Hot plugin ide harddisk

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,han.comp.periphs.storage (More info?)

Hi all,

does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply voltage for an IDE
harddisk while the PC is already powered up? (the data cable would be
connected all the time).
Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?

I have a Sata Raid 0 array running in my computer. I'm thinking of adding an
additional IDE harddisk for backing up the raid array (partly and in monthly
or weekly cycles).
Of course raid 0 is running a whole disk for online backup, but this doesn't
give full security.
e.g. If a Virus might delete some data, it will delete data also from the
online backup disk...
Also a power drop or a G-shock might damage both harddisk at the same
time...

I'm planning to have the IDE harddisk connected to the data cable all the
time, but switch on the voltage supply for the harddisk.
After the hd is powered up a reset might boot up a small backup system
(maybe some mini linux, e.g. knoppix) to create the backup.

Any ideas or suggestions ?

Thanks Thorsten

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,han.comp.periphs.storage (More info?)

"Thorsten Walenzyk" wrote
> does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply voltage for an
IDE
> harddisk while the PC is already powered up? (the data cable would be
> connected all the time).
> Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?



Hi,

I think an easy set-up for you would be to buy a single 2.5" IDE drive, like
what they use in a laptop and install it in a portable USB2.0 caddie.

You could plug'n'play it into Windows2000 or WindowsXP and it gets its power
from the USB bus!

You can also by these pre-built by a few different companies.
--
Wayne ][
<Intel® Pentium® 4 - Online! >

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,han.comp.periphs.storage (More info?)

Thorsten Walenzyk wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply voltage for an
> IDE harddisk while the PC is already powered up? (the data cable would be
> connected all the time).
> Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?
>
> I have a Sata Raid 0 array running in my computer. I'm thinking of adding
> an additional IDE harddisk for backing up the raid array (partly and in
> monthly or weekly cycles).
> Of course raid 0 is running a whole disk for online backup, but this
> doesn't give full security.
> e.g. If a Virus might delete some data, it will delete data also from the
> online backup disk...
> Also a power drop or a G-shock might damage both harddisk at the same
> time...
>
> I'm planning to have the IDE harddisk connected to the data cable all the
> time, but switch on the voltage supply for the harddisk.
> After the hd is powered up a reset might boot up a small backup system
> (maybe some mini linux, e.g. knoppix) to create the backup.
>
> Any ideas or suggestions ?

Test thoroughly. While it doesn't always happen, having a drive connected
to the IDE bus with no power can cause data corruption on other drives in
the same machine. Got bitten by that one a while back.




> Thanks Thorsten

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage J. Clarke <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Thorsten Walenzyk wrote:

>> Hi all,
>>
>> does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply voltage for an
>> IDE harddisk while the PC is already powered up? (the data cable would be
>> connected all the time).
>> Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?

In theory the interface specification does not support this and
controller as well as hdd can be damaged/killed because of
short-circuit. In practice today most/all circuits used for digital
interfaces on TTL-level (5 Volt) or below are permanently
short-circuit proof. (RS232/422 drivers have allways been
short-circuit proof.)

>> I have a Sata Raid 0 array running in my computer. I'm thinking of adding
>> an additional IDE harddisk for backing up the raid array (partly and in
>> monthly or weekly cycles).
>> Of course raid 0 is running a whole disk for online backup, but this
>> doesn't give full security.
>> e.g. If a Virus might delete some data, it will delete data also from the
>> online backup disk...
>> Also a power drop or a G-shock might damage both harddisk at the same
>> time...
>>
>> I'm planning to have the IDE harddisk connected to the data cable all the
>> time, but switch on the voltage supply for the harddisk.
>> After the hd is powered up a reset might boot up a small backup system
>> (maybe some mini linux, e.g. knoppix) to create the backup.
>>
>> Any ideas or suggestions ?

> Test thoroughly. While it doesn't always happen, having a drive connected
> to the IDE bus with no power can cause data corruption on other drives in
> the same machine. Got bitten by that one a while back.

Yes, that would be the second problem. And this is a serious one. Why
not use the SATA drive for your backup, since its interface is
designed for what you want to do?

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage (More info?)

In practice this never happens, does it?

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:c578pq$2p3aja$2@ID-2964.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>
> >> does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply voltage for an
> >> IDE harddisk while the PC is already powered up? (the data cable would be
> >> connected all the time).
> >> Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?
>
> In theory the interface specification does not support this and
> controller as well as hdd can be damaged/killed because of
> short-circuit. In practice today most/all circuits used for digital
> interfaces on TTL-level (5 Volt) or below are permanently
> short-circuit proof. (RS232/422 drivers have allways been
> short-circuit proof.)
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,han.comp.periphs.storage (More info?)

Thorsten Walenzyk <thorsten.walenzyk@gmx.de> wrote
in message news:c5643l$svm$00$1@news.t-online.com...

> does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply
> voltage for an IDE harddisk while the PC is already powered
> up? (the data cable would be connected all the time).

Yes, its possible, some removable drive bay systems do that.

> Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?

Yes, it can.

> I have a Sata Raid 0 array running in my computer. I'm
> thinking of adding an additional IDE harddisk for backing
> up the raid array (partly and in monthly or weekly cycles).

Better to use a firewire or USB2 drive. Those allow hot plugging.

> Of course raid 0 is running a whole disk for
> online backup, but this doesn't give full security.

In fact it significantly reduces your security because failure
of one of the drives will loose all the data on the array.

Its Raid 1 that gives additional security.

> e.g. If a Virus might delete some data, it will
> delete data also from the online backup disk...

> Also a power drop or a G-shock might
> damage both harddisk at the same time...

Its more likely to be a power supply failure that kills both.

> I'm planning to have the IDE harddisk connected to the data cable
> all the time, but switch on the voltage supply for the harddisk.

> After the hd is powered up a reset might boot up a small backup
> system (maybe some mini linux, e.g. knoppix) to create the backup.

> Any ideas or suggestions ?

Use a firewire or USB2 drive instead. You can put
the drive you plan to use in one of those enclosures
and hotswap is part of the standard with those.

And its mechanically more convenient too if you want
to put the backup drive out of sight when out of the
house so say a burglar cant steal everything.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,han.comp.periphs.storage (More info?)

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c56r2e$2otaqb$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Thorsten Walenzyk <thorsten.walenzyk@gmx.de> wrote
> in message news:c5643l$svm$00$1@news.t-online.com...
>
> > does somebody know, if it's possible to switch on supply
> > voltage for an IDE harddisk while the PC is already powered
> > up? (the data cable would be connected all the time).
>
> Yes, its possible, some removable drive bay systems do that.
>
> > Can this do any harm to controller on board or harddrive?
>
> Yes, it can.
>
> > I have a Sata Raid 0 array running in my computer. I'm
> > thinking of adding an additional IDE harddisk for backing
> > up the raid array (partly and in monthly or weekly cycles).
>
> Better to use a firewire or USB2 drive. Those allow hot plugging.

SATA will allow it also.

> > Of course raid 0 is running a whole disk for
> > online backup, but this doesn't give full security.
>
> In fact it significantly reduces your security because failure
> of one of the drives will loose all the data on the array.
>
> Its Raid 1 that gives additional security.
>
> > e.g. If a Virus might delete some data, it will
> > delete data also from the online backup disk...
>
> > Also a power drop or a G-shock might
> > damage both harddisk at the same time...
>
> Its more likely to be a power supply failure that kills both.
>
> > I'm planning to have the IDE harddisk connected to the data cable
> > all the time, but switch on the voltage supply for the harddisk.
>
> > After the hd is powered up a reset might boot up a small backup
> > system (maybe some mini linux, e.g. knoppix) to create the backup.
>
> > Any ideas or suggestions ?
>
> Use a firewire or USB2 drive instead. You can put
> the drive you plan to use in one of those enclosures
> and hotswap is part of the standard with those.

Then the drive may be stored at a physically different location which vastly
decreases the probability of loss of data. Such is also convenient using an
SATA drive in a removeable tray.

> And its mechanically more convenient too if you want
> to put the backup drive out of sight when out of the
> house so say a burglar cant steal everything.