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proposal for group fighting piracy

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Anonymous
February 19, 2005 1:15:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, "OldDog" wrote:

> What do you see the group doing that would help fight piracy?

the only purpose of the group would be protecting pc games, only!
and for that i think we would need three main points:
.. information
.. awareness
.. communication

information - give to every pc gamer the information he needs to help
him find the best games at the best prices cause i believe if you have
the information and do your home work, you can buy your pc games at
great low prices. still many pc gamers think pc games are expensive
when in reality they are not

awareness - make pc gamers conscious of the damage piracy does to games
and make them actively protect the thing they like the most. there are
still pc gamers that copy games cause they don't know better and some
even download warez thinking they are "really" demos, they see friends
doing it and they imitate, so we need to show them the proper way

communication - we need to communicate with the publishers and tell them
we don't want and will not except things that will damage our consumer
rights, and we also need to hear from the publishers what problems do
they face so we together can come out with better solutions than the
introduction of cd copy protections that make the pc game experience
much less enjoyable

so what you and everyone in this group feel about this?

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html

More about : proposal group fighting piracy

Anonymous
February 19, 2005 4:19:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

As what would be considered an average user of computer game, I am by no
means elite.

What does this offer me. How does this benefit me.

Anyone who thinks that getting rid of piracy will reduce prices is a fool,
nothing more, nothing less. The market will set the prices for software,
companies will charge what people are willing to pay. That is economics 101
folks. As it stands right now, piracy as bad as it is , is competition for
legal sales. It helps keep the price down, the notion that piracy causes
high prices is laughable at best, pathetic at worst. Sure , companies
allegedly lose billions every year to piracy (I say allegedly because those
numbers are highly dubious and can and are manipulated in a multitude of
way) but would them having these sales really reduce prices, hardly. Look at
console, far less piracy, games are about the same prices or more. Though
console game makers pay a premium, they also have far less testing
requirements, don't have to worry about mulitple configs to run their games
on and have MANY more sales per title on average.
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 4:52:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:kjsd11pib69e0hn3bgljtq85tua6j20s4a@4ax.com:

> awareness - make pc gamers conscious of the damage piracy does to games
> and make them actively protect the thing they like the most. there are
> still pc gamers that copy games cause they don't know better and some
> even download warez thinking they are "really" demos, they see friends
> doing it and they imitate, so we need to show them the proper way

Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot
of effort into things like high profile court cases against the average
user who rips them off. Not because that one case makes a dent but
because it gets the word out that what the average user does can, and
will, be considered a criminal act. That information alone has much
power.

They also will charge to the attack of anything which crosses the line
without making it clear. Thats why people wonder why Napster gets hit
instead of sites which clearly say that they are offering stolen stuff.
Because Napster made it possible to cross the line without knowing it,
therefore was doing more damage.

So jumping on any comments like "thats what these newsgroups are for", or
"everyone does it", or "they dont really care", or "its not a warez site
its (abandoneware, backups, full demos, a way to try before buying)" is
one way that these groups really can make a difference.

Gandalf Parker
-- "... for if we do not police ourselves then you can bet that someone
is going to step in and police us which is NEVER preferable."
Related resources
Anonymous
February 19, 2005 7:40:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2steam" wrote
> > What do you see the group doing that would help fight piracy?

We need to fight porn piracy. Americans spend $10 billion a year on porn,
that's about ten times more than they spend on PC games. Clearly, it's a
more important issue. We need to support hard working actors like Buttman
and Dick Rambone. If we don't pay for our porn, companies will go belly up,
and all we'll be left with is cheap home videos of actresses that can't
afford breast implants. Don't let this happen.
FIGHT PORN PIRACY!
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 12:18:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Gandalf Parker" <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in message
news:Xns96023BC14BAgandalfparker@208.201.224.154...
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:kjsd11pib69e0hn3bgljtq85tua6j20s4a@4ax.com:
>
> > awareness - make pc gamers conscious of the damage piracy does to games
> > and make them actively protect the thing they like the most. there are
> > still pc gamers that copy games cause they don't know better and some
> > even download warez thinking they are "really" demos, they see friends
> > doing it and they imitate, so we need to show them the proper way
>
> Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
> cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot
> of effort into things like high profile court cases against the average
> user who rips them off. Not because that one case makes a dent but
> because it gets the word out that what the average user does can, and
> will, be considered a criminal act. That information alone has much
> power.
>
> They also will charge to the attack of anything which crosses the line
> without making it clear. Thats why people wonder why Napster gets hit
> instead of sites which clearly say that they are offering stolen stuff.
> Because Napster made it possible to cross the line without knowing it,
> therefore was doing more damage.
>
> So jumping on any comments like "thats what these newsgroups are for", or
> "everyone does it", or "they dont really care", or "its not a warez site
> its (abandoneware, backups, full demos, a way to try before buying)" is
> one way that these groups really can make a difference.
>
> Gandalf Parker
> -- "... for if we do not police ourselves then you can bet that someone
> is going to step in and police us which is NEVER preferable."

I got to thinking of this about this the other day. (which you all know
that I hate to do cause it gives me a headache)

In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log onto
Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he had d/l
every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top 100 songs for
each year,starting with 1958.

It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster (or
other like programs), then the users, along with providing consumer
information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that things started
to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the fact that they
started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l music for a fee.
(but dang! that sounds like Steam.)

However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA does
it?
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 12:18:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:V2ORd.12236$cW2.7389@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I got to thinking of this about this the other day. (which you all know
> that I hate to do cause it gives me a headache)
>
> In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log onto
> Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he had d/l
> every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top 100 songs for
> each year,starting with 1958.
>
> It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster (or
> other like programs), then the users, along with providing consumer
> information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that things
> started
> to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the fact that they
> started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l music for a fee.
> (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
>
> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> does
> it?
>
>

So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 1:49:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> once tried to test me with:

> It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster
> (or other like programs), then the users, along with providing
> consumer information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that
> things started to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the
> fact that they started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l
> music for a fee. (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
>
> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> does it?

You've never heard of the Business Software Alliance?
http://www.bsa.org/

The Software & Information Industry Association? -- formerly the Software
Publishers Association (SPA)
http://www.siia.net

Or am I missing the sarcasm here?

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:12:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in
news:V2ORd.12236$cW2.7389@fe2.texas.rr.com:

> In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log
> onto Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he
> had d/l every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top
> 100 songs for each year,starting with 1958.
>
> It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster
> (or other like programs), then the users, along with providing
> consumer information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that
> things started to change. At least in my tiny world.

Ive seen it in many groups. They are quite willing to take what they can
get but if it suddenly becomes plainly marked as stolen goods then they
quit.

Another thing your post brought to mind is all of the times I would
mention that its illegal and had to listen to "they dont go after regular
people" or "they cant tell that its me doing it". I always responded with
"not yet". Now I think everyones getting the clue that both of those are
wrong as far as music and warez. But I hear it about things like
anonymous posting or phishing or porn. People need to realize that..
(A) illegal is illegal
(B) the net tracks everything
(C) the net has a long memory
(D) you should always follow "they" statements with "not yet"

> Oh, and the
> fact that they started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l
> music for a fee. (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)

Ive heard alot of users complain that more companies should offer direct
download of games but there are a lot of problems with that still. Yet
someone comes up with a way which might make it work, and they whine.

> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> does it?

Actually they do. Some fairly effective groups. Just not as newsworthy in
the "real world" media.

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:14:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in
news:vkORd.35867$4I5.1581294@news20.bellglobal.com:

> "sayNO2steam" wrote
>> > What do you see the group doing that would help fight piracy?
>
> We need to fight porn piracy. Americans spend $10 billion a year on
> porn, that's about ten times more than they spend on PC games.

Not so funny to me. Its a major damage to the existence of newsgroups, and
everyones ability to surf the net

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:26:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> Spake Unto All:

>nothing more, nothing less. The market will set the prices for software,
>companies will charge what people are willing to pay. That is economics 101
>folks. As it stands right now, piracy as bad as it is , is competition for
>legal sales. It helps keep the price down, the notion that piracy causes
>high prices is laughable at best, pathetic at worst.

This is true.

Now, according to economics 101, how should a company behave:
* keep producing PC games and turning a loss or low profit, or
* switch to producing console games, meaning less support and
considerably, frequently order-of-magnitude, higher profit?

That's the issue. PC games are already typically 30-50% cheaper than
console games, for exactly the reason you give, but can only become
cheaper by being by being produced more cheaply. Ie, forget those big
production values.

The market has already answered this question: companies now produce
games for consoles, and occasionally one of those games is ported to
PC, more or less as an afterthought. After all, the development cost
rests mainly on the profitable console versin, and whatever money the
game makes on the PC market is pretty much profit.
Also the games are released on the PC a good time AFTER release on the
console, as otherwise the rampant PC piracy would hurt the more
important console market.
Result: sub-optimal (wrt hardware utilization) games aimed at the
console demographic.

So - is a PC gaming market consisting of MMOGs and ports of
one-year-old console games desirable? Is it a *good thing*?
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:52:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:

>> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
>> does it?
>
> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers

Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:52:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9602C0080CE22knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>>> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
>>> does it?
>>
>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>
> Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.
>
> --
>
> Knight37
>
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
piracy group would help us as consumers
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:52:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

>Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
>piracy group would help us as consumers

*shrug*

The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.

C//
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:52:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:29:23 -0500, "CounterStrikeJunkie"
<uioc@hotel6.com> wrote:

>Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
>piracy group would help us as consumers

It would help us know which game companies to avoid.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:52:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Courageous" wrote
> The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
> enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
> to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.

Pirates are leeching off leeches.
All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 5:32:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:

>
> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9602C0080CE22knight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>>> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
>>>> does it?
>>>
>>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>>
>> Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.

>> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
> Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
> piracy group would help us as consumers

Only indirectly. If game companies make more money from a supposed lack or
lessening of piracy, then more of them stay in business, and so hopefully
we see companies that make decent games but are not making quite enough
money stay in business to give us more choice in the games we play.

Or the extra money could go to line a fat investor's fat wallet.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 7:18:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> wrote in message
news:M7RRd.664$sz5.169@fe62.usenetserver.com...
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:V2ORd.12236$cW2.7389@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > I got to thinking of this about this the other day. (which you all
know
> > that I hate to do cause it gives me a headache)
> >
> > In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log
onto
> > Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he had
d/l
> > every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top 100 songs
for
> > each year,starting with 1958.
> >
> > It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster (or
> > other like programs), then the users, along with providing consumer
> > information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that things
> > started
> > to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the fact that they
> > started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l music for a fee.
> > (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
> >
> > However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> > does
> > it?
> >
> >
>
> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>
>
>

Well in my tiny world, I saw where people stopped using Napster after RIAA
went after the users. Going after Napster, Gazzilla, ... didn't do much
except cause my friends to change software. Also, some people finally
started to realize after all the info/ads that it was just wrong to
illegally d/l music.

As one person reminded me, there is the SPA, but I couldn't tell you much
about what they're doing since I don't hear about them in the news. Maybe
when they haul the first 8 year old into court they'll make HeadLine News?
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:23:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:D cURd.15041$911.11617@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well in my tiny world, I saw where people stopped using Napster after RIAA
> went after the users. Going after Napster, Gazzilla, ... didn't do much
> except cause my friends to change software. Also, some people finally
> started to realize after all the info/ads that it was just wrong to
> illegally d/l music.
>
> As one person reminded me, there is the SPA, but I couldn't tell you much
> about what they're doing since I don't hear about them in the news.
> Maybe
> when they haul the first 8 year old into court they'll make HeadLine News?
>
>

While your post didn't quite rise to the level of a decent diatribe, it also
didn't answer the question.

You are simply spouting RIAA like propaganda.

I will ask again.

How will the creation of this anti piracy group, help us consumers.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:29:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

>Your analogy doesn't hold water at all, ...

It /does/ hold water, you're just playing with the tail too much.

>Please give me a break. Economics 101, the market sets the price, software
>companies will charge what people are willing to pay, plain and simple.

The converse is also true. If not enough customers assemble themselves,
the supplier won't produce what is supplied.

C//
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 12:59:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in message
news:YASRd.21767$dZ.909500@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Courageous" wrote
> > The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
> > enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
> > to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
>
> Pirates are leeching off leeches.
> All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
> everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
> anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.

It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
version first.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 2:33:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> Spake Unto All:

>>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>>
>> Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.

>Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
>piracy group would help us as consumers

Much as one, by reading some people here, would think there is a
necessary opposition between the interest of game companies and the
interest of consumers.

I am interested in get new good high-budget games which take full
advantage of my hardware. Hence it is in my interest that game
companies make sufficient money to develop new, good, high-budget
games. Hence it is in my interest to destroy piracy.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 2:33:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> Spake Unto All:

>> The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
>> enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
>> to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
>
>Pirates are leeching off leeches.

HAHAHAHA! Yeah, they're striking a blow for the poor oppressed gamer!

Come on - the only reason anyone is a pirate is because they're cheap.
There's no revolutionary piratic underground for the liberation of the
gaming masses, though pirates try to justify piracy by claiming so.

It's very easy: do you want more new games developed for the PC? Then
you don't want piracy.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:25:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:

> Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
> cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot

thank you for giving me credit, but unfortunately i feel very lonely in
this fight against piracy in pc games
we see every week a pirate thief coming to this group bragging about he
stealing and robing and being a thief and nobody does anything about it

i'm starting to think there is no "community" spirit in pc games... and
pc gamers really don't care if they play games on a console, on a mobile
or any other device...
i'm really not like that... i'm devoted to pc games, i'm very loyal to
pc games, and never betray pc games by playing games in other platforms
unfortunately i feel not many pc gamers are like myself

this is not telling i'm better than any other pc gamer, but i feel if
every pc gamer was like me... things would be much better
sorry if i'm being pretentious, but i'm really disappointed with all the
other pc gamers out there

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ce2h11dqu3kfobkeonnbjmbqfgoaj2kp7k@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:
>
>> Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
>> cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot
>
> thank you for giving me credit, but unfortunately i feel very lonely in
> this fight against piracy in pc games
> we see every week a pirate thief coming to this group bragging about he
> stealing and robing and being a thief and nobody does anything about it
>
> i'm starting to think there is no "community" spirit in pc games... and
> pc gamers really don't care if they play games on a console, on a mobile
> or any other device...
> i'm really not like that... i'm devoted to pc games, i'm very loyal to
> pc games, and never betray pc games by playing games in other platforms
> unfortunately i feel not many pc gamers are like myself
>
> this is not telling i'm better than any other pc gamer, but i feel if
> every pc gamer was like me... things would be much better
> sorry if i'm being pretentious, but i'm really disappointed with all the
> other pc gamers out there
>
> --
> support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
> be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward

You still haven't explained how this group will reduce prices for the gaming
consumer.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:25:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:

> Another thing your post brought to mind is all of the times I would
> mention that its illegal and had to listen to "they dont go after regular
> people" or "they cant tell that its me doing it". I always responded with
> "not yet". Now I think everyones getting the clue that both of those are

i don't have any problem saying this, i would very happily help any pc
gamer find a pc game he wants for the best price being it NEW or in the
2nd hand market, but for those who are thieves i would LOVE to see them
being PROSECUTED AND SUED!
COMPLETE ZERO TOLERANCE FOR PIRATE THIEVES IN PC GAMES!

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:25:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, "CounterStrikeJunkie" wrote:

fighting piracy is not about price! its about survival!

for me pc games are cheap!
its my opinion! i have a small budget for games and i manage to
buy most if not even all the pc games i want
let this be said once and for all: PC GAMES ARE CHEAP!
anyone saying pc games are expensive is lying!

and about fighting piracy... its not about price cause the price is
right! its just to save pc games!
the pc game market has been shrinking each year!
pc game market has been deteriorating! its an evidence!
and we know pcs are not less than consoles, so why this? its piracy!
if we want pc games to survive fight piracy!
that's what fighting piracy is all about saving pc games!
i don't need lower price in pc games cause the price is right!
just fight piracy so we will still have pc games being released in the
many years to come!

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:25:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8t2h1194f5ds1ngo2b3tda556tbde5m6jv@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, "CounterStrikeJunkie" wrote:
>
> fighting piracy is not about price! its about survival!
>
> for me pc games are cheap!
> its my opinion! i have a small budget for games and i manage to
> buy most if not even all the pc games i want
> let this be said once and for all: PC GAMES ARE CHEAP!
> anyone saying pc games are expensive is lying!
>
> and about fighting piracy... its not about price cause the price is
> right! its just to save pc games!
> the pc game market has been shrinking each year!
> pc game market has been deteriorating! its an evidence!
> and we know pcs are not less than consoles, so why this? its piracy!
> if we want pc games to survive fight piracy!
> that's what fighting piracy is all about saving pc games!
> i don't need lower price in pc games cause the price is right!
> just fight piracy so we will still have pc games being released in the
> many years to come!
>
> --
> support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
> be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward

Price is very important , don't dismiss it like it is nothing. To alot of
people price is very important. Can you provide something more then
hyperbole that supports your theory that reducing piracy will increase PC
games on the market. Are you short of games to play in your genre of choice.
Since you are in an FPS group, I have to assume that you are into FPS games.
Right now, we have Farcry, HL2, Doom3, UT, UT2k3, UT2k4, need I go on. There
are tons of great games to play in every single genre.

Did you ever stop to think that the reason PC games are shrining is because
of the console. Did you ever stop to think that alot of gamers simply don't
feel they should have the need to have a computer programming (exageration)
degree to install and play the latest PC game. Did you ever stop to think
that the quality of games coming out is low and that they are extremely
buggy. AND this is why there are fewer and fewer games.

The console market also has a large piracy problem, yet it seems that market
is growing, this throws in the face of your theory that piracy is destroying
the pc game market.

Is PIRACY as good thing, NO ,definately no, but this chicken little attitude
you have that piracy is the root of all evil in pc gaming simply doesn't
hold water when held up to the light of what is available.

BTW, you made t he statement that 'we know that pcs are not less than
console'. Where did you get that statistic from. Are you aware that the
technology level required for the latest games is WAY out reach for alot of
gamers yet the $200 Xbox/PS2 console is more in the price range for the
average gamer.

If piracy is so great , how do you explain the millions of copies of Halo2,
or how about the millions of copies of HL2, THOSE are quality games and
people will buy them.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:31:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"James A. Cooley" <jacooley@centralpets.com> wrote in message
news:vs4Sd.27236$Bx5.17959@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> You have constructed a straw man here. You state as fact that software
> rices have not risen -- yet the evidence of my own eyes tells me
> otherwise. Name just one game that had a $50+ retail asking price four
> years ago? Now look on the shelves and see how many there are today.
>

OK, when I bought HL1, it was $55 on the shelf.

When I bought original OFP, which was just under 4 years ago, it was $62.95.

Original UT on the shelf here was $66.95 at local software store here when I
bought it

Do you want more. I can see if I can find more of my original game boxes
from back then

I just bought Joint Operations last year (2004) it was $49.95 first day

Farcry last year was also $49.99

In fact most titles at my local EB are $49.99

with HL2 being the exception, at $59.99 that I have purchased
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 4:53:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Mean_Chlorine" wrote
> >Pirates are leeching off leeches.
>
> HAHAHAHA! Yeah, they're striking a blow for the poor oppressed gamer!

The point flew right over your head as usual. I was talking about the
environmental damage of all gamers. When you upgrade your computer just to
get faster frame rates, you cover the monetary cost, but not the
environmental cost of the thousands of pounds of chemicals used to
manufacture your computer. Third world countries bare the weight of our
excessive consumption, to which we export 20 million tons of hazardous waste
annually. We enjoy the luxury of using up excessive natural resources that
would have devastating consequences if everyone consumed at the rate we do,
hence, the same analogy of the leech works.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 6:10:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

sayNO2piracy <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:ce2h11dqu3kfobkeonnbjmbqfgoaj2kp7k@4ax.com:

> we see every week a pirate thief coming to this group bragging about he
> stealing and robing and being a thief and nobody does anything about it


Really? Which groups are these?

The groups Im in tend to reply with:

"wrong group. This is the group for people who LIKE games"

"were you looking for the cracks/warez group? the thieves hang out there"

"did you realize that you posted with no anonymity at all into a
newsgroup which is achived forever and asked for support of an illegal
act which can get you ToS'd off of your ISP?"

That last one is funny since so many think that a free email account
somewhere is adequate hiding of their ISP. No concept of hidden headers
in their post. As a sysadmin I have no problem with letting an ISP know
what one of their users is doing and letting them decide what to do about
it. Its more effective than you think.

But my point is that even if you dont choose to ACTIVELY do something
about it, just speaking up with abit of disgust can do alot. Clear up the
"I thought everyone on the net did this" type of thinking.

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 6:22:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> wrote in
news:2R0Sd.248$pK3.84@fe46.usenetserver.com:

> The console market also has a large piracy problem, yet it seems that
> market is growing, this throws in the face of your theory that piracy
> is destroying the pc game market.

Actually thats just a customer-side impression and has more to do with the
way retail chains accept items for sale than anything else.

However, the "piracy" small bit of THAT particular subject does come into
play in that retails prefer console games because they match the stores
return policies. PC games cannot match the return policies

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:03:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> wrote in
news:w23Sd.9102$be2.781@fe55.usenetserver.com:


> As a consumer yes it is the only justification for slapping piracy.
> What else is there.

Honorable response? Abit paladin for some but it is a recognizeable
reason for some. Choosing sides. For or against.

> If companies go by the wayside because of piracy (or because they
> can't compete in the market place) then so be it.

I can acknowledge that attitude. I dont agree with it but Im just as hard
hearted in other areas so I can acknowledge it.

> It is great that others are acting for reason other than personal
> gain, nothing at all wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong
> with acting for personal gain.

Agreed.

> It doesn't matter if I am homeless and earning nothing or if I am a
> billionaire. I will make efforts to pay as little for a product as
> possible. When I go to a car dealer to buy a car, I don't pay the
> sticker price, I negotiate to lower the price. I don't feel at all
> guilty either if I get a good deal.

Not a problem. So if you someone talks about stealing a car, or you
actually see it happening, then you will do nothing unless it can be
shown to be monetarily beneficial to you? You would ask "is there a
reward?" (which is not a problem since Im led to understand that many
people are that way)

> Have you ever purchased a used game, a discounted game or purchased a
> game from a rental store at a greatly reduce price. Did you then turn
> around and send the publisher the difference in price to make up for
> the fact that you saved some money by purchasing from that store ,
> instead of a regular retail outlet.

I have. I have also purposely avoided doing so for other games where I
felt particularly interested in giving the author as much benefit as
possible. I do understand that such a choice has alot to do with buying
from more than just whats on the shelf at some impersonal national retail
chain. Its usually been games where I have had the privilege of meeting
the developers here in these newsgroups and seeing that they truly care
about their product and the people using them.

I also accept the fact that any second-hand or discount purchase carries
with it certain disadvantages as far as gauranteed liscense and support.
If its important to me that I hold clear ownership then I have no problem
purchasing it thru the proper channels for the full amount. The
difference in price is for the difference in what I am getting.

Gandalf Parker
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:10:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> Spake Unto All:

>You still haven't explained how this group will reduce prices for the gaming
>consumer.

It wont, as games are quite expensive to develop and PC game prices
are already pressed. Increased profitability would go first to
increased output, then to increased production value, rather than
further reduced price.

In other words, reduced piracy = increased choice, but no effect on
price. Possibly the price might even rise somewhat, although probably
not quite to the level of console games.

You'll never, ever, get cheaper games than through piracy, so arguing
that lower price would help against piracy is pointless.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:20:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:111hcuckishhj01@news.supernews.com...
>
> "The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in message
> news:YASRd.21767$dZ.909500@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> "Courageous" wrote
>> > The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
>> > enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
>> > to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
>>
>> Pirates are leeching off leeches.
>> All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
>> everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
>> anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.
>
> It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
> remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
> wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
> version first.
>

The morality of the person doing the downloading is that of a thief -- in
that they are committing an act of theft. And, sure, I believe that LOTS of
people play a game through to the very end for free and then run out and buy
one off the shelf.

You can legally demo a game. Downloading all of from a warez site is theft.
It is a crime committed against the people that created the game.

I made a living prodocing copyrighted materials and had to protect my work a
couple of times. You copy it and send it along for free, it was real cash
taken out of my family's piggy-bank.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 9:20:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"James A. Cooley" <jacooley@centralpets.com> wrote in message
news:Xx4Sd.27237$Bx5.23964@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> The morality of the person doing the downloading is that of a thief -- in
> that they are committing an act of theft. And, sure, I believe that LOTS
> of people play a game through to the very end for free and then run out
> and buy one off the shelf.
>
> You can legally demo a game. Downloading all of from a warez site is
> theft. It is a crime committed against the people that created the game.
>
> I made a living prodocing copyrighted materials and had to protect my work
> a couple of times. You copy it and send it along for free, it was real
> cash taken out of my family's piggy-bank.
>

It is NOT real cash taken out of your pocket.

Did you lose a sale, maybe yes, maybe no, but it isn't real cash.

It isn't theft, it is copyright infringement.

It isn't any more right or wrong than theft but there is a difference. The
difference is , in theft your use of the item is removed or your possibilty
of sale is removed, not so when a copy is made. It isn't more right or but
it is different.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:08:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cvavtg$bmu$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

> the publisher don't get any less for that game its the retail store who
> get less for it and even then they probably still make a profit on it,
> shops put a vast markup on goods
>
> --
>
>
> You're not a God, you're a birthday cake!
>
>

Not always, sometimes big stores like EB get a discount because of volume,
my point was that did they go out and find the most expensive store, or
perhaps get it directly from the publishers, not likely

It always call BULLSHIT when I see some guy claim he bought multiple copies
(not for multiple computers) just to 'vote' for the dev/pub.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 7:57:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9602AB23EBDA1knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> once tried to test me with:
>
> > It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster
> > (or other like programs), then the users, along with providing
> > consumer information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that
> > things started to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the
> > fact that they started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l
> > music for a fee. (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
> >
> > However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> > does it?
>
> You've never heard of the Business Software Alliance?
> http://www.bsa.org/
>
> The Software & Information Industry Association? -- formerly the Software
> Publishers Association (SPA)
> http://www.siia.net
>
> Or am I missing the sarcasm here?

No sarcasm meant.

SPA! And I've actually heard of them. But honestly I just haven't heard
much from them lately and forgot all about them. Do they do ads on
TV-radio similar to what the RIAA has done? Have they taken any 12 year
olds to court like RIAA?


ps thanks for reminding this OldDog about the two associations above.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 8:17:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> wrote in message
news:xj%Rd.19776$U_1.5273@fe13.usenetserver.com...
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:D cURd.15041$911.11617@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> >> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
> >>
> > Well in my tiny world, I saw where people stopped using Napster after
RIAA
> > went after the users. Going after Napster, Gazzilla, ... didn't do
much
> > except cause my friends to change software. Also, some people finally
> > started to realize after all the info/ads that it was just wrong to
> > illegally d/l music.
> >
> > As one person reminded me, there is the SPA, but I couldn't tell you
much
> > about what they're doing since I don't hear about them in the news.
Maybe
> > when they haul the first 8 year old into court they'll make HeadLine
News?
> >
> >
>
> While your post didn't quite rise to the level of a decent diatribe, it
also
> didn't answer the question.
>

Sorry, but I'm not trying to reach that level in my writing. I'm lucky if
I can keep my adjectives away from the verbs and the adverbs away from
dangling modifiers.

> You are simply spouting RIAA like propaganda.

Spouting RIAA propaganda would be,

1. D/L music is illegal
2. Doing this harms the many people involved in the music industry
3. ...

However if my "story" sounds like propaganda to you, well then sometimes
life is like that.


>
> I will ask again.
>
> How will the creation of this anti piracy group, help us consumers.
>

First, I'm not the one proposing this anti-piracy group.

Second, I just added what I saw in my tiny corner of the global as to impact
RIAA had on the people around me. Has the RIAA had an impact on the US or
global piracy of music? For that, someone would have to look at the
numbers and do some analysis. If they were successful, then maybe the SPA
could attempt something similar.

It might include setting up an anti-piracy group that:

1. exchanges comments/suggests
2. provides information on legal issues surrounding software
3. provides users with hotline where they can turn in their friends/family
members for reward (papa needs a new computer game!)
4. ....

However, these are just random thoughts on my part. I'm no expert, and I'm
sure the developers/publishers have spent man/years on this. And finally,
does any of this help the consumers? Tricky since most of the above could
be argue to only help the developer. doh!

So I'll spin the wheel, buy a vowel, and say that none of this helps the
consumers.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 8:32:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1hdh11tae2c5u4fpp3tt0om1oqsn54suld@4ax.com...
> Thusly "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> Spake Unto All:
>
> >You still haven't explained how this group will reduce prices for the
gaming
> >consumer.
>
> It wont, as games are quite expensive to develop and PC game prices
> are already pressed. Increased profitability would go first to
> increased output, then to increased production value, rather than
> further reduced price.
>
> In other words, reduced piracy = increased choice, but no effect on
> price. Possibly the price might even rise somewhat, although probably
> not quite to the level of console games.
>
> You'll never, ever, get cheaper games than through piracy, so arguing
> that lower price would help against piracy is pointless.
>

Good point. I read once where a guy was at a LAN party, and that someone
wanted to copy Serious Sam because he thought the game was so cool. The
guy told him to just go buy it since it was only $20. Went in one ear
and out the other.

However, there probably is a price point where most folks would give up
piracy and switch to buying. But that might be like $1.25?
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 8:39:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:111hcuckishhj01@news.supernews.com...
>
> "The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in message
> news:YASRd.21767$dZ.909500@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > "Courageous" wrote
> > > The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were
everyone
> > > enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have
anything
> > > to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
> >
> > Pirates are leeching off leeches.
> > All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
> > everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
> > anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.
>
> It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
> remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
> wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
> version first.
>
>

There's folks that wouldn't have bought loads of games if they hadn't tried
the warez vs playing with a demo for 30mins?

note: while I admit that a "few" demos are of limited use, in general most
provide an adequate reflection of the final game.
February 21, 2005 9:38:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

OldDog wrote:
> "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
> news:111hcuckishhj01@news.supernews.com...
>
>>"The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in message
>>news:YASRd.21767$dZ.909500@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>
>>>"Courageous" wrote
>>>
>>>>The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were
>
> everyone
>
>>>>enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have
>
> anything
>
>>>>to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
>>>
>>>Pirates are leeching off leeches.
>>>All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
>>>everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
>>>anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.
>>
>>It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
>>remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
>>wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
>>version first.
>>
>>
>
>
> There's folks that wouldn't have bought loads of games if they hadn't tried
> the warez vs playing with a demo for 30mins?
>
> note: while I admit that a "few" demos are of limited use, in general most
> provide an adequate reflection of the final game.
>
>

Only d-loaded a warez game once. It had been released in the States and
everyone on these groups were raving about it. I'm in the UK and it
wasn't being released for another week or two. I had it on pre-order
but really couldn't wait. As soon as my retail copy arrived (a week
later) I deleted the warez version. I think Co's are learning now to
release games worldwide at the same time which has cured *my* version of
piracy. BTW - the demo came out a long time after the game. Demo's
ought to come out before perhaps?

--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"

Bertrand Russell
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 12:56:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"James A. Cooley" <jacooley@centralpets.com> wrote in message
news:Xx4Sd.27237$Bx5.23964@fe1.texas.rr.com...

> > It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
> > remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
> > wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
> > version first.
> The morality of the person doing the downloading is that of a thief -- in
> that they are committing an act of theft. And, sure, I believe that LOTS
of
> people play a game through to the very end for free and then run out and
buy
> one off the shelf.
>
> You can legally demo a game. Downloading all of from a warez site is
theft.
> It is a crime committed against the people that created the game.
>
> I made a living prodocing copyrighted materials and had to protect my work
a
> couple of times. You copy it and send it along for free, it was real cash
> taken out of my family's piggy-bank.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I couldn't care less what's
"legal" or "illegal".These days all you can do is buy a license to "use" the
software. What does it matter where you get the media from?

If somebody downloads a warez copy of a game, then proceeds to go out and
buy it - and would never have bought it had he not been able to download it
first - how is that person a "thief"?

The duplication of 1s and 0s is not "theft" nor is it "real cash taken out
of your family's piggy bank". You have failed to see the bigger picture.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 1:01:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:5ueSd.21650$cW2.9699@fe2.texas.rr.com...

> There's folks that wouldn't have bought loads of games if they hadn't
tried
> the warez vs playing with a demo for 30mins?
>
> note: while I admit that a "few" demos are of limited use, in general
most
> provide an adequate reflection of the final game.

I find that most demos are of limited use. They are more often than not
betas or otherwise not representative of the finished product.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 2:58:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, "CounterStrikeJunkie" wrote:

> You still haven't explained how this group will reduce prices for
> the gaming consumer.

didn't i tell you before i don't believe pc games are expensive!
for me there isn't a issue with pc game pricing
pc games have the RIGHT price
you can buy pc games as low as 10 or 5 bucks, you simply can't ask
to be any lower!
isn't 10 bucks cheap? obviously its a great price to pay!

in another post you give example of games released in 2004 with
prices about the 40 bucks range... but that kind of pricing is for
games just released
we all know that for the just released pc games, the price is in
most cases above the 30/40 bucks range... its normal
the important thing is 6 months later those games become available
with prices less than 20 bucks
everyone knows that you must be patient and wait for prices to
drop so you can buy pc games in a more favorable price

i personally never buy pc games at release and i always wait

you talk about farcry... i already saw it being sold at less than
20 bucks... and you also talk about ut2004 and for that it did see
it with a bargain price of less than 15 bucks
so as you see, all 2004 games will drop price... just give it some
time... can't you wait a little to play?
be patient!
patience is a virtue!
be patient, do your homework, don't buy pc games always at the
same place, and search for the best deal you can find and you bet
you will get all those great games for a great price!

as for the group objective...
didn't you read my other post about an article stating as a fact
cause you can't argue with number that pc games have been year
after year declining
i believe it has to do with piracy
the pc is a better machine than any current console
pc games are cheaper than any games for consoles
there are more pcs than all the consoles together
and with some very few exceptions installing and playing pc games
are easy and accessible
so why the decline?
piracy!
its all about piracy!
so fight piracy to save pc games from the continuous decline!

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 2:58:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hr9j119glaoi4r7uk77hrkk3ij0j7a63cq@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, "CounterStrikeJunkie" wrote:
>
>> You still haven't explained how this group will reduce prices for
>> the gaming consumer.
>
> didn't i tell you before i don't believe pc games are expensive!
> for me there isn't a issue with pc game pricing
> pc games have the RIGHT price
> you can buy pc games as low as 10 or 5 bucks, you simply can't ask
> to be any lower!
> isn't 10 bucks cheap? obviously its a great price to pay!
>
> in another post you give example of games released in 2004 with
> prices about the 40 bucks range... but that kind of pricing is for
> games just released
> we all know that for the just released pc games, the price is in
> most cases above the 30/40 bucks range... its normal
> the important thing is 6 months later those games become available
> with prices less than 20 bucks
> everyone knows that you must be patient and wait for prices to
> drop so you can buy pc games in a more favorable price
>
> i personally never buy pc games at release and i always wait
>
> you talk about farcry... i already saw it being sold at less than
> 20 bucks... and you also talk about ut2004 and for that it did see
> it with a bargain price of less than 15 bucks
> so as you see, all 2004 games will drop price... just give it some
> time... can't you wait a little to play?
> be patient!
> patience is a virtue!
> be patient, do your homework, don't buy pc games always at the
> same place, and search for the best deal you can find and you bet
> you will get all those great games for a great price!
>

So then , you are part of the problem, because just like the pirates you are
paying less than the full retail price (notice I put FULL RETAIL PRICE), in
the case of the pirate they are paying nothing, but according to your own
posts you are waiting till they get to $10, which is approx 1/3 of the
price. You too are ripping of the publishers.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 2:58:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:

> But my point is that even if you dont choose to ACTIVELY do something
> about it, just speaking up with abit of disgust can do alot. Clear up the
> "I thought everyone on the net did this" type of thinking.

yes you are right, its not good being negative and it doesn't help
i wrote that just cause i was in a down mod after i read some very
disturbing posts from this thread
http://www.talkaboutcomputing.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc...

i hope those don't reflect the main regular pc gamer
it really makes me sad seeing someone defending piracy and warez

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 8:22:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Kroagnon wrote:
>
> The duplication of 1s and 0s is not "theft" nor is it "real cash taken out
> of your family's piggy bank". You have failed to see the bigger picture.
>

So digitized information about credit cards, private medical problems,
music etc can also be pirated? You can download a load of 1s and 0s that
make up Oracle RDBMS and this is not stealing?

You are so clueless as to be bordering on insane.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 8:23:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Kroagnon wrote:
>
> I find that most demos are of limited use. They are more often than not
> betas or otherwise not representative of the finished product.
>

I find exactly the opposite. A Demo is a sample of the full product and
gives you an idea of what to expect. Hey! Maybe thats why its called a
"demo"? <shrug> I dunno....
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 1:52:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:111k1d2o1o90u45@news.supernews.com...
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:5ueSd.21650$cW2.9699@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> > There's folks that wouldn't have bought loads of games if they hadn't
> tried
> > the warez vs playing with a demo for 30mins?
> >
> > note: while I admit that a "few" demos are of limited use, in general
> most
> > provide an adequate reflection of the final game.
>
> I find that most demos are of limited use. They are more often than not
> betas or otherwise not representative of the finished product.
>
>

Most demos don't represent the finished product? What are some recent
examples of this?

As to being a beta, even a beta should give you a warm fuzzy for the game.
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 1:58:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:111k152pcrb4238@news.supernews.com...
>
> "James A. Cooley" <jacooley@centralpets.com> wrote in message
> news:Xx4Sd.27237$Bx5.23964@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
> > > It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
> > > remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
> > > wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
> > > version first.
> > The morality of the person doing the downloading is that of a thief --
in
> > that they are committing an act of theft. And, sure, I believe that LOTS
> of
> > people play a game through to the very end for free and then run out and
> buy
> > one off the shelf.
> >
> > You can legally demo a game. Downloading all of from a warez site is
> theft.
> > It is a crime committed against the people that created the game.
> >
> > I made a living prodocing copyrighted materials and had to protect my
work
> a
> > couple of times. You copy it and send it along for free, it was real
cash
> > taken out of my family's piggy-bank.
>
> You're not understanding what I'm saying. I couldn't care less what's
> "legal" or "illegal".These days all you can do is buy a license to "use"
the
> software. What does it matter where you get the media from?
>
> If somebody downloads a warez copy of a game, then proceeds to go out and
> buy it - and would never have bought it had he not been able to download
it
> first - how is that person a "thief"?
>
> The duplication of 1s and 0s is not "theft" nor is it "real cash taken out
> of your family's piggy bank". You have failed to see the bigger picture.
>
>

While you certainly might not feel that you are doing anything illegal, how
would the legal system in your country treat this? Anyone? Is it illegal
to d/l a copy of a software program.

I don't know that whether the courts would consider the fact that later you
went out and bought a copy.
!