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after HL2 more Demos with copy-protection?

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Anonymous
February 12, 2005 2:00:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

has the world gone completely crazy?
demos with copy-protection?
a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
isn't this completely insane?
after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
demo with starforce copy-protection?
starforce?
this is unbelievable!
what's next? what will the publishers have next for us?
one thing is protecting pc games and we all understand it, but
another completely different is this continuous abuse, we face
from some developers and publishers!
we have to separate the publishers that respect us from those
that don't!
valve we all know they don't give a damn about us, but we now
have one to join them... simbin
so sad we have to deal with things like valve and simbin

this is the link for the gtr demo were you can find the readme
file with the unbelievable, a demo with starforce!
http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1096480938/
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 2:00:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:

<snip>

I noticed your not using Individual.net as a news subscriber anymore. Did
they finally kick you off?
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 2:51:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o bor01d28egf48no3n3ch0kves795guu80@4ax.com...
> has the world gone completely crazy?
> demos with copy-protection?
> a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
> isn't this completely insane?
> after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
> demo with starforce copy-protection?
> starforce?
> this is unbelievable!
> what's next? what will the publishers have next for us?
> one thing is protecting pc games and we all understand it, but
> another completely different is this continuous abuse, we face
> from some developers and publishers!
> we have to separate the publishers that respect us from those
> that don't!
> valve we all know they don't give a damn about us, but we now
> have one to join them... simbin
> so sad we have to deal with things like valve and simbin
>
> this is the link for the gtr demo were you can find the readme
> file with the unbelievable, a demo with starforce!
> http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1096480938/
>

Will your sick obsession span infinite incarnations, through both time and
space, unable to break even the bonds of death? Will your incorporeal
remains touch the living in an incessant, miserable, barely audible mewling
in starlight, tainted by the agony of a lost cause: "Steeaaammmmm,
Steeeeaaaaaammmmmm, STEEEAAAAAMMMMM!"?

"Mommy, mommy, what's that horrible sound?"
"Go back to sleep, darling, it can't hurt you."
"But it sounds so sad!"
"You should have heard it when it was alive...you're right, it's very sad."
Related resources
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 4:21:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:

> has the world gone completely crazy?
> demos with copy-protection?
> a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
> isn't this completely insane?
> after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
> demo with starforce copy-protection?
> starforce?
> this is unbelievable!
> what's next? what will the publishers have next for us?
> one thing is protecting pc games and we all understand it, but
> another completely different is this continuous abuse, we face
> from some developers and publishers!
> we have to separate the publishers that respect us from those
> that don't!
> valve we all know they don't give a damn about us, but we now
> have one to join them... simbin
> so sad we have to deal with things like valve and simbin
>
> this is the link for the gtr demo were you can find the readme
> file with the unbelievable, a demo with starforce!
> http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1096480938/

I thought demo's were MENT to be shared around :S


--
DalienX
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 4:21:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:21:28 GMT, "DalienX" <somewhere@earth.com> wrote:

>I thought demo's were MENT to be shared around :S

Demos are meant to be shared - please just submit a DNA sample so they can
collect your offspring in return.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
Anonymous
February 12, 2005 7:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o bor01d28egf48no3n3ch0kves795guu80@4ax.com...
> has the world gone completely crazy?
> demos with copy-protection?
> a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
> isn't this completely insane?
> after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
> demo with starforce copy-protection?
> starforce?
> this is unbelievable!
> what's next? what will the publishers have next for us?

I prefer that they tip their hand this way in the demo - that way, potential
customers will be forewarned as to what they'll be installing if the buy the
real game.
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 12:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam wrote:
> has the world gone completely crazy?
> demos with copy-protection?
> a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
> isn't this completely insane?
> after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
> demo with starforce copy-protection?
> starforce?
> this is unbelievable!
> what's next? what will the publishers have next for us?
> one thing is protecting pc games and we all understand it, but
> another completely different is this continuous abuse, we face
> from some developers and publishers!
> we have to separate the publishers that respect us from those
> that don't!
> valve we all know they don't give a damn about us, but we now
> have one to join them... simbin
> so sad we have to deal with things like valve and simbin
>
> this is the link for the gtr demo were you can find the readme
> file with the unbelievable, a demo with starforce!
> http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1096480938/
>

Where have you been?
This isn't the first demo that had StarForce on it.
The TOCA 2 demo had it.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=6e1c2d4954...

I'm sure you'll love this link
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?s...
It claims that StarForce and Safedisk have a fight with each
other and you can't have both working on the same computer.

At least they warn you with the GTR demo that it has StarForce,
so you can choose not to download and install it.
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 1:20:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>has the world gone completely crazy?
>demos with copy-protection?
>a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
>isn't this completely insane?
>after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
>demo with starforce copy-protection?
>starforce?

It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
certain how the final product will run on their system.
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 1:20:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"drocket" <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:190t01dn1j24qt57n0kl0ibokptvg17nkl@4ax.com...
>
> It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
> is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
> product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
> true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
> copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
> Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
> certain how the final product will run on their system.


I was going to laugh at the prospect of copy-protecting a demo until I saw
this post. Such protection would give a person a more realistic idea if the
full version will work on their system. There's nothing like trying out a
game demo, having it work great, and then going out and buying the full game
and having trouble getting it to work.
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 7:55:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Simon Nejmann wrote:
> And another more compelling reason, for the developers/publishers, is
> that generally the executable for the demo and the final game is very
> similar.

If they're retarded enough to allow the demo executable to run the full
game content, that's their problem, not ours.

> Thus by putting protection on your demo, you make it much harder for
> the crackers to do their thing, thus cutting down on piracy.

So the plan is, they put copy protection on their demo, making them
look like retards to any gamer with a clue, so we then decide not to
buy their game, all in the name of 'cutting down on piracy'?

Mark
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 3:25:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:20:00 GMT, drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
><sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>has the world gone completely crazy?
>>demos with copy-protection?
>>a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
>>isn't this completely insane?
>>after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
>>demo with starforce copy-protection?
>>starforce?
>
>It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
>is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
>product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
>true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
>copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
>Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
>certain how the final product will run on their system.

And another more compelling reason, for the developers/publishers, is
that generally the executable for the demo and the final game is very
similar. Thus if crackers have a protection free demo-exe and a
protected retail-exe, it is much easier for them to find the
protection parts in the retail-exe and remove/circumvent them.
Thus by putting protection on your demo, you make it much harder for
the crackers to do their thing, thus cutting down on piracy.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
February 13, 2005 5:19:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

<mmaker@my-deja.com> wrote

> So the plan is, they put copy protection on their demo, making them
> look like retards to any gamer with a clue, so we then decide not to
> buy their game, all in the name of 'cutting down on piracy'?

And in English?
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 6:30:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

mmaker@my-deja.com wrote:


>
> If they're retarded enough to allow the demo executable to run the full
> game content, that's their problem, not ours.
> So the plan is, they put copy protection on their demo, making them
> look like retards to any gamer with a clue, so we then decide not to
> buy their game, all in the name of 'cutting down on piracy'?

What a "retard" you must be if you dont see that a demo should show all
key, HW challenging features - including Steam which is much more than a
copy protection scheme - it is also a comprehensive SW management system.
Anonymous
February 13, 2005 8:07:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:04:42 -0700, "NightSky 421"
<nightsky421@yahoo.ca> wrote:

:>"drocket" <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:>news:190t01dn1j24qt57n0kl0ibokptvg17nkl@4ax.com...
:>>
:>> It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
:>> is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
:>> product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
:>> true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
:>> copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
:>> Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
:>> certain how the final product will run on their system.
:>
:>
:>I was going to laugh at the prospect of copy-protecting a demo until I saw
:>this post. Such protection would give a person a more realistic idea if the
:>full version will work on their system. There's nothing like trying out a
:>game demo, having it work great, and then going out and buying the full game
:>and having trouble getting it to work.
:>

So, since most forms of copy protection are disc based, how does a
downloadable demo tell you whether your particular CD/DVD drive will
be able to handle the disc based protection in the final product?
With so many different brands and models of CD and DVD drives out
there there always seems to be a percentage of purchasers of new games
that their particular drive will not correctly read the copy
protection.

The curious one,
me/2
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 1:59:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

drocket wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
> <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>has the world gone completely crazy?
>>demos with copy-protection?
>>a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
>>isn't this completely insane?
>>after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
>>demo with starforce copy-protection?
>>starforce?
>
>
> It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
> is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
> product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
> true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
> copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
> Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
> certain how the final product will run on their system.


How? The demo doesn't use the CD drive. If StarForce doesn't
work with your CD drive, it won't make any difference with the demo.
It will with the game.
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 3:06:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

mrlg <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:D ZQPd.11927$oO.8154
@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> drocket wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
>> <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>has the world gone completely crazy?
>>>demos with copy-protection?
>>>a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
>>>isn't this completely insane?
>>>after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
>>>demo with starforce copy-protection?
>>>starforce?
>>
>> It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
>> is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
>> product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
>> true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
>> copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
>> Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
>> certain how the final product will run on their system.
>
> How? The demo doesn't use the CD drive. If StarForce doesn't
> work with your CD drive, it won't make any difference with the demo.
> It will with the game.

Couldnt it simulate that?
I agree with Drocket that its a good thing for Demos to try to simulate
as closely as possible whether or not the game will run on the users
system

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 8:54:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Gandalf Parker wrote:
> mrlg <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:D ZQPd.11927$oO.8154
> @newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>
>>drocket wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
>>><sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>has the world gone completely crazy?
>>>>demos with copy-protection?
>>>>a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
>>>>isn't this completely insane?
>>>>after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
>>>>demo with starforce copy-protection?
>>>>starforce?
>>>
>>>It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
>>>is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
>>>product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
>>>true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
>>>copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
>>>Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
>>>certain how the final product will run on their system.
>>
>>How? The demo doesn't use the CD drive. If StarForce doesn't
>>work with your CD drive, it won't make any difference with the demo.
>>It will with the game.
>
>
> Couldn't it simulate that?

How? From what I've read, StarForce checks the physical
way the data is laid out CD and compares it with the
code that you type in.
I bought a game with StarForce 3 on it. One drive
wouldn't work with it (it gave up after 20 minutes of
trying) and the other drive worked about 2/3 of the
time. How do you simulate something like that?
Both drives work fine except for the problem with
StarForce 3 (though I haven't tried them with any
games that use the latest version of SafeDisk).


> I agree with Drocket that its a good thing for
> Demos to try to simulate as closely as possible
> whether or not the game will run on the users
> system

How can you simulate a CD in a drive and getting
past the StarForce copy check? From what I've read,
StarForce detects details of how the information is
laid out on the CD - not just what data is there,
but how the data is physically laid out on the game CD.

There might be software that would detect what model
of CD drive I have, but how would they know if my
drive reads at a slightly different speed from most
other drives of the same model? How could they
simulate my particular drive's behavior in a demo
that is downloaded. They'd have to issue the demo
on a CD.

> Gandalf Parker
>
>
Anonymous
February 14, 2005 5:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

mrlg <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:M2XPd.1424$SO.840
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> There might be software that would detect what model
> of CD drive I have, but how would they know if my
> drive reads at a slightly different speed from most
> other drives of the same model? How could they
> simulate my particular drive's behavior in a demo
> that is downloaded. They'd have to issue the demo
> on a CD.

If it cant then it cant. Oh well, sorry guy. But it would be nice if they
made an effort to test as much as they can. There will always be some
unknowns but any legal case always gets into the argument of "reasonable
effort made".

The majority of non-hacker complaints Ive seen is for drives or software or
drivers which doent work with newer games because they specifically bypass
protections. A list of those could be written into a demo and used to check
for known incompatabilities.

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 12:01:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:59:21 GMT, mrlg <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>How? The demo doesn't use the CD drive. If StarForce doesn't
>work with your CD drive, it won't make any difference with the demo.
>It will with the game.

I have no idea. It must do SOMETHING, though, or else why else would
they have included it in the demo?
February 15, 2005 12:01:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"drocket" <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ap4211d96v11v5rsqrolg1rs9dpt3s6nm0@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:59:21 GMT, mrlg <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>How? The demo doesn't use the CD drive. If StarForce doesn't
>>work with your CD drive, it won't make any difference with the demo.
>>It will with the game.
>
> I have no idea. It must do SOMETHING, though, or else why else would
> they have included it in the demo?

Perhaps Starforce is a worm/spyware etc. They are trying to get it on as
many machines as possible.

As you stated there has to be some reason why they would include it in a
demo

Perhaps it will 'activate' at some point in the future, kinda like a nasty
liddle back orifice thing sitting on your computer waiting to pounch
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 12:01:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:05:11 -0500, "Saitek" <saitek@saitek.com>
wrote:


>As you stated there has to be some reason why they would include it in a
>demo

I read an interview with one of the developers of Starforce and he
said the reason they include Starforce in the demos is so that the
pirates can't used a non-Starforce demo to try and reverse engineer
the full game.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 9:21:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:05:11 -0500, "Saitek" <saitek@saitek.com>
wrote:

>Perhaps Starforce is a worm/spyware etc. They are trying to get it on as
>many machines as possible.
>
>As you stated there has to be some reason why they would include it in a
>demo
>
>Perhaps it will 'activate' at some point in the future, kinda like a nasty
>liddle back orifice thing sitting on your computer waiting to pounch

Doubtful: Starforce is legitimate software. Annoying, but legitimate.

In addition to what Chris Pound said about preventing pirates from
getting a non-protected copy of the executable, I did think of another
reason: they may be working to embed the anti-pirate code deeper in
the code. Instead of just having it be a patch they slap on as the
last step of development, they may be putting the roots of the
protection into the code earlier so that its more entwined with the
rest of the code and therefore harder to remove. In that case, it
might not be possible for them to release a demo that doesn't have the
protection.
Anonymous
February 15, 2005 11:12:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:20:00 GMT, drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:00:16 +0000, sayNO2steam
><sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>has the world gone completely crazy?
>>demos with copy-protection?
>>a demo featuring starforce copy-protection?
>>isn't this completely insane?
>>after hl2 demo having steam intrusive copy-protection now a
>>demo with starforce copy-protection?
>>starforce?
>
>It makes sense to me. One of the key reasons that people play demos
>is to see how well the game will run on their system. If the final
>product varies greatly from the demo, that indicator may no longer be
>true, and you could have a demo that runs well on your system, but the
>copy protection on the final product cause problems. By including
>Steam/copy protect/whatever else in the demo, everyone will know for
>certain how the final product will run on their system.

Very good to see a level headed rebuttal post here regarding this
topic.

Even if one doesn't agree about CP being in any game demo, your post
makes a valid point.
!