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SATA bridgeboards for legacy drives

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 2, 2004 3:13:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...

Wanted:
1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
floppy drive.

2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
floppy drive.

3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).

I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
drive. I want everything SATA.

I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
I don't care about speed.
I just want connectivity.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 2, 2004 6:57:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Do they even make a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy drive which attaches
using the old pATA interface???? I have never seen one.

Jason Hunsaker wrote:
>
> Wanted:
> 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> floppy drive.
>
> 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> floppy drive.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 2, 2004 8:19:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Walt wrote:

> Do they even make a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy drive which attaches
> using the old pATA interface???? I have never seen one.

Sort of. The LS-120 and LS-240 have PATA interfaces and will read and write
standard 1.4 meg 3-1/2" diskettes.

On the other hand, ATA and ATAPI are not the same--SATA doesn't
automatically support ATAPI--there are some bridge chips that will when
used with a host adapter containing the same manufacturer's chip allow the
connection of removable-media devices but that's not something one can
count on working at this point.

> Jason Hunsaker wrote:
>>
>> Wanted:
>> 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>> floppy drive.
>>
>> 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>> floppy drive.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 3, 2004 9:15:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Jason Hunsaker" <jbhjbh001@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:29b77984.0404021113.265880e5@posting.google.com...
> Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>
> Wanted:
> 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> floppy drive.
>
> 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> floppy drive.
>
> 3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>
> I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
> floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
> drive. I want everything SATA.
>
> I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
> I don't care about speed.
> I just want connectivity.

You've got it with USB.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 3, 2004 2:25:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker)
wrote:

>Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>
>Wanted:
>1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>floppy drive.
>
>2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>floppy drive.
>

SATA is HDDs, and ATAPI devices only. Floppys are practically obsolete
anyway.

>3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>

More doable. Just get a USB bridgeboard for a 3.5" drive and adapt it
to work.

>I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
>floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
>drive. I want everything SATA.
>
>I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
>I don't care about speed.
>I just want connectivity.
April 3, 2004 6:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker) wrote:

>Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>
>Wanted:
>1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>floppy drive.
>
>2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>floppy drive.
>
>3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>
>I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
>floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
>drive. I want everything SATA.
>
>I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
>I don't care about speed.
>I just want connectivity.

Floppy drives, especially 5.25, are not going to be engineered for a new
interface standard. There is NO market or demand for it. Not worth it from
a manufacturing stand point. They are disappearing. 5.25 have already
disappeared from all but dying niche markets. No advantage to have a slow
drive like a floppy on a SATA controller.

JT
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 3, 2004 6:19:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:19:44 GMT, JT <spam@dcplus.dyndns.info> wrote:

>On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker) wrote:
>
>>Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>>
>>Wanted:
>>1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>>floppy drive.
>>
>>2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>>floppy drive.
>>
>>3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>>
>>I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
>>floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
>>drive. I want everything SATA.
>>
>>I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
>>I don't care about speed.
>>I just want connectivity.
>
>Floppy drives, especially 5.25, are not going to be engineered for a new
>interface standard. There is NO market or demand for it. Not worth it from
>a manufacturing stand point. They are disappearing. 5.25 have already
>disappeared from all but dying niche markets. No advantage to have a slow
>drive like a floppy on a SATA controller.
>
>JT

But anything you can connect a standard 3.5" PC floppy drive, you can
connect a 5.25" drive to, if you want to work at it.
April 3, 2004 11:36:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:23:37 -0500, Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid>
wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:19:44 GMT, JT <spam@dcplus.dyndns.info> wrote:
>
>>On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker) wrote:
>>
>>>Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>>>
>>>Wanted:
>>>1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>>>floppy drive.
>>>
>>>2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>>>floppy drive.
>>>
>>>3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>>>
>>>I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
>>>floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
>>>drive. I want everything SATA.
>>>
>>>I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
>>>I don't care about speed.
>>>I just want connectivity.
>>
>>Floppy drives, especially 5.25, are not going to be engineered for a new
>>interface standard. There is NO market or demand for it. Not worth it from
>>a manufacturing stand point. They are disappearing. 5.25 have already
>>disappeared from all but dying niche markets. No advantage to have a slow
>>drive like a floppy on a SATA controller.
>>
>>JT
>
>But anything you can connect a standard 3.5" PC floppy drive, you can
>connect a 5.25" drive to, if you want to work at it.

True enough, but doesn't help with the original question. Floppies are
disappearing. No one is building new interfaces for them. No reason to.
When the floppy interface disappears from the motherboard, don't bother
trying to connect a floppy.

JT
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 4, 2004 10:09:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"JT" <spam@dcplus.dyndns.info> wrote in message news:e38b6cccfdfddabaee89d8a38fa1aa2e@news.teranews.com...
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:23:37 -0500, Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:19:44 GMT, JT <spam@dcplus.dyndns.info> wrote:
> >
> >>On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker) wrote:
> >>
> >>>Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
> >>>
> >>>Wanted:
> >>>1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> >>>floppy drive.
> >>>
> >>>2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> >>>floppy drive.
> >>>
> >>>3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
> >>>
> >>>I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
> >>>floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
> >>>drive. I want everything SATA.
> >>>
> >>>I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
> >>>I don't care about speed.
> >>>I just want connectivity.
> >>
> >>Floppy drives, especially 5.25, are not going to be engineered for a new
> >>interface standard. There is NO market or demand for it. Not worth it from
> >>a manufacturing stand point. They are disappearing. 5.25 have already
> >>disappeared from all but dying niche markets. No advantage to have a slow
> >>drive like a floppy on a SATA controller.
> >>
> >>JT
> >
> >But anything you can connect a standard 3.5" PC floppy drive, you can
> >connect a 5.25" drive to, if you want to work at it.
>
> True enough, but doesn't help with the original question. Floppies are
> disappearing. No one is building new interfaces for them. No reason to.
> When the floppy interface disappears from the motherboard, don't bother
> trying to connect a floppy.

Or have the sense to use USB that will support floppy drives for a while yet.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 6, 2004 4:32:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:c4km1j0cef@news2.newsguy.com
> Walt wrote:
>
> > Do they even make a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy drive which attaches
> > using the old pATA interface???? I have never seen one.
>
> Sort of. The LS-120 and LS-240 have PATA interfaces and will read and
> write standard 1.4 meg 3-1/2" diskettes.
>
> On the other hand, ATA and ATAPI are not the same--

Yes, they are, from a hardware standpoint.

> SATA doesn't automatically support ATAPI--

Yes, it does.
It's the bridge chips on some drives and host controllers that present a problem.
They shouldn't really be on the market at all. There appears to be a problem
with some ATAPI devices that don't react properly so that the bridge chip doesn't
know what to do unless it knows the command beforehand

> there are some bridge chips that will when used with a host adapter con-
> taining the same manufacturer's chip allow the connection of removable-media
> devices but that's not something one can count on working at this point.

It shouldn't be a problem when the bridge recognizes the ATAPI commands
and knows how to handle the different protocol. If that's the case, different
makes should work fine together.

>
> > Jason Hunsaker wrote:
> > >
> > > Wanted:
> > > 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> > > floppy drive.
> > >
> > > 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> > > floppy drive.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 7, 2004 1:09:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message news:1olt601ktfja6t6t3rf3p2ouolbg8ch0d4@4ax.com
> On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker)
> wrote:
>
> > Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
> >
> > Wanted:
> > 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> > floppy drive.
> >
> > 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> > floppy drive.
> >
>
> SATA is HDDs, and ATAPI devices only.

Oh? Care to tell where it says that?

> Floppys are practically obsolete anyway.
>
> > 3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
> >
>
> More doable. Just get a USB bridgeboard for a 3.5" drive and adapt it
> to work.

Ever wondered what that 3.5/5.25 Drive A, Drive B setting is for in your BIOS?

>
> > I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
> > floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
> > drive. I want everything SATA.
> >
> > I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
> > I don't care about speed.
> > I just want connectivity.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 7, 2004 3:09:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Folkert Rienstra wrote:

> "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> news:1olt601ktfja6t6t3rf3p2ouolbg8ch0d4@4ax.com
>> On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>> >
>> > Wanted:
>> > 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>> > floppy drive.
>> >
>> > 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>> > floppy drive.
>> >
>>
>> SATA is HDDs, and ATAPI devices only.
>
> Oh? Care to tell where it says that?

Uh, why would you expect it to support any kind of device that parallel ATA
doesn't support?

>> Floppys are practically obsolete anyway.
>>
>> > 3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>> >
>>
>> More doable. Just get a USB bridgeboard for a 3.5" drive and adapt it
>> to work.
>
> Ever wondered what that 3.5/5.25 Drive A, Drive B setting is for in your
> BIOS?

I'm sorry, but I don't see what that has to do with connecting diskette
drives via SATA.

>> > I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
>> > floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
>> > drive. I want everything SATA.
>> >
>> > I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
>> > I don't care about speed.
>> > I just want connectivity.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 7, 2004 4:25:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

Oops, sorry about that.
Since I was working from memory I thought I had this set aside
in the drafts folder for further checking before sending.

"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote in message news:c4uvib$2o5760$3@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:c4km1j0cef@news2.newsguy.com
> > Walt wrote:
> >
> > > Do they even make a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy drive which attaches
> > > using the old pATA interface???? I have never seen one.
> >
> > Sort of. The LS-120 and LS-240 have PATA interfaces and will read and
> > write standard 1.4 meg 3-1/2" diskettes.
> >
> > On the other hand, ATA and ATAPI are not the same--
>
> Yes, they are, from a hardware standpoint.
>
> > SATA doesn't automatically support ATAPI--
>
> Yes, it does.
> It's the bridge chips on some drives and host controllers that present a problem.
> They shouldn't really be on the market at all.

" So what does the bridge do?
• In most cases the host will decide the bridge cannot support DMA
commands and will downgrade to PIO
• In some cases the bridge may hang and the command will abort "

The problem apparently are the DMA Packet Commands:

" The expected response to the host controller is different
depending on whether the command is a read or write "

> There appears to be a problem with some ATAPI devices that don't react properly
> so that the bridge chip doesn't know what to do unless it knows the command beforehand ...

" How can a bridge determine the command direction?
Ideally, by reading the device task file this could be ascertained (eg. IOIN)
Unfortunately, most ATAPI devices do not present the task file correctly
when the bridge wants to read it –after DMARQ is asserted. This should be
available until DMACK- but is typically returned as 7F or is corrupt "

Source: Concerns about ATAPI devices using SATA bridges
http://www.t13.org/docs2003/e03131r0.pdf

>
> > there are some bridge chips that will when used with a host adapter con-
> > taining the same manufacturer's chip allow the connection of removable-media
> > devices but that's not something one can count on working at this point.
>
> It shouldn't be a problem when the bridge recognizes the ATAPI commands
> and knows how to handle the different protocol. If that's the case, different
> makes should work fine together.
>
> >
> > > Jason Hunsaker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wanted:
> > > > 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> > > > floppy drive.
> > > >
> > > > 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> > > > floppy drive.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 7, 2004 9:18:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:09:11 +0200, "Folkert Rienstra"
<see_reply-to@myweb.nl> wrote:

>"Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message news:1olt601ktfja6t6t3rf3p2ouolbg8ch0d4@4ax.com
>> On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
>> >
>> > Wanted:
>> > 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
>> > floppy drive.
>> >
>> > 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
>> > floppy drive.
>> >
>>
>> SATA is HDDs, and ATAPI devices only.
>
>Oh? Care to tell where it says that?
>

The ATA in SATA.

>> Floppys are practically obsolete anyway.
>>
>> > 3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
>> >
>>
>> More doable. Just get a USB bridgeboard for a 3.5" drive and adapt it
>> to work.
>
>Ever wondered what that 3.5/5.25 Drive A, Drive B setting is for in your BIOS?
>

Nope, becuase I know it is for configutation of the system to know
which drive is connect where, if at all, as floppy drives are dumb
devices.

>>
>> > I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
>> > floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
>> > drive. I want everything SATA.
>> >
>> > I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
>> > I don't care about speed.
>> > I just want connectivity.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
April 8, 2004 4:48:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:c4vska0l0c@news1.newsguy.com...
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> > "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message news:1olt601ktfja6t6t3rf3p2ouolbg8ch0d4@4ax.com
> > > On 2 Apr 2004 11:13:57 -0800, jbhjbh001@yahoo.com (Jason Hunsaker) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Okay, I know I'm crazy for wanting this, but...
> > > >
> > > > Wanted:
> > > > 1. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 3.5" floppy drive, or 3.5" SATA 4x
> > > > floppy drive.
> > > >
> > > > 2. SATA bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive, or 5.25" SATA
> > > > floppy drive.
> > > >
> > >
> > > SATA is HDDs, and ATAPI devices only.
> >
> > Oh? Care to tell where it says that?
>
> Uh, why would you expect it to support any kind of device that parallel ATA
> doesn't support?

I don't.
On the other hand, the new 1 meter cable limitation opens doors
that were previously closed. Btw, ever heard of 'CompactFlash'?

The SATA spec says:

" 4.1.20 device Device is a storage peripheral. Traditionally, a device on
the interface has been a hard disk drive, but any form of storage device may
be placed on the interface provided the device adheres to this standard. "

So then, why would *you* suspect *me* " to expect *it* to support
*any* kind of device that parallel ATA *doesn't* support " ?

>
> >> Floppys are practically obsolete anyway.
> > >
> > > > 3. USB bridgeboard for legacy 5.25" floppy drive (instead of # 2).
> > > >
> > >
> > > More doable. Just get a USB bridgeboard for a 3.5" drive and adapt it
> > > to work.
> >
> > Ever wondered what that 3.5/5.25 Drive A, Drive B setting is for in your
> > BIOS?
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't see what that has to do with connecting diskette
> drives via SATA.

(Neither do I. The subject is USB, not SATA).

Support maybe? BIOS, driver, firmware in the bridge?

Diskette drives can be extremely dumb and not very well 'standard'ized.
My PC failed to boot a FD when with the wrong bios setting.
The format options and the FDD icon in Windows were according to bios
setting.


>
> > > > I know, I'm only a market of one. But, hey, they make 3.5" USB 4x
> > > > floppy drives. I can dream. Plextor announced a 12x SATA DVD+/-RW
> > > > drive. I want everything SATA.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to transfer everything to a hard drive or CD.
> > > > I don't care about speed.
> > > > I just want connectivity.
>
> --
> --John
!