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All latest-gen cards a kludge-job on AGP bus?

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Anonymous
July 30, 2005 11:58:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives :( .

Kendt

PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
near future ;) .
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 1:31:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Thanks, did all that, no go.
Seems like a particular problem between the card and the VIA KT600
chipset on my board. I even tried forcibly disabling smartgart and
editing the registry to indicate that AGP Writes tested OK and should
be on - the driver still disables the feature.
I just put my 9700Pro back in - AGP Writes back on!

Thanks anyway,
Kendt

PS - no digs at VIA, please ;) . Next MB will be an nForce x64.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 3:32:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

I've got an asus p4c800 (i875 chipset w/ agp) and an X800XL agp.. AGP Writes
are on when i run smartgart (and yes i know the diff between this and and
fast writes)


i'd recommend uninstalling your graphics drivers, installing the latest
chipset drivers (like the intel inf package)
make sure you got Directx 9 latest installed.. and then reinstall graphics
drivers.


<eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122778725.248136.116510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
> wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
> X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
> what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
> games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
> They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
> well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
> rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
> than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
> I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
> Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
> nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
> Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
> dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
> thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
> 400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives :( .
>
> Kendt
>
> PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
> near future ;) .
>
Related resources
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 3:47:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

<eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122778725.248136.116510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
> wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
> X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
> what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
> games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
> They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
> well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
> rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
> than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
> I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
> Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
> nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
> Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
> dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
> thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
> 400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives :( .
>
> Kendt
>
> PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
> near future ;) .
>


Heh, well, I saw your previous posts on this topic, and if you plan to
upgrade to 64-bit CPU and a new PCI-E motherboard later this year, I don't
think it would kill you to just stick with the 9700 Pro until then. That's
what I'd do. In fact, I have a 9800 Pro 128MB in my main computer (not much
faster than your card) and I'm not upgrading until next year. Chances are
I'll end up with a whole new system though given all of the changes that
have happened to the PC in the last two years since I last built a gaming
box. I hope you were able to return your X800XL for a refund at least!
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 11:23:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Which is exactly what I'm going to do. The card was enough of a
bargain that if it had worked flawlessly I would have got my money's
worth out of 6mos gameplay. But I at least learned a lesson - no more
VIA!

Thanks,
Kendt
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 4:42:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Special circumstances - there was a sale that made this X800XL AGP
cheaper than the PCIe version. And your second paragraph supports my
plan (returning the X800XL) - rather than buy an nVidia next-gen AGP
card, just live with what I have and build a system designed to take
advantage of a high-end card later this year.

Kendt
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 4:48:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

<eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122778725.248136.116510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
> wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
> X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
> what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
> games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
> They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
> well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
> rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
> than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
> I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
> Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
> nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
> Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
> dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
> thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
> 400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives :( .
>
> Kendt
>
> PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
> near future ;) .
>

Never mind the kludge factor, what about the cost? AGP versions of
PCI-express cards usually cost more. You should have saved the money and put
it to a system upgrade.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 7:45:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

<eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122819803.139958.144560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Which is exactly what I'm going to do. The card was enough of a
> bargain that if it had worked flawlessly I would have got my money's
> worth out of 6mos gameplay. But I at least learned a lesson - no more
> VIA!
>
> Thanks,
> Kendt
>

But you've already paid the extra for the AGP version? Your now going to
have to buy a new pci-express card as part of the upgrade.

Also the PCI-express "generation" cards, even if equipped with an AGP bridge
chip, needed a more powerful CPU to keep them busy. They are crying out
for a new top end motherbaord/cpu. not last years technology.
July 31, 2005 7:45:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"John Russell" <john_e_russell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42ece3f2$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> <eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1122819803.139958.144560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Which is exactly what I'm going to do. The card was enough of a
>> bargain that if it had worked flawlessly I would have got my money's
>> worth out of 6mos gameplay. But I at least learned a lesson - no more
>> VIA!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kendt
>>
>
> But you've already paid the extra for the AGP version? Your now going to
> have to buy a new pci-express card as part of the upgrade.

Around here the AGP versions are cheaper then the PCI Express versions of
many video cards. X800XL & 6600 GT are examples.

> Also the PCI-express "generation" cards, even if equipped with an AGP
> bridge chip, needed a more powerful CPU to keep them busy. They are
> crying out for a new top end motherbaord/cpu. not last years technology.

I hope you're not implying AGP motherboards & CPUs aren't good enough for
the PCI-Express generation cards. I have an Athlon 64 4000 running my
X800XL and it's more than enough.

This setup will be enough for at least a year and by then I figure IBM will
have decided PCI-Express isn't fast enough ( or that they need to sell more
motherboards) and developed a new technology. My money is on them calling
it AGP Express.

Tom
July 31, 2005 7:45:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

>
> This setup will be enough for at least a year and by then I figure IBM
> will have decided PCI-Express isn't fast enough ( or that they need to
> sell more motherboards) and developed a new technology. My money is on
> them calling it AGP Express.

Typo - I meant Intel not IBM.

Tom
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 9:44:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Tom" <Tom@nowhere.ca> wrote in message
news:A_WdnZLaKrAHanHfRVn-rg@rogers.com...
>
> "John Russell" <john_e_russell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42ece3f2$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>
>> <eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1122819803.139958.144560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Which is exactly what I'm going to do. The card was enough of a
>>> bargain that if it had worked flawlessly I would have got my money's
>>> worth out of 6mos gameplay. But I at least learned a lesson - no more
>>> VIA!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kendt
>>>
>>
>> But you've already paid the extra for the AGP version? Your now going to
>> have to buy a new pci-express card as part of the upgrade.
>
> Around here the AGP versions are cheaper then the PCI Express versions of
> many video cards. X800XL & 6600 GT are examples.
>
>> Also the PCI-express "generation" cards, even if equipped with an AGP
>> bridge chip, needed a more powerful CPU to keep them busy. They are
>> crying out for a new top end motherbaord/cpu. not last years technology.
>
> I hope you're not implying AGP motherboards & CPUs aren't good enough for
> the PCI-Express generation cards. I have an Athlon 64 4000 running my
> X800XL and it's more than enough.
>
> This setup will be enough for at least a year and by then I figure IBM
> will have decided PCI-Express isn't fast enough ( or that they need to
> sell more motherboards) and developed a new technology. My money is on
> them calling it AGP Express.
>
> Tom
>
There are more 32bit CPU AGP systems out there than 64 bit systems!
Anonymous
August 6, 2005 5:09:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

According to pricewatch you're completely assbackwards as far as that
statement.

--
there is no .sig
"John Russell" <john_e_russell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42ecbaa8$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> <eventerke@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1122778725.248136.116510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
>> wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
>> X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
>> what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
>> games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
>> They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
>> well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
>> rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
>> than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
>> I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
>> Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
>> nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
>> Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
>> dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
>> thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
>> 400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives :( .
>>
>> Kendt
>>
>> PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
>> near future ;) .
>>
>
> Never mind the kludge factor, what about the cost? AGP versions of
> PCI-express cards usually cost more. You should have saved the money and
> put it to a system upgrade.
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 8:58:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Doug" <pigdos@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:a5UIe.2626$fJ1.1403@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> According to pricewatch you're completely assbackwards as far as that
> statement.

At low end of the market where GPU and memory costs are low, and PCI-express
sales are slow, then AGP card costs more.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:16:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

You're right, but even on the high-end certain PCIe parts are cheaper than
AGP. Actually I don't see how you can say this phenomenon is relegated to
high-end or low-end, it seems the prices differ all over the place for the
same part (mem capacity/speed, GPU speed).

--
there is no .sig
"John Russell" <john_e_russell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42fa241e$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "Doug" <pigdos@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:a5UIe.2626$fJ1.1403@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>> According to pricewatch you're completely assbackwards as far as that
>> statement.
>
> At low end of the market where GPU and memory costs are low, and
> PCI-express sales are slow, then AGP card costs more.
>
>
!