proposal for group fighting piracy

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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, "OldDog" wrote:

> What do you see the group doing that would help fight piracy?

the only purpose of the group would be protecting pc games, only!
and for that i think we would need three main points:
.. information
.. awareness
.. communication

information - give to every pc gamer the information he needs to help
him find the best games at the best prices cause i believe if you have
the information and do your home work, you can buy your pc games at
great low prices. still many pc gamers think pc games are expensive
when in reality they are not

awareness - make pc gamers conscious of the damage piracy does to games
and make them actively protect the thing they like the most. there are
still pc gamers that copy games cause they don't know better and some
even download warez thinking they are "really" demos, they see friends
doing it and they imitate, so we need to show them the proper way

communication - we need to communicate with the publishers and tell them
we don't want and will not except things that will damage our consumer
rights, and we also need to hear from the publishers what problems do
they face so we together can come out with better solutions than the
introduction of cd copy protections that make the pc game experience
much less enjoyable

so what you and everyone in this group feel about this?

--
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As what would be considered an average user of computer game, I am by no
means elite.

What does this offer me. How does this benefit me.

Anyone who thinks that getting rid of piracy will reduce prices is a fool,
nothing more, nothing less. The market will set the prices for software,
companies will charge what people are willing to pay. That is economics 101
folks. As it stands right now, piracy as bad as it is , is competition for
legal sales. It helps keep the price down, the notion that piracy causes
high prices is laughable at best, pathetic at worst. Sure , companies
allegedly lose billions every year to piracy (I say allegedly because those
numbers are highly dubious and can and are manipulated in a multitude of
way) but would them having these sales really reduce prices, hardly. Look at
console, far less piracy, games are about the same prices or more. Though
console game makers pay a premium, they also have far less testing
requirements, don't have to worry about mulitple configs to run their games
on and have MANY more sales per title on average.

 

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sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:kjsd11pib69e0hn3bgljtq85tua6j20s4a@4ax.com:

> awareness - make pc gamers conscious of the damage piracy does to games
> and make them actively protect the thing they like the most. there are
> still pc gamers that copy games cause they don't know better and some
> even download warez thinking they are "really" demos, they see friends
> doing it and they imitate, so we need to show them the proper way

Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot
of effort into things like high profile court cases against the average
user who rips them off. Not because that one case makes a dent but
because it gets the word out that what the average user does can, and
will, be considered a criminal act. That information alone has much
power.

They also will charge to the attack of anything which crosses the line
without making it clear. Thats why people wonder why Napster gets hit
instead of sites which clearly say that they are offering stolen stuff.
Because Napster made it possible to cross the line without knowing it,
therefore was doing more damage.

So jumping on any comments like "thats what these newsgroups are for", or
"everyone does it", or "they dont really care", or "its not a warez site
its (abandoneware, backups, full demos, a way to try before buying)" is
one way that these groups really can make a difference.

Gandalf Parker
-- "... for if we do not police ourselves then you can bet that someone
is going to step in and police us which is NEVER preferable."

 

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"sayNO2steam" wrote
> > What do you see the group doing that would help fight piracy?

We need to fight porn piracy. Americans spend $10 billion a year on porn,
that's about ten times more than they spend on PC games. Clearly, it's a
more important issue. We need to support hard working actors like Buttman
and Dick Rambone. If we don't pay for our porn, companies will go belly up,
and all we'll be left with is cheap home videos of actresses that can't
afford breast implants. Don't let this happen.
FIGHT PORN PIRACY!

 

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"Gandalf Parker" <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in message
news:Xns96023BC14BAgandalfparker@208.201.224.154...
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:kjsd11pib69e0hn3bgljtq85tua6j20s4a@4ax.com:
>
> > awareness - make pc gamers conscious of the damage piracy does to games
> > and make them actively protect the thing they like the most. there are
> > still pc gamers that copy games cause they don't know better and some
> > even download warez thinking they are "really" demos, they see friends
> > doing it and they imitate, so we need to show them the proper way
>
> Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
> cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot
> of effort into things like high profile court cases against the average
> user who rips them off. Not because that one case makes a dent but
> because it gets the word out that what the average user does can, and
> will, be considered a criminal act. That information alone has much
> power.
>
> They also will charge to the attack of anything which crosses the line
> without making it clear. Thats why people wonder why Napster gets hit
> instead of sites which clearly say that they are offering stolen stuff.
> Because Napster made it possible to cross the line without knowing it,
> therefore was doing more damage.
>
> So jumping on any comments like "thats what these newsgroups are for", or
> "everyone does it", or "they dont really care", or "its not a warez site
> its (abandoneware, backups, full demos, a way to try before buying)" is
> one way that these groups really can make a difference.
>
> Gandalf Parker
> -- "... for if we do not police ourselves then you can bet that someone
> is going to step in and police us which is NEVER preferable."

I got to thinking of this about this the other day. (which you all know
that I hate to do cause it gives me a headache)

In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log onto
Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he had d/l
every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top 100 songs for
each year,starting with 1958.

It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster (or
other like programs), then the users, along with providing consumer
information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that things started
to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the fact that they
started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l music for a fee.
(but dang! that sounds like Steam.)

However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA does
it?

 

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"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:V2ORd.12236$cW2.7389@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I got to thinking of this about this the other day. (which you all know
> that I hate to do cause it gives me a headache)
>
> In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log onto
> Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he had d/l
> every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top 100 songs for
> each year,starting with 1958.
>
> It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster (or
> other like programs), then the users, along with providing consumer
> information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that things
> started
> to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the fact that they
> started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l music for a fee.
> (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
>
> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> does
> it?
>
>

So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers

 

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"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> once tried to test me with:

> It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster
> (or other like programs), then the users, along with providing
> consumer information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that
> things started to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the
> fact that they started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l
> music for a fee. (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
>
> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> does it?

You've never heard of the Business Software Alliance?
http://www.bsa.org/

The Software & Information Industry Association? -- formerly the Software
Publishers Association (SPA)
http://www.siia.net

Or am I missing the sarcasm here?

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

 

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"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in
news:V2ORd.12236$cW2.7389@fe2.texas.rr.com:

> In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log
> onto Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he
> had d/l every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top
> 100 songs for each year,starting with 1958.
>
> It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster
> (or other like programs), then the users, along with providing
> consumer information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that
> things started to change. At least in my tiny world.

Ive seen it in many groups. They are quite willing to take what they can
get but if it suddenly becomes plainly marked as stolen goods then they
quit.

Another thing your post brought to mind is all of the times I would
mention that its illegal and had to listen to "they dont go after regular
people" or "they cant tell that its me doing it". I always responded with
"not yet". Now I think everyones getting the clue that both of those are
wrong as far as music and warez. But I hear it about things like
anonymous posting or phishing or porn. People need to realize that..
(A) illegal is illegal
(B) the net tracks everything
(C) the net has a long memory
(D) you should always follow "they" statements with "not yet"

> Oh, and the
> fact that they started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l
> music for a fee. (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)

Ive heard alot of users complain that more companies should offer direct
download of games but there are a lot of problems with that still. Yet
someone comes up with a way which might make it work, and they whine.

> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> does it?

Actually they do. Some fairly effective groups. Just not as newsworthy in
the "real world" media.

Gandalf Parker

 

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"The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in
news:vkORd.35867$4I5.1581294@news20.bellglobal.com:

> "sayNO2steam" wrote
>> > What do you see the group doing that would help fight piracy?
>
> We need to fight porn piracy. Americans spend $10 billion a year on
> porn, that's about ten times more than they spend on PC games.

Not so funny to me. Its a major damage to the existence of newsgroups, and
everyones ability to surf the net

Gandalf Parker

 

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Thusly "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> Spake Unto All:

>nothing more, nothing less. The market will set the prices for software,
>companies will charge what people are willing to pay. That is economics 101
>folks. As it stands right now, piracy as bad as it is , is competition for
>legal sales. It helps keep the price down, the notion that piracy causes
>high prices is laughable at best, pathetic at worst.

This is true.

Now, according to economics 101, how should a company behave:
* keep producing PC games and turning a loss or low profit, or
* switch to producing console games, meaning less support and
considerably, frequently order-of-magnitude, higher profit?

That's the issue. PC games are already typically 30-50% cheaper than
console games, for exactly the reason you give, but can only become
cheaper by being by being produced more cheaply. Ie, forget those big
production values.

The market has already answered this question: companies now produce
games for consoles, and occasionally one of those games is ported to
PC, more or less as an afterthought. After all, the development cost
rests mainly on the profitable console versin, and whatever money the
game makes on the PC market is pretty much profit.
Also the games are released on the PC a good time AFTER release on the
console, as otherwise the rampant PC piracy would hurt the more
important console market.
Result: sub-optimal (wrt hardware utilization) games aimed at the
console demographic.

So - is a PC gaming market consisting of MMOGs and ports of
one-year-old console games desirable? Is it a *good thing*?

 

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"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:

>> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
>> does it?
>
> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers

Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

 

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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9602C0080CE22knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>>> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
>>> does it?
>>
>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>
> Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.
>
> --
>
> Knight37
>
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
piracy group would help us as consumers

 

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:29:23 -0500, "CounterStrikeJunkie"
<uioc@hotel6.com> wrote:

>Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
>piracy group would help us as consumers

It would help us know which game companies to avoid.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/

 

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>Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
>piracy group would help us as consumers

*shrug*

The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.

C//

 

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"Courageous" wrote
> The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
> enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
> to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.

Pirates are leeching off leeches.
All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.

 

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"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:

>
> "Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9602C0080CE22knight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>>> However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
>>>> does it?
>>>
>>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>>
>> Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.

>> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
> Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
> piracy group would help us as consumers

Only indirectly. If game companies make more money from a supposed lack or
lessening of piracy, then more of them stay in business, and so hopefully
we see companies that make decent games but are not making quite enough
money stay in business to give us more choice in the games we play.

Or the extra money could go to line a fat investor's fat wallet.

--

Knight37

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

 

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"CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> wrote in message
news:M7RRd.664$sz5.169@fe62.usenetserver.com...
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:V2ORd.12236$cW2.7389@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > I got to thinking of this about this the other day. (which you all
know
> > that I hate to do cause it gives me a headache)
> >
> > In the music world, people found out how easy it was for them to log
onto
> > Napster and d/l songs. I remember a co-worker telling me that he had
d/l
> > every album by the Stones. And that he was d/ling the top 100 songs
for
> > each year,starting with 1958.
> >
> > It wasn't until the RIAA stepped in and actively went after Napster (or
> > other like programs), then the users, along with providing consumer
> > information on the legal issues surrounding d/l of songs that things
> > started
> > to change. At least in my tiny world. Oh, and the fact that they
> > started to setup legal sites that allowed users to d/l music for a fee.
> > (but dang! that sounds like Steam.)
> >
> > However, the computer world doesn't have an entity similar to the RIAA
> > does
> > it?
> >
> >
>
> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>
>
>

Well in my tiny world, I saw where people stopped using Napster after RIAA
went after the users. Going after Napster, Gazzilla, ... didn't do much
except cause my friends to change software. Also, some people finally
started to realize after all the info/ads that it was just wrong to
illegally d/l music.

As one person reminded me, there is the SPA, but I couldn't tell you much
about what they're doing since I don't hear about them in the news. Maybe
when they haul the first 8 year old into court they'll make HeadLine News?

 

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"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:dcURd.15041$911.11617@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well in my tiny world, I saw where people stopped using Napster after RIAA
> went after the users. Going after Napster, Gazzilla, ... didn't do much
> except cause my friends to change software. Also, some people finally
> started to realize after all the info/ads that it was just wrong to
> illegally d/l music.
>
> As one person reminded me, there is the SPA, but I couldn't tell you much
> about what they're doing since I don't hear about them in the news.
> Maybe
> when they haul the first 8 year old into court they'll make HeadLine News?
>
>

While your post didn't quite rise to the level of a decent diatribe, it also
didn't answer the question.

You are simply spouting RIAA like propaganda.

I will ask again.

How will the creation of this anti piracy group, help us consumers.

 

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>Your analogy doesn't hold water at all, ...

It /does/ hold water, you're just playing with the tail too much.

>Please give me a break. Economics 101, the market sets the price, software
>companies will charge what people are willing to pay, plain and simple.

The converse is also true. If not enough customers assemble themselves,
the supplier won't produce what is supplied.

C//

 

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"The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> wrote in message
news:YASRd.21767$dZ.909500@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Courageous" wrote
> > The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
> > enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
> > to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
>
> Pirates are leeching off leeches.
> All gamers are exploiting the soft underbelly of the ecosystem; were
> everyone enabled to do as the gamers did, then the gamers wouldn't have
> anything to take, or any clean air to breath for that matter.

It depends on the morality of the person doing the downloading. Warez
remains a useful try-before-you-buy medium. I know lots of people who
wouldn't have bought loads of games were they not able to try the full
version first.

 

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Thusly "CounterStrikeJunkie" <uioc@hotel6.com> Spake Unto All:

>>> So how exactly will this help US, the gaming consumers
>>
>> Those entities exist to serve the interests of game companies.

>Exactly, but you would think from reading some folks here that this anti
>piracy group would help us as consumers

Much as one, by reading some people here, would think there is a
necessary opposition between the interest of game companies and the
interest of consumers.

I am interested in get new good high-budget games which take full
advantage of my hardware. Hence it is in my interest that game
companies make sufficient money to develop new, good, high-budget
games. Hence it is in my interest to destroy piracy.

 

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Thusly "The Chronic" <endo@blunt.com> Spake Unto All:

>> The pirate exploits the soft underbelly of a system that, were everyone
>> enabled to do as the pirate did, then the pirate wouldn't have anything
>> to take. In essence, he is a kind of leech.
>
>Pirates are leeching off leeches.

HAHAHAHA! Yeah, they're striking a blow for the poor oppressed gamer!

Come on - the only reason anyone is a pirate is because they're cheap.
There's no revolutionary piratic underground for the liberation of the
gaming masses, though pirates try to justify piracy by claiming so.

It's very easy: do you want more new games developed for the PC? Then
you don't want piracy.

 

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:

> Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
> cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot

thank you for giving me credit, but unfortunately i feel very lonely in
this fight against piracy in pc games
we see every week a pirate thief coming to this group bragging about he
stealing and robing and being a thief and nobody does anything about it

i'm starting to think there is no "community" spirit in pc games... and
pc gamers really don't care if they play games on a console, on a mobile
or any other device...
i'm really not like that... i'm devoted to pc games, i'm very loyal to
pc games, and never betray pc games by playing games in other platforms
unfortunately i feel not many pc gamers are like myself

this is not telling i'm better than any other pc gamer, but i feel if
every pc gamer was like me... things would be much better
sorry if i'm being pretentious, but i'm really disappointed with all the
other pc gamers out there

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward

 

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"sayNO2piracy" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ce2h11dqu3kfobkeonnbjmbqfgoaj2kp7k@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:
>
>> Thats a major point there. Statistics show that most people really WONT
>> cross the line WHEN the line is obvious. All of the industries put alot
>
> thank you for giving me credit, but unfortunately i feel very lonely in
> this fight against piracy in pc games
> we see every week a pirate thief coming to this group bragging about he
> stealing and robing and being a thief and nobody does anything about it
>
> i'm starting to think there is no "community" spirit in pc games... and
> pc gamers really don't care if they play games on a console, on a mobile
> or any other device...
> i'm really not like that... i'm devoted to pc games, i'm very loyal to
> pc games, and never betray pc games by playing games in other platforms
> unfortunately i feel not many pc gamers are like myself
>
> this is not telling i'm better than any other pc gamer, but i feel if
> every pc gamer was like me... things would be much better
> sorry if i'm being pretentious, but i'm really disappointed with all the
> other pc gamers out there
>
> --
> support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
> be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward

You still haven't explained how this group will reduce prices for the gaming
consumer.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Gandalf Parker wrote:

> Another thing your post brought to mind is all of the times I would
> mention that its illegal and had to listen to "they dont go after regular
> people" or "they cant tell that its me doing it". I always responded with
> "not yet". Now I think everyones getting the clue that both of those are

i don't have any problem saying this, i would very happily help any pc
gamer find a pc game he wants for the best price being it NEW or in the
2nd hand market, but for those who are thieves i would LOVE to see them
being PROSECUTED AND SUED!
COMPLETE ZERO TOLERANCE FOR PIRATE THIEVES IN PC GAMES!

--
support the ones that work hard so you can have great gaming moments
be proud of buying pc games and giving developers the deserved reward