Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (
More info?)
"Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:%mAcc.10865$4N3.6887@newsfe1-win...
> >> There are 2 segments, desktop & enterprise:
> >> o Enterprise drive engineering is focused on Reliability + Performance
> >
> > Cite any source that suggests that actual drive
design....heads+actuators,
> > platters and spindle bearings are technically any different betwen the
top
> > SCSI 'enterprise' drives and SATA drives like the Raptor.
> >
> > There aren't TWO fundamental designs.
>
> Seagate claim TWO fundamental drive design segments:
> o Proceedings of 2nd Annual Conference on File & Storage Technology (FAST)
> o March 2003
> o Seagate Whitepaper
>
http://www.seagate.com/content/docs/pdf/whitepaper/D2c_More_than_Interface_ATA_vs_SCSI_042003.pdf
>
> It details a host of engineering differences between desktop & enterprise
class drives.
>
> o TWO fundamental designs - Enterprise & Desktop
> o Enterprise drives are mechanically different to Desktop drives
> ---- Enterprise *drives* target higher reliability & performance
> ---- Desktop *drives* target higher capacity & cost competitive
> o Drive application segment goes *beyond* interface
> ---- Raptor = Enterprise segment, Cheetah = Enterprise segment
> ---- former uses SATA, latter SCSI - *both* are Enterprise segment
>
>
> > There's no indication that good SATA HDs are of lower reliability than
SCSI
> > HDs. Note that the warranty length is NOT an indication of reliability.
>
> o What's a "good" SATA? A Raptor 10,000rpm? Well that's an Enterprise
drive.
> o What's a SCSI HD? A Cheetah 10,000rpm? Well that's an Enterprise drive.
>
> Distinction is the *drive design* segment - enterprise or desktop.
>
> Indeed drive design segment is spreading into the 2.5" market:
> o Hitachi now produce an enterprise class & laptop class 2.5" 7200rpm HD
> o Enterprise class (EK) version = continual use rated, laptop class = is
not
>
>
> >> SATA drives may not however be engineered like SCSI 24/7/365 thrashing
> >
> > The above however is based on wild and false conjecture.
>
> No, it's based on two points:
> 1) Two drive design segments exist
> ---- Desktop & Enterprise
> 2) Current *market offerings* bias the former - at the moment
> ---- most SATA drives are desktop drives - irrespective of the interface
> ---- some SATA drives are *enterprise drives* - irrespective of the
interface
> -------- a Raptor is a *drive* designed for enterprise use
> ---- most SCSI drives are enterprise drives - irrespective of the
interface
>
> Seagate's point - and WD with Raptor - is that Drive-Design-Differs:
> o Yes the Raptor has an SATA *interface*
> o However the Raptor is an *Enterprise drive* in terms of design
>
> A potential problem is in the implementation of a SATA system:
> o SATA Desktop solutions exist - Highpoint
> o SATA Enterprise solutions exist - 3ware
>
> SATA or SCSI alone doesn't mean delineate Enterprise or Desktop.
> That ignores the cost:benefit of Raptor + 3ware = cheap multi-TB.
> o Raptor doesn't win just because of Cheap + Multi-GB + SATA
> o Raptor wins because it is Enterprise-Class *as well* = Substitution
>
> SATA drives may not be engineered like SCSI - you have to compare
> underlying drive technology re apples to apples, enterprise to enterprise.
>
> o The interface doesn't determine the class of drive
> o The design of the drive determines its class
>
> Ok, some will still argue SCSI is a superior enterprise interface to SATA.
> That is likely to be a depreciating argument - as SATA & mkt offerings
change.
>
> I do think SATA is a mess - but mainly from the low-end implementation:
> o Desktop ATA drives using a SATA bridge chip
> o Desktop ATA controllers which are just that - desktop use
> o SATA connectors aren't well latching
> o SATA should have launched with multi-drives per channel
>
> SATA *was* urgently needed - as anyone who has implemented 18" ATA
> cable length limits with an 8-port 3ware card re routing & drive-bay
distance.
> Enterprise can come in a SATA interface - Raptor & 3ware prove it.
>
> I hope that's clearer - there *is* a desktop v enterprise drive design
difference.
> Most SATA drives are *desktop drives*, Raptor is an *enterprise drive*.
>
> Ok, perhaps Seagate are lying their ass off and we've been overpaying thro
> the nose for years for Enterprise class drives which were the same as
Desktop.
> Perhaps, however enterprise drives seem to outlast desktop in the same
task.
> Therein is the marketing & engineering win for Raptor over other SATA
drives.
> --
Dorothy, thanks for the great information. Unfortunately, Rodney still
thinks that there is onboard termination on LVD drives. But, I do agree
that SATA is still a tad behind SCSI at this point. Like anything else, it
will get better over the years.
Rita