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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service..

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Anonymous
June 23, 2004 3:14:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

I bought a Sony Cybershot DSC-W1 the other day. I tested it out, and the
indoor photos with flash were dismal. I was replacing an Olympus C-3000,
and at 3.2 megapixles, it blew the Sony away in picture quality. Almost
every shot I took with the new Sony W1 was soft, and the white balance was
off, leaving every white wall in my house either yellow or green. I was not
impressed at all.

Worse than that, I contacted Sony's 800 number to ask them a couple of
questions about the camera. I found out that they have NO technical
experience or information whatsoever. They can merely regurgitate what is
already printed in the manual. I tried to ask them if I can use Lithium
batteries in the camera (not the rechargeable type, just the energizer light
blue and silver batteries that are AA lithium batteries made specifically
for digital cameras,) they said no, you can only use Alkaline or the
rechargeable NiMH batteries. When I asked them why, they said they don't
know, and there are no technical resources for them to ask. (Energizer said
they would work, since they are made to work wherever you would normally use
alkaline) but Sony said NO, they won't work strictly because that what was
printed in the manual. I can't figure out why, but the manager of customer
service for Sony said there was nobody to ask the question to at Sony.

The other question I had for them was can I use a Memory Stick Pro Duo in
the camera and they also said no. (I found out later that in the manual it
says you can, but that's not the point.) The point is, they said no you
couldn't use it because it was a "smaller" memory card and it wouldn't fit.
I even tried to "teach" the guy at Sony that the whole purpose of the duo
card is so that you can use it in equipment that takes EITHER size card, and
that you would use it with the adapter in the W1, but he insisted that you
couldn't use it in that camera. What an idiot.

The bottom line is that when you call Olympus' technical support, they have
TECHNICIANS on the other line that are capable and willing to answer your
technical questions, and if they don't know the answer, they will put you on
hold and try to find it out. (I imagine that other companies like Cannon
and Kodak would as well.) Sony on the other hand was UNWILLING to do that.
They could tell you what was in the manual, (and sometimes not even that)
and then tell you they can't help you anymore.

That left a very bad taste in my mouth (what would I do if I actually needed
service on the camera??) and I promptly returned the camera to the store and
bought the new Olympus C-60 for the same price from Sams Club (but 6
megapixles instead of 5.) I tested the Olympus out and already my first
impression is that it is way better than the Sony. I am now very happy.

I just wanted to post this because maybe I can save some of you from making
the same mistake of buying the Sony W1 camera that I did. It is not a good
model, and SONY is NOT a good company to buy a digital camera from if you
would like any kind of customer service or support.

I've always been happy with Sony, and frankly I was shocked at how much
their company has changed recently with it's customer service, but It will
be a while before they will regain my trust again. And I was just about to
go out and buy a Sony 50" LCD Big Screen TV. Now I'm going to consider a
different company.

Just a word to the wise... STAY AWAY FROM SONY.
Anonymous
June 23, 2004 3:46:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops. Therefore I
won't buy Sony.

As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason why you should not
be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA batteries, they just
last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries (better price than Radio
Shack).

I use them in my Quantaray QTB-9500A external flash module and I previously used them in my
Olympus D460-Z camera (gave camera to parents). I also use them in portable CD player and
other equip't. and they last so much longer than alkaline batteries.

Dave




"unavailable" <imaketv@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:R33Cc.10212$bs4.2709@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| I bought a Sony Cybershot DSC-W1 the other day. I tested it out, and the
| indoor photos with flash were dismal. I was replacing an Olympus C-3000,
| and at 3.2 megapixles, it blew the Sony away in picture quality. Almost
| every shot I took with the new Sony W1 was soft, and the white balance was
| off, leaving every white wall in my house either yellow or green. I was not
| impressed at all.
|
| Worse than that, I contacted Sony's 800 number to ask them a couple of
| questions about the camera. I found out that they have NO technical
| experience or information whatsoever. They can merely regurgitate what is
| already printed in the manual. I tried to ask them if I can use Lithium
| batteries in the camera (not the rechargeable type, just the energizer light
| blue and silver batteries that are AA lithium batteries made specifically
| for digital cameras,) they said no, you can only use Alkaline or the
| rechargeable NiMH batteries. When I asked them why, they said they don't
| know, and there are no technical resources for them to ask. (Energizer said
| they would work, since they are made to work wherever you would normally use
| alkaline) but Sony said NO, they won't work strictly because that what was
| printed in the manual. I can't figure out why, but the manager of customer
| service for Sony said there was nobody to ask the question to at Sony.
|
| The other question I had for them was can I use a Memory Stick Pro Duo in
| the camera and they also said no. (I found out later that in the manual it
| says you can, but that's not the point.) The point is, they said no you
| couldn't use it because it was a "smaller" memory card and it wouldn't fit.
| I even tried to "teach" the guy at Sony that the whole purpose of the duo
| card is so that you can use it in equipment that takes EITHER size card, and
| that you would use it with the adapter in the W1, but he insisted that you
| couldn't use it in that camera. What an idiot.
|
| The bottom line is that when you call Olympus' technical support, they have
| TECHNICIANS on the other line that are capable and willing to answer your
| technical questions, and if they don't know the answer, they will put you on
| hold and try to find it out. (I imagine that other companies like Cannon
| and Kodak would as well.) Sony on the other hand was UNWILLING to do that.
| They could tell you what was in the manual, (and sometimes not even that)
| and then tell you they can't help you anymore.
|
| That left a very bad taste in my mouth (what would I do if I actually needed
| service on the camera??) and I promptly returned the camera to the store and
| bought the new Olympus C-60 for the same price from Sams Club (but 6
| megapixles instead of 5.) I tested the Olympus out and already my first
| impression is that it is way better than the Sony. I am now very happy.
|
| I just wanted to post this because maybe I can save some of you from making
| the same mistake of buying the Sony W1 camera that I did. It is not a good
| model, and SONY is NOT a good company to buy a digital camera from if you
| would like any kind of customer service or support.
|
| I've always been happy with Sony, and frankly I was shocked at how much
| their company has changed recently with it's customer service, but It will
| be a while before they will regain my trust again. And I was just about to
| go out and buy a Sony 50" LCD Big Screen TV. Now I'm going to consider a
| different company.
|
| Just a word to the wise... STAY AWAY FROM SONY.
|
|
Anonymous
June 23, 2004 4:04:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

About the Lithium batteries... You're absolutely right. there's no reason
why you can't use them in the Sony W1 camera. However, Sony Swears that you
can't use them. They specifically call for Alkaline or NiMH only. Sounds
fishy doesn't it?


"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:Jx3Cc.29132$U.21808@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
laptops. Therefore I
> won't buy Sony.
>
> As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason
why you should not
> be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
batteries, they just
> last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
(better price than Radio
> Shack).
>
> I use them in my Quantaray QTB-9500A external flash module and I
previously used them in my
> Olympus D460-Z camera (gave camera to parents). I also use them in
portable CD player and
> other equip't. and they last so much longer than alkaline batteries.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> "unavailable" <imaketv@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:R33Cc.10212$bs4.2709@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> | I bought a Sony Cybershot DSC-W1 the other day. I tested it out, and
the
> | indoor photos with flash were dismal. I was replacing an Olympus
C-3000,
> | and at 3.2 megapixles, it blew the Sony away in picture quality. Almost
> | every shot I took with the new Sony W1 was soft, and the white balance
was
> | off, leaving every white wall in my house either yellow or green. I was
not
> | impressed at all.
> |
> | Worse than that, I contacted Sony's 800 number to ask them a couple of
> | questions about the camera. I found out that they have NO technical
> | experience or information whatsoever. They can merely regurgitate what
is
> | already printed in the manual. I tried to ask them if I can use Lithium
> | batteries in the camera (not the rechargeable type, just the energizer
light
> | blue and silver batteries that are AA lithium batteries made
specifically
> | for digital cameras,) they said no, you can only use Alkaline or the
> | rechargeable NiMH batteries. When I asked them why, they said they
don't
> | know, and there are no technical resources for them to ask. (Energizer
said
> | they would work, since they are made to work wherever you would normally
use
> | alkaline) but Sony said NO, they won't work strictly because that what
was
> | printed in the manual. I can't figure out why, but the manager of
customer
> | service for Sony said there was nobody to ask the question to at Sony.
> |
> | The other question I had for them was can I use a Memory Stick Pro Duo
in
> | the camera and they also said no. (I found out later that in the manual
it
> | says you can, but that's not the point.) The point is, they said no you
> | couldn't use it because it was a "smaller" memory card and it wouldn't
fit.
> | I even tried to "teach" the guy at Sony that the whole purpose of the
duo
> | card is so that you can use it in equipment that takes EITHER size card,
and
> | that you would use it with the adapter in the W1, but he insisted that
you
> | couldn't use it in that camera. What an idiot.
> |
> | The bottom line is that when you call Olympus' technical support, they
have
> | TECHNICIANS on the other line that are capable and willing to answer
your
> | technical questions, and if they don't know the answer, they will put
you on
> | hold and try to find it out. (I imagine that other companies like
Cannon
> | and Kodak would as well.) Sony on the other hand was UNWILLING to do
that.
> | They could tell you what was in the manual, (and sometimes not even
that)
> | and then tell you they can't help you anymore.
> |
> | That left a very bad taste in my mouth (what would I do if I actually
needed
> | service on the camera??) and I promptly returned the camera to the store
and
> | bought the new Olympus C-60 for the same price from Sams Club (but 6
> | megapixles instead of 5.) I tested the Olympus out and already my first
> | impression is that it is way better than the Sony. I am now very happy.
> |
> | I just wanted to post this because maybe I can save some of you from
making
> | the same mistake of buying the Sony W1 camera that I did. It is not a
good
> | model, and SONY is NOT a good company to buy a digital camera from if
you
> | would like any kind of customer service or support.
> |
> | I've always been happy with Sony, and frankly I was shocked at how much
> | their company has changed recently with it's customer service, but It
will
> | be a while before they will regain my trust again. And I was just about
to
> | go out and buy a Sony 50" LCD Big Screen TV. Now I'm going to consider
a
> | different company.
> |
> | Just a word to the wise... STAY AWAY FROM SONY.
> |
> |
>
>
Related resources
June 23, 2004 1:50:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:46:49 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
<DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:

>Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops. Therefore I
>won't buy Sony.
>

Just to balance things up a bit. I had a Sony LCD monitor that
developed a patch of missing pixels after nearly three years. It was
just in the guarantee period. Sony no longer made the same monitor so
they exchanged it for a new larger one. It arrived the following day.


Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
Build networks from numeric, text and image files.
http://www.easynn.com
Anonymous
June 23, 2004 1:54:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:

Don't top post

> Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops. Therefore I
> won't buy Sony.
>
> As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason why you should not
> be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA batteries, they just
> last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries (better price than Radio
> Shack).

When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.




--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
Anonymous
June 23, 2004 7:54:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

If it is not a voltage issue, could it be a temperature issue?

Jeff


"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:o YfCc.115610$603.2060697@weber.videotron.net...
> David H. Lipman wrote:
>
> Don't top post
>
> > Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
laptops. Therefore I
> > won't buy Sony.
> >
> > As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason
why you should not
> > be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
batteries, they just
> > last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
(better price than Radio
> > Shack).
>
> When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
> "AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
>
>
>
>
> --
> --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
>
June 23, 2004 9:01:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> somehow managed to impart:

>David H. Lipman wrote:
>
>Don't top post
>
>> Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops. Therefore I
>> won't buy Sony.
>>
>> As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason why you should not
>> be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA batteries, they just
>> last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries (better price than Radio
>> Shack).
>
>When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
>"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.

Yes, but what?

Lithium batteries, in my experience have a remarkably constant voltage
throughout their long, useful life. Ohm's Law is relevant here.

My Olympus E-10 works just fine on Lithium batteries as well as NiMH.
Alkaline would probably be fine for a short while, too.

Alkaline start off about 1.6 volts per cell and drop to about 1.4
before becoming useless for most digital cameras. NiMH start off about
1.4 volts max and they hold their charge well until the voltage drops
to <1.28 volts or thereabouts.

Lithium keep going for ages at a pretty constant voltage, and hold
their voltage for years. The battery in your motherboard is lithium.

Lithium ion rechargables have lots of electronics inside them as well
as chemicals and are usually device-specific. Nonetheless the
manufacturers class them as consumables and only give a 6 month
guarantee.

Dave.


2000 hi-resolution photos especially Edinburgh &
Scotland. Also 3D rendered art & altered images.
* No advertisements * http://www.henniker.org.uk
Anonymous
June 23, 2004 9:26:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:o YfCc.115610$603.2060697@weber.videotron.net...
>
> When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
> "AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
>
>
That's brilliant Alan. You sound like you work for Sony's customer service.
Highly technical answer! Now mr. smartypants, do you want to fill us in on
what the good reason you have is?
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 12:55:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

I almost *always* Top Post and will continue to do so !

If they state it -- there has to be a reason. Please provide it.

Dave




"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:o YfCc.115610$603.2060697@weber.videotron.net...
| David H. Lipman wrote:
|
| Don't top post
|
| > Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops.
Therefore I
| > won't buy Sony.
| >
| > As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason why you should
not
| > be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA batteries, they
just
| > last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries (better price than
Radio
| > Shack).
|
| When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
| "AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
|
|
|
|
| --
| --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
|
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 1:55:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:V6mCc.570$L8.413@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> I almost *always* Top Post and will continue to do so !
>
> If they state it -- there has to be a reason. Please provide it.
>
> Dave
>
Any batteries will work in a camera as long as they do not exceed the
voltage specs for the camera as put out by the manufacturer. If they are too
low in voltage the camera won't work, but it won't harm the camera, since
any battery you use will begin to put out a too small voltage when near the
end of its useful life. I use a home-made lead acid battery pack on my Nikon
F5. It only uses 5 cells, since 6 cells will charge up to 14.5 volts, and I
was afraid that this might over voltage the camera circuits. Fortunately, I
was able to find individual cells that only charge to about 2.1 volts each,
and build a 5 cell pack that only charges to about 10.5 volts, which is well
within the manufacturers 12 volt specs. I have to wear this pack on my
waist, and connect it to my camera with a two conductor cord, but it will
provide the camera with plenty of power for a long time, since it holds
about 3500 ampere-hours. I use it for a back-up if the eight 1.55 volt
lithium's die when I am on a location somewhere out in the sticks.
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 2:41:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

William:

Go back to using 6 cells and then obtain and implement a LM7812, 12v regulator. More than
12 volts can go into the regulator but, only 12 volts will come out of the 3 pin active
device.

Other chips to use; National Semiconductor LM25xx family -
http://www.national.com/parametric/0,1850,1758,00.html

Full schematic of a 12v, low voltage, regulated power supply:
http://www.drbob.net/project/powersupply/linear/12v1alv...

Voltage regulation concept:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/7.html

Dave




"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message news:p %mCc.94061$eu.6020@attbi_s02...
|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:V6mCc.570$L8.413@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
| > I almost *always* Top Post and will continue to do so !
| >
| > If they state it -- there has to be a reason. Please provide it.
| >
| > Dave
| >
| Any batteries will work in a camera as long as they do not exceed the
| voltage specs for the camera as put out by the manufacturer. If they are too
| low in voltage the camera won't work, but it won't harm the camera, since
| any battery you use will begin to put out a too small voltage when near the
| end of its useful life. I use a home-made lead acid battery pack on my Nikon
| F5. It only uses 5 cells, since 6 cells will charge up to 14.5 volts, and I
| was afraid that this might over voltage the camera circuits. Fortunately, I
| was able to find individual cells that only charge to about 2.1 volts each,
| and build a 5 cell pack that only charges to about 10.5 volts, which is well
| within the manufacturers 12 volt specs. I have to wear this pack on my
| waist, and connect it to my camera with a two conductor cord, but it will
| provide the camera with plenty of power for a long time, since it holds
| about 3500 ampere-hours. I use it for a back-up if the eight 1.55 volt
| lithium's die when I am on a location somewhere out in the sticks.
|
|
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 3:29:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:uGnCc.601$L8.569@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> William:
>
> Go back to using 6 cells and then obtain and implement a LM7812, 12v
regulator. More than
> 12 volts can go into the regulator but, only 12 volts will come out of the
3 pin active
> device.
>
> Other chips to use; National Semiconductor LM25xx family -
> http://www.national.com/parametric/0,1850,1758,00.html
>
> Full schematic of a 12v, low voltage, regulated power supply:
> http://www.drbob.net/project/powersupply/linear/12v1alv...
>
> Voltage regulation concept:
> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_5/7.html
>
> Dave
>
Thanks, Dave. - I may just try building one of these. I am using gell-cell 2
volt cells that I found on line pretty cheap, but I would prefer a regular
12 volt gell cell because they are very common, and I can plug them into my
car cigarette lighter socket and recharge them while I am driving around. I
have to charge my home-made pack with a 6 volt wall wart supply that really
puts out 10.65 volts under no load. This works, but it takes several days to
recharge the 10.5 volt pack back up if it is nearly discharged.....12 volt
gell-cells are really neat for this application because they come in all
sizes. The ones used for bicycle lights are a nice size......
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 3:45:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:14:57 GMT, "unavailable" <imaketv@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I bought a Sony Cybershot DSC-W1 the other day. I tested it out, and the
>indoor photos with flash were dismal. I was replacing an Olympus C-3000,
>and at 3.2 megapixles, it blew the Sony away in picture quality. Almost
>every shot I took with the new Sony W1 was soft, and the white balance was
>off, leaving every white wall in my house either yellow or green. I was not
>impressed at all.



Seems to me you are nothing than a absolute Idiot and got what you deserved..



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 2:28:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> somehow managed to impart:
>
>
>>David H. Lipman wrote:
>>
>>Don't top post
>>
>>
>>>Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio laptops. Therefore I
>>>won't buy Sony.
>>>
>>>As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason why you should not
>>>be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA batteries, they just
>>>last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries (better price than Radio
>>>Shack).
>>
>>When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
>>"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
>
>
> Yes, but what?

No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
lithiums without trouble at all...


--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 6:39:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:o yBCc.4225$_n2.69611@weber.videotron.net...
> Dave wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> somehow managed to impart:
> >
> >
> >>David H. Lipman wrote:
> >>
> >>Don't top post
> >>
> >>
> >>>Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
laptops. Therefore I
> >>>won't buy Sony.
> >>>
> >>>As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason
why you should not
> >>>be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
batteries, they just
> >>>last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
(better price than Radio
> >>>Shack).
> >>
> >>When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
> >>"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
> >
> >
> > Yes, but what?
>
> No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
> batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
> say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
> possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
> time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
> characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
> the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
> lithiums without trouble at all...
>
>
> --
> --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
>

I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
Anonymous
June 24, 2004 6:39:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

pjp wrote:

>>No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
>>batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
>>say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
>>possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
>>time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
>>characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
>>the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
>>lithiums without trouble at all...
>>
>>
>>--
>>--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
>>
>
>
> I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
> the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
> cautious of using them in anything that says not to.


Really? Wow. Any web references you can point me to? I'm not
about to 'test' the batteries in the grip (US$200 or so) in any case.

Cheers,
Alan

--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 12:05:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Energizer silver/blue lithium batteries are designed for digital cameras
specifically. I don't think they intended to use them in flashlights.

"pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:o yBCc.4225$_n2.69611@weber.videotron.net...
> > Dave wrote:
> > > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
> > > <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> somehow managed to impart:
> > >
> > >
> > >>David H. Lipman wrote:
> > >>
> > >>Don't top post
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
> laptops. Therefore I
> > >>>won't buy Sony.
> > >>>
> > >>>As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO
reason
> why you should not
> > >>>be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
> batteries, they just
> > >>>last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
> (better price than Radio
> > >>>Shack).
> > >>
> > >>When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
> > >>"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, but what?
> >
> > No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
> > batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
> > say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
> > possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
> > time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
> > characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
> > the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
> > lithiums without trouble at all...
> >
> >
> > --
> > --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
> >
>
> I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
> the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
> cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
>
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 1:08:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Alkaline batteries voltage drop as a function. Therefore the filament receives a lower
voltage as a function of time and burns less hot as a function of time.

Lithium batteries provide a constant voltage as a function of time until its life has been
spent then its voltage drops off rapidly to zero. Therefore the filament receives a
constant voltage as a function of time and burns hot consistently over the life span of the
battery thus reducing the life span of the bulb.

Cameras, CD players, DVD players or other electronic devices are active devices as opposed
to bulbs which are passive device which are electrical not electronic devices. Therefore
the two, cameras and flashlights, can NOT be compared equally.

Dave




"unavailable" <imaketv@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p tGCc.25196$Y3.12142@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Energizer silver/blue lithium batteries are designed for digital cameras
| specifically. I don't think they intended to use them in flashlights.
|
| "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
| news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
| >
| > "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
| > news:o yBCc.4225$_n2.69611@weber.videotron.net...
| > > Dave wrote:
| > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:54:54 -0400, Alan Browne
| > > > <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> somehow managed to impart:
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >>David H. Lipman wrote:
| > > >>
| > > >>Don't top post
| > > >>
| > > >>
| > > >>>Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
| > laptops. Therefore I
| > > >>>won't buy Sony.
| > > >>>
| > > >>>As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO
| reason
| > why you should not
| > > >>>be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
| > batteries, they just
| > > >>>last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
| > (better price than Radio
| > > >>>Shack).
| > > >>
| > > >>When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
| > > >>"AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Yes, but what?
| > >
| > > No idea. Unfortunately they don't explain why. The body 123
| > > batteries I use are lithium, but the vertical grip instructions
| > > say "thou shalt not" without explanation as to why. A
| > > possibility is that the instructions were generated at about the
| > > time lithiums came on the market, perhaps with some
| > > characteristic that the engineers at Minolta were wary of, hence
| > > the warning ... but no "why". Possibly it can be used with
| > > lithiums without trouble at all...
| > >
| > >
| > > --
| > > --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
| > >
| >
| > I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
| > the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
| > cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
| >
| >
|
|
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 1:18:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Oooops...

I meant to state... "Alkaline batteries voltage drop as a function of time."

Dave




"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:kpHCc.15216$mG4.10659@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
| Alkaline batteries voltage drop as a function. Therefore the filament receives a lower
| voltage as a function of time and burns less hot as a function of time.
|
| Lithium batteries provide a constant voltage as a function of time until its life has been
| spent then its voltage drops off rapidly to zero. Therefore the filament receives a
| constant voltage as a function of time and burns hot consistently over the life span of
the
| battery thus reducing the life span of the bulb.
|
| Cameras, CD players, DVD players or other electronic devices are active devices as opposed
| to bulbs which are passive device which are electrical not electronic devices. Therefore
| the two, cameras and flashlights, can NOT be compared equally.
|
| Dave
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 9:29:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
> the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
> cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
>
If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I
suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic
electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and
the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for
your profession.......
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 9:29:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

William Graham wrote:

> "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
> news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>
>>I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
>>the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
>>cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
>>
>
> If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I
> suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic
> electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and
> the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for
> your profession.......
>
>
WRONG!
Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
how it affects bulb life.
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 2:22:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<p%mCc.94061$eu.6020@attbi_s02>...
> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
> news:V6mCc.570$L8.413@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> > I almost *always* Top Post and will continue to do so !
> >
> > If they state it -- there has to be a reason. Please provide it.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> Any batteries will work in a camera as long as they do not exceed the
> voltage specs for the camera as put out by the manufacturer.

Most of the time probably true, even for camera instructions that
say otherwise.

But it's not absolutely true. Batteries have other important specs
other than just voltage and size. Source-resistance also is an important
one. Another important feature has to do with cameras that charge batteries
"in camera" (as my wife's new digital camera does). Bad things can happen
if the wrong kind of battery is in there. The chemistry of some batteries
may be that defective ones (or overcharged ones) will outgas some small
amount of something that could affect some cameras more than others.

And even then, it may just be statistical. Meaning the "problem" whatever
is is, may affect only 1% of users, 99% are fine. That'd only be a problem
for the mfgr who's reputation for 'bad cameras' will grow (and for the 1%
who had the problem). But that would make it worthwhile saying not to use that
kind of battery.

Batteries also can have different characteristics over the maximum
spec'd temperature range. Some batteries have limited allowable
temperature ranges.

IOW, it can be more than just voltage rating.

Mike
Anonymous
June 25, 2004 11:56:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10dnokjk7kdc62b@corp.supernews.com...
> William Graham wrote:
>
> > "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
> > news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> >
> >>I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
> >>the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
> >>cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
> >>
> >
> > If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
I
> > suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
> > electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
and
> > the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
for
> > your profession.......
> >
> >
> WRONG!
> Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
> flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
> designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
> batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
> burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
> how it affects bulb life.

I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is
what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery.
A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types
of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the
Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on
a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it
isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses
them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their
internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
device.........
Anonymous
June 26, 2004 1:08:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

http://flashlightreviews.home.att.net/articles/batterie...

I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through
a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short
order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable
batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries.
www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?p=showDoc&doc=4H_NAF_AAMM_...

Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries,
but, of course, some power would be lost to heat.

I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com)
that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from
June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the
table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They
didn't test rechargeables.

Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot

Radio Shack
Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢

Duracell
Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢

Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢

Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢

Energizer e2
Titanium $1.50 82 1.8¢

Energizer e2
Lithium $5.00 220 2.3¢
Anonymous
June 26, 2004 4:09:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

William Graham wrote:

> "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
> news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>
>>I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight,
>>the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
>>cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
>>
>
> If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I
> suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic
> electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and
> the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for
> your profession.......

A camera may also have inductive circuits such that regardless of
the battery voltage will draw more current than expected if the
battery is capable of delivering it. If the device was designed
to oversome limitations in alkaline batteries (internal
resistance), then with more current-capable batteries high
current might ensue ... and even if briefly, long enough to cause
damage.

If Minolta tell me don't use lithium in a device, I will heed
their advice. It's too expensive not to.




--
--e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
Anonymous
June 26, 2004 8:19:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

That price range is off!

Like I previously stated, I get AA Lithiums (Energizer e2) at Sears for ~$10.00 ($9.99) for
4 x AA batteries that's $2.50/battery not $5.00/battery.

Dave
|
| Energizer e2
| Lithium $5.00 220
2.3¢

"Fishface" <invalid@ddress.ok?> wrote in message news:10dr7n956gio338@corp.supernews.com...
| http://flashlightreviews.home.att.net/articles/batterie...
|
| I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through
| a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short
| order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable
| batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries.
| www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?p=showDoc&doc=4H_NAF_AAMM_...
|
| Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries,
| but, of course, some power would be lost to heat.
|
| I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com)
| that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from
| June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the
| table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They
| didn't test rechargeables.
|
| Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot
|
| Radio Shack
| Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢
|
| Duracell
| Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢
|
| Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢
|
| Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢
|
| Energizer e2
| Titanium $1.50 82
1.8¢
|
| Energizer e2
| Lithium $5.00 220
2.3¢
|
|
|
Anonymous
June 26, 2004 8:19:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:
> That price range is off!

Yes, I suspected as much. So ignore that!

Costco has the Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak for $6.99 on
the website, I'm not sure about the stores, though. Which
brand are you using?
Anonymous
June 27, 2004 2:32:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Which brand ?
Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak.

Dave



"Fishface" <invalid@ddress.ok?> wrote in message news:10drclhj2mqp06b@corp.supernews.com...
| David H. Lipman wrote:
| > That price range is off!
|
| Yes, I suspected as much. So ignore that!
|
| Costco has the Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak for $6.99 on
| the website, I'm not sure about the stores, though. Which
| brand are you using?
|
|
Anonymous
June 27, 2004 5:07:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:AchDc.66800$_n2.1470626@weber.videotron.net...
> William Graham wrote:
>
> > "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
> > news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> >
> >>I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
flashlight,
> >>the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
> >>cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
> >>
> >
> > If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
I
> > suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
basic
> > electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
and
> > the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
for
> > your profession.......
>
> A camera may also have inductive circuits such that regardless of
> the battery voltage will draw more current than expected if the
> battery is capable of delivering it. If the device was designed
> to oversome limitations in alkaline batteries (internal
> resistance), then with more current-capable batteries high
> current might ensue ... and even if briefly, long enough to cause
> damage.
>
> If Minolta tell me don't use lithium in a device, I will heed
> their advice. It's too expensive not to.
>
The only thing internal battery resistance would affect is the short circuit
current. If the battery load is reasonable, (so the batteries would last
more than a few minutes) then this internal resistance can have no
deleterious effect on the device. I suggest that the reason the manufacturer
doesn't want you to use lithium batteries is because they put out a little
more voltage per cell than alkalines, so a set of them might over voltage
the device. If you believe the specs on the device are that marginal, then
by all means, use the batteries the manufacturer recommends. As for me, the
determining factor is the batteries tendency to leak in time and destroy the
battery compartment, especially in devices such as flash units that I may
not use for a long time. This has happened to me often enough so that I
usually just remove the batteries altogether after I use the device. If I do
this with some cameras, however, the camera looses its internal memory, and
forgets what frame it's on, and other important information, so I keep it
energized with a fresh set of batteries every few months. (I usually am
using it every day or so, anyway)
Anonymous
June 28, 2004 9:49:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

It is probably (knowing Sony's battery life history) too high a current draw
on a Lithium battery and they tend to explode when overloaded.

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:o YfCc.115610$603.2060697@weber.videotron.net...
> David H. Lipman wrote:
>
> Don't top post
>
> > Good points. I found the same lack of quality support with Sony Vaio
laptops. Therefore I
> > won't buy Sony.
> >
> > As for using Lithium AA's in the camera. There is absolutely NO reason
why you should not
> > be able to use them. Electrically they are the same as any other AA
batteries, they just
> > last longer. I buy mine from Sears at ~$10.00 for 4 x AA batteries
(better price than Radio
> > Shack).
>
> When the camera manufacturer puts in a warning:
> "AA Lithium batteries cannot be used" it is there for a good reason.
>
>
>
>
> --
> --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
>
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 5:53:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:56:04 GMT, "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:10dnokjk7kdc62b@corp.supernews.com...
>> William Graham wrote:
>>
>> > "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
>> > news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>> >
>> >>I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
>flashlight,
>> >>the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
>> >>cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
>> >>
>> >
>> > If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
>I
>> > suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
>basic
>> > electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
>and
>> > the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
>for
>> > your profession.......
>> >
>> >
>> WRONG!
>> Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
>> flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
>> designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
>> batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
>> burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
>> how it affects bulb life.
>
>I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is
>what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery.




BOLLOCK BOLLOCKS go get a Brain transplant as you do need one..


All batteries have internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..





>A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
>that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
>sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
>batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types
>of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
>believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the
>Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
>nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on
>a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it
>isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
>impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
>can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses
>them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their
>internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
>device.........
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
June 29, 2004 5:53:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

No, he is right and you are mistaken.

Sorry.

Bob



On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 01:53:37 +1200, Robert Mathews
<r.math@nopost.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:56:04 GMT, "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:10dnokjk7kdc62b@corp.supernews.com...
>>> William Graham wrote:
>>>
>>> > "pjp" <pjp_is_located_at_@_hotmail_._com> wrote in message
>>> > news:KIBCc.63405$Np3.2944939@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
>>> >
>>> >>I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a
>>flashlight,
>>> >>the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be
>>> >>cautious of using them in anything that says not to.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it.
>>I
>>> > suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some
>>basic
>>> > electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less,
>>and
>>> > the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose
>>for
>>> > your profession.......
>>> >
>>> >
>>> WRONG!
>>> Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a
>>> flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the
>>> designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the
>>> batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily
>>> burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us
>>> how it affects bulb life.
>>
>>I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is
>>what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery.
>
>
>
>
>BOLLOCK BOLLOCKS go get a Brain transplant as you do need one..
>
>
>All batteries have internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
>
>
>
>
>
>>A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
>>that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
>>sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
>>batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types
>>of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
>>believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the
>>Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
>>nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on
>>a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it
>>isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
>>impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
>>can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses
>>them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their
>>internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
>>device.........
>>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 5:53:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Robert Mathews" <r.math@nopost.com> wrote in message > All batteries have
internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
>
This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a car
battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while the
starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little load
on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside the
camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then only
the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable batteries
such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I agree
completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.

> >A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
> >that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
> >sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
> >batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
types
> >of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
> >believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also,
the
> >Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
> >nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler)
on
> >a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But
it
> >isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
> >impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
> >can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one
uses
> >them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
their
> >internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
> >device.........
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
> Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 5:53:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.

Dave




"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
|
| "Robert Mathews" <r.math@nopost.com> wrote in message > All batteries have
| internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
| >
| This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
| small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a car
| battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
| loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while the
| starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little load
| on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
| manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside the
| camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then only
| the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
| Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable batteries
| such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
| they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I agree
| completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
|
| > >A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery
| > >that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second
| > >sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
| > >batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
| types
| > >of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I
| > >believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also,
| the
| > >Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
| > >nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler)
| on
| > >a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But
| it
| > >isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is
| > >impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example,
| > >can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one
| uses
| > >them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
| their
| > >internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| > >device.........
| > >
| >
| > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| --------------------------
| > Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments
| that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
|
|
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 5:53:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
Ohm's law is the one you want there son.

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:9W%Dc.13285$Xn.1114@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
> |
> | "Robert Mathews" <r.math@nopost.com> wrote in message > All batteries
have
> | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
> | >
> | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
> | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a
car
> | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
> | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while
the
> | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little
load
> | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
> | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
> | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
> | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside
the
> | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then
only
> | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
> | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
batteries
> | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
> | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
agree
> | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
> |
> | > >A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
battery
> | > >that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
second
> | > >sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
> | > >batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
> | types
> | > >of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
Lithiums, I
> | > >believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines.
Also,
> | the
> | > >Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
> | > >nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
cooler)
> | on
> | > >a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums.
But
> | it
> | > >isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
that is
> | > >impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
example,
> | > >can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when
one
> | uses
> | > >them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
> | their
> | > >internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
> | > >device.........
> | > >
> | >
> |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | --------------------------
> | > Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments
> | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
> |
> |
>
>
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 5:53:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Nope....

This is NOT an electronics News Group so I will not go into an explanation why Ohm's Law is
insufficient and Kirchoff's Law is apropos.

I will say model the circuit. Where...
- R(load) is less than R(internal resistance of battery)
- R(load) equals R(internal resistance of battery)
- R(load) is greater than R(internal resistance of battery)

Dave



"Gymmy Bob" <nospamming@bite.me> wrote in message news:Us6dnXOaFbHoD33d4p2dnA@golden.net...
| "Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
| Ohm's law is the one you want there son.
|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:9W%Dc.13285$Xn.1114@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
| > The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
| news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
| > |
| > | "Robert Mathews" <r.math@nopost.com> wrote in message > All batteries
| have
| > | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
| > | >
| > | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a very
| > | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception of a
| car
| > | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very heavily
| > | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts while
| the
| > | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so little
| load
| > | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| > | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes the
| > | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| > | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while inside
| the
| > | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger, then
| only
| > | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be used. -
| > | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
| batteries
| > | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them while
| > | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
| agree
| > | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
| > |
| > | > >A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
| battery
| > | > >that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
| second
| > | > >sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight
| > | > >batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are
| > | types
| > | > >of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
| Lithiums, I
| > | > >believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines.
| Also,
| > | the
| > | > >Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is
| > | > >nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
| cooler)
| > | on
| > | > >a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums.
| But
| > | it
| > | > >isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
| that is
| > | > >impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
| example,
| > | > >can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when
| one
| > | uses
| > | > >them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of
| > | their
| > | > >internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| > | > >device.........
| > | > >
| > | >
| > |
| > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| > | --------------------------
| > | > Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
| moments
| > | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 5:53:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Yeah OK, I will state the blatantly obvious. The sum of the currents
entering the point is equal to the sum of the currents leaving the point.

So watt?

Who cares if the resistance of the battery is greater or lesser than the
R(load)? The current is inversely proportional to the total circuit
resistance. This includes the battery and the load.
Ohm's law
part 1


"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:vK0Ec.12753$Av3.7068@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> Nope....
>
> This is NOT an electronics News Group so I will not go into an explanation
why Ohm's Law is
> insufficient and Kirchoff's Law is apropos.
>
> I will say model the circuit. Where...
> - R(load) is less than R(internal resistance of battery)
> - R(load) equals R(internal resistance of battery)
> - R(load) is greater than R(internal resistance of battery)
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> "Gymmy Bob" <nospamming@bite.me> wrote in message
news:Us6dnXOaFbHoD33d4p2dnA@golden.net...
> | "Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
> | Ohm's law is the one you want there son.
> |
> | "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
> | news:9W%Dc.13285$Xn.1114@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> | > The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
> | >
> | > Dave
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> | news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
> | > |
> | > | "Robert Mathews" <r.math@nopost.com> wrote in message > All
batteries
> | have
> | > | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
> | > | >
> | > | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a
very
> | > | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception
of a
> | car
> | > | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very
heavily
> | > | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts
while
> | the
> | > | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so
little
> | load
> | > | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
> | > | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes
the
> | > | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
> | > | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while
inside
> | the
> | > | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger,
then
> | only
> | > | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be
used. -
> | > | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
> | batteries
> | > | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them
while
> | > | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
> | agree
> | > | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
> | > |
> | > | > >A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
> | battery
> | > | > >that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
> | second
> | > | > >sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA
flashlight
> | > | > >batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there
are
> | > | types
> | > | > >of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
> | Lithiums, I
> | > | > >believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do
alkalines.
> | Also,
> | > | the
> | > | > >Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that
is
> | > | > >nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
> | cooler)
> | > | on
> | > | > >a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of
lithiums.
> | But
> | > | it
> | > | > >isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
> | that is
> | > | > >impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
> | example,
> | > | > >can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful
when
> | one
> | > | uses
> | > | > >them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not
because of
> | > | their
> | > | > >internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
> | > | > >device.........
> | > | > >
> | > | >
> | > |
> |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | > | --------------------------
> | > | > Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
> | moments
> | > | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
> | > |
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 7:51:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

You don't see the trees through the forest!

Like I said model it.

Dave




"Gymmy Bob" <nospamming@bite.me> wrote in message news:brqdnTKZtfMSeH3dRVn-gg@golden.net...
| Yeah OK, I will state the blatantly obvious. The sum of the currents
| entering the point is equal to the sum of the currents leaving the point.
|
| So watt?
|
| Who cares if the resistance of the battery is greater or lesser than the
| R(load)? The current is inversely proportional to the total circuit
| resistance. This includes the battery and the load.
| Ohm's law
| part 1
|
|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:vK0Ec.12753$Av3.7068@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
| > Nope....
| >
| > This is NOT an electronics News Group so I will not go into an explanation
| why Ohm's Law is
| > insufficient and Kirchoff's Law is apropos.
| >
| > I will say model the circuit. Where...
| > - R(load) is less than R(internal resistance of battery)
| > - R(load) equals R(internal resistance of battery)
| > - R(load) is greater than R(internal resistance of battery)
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| >
| > "Gymmy Bob" <nospamming@bite.me> wrote in message
| news:Us6dnXOaFbHoD33d4p2dnA@golden.net...
| > | "Kirchoff" has nothing to do with this one except the blatantly obvious.
| > | Ohm's law is the one you want there son.
| > |
| > | "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| > | news:9W%Dc.13285$Xn.1114@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
| > | > The *BEST* statement and conforms to Kirchoff's Laws.
| > | >
| > | > Dave
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
| > | news:Tv%Dc.123150$eu.69086@attbi_s02...
| > | > |
| > | > | "Robert Mathews" <r.math@nopost.com> wrote in message > All
| batteries
| > | have
| > | > | internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages..
| > | > | >
| > | > | This is true, but the internal resistance of the battery is only a
| very
| > | > | small percentage of the resistance of the load, with the exception
| of a
| > | car
| > | > | battery during the "start" operation, where the battery is very
| heavily
| > | > | loaded. This is why a car battery's output drops to nearly 8 volts
| while
| > | the
| > | > | starter is turning over the engine. Normally, the load puts so
| little
| > | load
| > | > | on the battery that the voltage difference is unmeasureable.
| > | > | There is one thing that I forgot to mention, however. Sometimes
| the
| > | > | manufacturer specifies a certain type battery because of charging
| > | > | considerations. Naturally, if the batteries can be charged while
| inside
| > | the
| > | > | camera or other device, and the manufacturer supplies the charger,
| then
| > | only
| > | > | the specific battery that the manufacturer recommends should be
| used. -
| > | > | Worst case sceneareo would be if one tried to use non-rechargeable
| > | batteries
| > | > | such as alkelines, and the charger would overheat and explode them
| while
| > | > | they wre inside the device, damaging that device. - In this case, I
| > | agree
| > | > | completely. - Only use the manufacturers recommended battery.
| > | > |
| > | > | > >A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck
| > | battery
| > | > | > >that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one
| > | second
| > | > | > >sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA
| flashlight
| > | > | > >batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there
| are
| > | > | types
| > | > | > >of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts.
| > | Lithiums, I
| > | > | > >believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do
| alkalines.
| > | Also,
| > | > | the
| > | > | > >Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that
| is
| > | > | > >nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns
| > | cooler)
| > | > | on
| > | > | > >a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of
| lithiums.
| > | But
| > | > | it
| > | > | > >isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage
| > | that is
| > | > | > >impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for
| > | example,
| > | > | > >can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful
| when
| > | one
| > | > | uses
| > | > | > >them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not
| because of
| > | > | their
| > | > | > >internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the
| > | > | > >device.........
| > | > | > >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > |
| > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| > | > | --------------------------
| > | > | > Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
| > | moments
| > | > | that take our breath away. (George Carlin)
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
Anonymous
June 29, 2004 2:15:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.dcameras,alt.photography,japan.photo.camera,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Bob wrote:
> No, he is right and you are mistaken.
>
> Sorry.
>
> Bob

Strangely, both of them were partly correct.
The current draw is related to the resistance of the bulb filament, also
the available current and voltage is related to the internal resistance
of the battery.
As a battery is used up, the internal resistance goes up and the
available current goes down. As this happens, the filament is still
drawing the same power from the battery and because the battery voltage
can't go up, the bulb goes dim.
!