably the one that will update DX10 to DX11, probably.
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/518-directx-11-vista.html
a b $ Windows 7
October 28, 2009 4:22:20 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Service pack 3 for Vista is probably the one that will update DX10 to DX11, probably.
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/518-directx-11-vista.html



Nope - No SP3. It's a Platform Update for Windows Vista Technologies


...and is available NOW and should be locate~able through Windows Update.



Reference: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971644


Please be advised you will still need the appropriate hardware to take advantage - i.e. an ATI 58** series GPU.



Download KB KB971512 - Includes DX11 - For 32 Bit Vista - (4.6mb)


Download KB 971512 - Includes DX11 - for Vista 64bit (9.4mb)


**Mouse - I would have posted it directly to the Vista forum already, but my employer has seen fit to continue inflicting XP/IE6 upon us. And does so despite documented evidence of Server 2008(R2) in the building. Didn't used to be a problem, but there was some change made to Tom's a few months ago, and since then I have been unable to post a new thread from work. Only the quick reply is available. At home, on Vista or Win 7 and IE7+ and Firefox, the site works well.
a b $ Windows 7
October 28, 2009 4:30:32 PM

No worries mate, I just saw that article a couple of day's ago and kind of assumed that the addition of DX11 would be included in the next (and maybe last) update for Vista and according to the article you had to go hunting for it on the MS site something I can't be bothered to do so thank you sir for linking to the files in question you're a braver man than me for trawling the MS database. :lol: 
a b $ Windows 7
October 28, 2009 4:34:08 PM

Mousemonkey said:
...you're a braver man than me for trawling the MS database. :lol: 



The support site really is shyte, isn't it.... :lol: 
a b $ Windows 7
October 28, 2009 4:44:37 PM

Scotteq said:
The support site really is shyte, isn't it.... :lol: 

Oh the amount of times I've spent a good few hours fruitlessly searching for some little nugget of info and still come away empty handed over the years is countless, there is a special corner of Hell reserved for the Admins of that site. :lol: 
October 29, 2009 1:12:16 AM

Why would there be? Same API, same underlying OS (essentially).
October 29, 2009 8:51:56 PM

They said that the "platform update" or whatever is going to be a part of Vista SP3.. That's AFAIK..

Medo
a b $ Windows 7
October 30, 2009 12:35:14 PM

randomizer said:
Why would there be? Same API, same underlying OS (essentially).



/agreed. You'd have to run a DX11 card to take advantage. Posted that because - (as sure as the coming dawn) - you know someone is going to ask.


psycho sykes said:
They said that the "platform update" or whatever is going to be a part of Vista SP3.. That's AFAIK..

Medo



Vista owners who ran Windows Update this week already have it.


{Edit to add DX Diag screenie}


!